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ANY thermal details in M2ED photo??
1420 24 2019-2-24
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DrMrdalj
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Dear DJI people,
Please respond directly and finaly - is there ANY way to read ANY thermal details from M2ED JPEG?

As far as I learned by testing all possibe settings, all scene options apply AGC and constantly changing automatic contrast so pallete is mapped to momentary minimum and maximum. These numbers are not present in the file of EXIF or defined in any way - so we end up with fancy looking picture without knowing even scale of the thermals. Without fixed/linear scene pallete and/or without any thermal metadata it seems that there  is no way to read ANYTHING from JPEG photo. Even minimum and maximum are unknown from the photo!

It happens that iPhone screenshot containts more information then JPEG itself (as I can set min/max/spot temp display in the app).
What is the point "thermal camera" which can not record any thermal info in any file???
If this is realy the case I would feel more then disapointed - I would feel that we are scamed .

So, I kinly ask you to teach us how to obtain ANY thermal information from the photos.
Otherwise I kindly ask for public promise for firmware which will correct such huge missleading of loyal customers.
2019-2-24
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DrMrdalj
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I would not write in detail many huge  shortcomings of M2ED in comparison to cheapest FLIR Duo (retails for less then $900) - so please ead FLIR Duo user manual to learn what simplest basic thermal camera should do.
https://www.flir.com/globalassets/imported-assets/document/flir-duo-user-guide.pdf

2019-2-24
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DrMrdalj
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Is there option to read minimum and maximum temperature from the JPEG file?
2019-2-25
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Keule
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DrMrdalj Posted at 2-25 01:07
Is there option to read minimum and maximum temperature from the JPEG file?

No, DJI has not implemented this kind of useful feature.
You can however, but it's a cumbersome method, use Matlab to do the calculations.
2019-2-25
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DrMrdalj
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Keule Posted at 2-25 01:17
No, DJI has not implemented this kind of useful feature.
You can however, but it's a cumbersome method, use Matlab to do the calculations.

Unfortunately that is not possible - to use Matlab I would need to know minimum and maximum temperature of particular photo, and I would need to have linear pallete. Currently there is no option to read minimum and maximum from the photo and there is no linear pallete, so there is no way to make any kind of basic thermal reading... I find myslef scamed as there is no any thermal data that can be recorded in any way! Do you know for any procedure how I could read at least minimum and maximum reading from the M2ED photo?
2019-2-25
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TMH71
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I think the camera is able to do this, but in the moment there is only a jpg coming out of the M2E, its up to dji to change this. On the FLIR website nearly every camera is able to capture jpg r images. Ok the resolution is 160x120 and not that big but the Plug in FLIR camera for the iPhone for example has the resolution 160x120 and is able to capture radiometric jpg.
2019-2-25
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Keule
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DrMrdalj Posted at 2-25 01:29
Unfortunately that is not possible - to use Matlab I would need to know minimum and maximum temperature of particular photo, and I would need to have linear pallete. Currently there is no option to read minimum and maximum from the photo and there is no linear pallete, so there is no way to make any kind of basic thermal reading... I find myslef scamed as there is no any thermal data that can be recorded in any way! Do you know for any procedure how I could read at least minimum and maximum reading from the M2ED photo?

I know what you mean - I can not think of an acceptable solution.
So, as i understand, in it's current state, the M2ED is good for nothing except producing colorful images, unless DJI releases a firmware with really basic requirements for thermal inspections and reports.
2019-2-25
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DrMrdalj
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TMH71 Posted at 2-25 01:54
I think the camera is able to do this, but in the moment there is only a jpg coming out of the M2E, its up to dji to change this. On the FLIR website nearly every camera is able to capture jpg r images. Ok the resolution is 160x120 and not that big but the Plug in FLIR camera for the iPhone for example has the resolution 160x120 and is able to capture radiometric jpg.

Who cares if camera is capable when DJI did not hold this important option in the firmware.. I am sure that FLIR Duo is exactly the same camera as M2ED. Even simplest FLIR Duo has all necessary info in the recording. So, yes, it is technically possible and it is expected, and above all it is advertised all over the internet - still it doesn't work at all in actual DJI product.
2019-2-25
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DrMrdalj
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PS
Small resolution of 160x120 is acceptable for many use cases if camera can record any thermal info into the file,
2019-2-25
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DrMrdalj
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DrMrdalj Posted at 2-25 02:06
PS
Small resolution of 160x120 is acceptable for many use cases if camera can record any thermal info into the file,

Still no any comments from DJI moderator? No ideas how to get ANY thermal info from ANY recording?
2019-2-26
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DrMrdalj
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Still no any comments from DJI moderator? No ideas how to get ANY thermal info from ANY recording?
2019-2-26
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Wolf T
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Crickets.

Bueller...  Bueller...
2019-2-26
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SimonID
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I actually understand the decission not to make these features available as it would more or less make the XT2 unsellable except for those who really need the higher resolution.
Still it is hard to understand why the marketing tries to sell to exactly those customers who should go with the XT2/M210 by claiming high resolution (640*480) and not mentioning the lack of post-flight analysis possibilities. I have a numer of business contacts who could really use an XT2 but now think the M2ED would be perfect as it does everything. Hard to stop them from making a mistake without talking bad about DJI...
2019-2-27
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DrMrdalj
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SimonID Posted at 2-27 08:11
I actually understand the decission not to make these features available as it would more or less make the XT2 unsellable except for those who really need the higher resolution.
Still it is hard to understand why the marketing tries to sell to exactly those customers who should go with the XT2/M210 by claiming high resolution (640*480) and not mentioning the lack of post-flight analysis possibilities. I have a numer of business contacts who could really use an XT2 but now think the M2ED would be perfect as it does everything. Hard to stop them from making a mistake without talking bad about DJI...

Beside its resolution and lenses XT2 has great integration with the aircrat and plenty of radiometric options to make its readings reliable and actionable. So, M2ED cant compare in inspection or survailance tasks.
Still, there are tasks  (firefighting, irrigation etc) which don't need precise data while still need some photo to document reading. Unfortunately, whan looking at  thermal photo from M2ED you can't guess even average temperature or was it in low or high gain - from the photo you don't have a clue even about general temperature readings in the picture so you can't use M2ED for any kiind of thermal documentation. What's the point of any recording if you cant record what was sensor reading?
I have to use screen recorder on iPad to record in-app temperature readings and I have to make screenshots for documentation.
2019-3-7
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Blade slap
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We made some elaboration using Dual image
2019-3-8
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DrMrdalj
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Blade slap Posted at 3-8 07:49
We made some elaboration using Dual image[view_image][view_image]

How did you get Tmax and Tmin data?Is there any way to read Tmax and Tmin from the photo?
What tools did you use to make this analysis?
I kindly thank you for the answers.
2019-3-10
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Blade slap
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Using real measure in some point you can elaborate temp for all image pixel . Clearly still is low cost and low resolution camera . But something is possible and if dji want can make it and give availability in their app
2019-3-10
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DrMrdalj
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Blade slap Posted at 3-10 06:12
Using real measure in some point you can elaborate temp for all image pixel . Clearly still is low cost and low resolution camera . But something is possible and if dji want can make it and give availability in their app
I see...Having in mind that Pilot App can display Tmax and Tmin (based on several radiometric assumptions) I find most efficinet to use screenshots and screen recorders for capturing Pilot App... Due to autogain and constantly changing palette, it seems to me that one would need several calibration points in each picture for manual calibration, what seems unfeasible in aerial imaging of roofs and other tall structures... Next, note that firefighters and police officers don’t have time to waste for such procedures - all what they would need is plain Tmax and Tmin data in EXIF or sidecar file, so one could interpret their recordings with some basic certainty  for insurance and similar purposes.
2019-3-10
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DRAGenDROP
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Blade slap Posted at 3-8 07:49
We made some elaboration using Dual image[view_image][view_image]

can you gif any info, where you did this and what software and so on?
2019-3-10
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Blade slap
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DRAGenDROP Posted at 3-10 08:37
can you gif any info, where you did this and what software and so on?

With Excel elaborating raw data
2019-3-14
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TMH71
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Dear DJI People , you can find a lot of questions about the jpg-r, why you don’t answer? , It’s so easy to say „yes“ or „no“.
2019-3-16
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DrMrdalj
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TMH71 Posted at 3-16 00:07
Dear DJI People , you can find a lot of questions about the jpg-r, why you don’t answer? , It’s so easy to say „yes“ or „no“.

Please note thst M2E DUAL doesn't capute JPG-R, but plain JPG - there's no any radiometeic data in the file.
2019-4-24
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DBOSKO
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DJI you advertised this as a radiometric camera. FLIR advertises the sensor as radiometric. So I bought this thing, took my first flight, and now I am finding out that it does not give me access to the radiometric images!?!?!?!?!

You and FLIR both said this is radiometric and it is on your website right now. How do I get the radiometric image, please?  
2019-8-14
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DBOSKO Posted at 8-14 20:18
DJI you advertised this as a radiometric camera. FLIR advertises the sensor as radiometric. So I bought this thing, took my first flight, and now I am finding out that it does not give me access to the radiometric images!?!?!?!?!

You and FLIR both said this is radiometric and it is on your website right now. How do I get the radiometric image, please?

https://hannastores.com/flir-duo ... 2a388e0b50001e3ed13
"Thanks to FLIR Duo, you can now make your drones have a thermal imager too. This is a compact and lightweight design for the modern drones. The FLIR Duo has the natural shape of most action cameras. You will get used to features like onboard recording and real-time remote control of camera functions over PWM. In addition, you will also get to experience MSX multi-spectral imaging enhancement. There is a fully radiometric variant for delivering accurate temperature measurements in every pixel. You can capture digital video files and still images with this thermal imager. The device also allows you to remote control up to two camera functions. Together with the easy setup and installation features, this imager works as a perfect accessory for your drones. Dual-sensor imaging now comes in a compact package."



The FPS is pretty crazy.. I'm not sure if you can see temperature readings though.

They could've just made this on the Phantom body than on the M2ED.


Probably has something to do with marketing.  Might as well go all the way to $20k+ with the XT2 and 210 v2.

I assume the Phantom bodied FLIR would make people choose that over the M2ED, other FLIR products, and obviously have no need for the Matrice.
2019-9-25
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DrMrdalj Posted at 4-24 17:53
Please note thst M2E DUAL doesn't capute JPG-R, but plain JPG - there's no any radiometeic data in the file.

I share the frustration with missing features in M2ED.  However, the capabilities for first responders (which most marketing seems to chase), is quick S&R, quick fire size-up, and such.  Since the M2ED is not "weather-proof" some of the use-cases are limited because you would not want to fly it in fog or any sort of rain or snow.  This also limits usefulness of the device.

All being said, for quickly getting something up and providing visual data back, it has it's uses as a first-line device, until folks with M210 or other larger systems with better cameras and capabilities can show up.  Think of this as using a smartphone camera to capture basic data, then pulling out the digital SLR and long lenses to get a much more accurate picture.

DJI -- if you follow ANY of these discussion boards, you really MUST do a better job at responding to these sorts of basic inquiries and needs.  The silence is deafening in many cases, and the "check on it and get back to you" or "in a future release" responses are useless without dates.
2019-10-24
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