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Here is my problem for those who want to know
408 20 3-14 16:17
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SMCORNW4
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I take full responsibility for the crash. Although, I have to say, never have I encountered such an impact from wind.  Have flown in some horrible weather conditions before without any problem with the wind even over water (which is mostly where I fly).  That is why I have been so impressed with the Spark's capabilities in these conditions.  I admit to taking huge chances and flying through some crazy stuff to get material for my videos.  For me, crashing was inevitable! A couple of friends suggested starting a case with DJI to see if they will replace it under warranty even though I had not recovered the drone.  What was the worse that could happen? They review and tell me no. So be it! On the other hand, they might replace it so, what is the harm in trying.  They were very promt in getting back to me even over the weekend.  Which I appreciated.  Really just didn't expect to get the response I got though.  It really made me feel insignificant as a customer to DJI.  First, directly quoted from the email I was told "the GPS signal was blocked by the bridge and the Vision System was not available above the water, so the aircraft was equivalent to working under Atti Mode" also "In Attitude mode, the aircraft could not hover in place, brake and avoid obstacle automatically."  Well, if you notice, right before hitting the wall, the drone beeped indicating that the Vision System was definitely working just fine. That made me feel as though i was being lied to. It was a final effort turning the drone towards the wall in hope that, as a last resort, the obstacle avoidance would kick in. knowing that it was a hail mary and the drone didn't have a chance.  Still I had to try!  Before hitting the wall I was trying to fly all the way to the left to no avail, which was a very odd circumstance I have not encountered before to this extreme.  I personally felt that the wind was nowhere near strong enough that day to create such an extreme path change.  Everything just didn't seem right considering that I did everything I could possibly do to avoid the crash. Moving on, two lines after the second quote, they immediately moved into selling me a new drone for 15% off of $400.  Personally, this is my own opinion, I thought that was just a blatent effort to squeeze more money out of me.  That could have been sent in a completely different e-mail.  Also, I can go to any local store around my area and buy a new one for $300 and a fly more combo for $350 which is only $10 more than what they were offering for just the drone.  That's, my own personal situation and understand that fact may not have been understood at that moment. There are a couple of other things I took to heart that others may not have been bothered by.  One example, addressing me by my name instead of "Customer" since we were several e-mails and a phone conversation into this situation.  Having worked in customer service for over 25 years and owning my own company for a short period of time now, I felt this was a very unproffesional approach.  To wrap this up, I feel insignificant to the company. Mostly, I feel betrayed. Would have just rather been told to go get some lessons because you messed up.  I would have respected that a ton more!  Wish I would have never filed the case for both of our sakes.
3-14 16:17
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SMCORNW4
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3-14 16:19
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SMCORNW4
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I hope I'm not breaking any forum rules but, at least there will be something to learn here. Even if it is me that has something to learn
3-14 16:21
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DJI Mindy
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Hi SMCORNW4, we are so sorry for your loss, upon checking the flight records, when flying under the bridge, the APP prompted Weak GPS Signal, even the drone beeped, the drone still cannot auto-brake itself timely because of lack of GPS. We recommend to land in a safe place as soon as possible instead of keeping flying back and forth under the bridge.
As for the price is too expensive and the form of address, we have forwarded to the appropriate team to look into, we will have someone to contact you soon, please wait patiently, thank you.

3-14 20:08
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SMCORNW4
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DJI Mindy Posted at 3-14 20:08
Hi SMCORNW4, we are so sorry for your loss, upon checking the flight records, when flying under the bridge, the APP prompted Weak GPS Signal, even the drone beeped, the drone still cannot auto-brake itself timely because of lack of GPS. We recommend to land in a safe place as soon as possible instead of keeping flying back and forth under the bridge.As for the price is too expensive and the form of address, we have forwarded to the appropriate team to look into, we will have someone to contact you soon, please wait patiently, thank you.

Your words are very kind. Thank you for your response. Being told that the Vision Sensors did not work kind of nullified everything else within that quote for me. Only because it was obvious that they were working just fine. Once again, my intentions are just to be real.  I can live with the finality of the situation.  Just expected more from such a reputable company.  Maybe my expectations are more demanding than other people's. I do not need any assistance or to push the situation any further.  I am more than capable of taking care of this particular problem.  There is no need for anyone to waste any more of their time on this when I am sure there are people out there with more pressing issues than mine. Just wish this was a path I would have never took.  I get the fact that the technology is awesome yet, it is not capable of performing any kind of supernatural abilities.
3-14 20:59
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KlooGee
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Firstly, very sorry to see and hear you lost your drone in an unfortunate incident.  

Based on the thread title, it sounds like there is a backstory to this topic that I'm unaware of, so I'm not sure if I'm stepping into a hornets nest here by responding or not.  Just understand I'm trying to reply with a 3rd party perspective and trying to be as honest here as I can be.

I would very much be interested to see your logs for this flight.  Please upload it to the following site and then reply here and paste in the resulting URL.  https://www.phantomhelp.com/logviewer/upload/

Just based on the video and without seeing the log, I have to say that I think my diagnosis of the flight would be very similar to what you got from DJI.  

DJI drones essentially have 2 mechanisms for understanding where they are in relation to the world around them.  Firstly, the primary mechanism is GPS and secondly, when GPS is unavailable, it tries to use its downward facing sensors to judge movement.  

In your case, it looks like flying underneath the bridge cause the GPS strength to fall below a certain threshold that allowed the drone to reliably count on it for positioning.  In that case, since you were not very high, it would try to use the downward facing Visual Position System (VPS).  However, due to the fact that you were over water, the VPS system very likely was unable to sense any textures below it and allow for it to be able to be reliably counted on for its positioning.  

So because GPS and VPS both were unreliable in that moment, it was essentially in ATTI mode and had no way of controlling its positioning in the horizontal plane.  

One of the things you mention was in regards to the object avoidance.  You mention that it made a beep just before it hit the wall.  I could be wrong, but to me, that sounded more like a button press on the RC than it did like an object avoidance sensor.  However, that issue really doesn't matter anyways.  This is because when the aircraft is flying without its positioning systems (GPS & VPS), it cannot position itself or auto-brake even if an object would be detected.

I'm sure the wind wasn't blowing very hard, but it was blowing hard enough to be causing sounds on the mic.  When the drones positioning systems are working, an easy breeze is no problem at all.  But when the positioning systems are compromized, you are floating freely with the wind.  I don't know how hard the wind was blowing, but if you think about it, a tiny 4mph wind is still almost 6ft/s.  I would guess to make the noise in the mic, it was probably blowing harder than 4mph.

I'm not quite sure what you were expecting from DJI in this particular case, but I personally think their response was quite reasonable.  I respect your opinion to feel otherwise, but if I was running a business for myself, I would have made the same decision they did.  
For the other stuff in the email ("dear customer" & discount offer not in separate email), again I respect your opinion to feel otherwise, but I think you are just looking for something to be upset about.  Personally, I don't see the difference with offering the discount in the same email.  What's the difference if its in that email or a separate email?  It still the same offer regardless.  And the "Dear Customer" issue... I personally would never do that when interacting with my customers, but I probably wouldn't even think twice about it if I received it from some random support person on the other side of the world.  

I hope you get another drone soon and are back up and flying quickly with many safe and fun flights ahead!

Hopefully I didn't step on a hornets nest here.  
Cheers!
David
3-14 21:23
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KlooGee
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SMCORNW4 Posted at 3-14 20:59
Your words are very kind. Thank you for your response. Being told that the Vision Sensors did not work kind of nullified everything else within that quote for me. Only because it was obvious that they were working just fine. Once again, my intentions are just to be real.  I can live with the finality of the situation.  Just expected more from such a reputable company.  Maybe my expectations are more demanding than other people's. I do not need any assistance or to push the situation any further.  I am more than capable of taking care of this particular problem.  There is no need for anyone to waste any more of their time on this when I am sure there are people out there with more pressing issues than mine. Just wish this was a path I would have never took.  I get the fact that the technology is awesome yet, it is not capable of performing any kind of supernatural abilities.

You've got to understand that there are 2 different vision systems.  One is the forward object avoidance system and the second is the downward visual positioning system.  It could be that the forward object avoidance system was still detecting stuff, but the downward visual positioning system wasn't working due to being over water.
3-14 21:26
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Rustic17
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Sorry for your loss.  In the video, I hear two voices...were you flying the drone or was a friend???   It sounds like the person who says "are you recording" and  "don't go too far" would be the owner while the other person is the one flying.  Why would someone be telling the owner how to fly his drone???
3-14 23:33
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DJI Mindy
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SMCORNW4 Posted at 3-14 20:59
Your words are very kind. Thank you for your response. Being told that the Vision Sensors did not work kind of nullified everything else within that quote for me. Only because it was obvious that they were working just fine. Once again, my intentions are just to be real.  I can live with the finality of the situation.  Just expected more from such a reputable company.  Maybe my expectations are more demanding than other people's. I do not need any assistance or to push the situation any further.  I am more than capable of taking care of this particular problem.  There is no need for anyone to waste any more of their time on this when I am sure there are people out there with more pressing issues than mine. Just wish this was a path I would have never took.  I get the fact that the technology is awesome yet, it is not capable of performing any kind of supernatural abilities.

If you don't need a further verification, I will cancel the escalation case, but please try to fly in open areas with strong GPS signal for the safety concern. Please let us know if you have any further concern.
3-14 23:58
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MavSpa_user
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Netherlands
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I think it was a pilot error (left /right problem) when flying towards you, taking the wrong turn.
So you can check that when uploading your log here: https://www.phantomhelp.com/logviewer/upload/
en see which joystick commands had been recorded and which errors you had.
here example of a mavic pro under a bridge with vps

3-15 00:14
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JJB*
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Nice video, but IMO small mistake, MPP at 1.16 is already in OPTI mode, saying still stable with 5 sats. So MPP is stable because of the vision system.
What i see in the crash video, drifting to the right and looks like the movement is accelerated by the wrong stick input.

Its all in the flightlog....

cheers
JJB
3-15 04:09
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SMCORNW4
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JJB* Posted at 3-15 04:09
Nice video, but IMO small mistake, MPP at 1.16 is already in OPTI mode, saying still stable with 5 sats. So MPP is stable because of the vision system.
What i see in the crash video, drifting to the right and looks like the movement is accelerated by the wrong stick input.

After reviewing the flight record video, I did quickly (literally for a split second) hit the stick the wrong direction (right) initially before maintaining the correct direction (left).  This happened well before I hit the wall and with plenty of time (a few seconds) to move to the left.  It just didn't go left at all! But, I can understand how people could pass this off as improper user control. It's all good.  At this point, I am just glad I went with the spark instead of dropping a couple of grand on the Phantom 4 pro, which was a serious decision at the time of purchase.  
3-15 05:47
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SMCORNW4
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Rustic17 Posted at 3-14 23:33
Sorry for your loss.  In the video, I hear two voices...were you flying the drone or was a friend???   It sounds like the person who says "are you recording" and  "don't go too far" would be the owner while the other person is the one flying.  Why would someone be telling the owner how to fly his drone???

I was flying. That was my buddy spotting for me.  He is a new pilot and a very cautious guy.  I like flying with him because he is constantly reminding me of things that may happen.  Having a spotter when possible is always the best way to fly.
3-15 06:02
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SMCORNW4
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DJI Mindy Posted at 3-14 23:58
If you don't need a further verification, I will cancel the escalation case, but please try to fly in open areas with strong GPS signal for the safety concern. Please let us know if you have any further concern.

Thank you DJI Mindy.  This situation, in my opinion, has been exhausted enough.  I will get a new spark on my own just because I have a collection of equipment to go with it.  From there on out though, I will be investing my money into flying FPV.  
3-15 06:14
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SMCORNW4
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KlooGee Posted at 3-14 21:23
Firstly, very sorry to see and hear you lost your drone in an unfortunate incident.  

Based on the thread title, it sounds like there is a backstory to this topic that I'm unaware of, so I'm not sure if I'm stepping into a hornets nest here by responding or not.  Just understand I'm trying to reply with a 3rd party perspective and trying to be as honest here as I can be.

KlooGee/David,
Thank you for your response. Your description of the events that took place are very thorough and respected on my end.  In retrospect, yes, most of my unhappiness is due to personal feelings.  As I said, some of these things are my own personal opinions that may not bother other people.  The same reason I respect your personal opinions.  I also believe that people's anger levels rise mostly due to lack of knowledge about what is happening in their particular circumstances.  I'm not looking for a reason to be mad. Life presents plenty of viable reasons to get upset naturally.  Going to look for a reason would be self deprivation.  The whole situation is unfortunate, and I am sorry for getting anyone worked up about it.  I do have to say though, your personal explanation was a thousand times more informative than any I have gotten so far.  For that I thank you
3-15 06:45
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KlooGee
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SMCORNW4 Posted at 3-15 06:45
KlooGee/David,
Thank you for your response. Your description of the events that took place are very thorough and respected on my end.  In retrospect, yes, most of my unhappiness is due to personal feelings.  As I said, some of these things are my own personal opinions that may not bother other people.  The same reason I respect your personal opinions.  I also believe that people's anger levels rise mostly due to lack of knowledge about what is happening in their particular circumstances.  I'm not looking for a reason to be mad. Life presents plenty of viable reasons to get upset naturally.  Going to look for a reason would be self deprivation.  The whole situation is unfortunate, and I am sorry for getting anyone worked up about it.  I do have to say though, your personal explanation was a thousand times more informative than any I have gotten so far.  For that I thank you

Cheers for being receptive to my comments and taking them in the constructive manner they were intended!  I think a large portion of us have put our drones in situations we may have regretted.  I certainly have a few times and have been extremely lucky not to have lost or seriously damaged one yet.  But I’ve been super close several times.  Each experience is just another opportunity to learn. Best of luck moving forward!
3-15 07:27
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Gunship9
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SMCORNW4 Posted at 3-15 05:47
After reviewing the flight record video, I did quickly (literally for a split second) hit the stick the wrong direction (right) initially before maintaining the correct direction (left).  This happened well before I hit the wall and with plenty of time (a few seconds) to move to the left.  It just didn't go left at all! But, I can understand how people could pass this off as improper user control. It's all good.  At this point, I am just glad I went with the spark instead of dropping a couple of grand on the Phantom 4 pro, which was a serious decision at the time of purchase.

ATTI mode flying is different than autopilot assisted GPS.  Not only do you have to correct wrong stick input, you have to apply a reverse thrust strong enough to arrest the built up momentum.  Normally, the autopilot does that for the pilot but in ATTI the pilot really has to be on the sticks arresting momentum and correcting the drone falling out of hover.  You are balancing a bowling ball on a pin.

ATTI flight can be done but you need to be quick and accurate, can't do it by video due to lag, or at least have a very wide open area.

You claimed that the vision sensor system was doing fine.  No it was not since it can't be working over water.  It could be on and trying its best, with rippling water, but it would be as blind as flying by video in complete darkness.  For instance, looking down at the open ocean with no external aids would be impossible for a heli pilot to hold still in the airspace.

Fortunately, Sparks are cheap vs. a Mavic 2 Pro.


3-15 07:45
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RJB1
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sorry for your loss. You seem to have had the same problem I had a couple of weeks ago. You lost GPS connection under the bridge and I lost it under the trees. Luckily mine flew straight into the creek bank on the other side. You certainly only get a second to take action, and that second is taken up with realising that you've lost connection, by then if you are in a tight position its too late.

Just one note, you seemed to manage to find your "flight records" which is a txt file. I had a hell of a time, because everyone calls them "logs" I wish they wouldn't, as the log files are something different, (I'm not even sure that the logs are for) I also think the

This was my flight.


And this was my flight record. At 4m 43.1 it is flying fine with gps and in tripod mode, I'd had had a couple of satellite warnings, but was still in GPS. But in fractions of a second it drops out of tripod mode when it loses all GPS and goes into ATTI and then I guess it was my forward stick in the split second change that increased the speed from 2.2mph to 19mph  and it went straight into the creek bank.  

https://www.phantomhelp.com/LogViewer/W57WSYGIRG1MRN09CDO0/

I've since found other analysing sites and i think this one is actually better than the Phantom one that everyone pitches here.
https://app.airdata.com/main?a=upload
3-15 18:55
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DJI Mindy
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SMCORNW4 Posted at 3-15 06:14
Thank you DJI Mindy.  This situation, in my opinion, has been exhausted enough.  I will get a new spark on my own just because I have a collection of equipment to go with it.  From there on out though, I will be investing my money into flying FPV.

We respect your decision and hope the same issue will never happen again, have a good time.
3-16 18:23
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Climbnride58
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I sorry for being harsh, but you seem to admit a mistake, and still want to be rewarded.
3-17 15:13
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eYeSkYeYe
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Reviewed the video and to me it looks like left/right side was confused when flying nose in.
When in ATTI mode, Spark is very inert as most systems that actually fly on operators behalf are not working (breaking being the most obvious one).
1.9:1 thrust to weight ratio of Spark does not help the situation neither.

Just as a sidenote, DJI standard is 2.5 to 1 across most devices and this is very close to el cheapo MJX Bugs 3 2.6:1.
Usually, drones with 3:1 are the ones starting to behave decently when flown untwinkled.
3-19 06:01
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