My beloved Mavik 2 is now under 10 feet of water in St Petersburg FL, and I’m laying the blame squarely on the last firmware update. I religiously update my drones as the new firmware comes out, and after the latest was installed, I noticed that it had installed a data base of airports and you can’t even start the motors if you are determined to be in a zone. A bit much but it is what it is. So I take my drone on a trip to St. Petersburg FL and try to fly it from a location I have filmed the past 3 years. Apparently St. Petersburg has a general aviation airport to the south of the city and I was within the 5 mile radius, so I couldn’t start the motors.  No matter that I wasn’t going to fly over 50 feet and I was probably 4.95 miles from the airport. So I packed up and moved another half mile or so up the road where I could launch the drone over a scenic canal area.  I sent the drone out at about 20 feet altitude and after it had gone maybe 50 feet from the launch point, I got a message that the drone was in an airport area and was going to land immediately. Not return to home, land immediately. I frantically pushed on the red x to try and cancel the immediate landing but between the bright sun on my screen and my panic, I didn’t see the other menu that appears on the screen to confirm cancel. From am altitude of 20 feet, there wasn’t much time to troubleshoot. I watched in dispair as it settled into the water. So my question: is this feature common knowledge? Why would it land immediately rather than return to home?  And my comment is:don’t do the latest firmware update, but if you do, BEWARE this feature.  I understand the problems that have occurred with drones but the answer is common sense, follow the rules rather than increasingly stringent limitations on equipment and flight areas.

My opinion drone should not have landed immeidately.  Instead drone should have sensed GPS Virtual Fence, and stopped moving towards Virtual Fence.  

If for some reason Pilot does not fly drone away from GPS Virtual Fence, then drone should reverse its course or execute a RTH.

follow the rules rather than increasingly stringent limitations on equipment and flight areas.

Couldn't agree more.  Unfortunately there are some that believe we need more oversight, rules, and policing.   As if those who break existing laws, will suddenly start obeying new laws.

Whilst I personally wouldnt recommend it, NLD are currently working on the M2. Once out  it will free your drone from any limitations, including height restrictions and NFZ's. It should be available soon and costs around $40.

The above is not for me. NFZ's are there for a reason but I agree, they should not be implemented in a way that may include loosing a drone. That is a step to far.

Hi,

Sorry for your loss.

If you like post your flight;log on here, using > https://www.phantomhelp.com/LogViewer/Upload/

Mayby the flightlog will explain more.

cheers
JJB

It does mention in your safety manual.

The NFZ’s are there it looks like the penalty was severe for you, but they are mapped in dji go 4 .

The cancel button has been a problem for some in the past with not seeing it because they were concentrating on the X.

There have been no extra rules throughout Europe there have been some changes and further changes to come, extra policing is there to help the public/property etc, it has no effect whatsoever on those who fly within the rules, it may have the effect of bringing others within the rules which is a good thing.

I do think dji should clearly post what may happen in what NFZ GEO ZONES, I think if you asked 10 members here what happens when you fly into those zones, you would get 10 different answers , and that is why I posted above from safety manual, and this is a serious underestimation on dji’s part.

The OP wrote "I got a message that the drone was in an airport area and was going to land immediately. Not return to home, land immediately"

I assume that the take-off point was outside a NFZ or any other resticted zone, so take-off was allowed by the software.
If the OP did fly into a NFZ i would expect a warning, plus action (software) such that it would not allow the drone to fly any further into a restricted zone.
(same as a max distance limit set in the Go app). Is that logic or not ?

So why a landing immediately ? Hope that DJI can explain this, in my eyes, incorrect action.

Agree with hallmark ; i am one of the people who doesn`t know what happend if a enter a NFZ. (beacuse before hand i check my area where i am allowed to fly).

PS curious what is in the flightlog....

cheers
JJB

JJB* Posted at 2-26 03:51
The OP wrote "I got a message that the drone was in an airport area and was going to land immediately. Not return to home, land immediately"

I assume that the take-off point was outside a NFZ or any other resticted zone, so take-off was allowed by the software.

The OP got a warning giving him the option to cancel landing and fly out of NFZ, but what happened when he pressed X it asked him did he want to cancel landing, but he hadn’t seen this message until it was to late, if you don’t react to warning you are entering NFZ then landing will be forced, but option to cancel landing and fly out of NFZ is there .

I think an action like RTH could prove disastrous in this situation if it’s class A airspace with low flying manned aircraft RTH set at 120 metres, the collision is possible, so yes land is correct, maybe it could be programmed to return at present altitude but that also could be 120 metres so chance of collision so again landing is correct option.

ya its completely the wrong way to handle this DJI.   needs to be a happy middle ground for error, nothing is perfect, specially not your software, DJI which is super buggy and can be horribly inaccurate.   

a much better solution vs  Auto-landing over water or something potential fatal for the drone would be to trigger Hovering failsafe until the user acknowledges an action to take in App  like "Land Now" and "Return"  and have it return back using memory of the flight in to retrace its path.

HereForTheBeer Posted at 2-26 06:04
ya its completely the wrong way to handle this DJI.   needs to be a happy middle ground for error, nothing is perfect, specially not your software, DJI which is super buggy and can be horribly inaccurate.   

a much better solution vs  Auto-landing over water or something potential fatal for the drone would be to trigger Hovering failsafe until the user acknowledges an action to take in App  like "Land Now" and "Return"  and have it return back using memory of the flight in to retrace its path.

If your hovering at 120 metres in an NFZ then you are in danger of collision with low flying manned aircraft choosing rth of flying home may also chaise collision, so the safest option is to land, anything flying in a NFZ is a risk to others.

hallmark007 Posted at 2-26 06:10
If your hovering at 120 metres in an NFZ then you are in danger of collision with low flying manned aircraft choosing rth of flying home may also chaise collision, so the safest option is to land, anything flying in a NFZ is a risk to others.

You also need to remember all class A (edit class C  CTR ) airspace is prohibited from ground to whatever height set by countries avaition authorities.

hallmark007 Posted at 2-26 06:10
If your hovering at 120 metres in an NFZ then you are in danger of collision with low flying manned aircraft choosing rth of flying home may also chaise collision, so the safest option is to land, anything flying in a NFZ is a risk to others.

but needs to be a better middleground vs putting your drone in the drink or to its death because the software didn't stop up from flying into NFZ only realized after the fact

HereForTheBeer Posted at 2-26 06:15
but needs to be a better middleground vs putting your drone in the drink or to its death because the software didn't stop up from flying into NFZ only realized after the fact

There’s is no possible way of knowing if your drone is over water, so water should be responsibility of the controller of the craft, while I haven’t seen his logs and maybe he will put them up it might help.

But for all of us before entering NFZ you get a warning that you are close or entering an NFZ , if you choose to continue to ignore the warning and enter the NFZ, then everything should be done to protect manned aircraft in that NFZ, allowing drone to initiate RTH or controller to fly around in NFZ will always put manned aircraft at risk, landing is the option that will cause the least amount of risk, so yes I believe this is andshould be the correct action , RTH or retracing or reverse will mean continuing to fly in NFZ.

If you are going to take the risk of flirting with what is manned airspace then you should know and accept responsibility of what might occur.

My problem with dji is this, it is not clear in their NFZ GEO literature what will happen how it can be avoided, what possible control you might have and how to approach this.
I knew what would happen because it’s in the safety manual , but not everybody reads this.

Incidentally I believe you can control were craft will land , but in OPs case he was flying to low over water so not enough time , I also think you can cancel landing but he wasn’t aware of how this was done.

hallmark007 Posted at 2-26 05:54
The OP got a warning giving him the option to cancel landing and fly out of NFZ, but what happened when he pressed X it asked him did he want to cancel landing, but he hadn’t seen this message until it was to late, if you don’t react to warning you are entering NFZ then landing will be forced, but option to cancel landing and fly out of NFZ is there .

I think an action like RTH could prove disastrous in this situation if it’s class A airspace with low flying manned aircraft RTH set at 120 metres, the collision is possible, so yes land is correct, maybe it could be programmed to return at present altitude but that also could be 120 metres so chance of collision so again landing is correct option.

Yes, but my point ist that the drone should not be allowed to fly into a NFZ the first place.
The OP got a message that he drone was in an airport area and was going to land immediately!

No need for an RTH option when in a NFZ, drone should not be able to fly into such a zone.
Hover mayby yes, when reaching the NFZ boundary, but not enter.

So IMO DJI should change this, if this is what happend. Without log its always guessing....
cheers
JJB

JJB* Posted at 2-26 07:08
Yes, but my point ist that the drone should not be allowed to fly into a NFZ the first place.
The OP got a message that he drone was in an airport area and was going to land immediately!

Yes that may well be the case and before we had a geo fence that if you hit your craft just landed, simply because that’s the way it was set up, but it would still initiate landing if over water or not.

Look my belief in this is quite simple, if you get a warning that you are about to enter NFZ and you continue, you and you alone are responsible for what happens in that NFZ for both property manned aircraft and your own aircraft , and pleading ignorance is not a defense in this situation.

I don’t think hover is feasible, simply because hovering at120 metres in a NFZ will be a risk of collision.

I think if you decide what is the safest option , not the  option for drone or manned aircraft that MIGHT save a collision but the safest option and this situation it is to land the drone, i for one believe we should always take the safest option.

I feel somewhat sorry for the OP that he just happened to be flying low over water so no chance to recover, if he was flying over ground we would never have know of his situation.

On the other hand you have said yourself you check NFZ and decide to give it a wide birth, and why ? Because it may mean trouble for you so you decide to be responsible and take the necessary steps to avoid problems.

For those who choose to take the risk, should they also be responsible ? I believe they should. However having said that I believe dji also has a responsibility to its users to explain in a manner that all are aware that the information is available and easily explained with regards to flying in or around NFZ , so they have some culpability here, maybe not in law but morally.

Dirty Bird Posted at 2-26 07:18
Two years ago, when the P4 was released, I reported this issue both here in the forum & directly to Brandon Schulman of DJI via email.  The decision to force the drone into an auto landing upon encountering an NFZ boundary is disturbing and frankly dangerous. What if the bird lands in a busy street or a crowd of people?  Even the old Phantom 2 was smart enough to simply stop at an NFZ boundary & all the pilot to withdraw.  A forced auto landing is foolish &, aside from lost birds, will end up getting someone injured.  Troubling that two years later this issue has not been corrected.

I think it has changed, to a warning you are entering NFZ followed by forced landing, with option to halt this landing or steer to safe landing.
I remember that two years ago and at that time the craft was just forced landed with no option to steer cancel etc.
I think the warning should be before you approach to let you know landing will be initiated if you continue and dji should clearly spell out what will happen if you approach or enter NFZ and all of the options you have at your control.
NFZ GEO is there, but if you asked 10 people what will occur you will get 10 different answers, so more and correct information is badly needed.

hallmark007 Posted at 2-26 07:33
Yes that may well be the case and before we had a geo fence that if you hit your craft just landed, simply because that’s the way it was set up, but it would still initiate landing if over water or not.

Look my belief in this is quite simple, if you get a warning that you are about to enter NFZ and you continue, you and you alone are responsible for what happens in that NFZ for both property manned aircraft and your own aircraft , and pleading ignorance is not a defense in this situation.

"Look my belief in this is quite simple, if you get a warning that you are about to enter NFZ and you continue, you and you alone are responsible for what happens in that NFZ for both property manned aircraft and your own aircraft , and pleading ignorance is not a defense in this situation" Fully agree on this

"I don’t think hover is feasible, simply because hovering at120 metres in a NFZ will be a risk of collision." yes, hover outside because drone is not allowed to fly into geo zone.hover outside at 120 is OK and OP is responsible for hovering there.

For those who choose to take the risk, should they also be responsible ? I believe they should. Agree

However having said that I believe dji also has a responsibility to its users to explain in a manner that all are aware that the information is available and easily explained with regards to flying in or around NFZ , so they have some culpability here, maybe not in law but morally. Yes, it the manual i read to many the verb MAY do this or MAY do that. Uh, your are inside or outside a zone, so action is black/white too!

Hope that DJI will take some action.

cheers
JJB

I’ll be flying in St Petersburg two weeks from now. Post more info on your location. I’ll check it out

Excuse me, it is not possible to block in any way the forced landing?

EnricoBrun Posted at 2-26 09:17
Excuse me, it is not possible to block in any way the forced landing?

You can cancel it not to sure what happens after that, but you can always steer a forced landing, it just seems like a disaster in this case because it was low over water, but I’m sure 99% of the time your craft will land and you just go pick it up and all will be fine .

The new CAPTCHA crap is the last straw.
Im tired of DJIs crap and am removing my posts and will be on my way.

Brett Brandon Posted at 2-26 09:51
I'm confused on this. The floor of Class A airspace is 18,000 feet msl and covers the entire United States. Class B and C have tiers that extend out farther at higher levels and you can fly underneath the extended tiers. Class D has no tiers just a vertical boundary.

Apologies I actually meant to put class C as in controlled which is in my country and throughout Europe surface to 7500 . I will edit .

The new CAPTCHA crap is the last straw.
Im tired of DJIs crap and am removing my posts and will be on my way.

Absolute rubbish that drone having taken off without problems encounters a NFZ zone and having it return via its previous path is now a risk to aircraft.  That would mean on outbound leg the drone was a risk to aircraft.  

All for safety but DJI programming drone to due a forced landing because drone got to close to NFZ GEO Virtual Fence was nothing but bad / lazy choice on DJI's part.   

At very least, battery life permitting, at forced landing point - a several minute delay in hover to give Pilot a chance to figure out safest & best action to take.  Further, prior to drone having reached DJI's chosen Forced Landing point; drone / GO-4 should have started warning pilot and slowed drone down to a snails crawl as it got closer to Forced Landing Point.  Further alerting Pilot to change / reverse course.

JJB* Posted at 2-26 08:30
"Look my belief in this is quite simple, if you get a warning that you are about to enter NFZ and you continue, you and you alone are responsible for what happens in that NFZ for both property manned aircraft and your own aircraft , and pleading ignorance is not a defense in this situation" Fully agree on this

"I don’t think hover is feasible, simply because hovering at120 metres in a NFZ will be a risk of collision." yes, hover outside because drone is not allowed to fly into geo zone.hover outside at 120 is OK and OP is responsible for hovering there.

I agree with you, JJB, on there is to many "may".   DJI's manuals leave to many things open to interpretation or SWAG.  As bad as, asking DJI for clarification results in big nothing burger served with side of crickets chirping.

Dirty Bird Posted at 2-26 14:04
I feel DJI has overcomplicated things while missing the most basic.  4 years ago the Phantom 2 Vision+ employed a very simple NFZ system.  Within a certain radius of major airports there was a cone of decreasing flight altitude as one headed closer to the airport.  Eventually one reached a virtual wall past which the drone would not fly.  As you get closer the drone is forced lower, & once you hit the virtual wall it just stops further egress.  I still have my Visiin+ on the original 3.00 firmware & the old restrictions still work to this day.

Granted the current system allows fancier zone shapes & more precise zone boundaries, but why not just stop at a boundary & allow the pilot to fly away?  I don't understand the "force it to land" logic?  Why not just stop the bird from progressing past the virtual wall?

I don’t know if it was under old NFZ , and so this is what was the cause of OPs craft landing, it sounds and looks very similar to that NFZ system.

With dji no longer using airmaps for NFZ mapping, the system is being changed and rolled out In different locations around the world, the new GEO system now being mapped by precision hawk shows clearly on the dji website aircraft bouncing off geo fence at major airports , so not allowed cross the geo boundaries.
So I’m assuming those flying under the new system with the correct aircraft , that reaching or trying to encroach the boundary will stop craft in its tracks and will continue to block it if it tries to cross the boundary.
As far as I know it is or has been rolled out in the US, we just got notice today that it has been rolled out in UK and Ireland, so maybe this case above is part of the old system from what I gather, which as you mentioned was just force land the aircraft.

Some FAQ regarding new precision hawk and dji GEO system.

What is the GEO information system:
DJI's Geospatial Environment Online (GEO) is a best-in-class geospatial information system providing DJI users with up-to-date guidance on areas where flight may be limited due to safety concerns or regulations. It combines the latest airspace information, a warning and flight-restriction system, a self-authorizing unlocking mechanism for specific locations, and a minimally-invasive accountability system for those decisions. This system is often referred to as “geofencing” and replaces DJI’s first-generation No Fly Zone system implemented in 2013.

What’s new in GEO 2.0?
The latest airport GEO Zones reference the Obstacle Limitation Surfaces section of the ICAO ANNEX 14, an international regulatory standard for airports. Airports are classified according to three risk categories: high, medium, and low. In other restricted locations, our new polygon-shaped GEO Zones are used to make flight restrictions more precise. Compared to previous versions, the latest Restricted Zones are less prohibitive and more logically designed, providing larger areas for users to enjoy safe flying.

Which DJI aircraft use GEO 2.0?
The GEO 2.0 System works with the DJI Spark and Inspire 2, as well as the collective product series for the Phantom 4, M200, and Mavic. Some older DJI products use the original GEO System including the M100 and the collective product series for the Phantom 3, Inspire 1, and M600.

How will live updates work?
The latest information on temporary flight restrictions in the location of a planned flight will be sent to users via the DJI GO app.

What are Enhanced Warning Zones?
Enhanced Warning Zones exist to alert drone operators of potential concerns that are not primarily safety-related, for example, wildlife protection areas. When a drone approaches an Enhanced Warning Zone, the DJI GO app will issue a warning. Users must then confirm that they wish to continue flying.

Is DJI required to inform users about aviation laws and regulations?
No. The GEO system is advisory only. Each operator is responsible for checking official sources and determining what laws or regulations apply to his or her flight. It should be noted, however, that DJI will continue to work collaboratively with aviation authorities around the world to determine what kind of operator guidance is most effective at promoting safe and responsible flying.

How do I verify my DJI account?
Users can verify their DJI account by providing a mobile phone number. DJI will not collect, store or save this information.

I’m a commercial operator. Does this system apply to me?
The GEO system provides the same information to every operator. We understand that regulations may vary depending on whether your operation is commercial, recreational, educational, humanitarian, or governmental. DJI is the most popular brand in all categories, which is why our system allows flexible unlocking based on operator judgment. Also, a drone used for business on Wednesday might be used for recreation on Sunday. Because the main functionality of geofencing is to provide information and assist in preventing unintended operations in areas that raise concerns, the system has generally been designed with newcomer and recreational users in mind. Commercial operators are expected to do research and stay informed about restrictions and conditions that may apply to their operations. The unlocking mechanism allows each user to make appropriate individual operational decisions independent of guidance provided by DJI.

Does GEO 2.0 prevent me from flying in places where I could fly before?
GEO 2.0 will alter the boundaries of some previously restricted areas. For the most part though, new GEO Zones are more precise in order to avoid unnecessary restrictions and allow flight in more locations. Using a verified DJI account will further enable users to self-authorize and unlock certain restricted areas. If you are unable to unlock an area, it may be particularly sensitive (i.e. locations near airports or government buildings), or the result of a temporary lock for a public event, emergency, or other reason. Although GEO 2.0 may require a few additional steps, we believe these precautions increase flight safety and result in a smoother, more worry-free experience.

What should I do if I find an error in the system?
DJI will create an error-reporting system. We want our new system to be as accurate and helpful as possible. The unlocking mechanism should allow you to fly in these locations based on your own judgment while DJI evaluates your error report.

Will this cost me anything?
Assuming you have compatible DJI equipment, there will be no charge to upgrade to the new GEO system. Verifying your account with a mobile number will not result in a charge. The phone number is used only as a credential to verify the account. Your carrier’s standard text messaging rates apply to verification that uses SMS or text messaging communications.

I usually fly without an internet-connected device or in a location without data coverage. How do I use the GEO system?
We have developed a webpage that allows you to unlock Authorization Zones in advance of your operation. See the following page for more details: https://www.dji.com/flysafe/self-unlock.

Where is GEO 2.0 currently being implemented?
GEO 2.0 is currently being implemented in the United States only. However, we expect to add other regions in the near future and will make relevant announcements to keep users informed.

Is this related to the FAA UAS registration initiative?
No. This is an independent, industry-led approach to operator education, responsibility, and accountability. DJI will not require governmental registration in order to use the GEO system. If and when a registration system is implemented for aerial systems, we will evaluate whether its use would enhance the GEO system’s functionality. We do not feel that disclosing the personal identification of users is required in order to create a framework for safe aerial system operations.

Is flight information available to the government?
DJI endeavors to keep flight information private unless there is a specific and compelling reason to release it. In the event of an aviation safety or law enforcement investigation, our verification partner(s) may provide details about the credit card or mobile phone number used to verify the DJI account in question. This would offer information regarding any location, date, or time in question. This creates a path to accountability without being burdened for the up-front collection of personal information. We also feel it strikes the appropriate balance at this time. Our observation is that the vast majority of aerial system operators are responsible community citizens who follow the rules and use common sense. We think our customers deserve the benefit of the doubt and an accountability system that is minimally invasive.

Does this mean DJI supports a legal mandate for geofencing?
No. Based on years of customer experience and feedback, we feel that unconditionally restricting device functionality based on geography alone is the wrong approach. This technology is being used by a wide variety of operators with different types of authorization, and varying dates and times. In virtually every area that might be a good candidate for a permanent geofence, we have encountered circumstances in which authorized operators need access. We believe that restricting the use of aerial system technology based on geographical location alone might deter from using the future applications of a technology still in its infancy.

3BEPb Posted at 2-26 08:45
I’ll be flying in St Petersburg two weeks from now. Post more info on your location. I’ll check it out

Coffee pot blvd NE St. Petersburg around 27th ave.  Nice area and used to be a great place to fly the drone

fansb05bb589 Posted at 2-28 12:55
Coffee pot blvd NE St. Petersburg around 27th ave.  Nice area and used to be a great place to fly the drone

Update from OP.....with a Walmart snorkeling kit in hand, I scoured the murky waters of the area where the drone went in.  And glory be, I found it on the second day of searching!  I know now how the searchers for the Titanic must have felt when it came into view. I did have DJI care refresh so will be sending off the waterlogged Mavik for a replacement, with a little more information in hand and lessons learned engraved in my brain.

Dirty Bird Posted at 2-26 07:18
Two years ago, when the P4 was released, I reported this issue both here in the forum & directly to Brandon Schulman of DJI via email.  The decision to force the drone into an auto landing upon encountering an NFZ boundary is disturbing and frankly dangerous. What if the bird lands in a busy street or a crowd of people?  Even the old Phantom 2 was smart enough to simply stop at an NFZ boundary & all the pilot to withdraw.  A forced auto landing is foolish &, aside from lost birds, will end up getting someone injured.  Troubling that two years later this issue has not been corrected.

Agree 100% and 2 years have gone by and I thinks it's even more dangerous now with the Auto-landing.
If you not cleared to fly in restricted airspace (any GEO FENCE) I should be allowed to pass that Geo Fence, the drone should just stop at the fence just like it does at it's altitude limit and distance limit if set. If your in atti mode it won't let you past a certain point or above..
DJI needs to get on this ASAP, I smell a lawsuit coming on

fansb05bb589 Posted at 2-28 13:04
Update from OP.....with a Walmart snorkeling kit in hand, I scoured the murky waters of the area where the drone went in.  And glory be, I found it on the second day of searching!  I know now how the searchers for the Titanic must have felt when it came into view. I did have DJI care refresh so will be sending off the waterlogged Mavik for a replacement, with a little more information in hand and lessons learned engraved in my brain.

Bravo!!!
Keep us posted how it goes with DJI.

I am coming March 10 to St Pete. Not sure yet but probably with Phantom 4 Adv.

By the way
Check out this FAA map.
https://faa.maps.arcgis.com/apps ... 8e19806ebf6a06754ad

You can easily pinpoint Coffee Pot Bayou and see that areas immediately around airport marked zero. Means absolutely no flying. Those squares with 200 means you can fly no higher than 200 feet.

Having the Mavic programmed to land immediately is a very dangerous ...who knows who or what it's going to land on.