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Does any take-off pad exist? *interference*
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AntDX316
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A Big take-off pad that will Block All magnetic interference so you can take-off even under the most interference underground surfaces such as a 10-story garage?   Sometimes you don't have a choice but to take-off on the spot.  It would be great because you can take-off on top of your car and back land on it.  If you land on a heavily 999 Compass 1 999 Compass 2 interference surface can it overload/crash the system enough that it would instantly fly-away forever?

The P4 doesn't allow you to take off unless there is No interference.  With the Mavic 2, I can take off even with interference Perfectly fine.  The understanding is landing.  You are already in the air and going to land on the 999 area.  If you even sweep or touch the surface, will it lose compass completely?

Thoughts?  Even if you disagree and think I have no idea what I'm talking about so you can bump up the post.

I've never tried it but can you take-off in Atti mode with "Compass needs calibration"?
6-29 17:50
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Geebax
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It is not the landing that is the issue, nor the actual take-off, it is powering on the aircraft while it sits on a magnetic surface. And no, there is not such thing as a landing pad that will block the magnetic interference. And again, no, taking off in ATTI mode has no effect on magentic interference, ATTI mode simply means not using GPS correction for stability.
6-29 18:13
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Labroides
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The understanding is landing.
Interesting sentence.
Perhaps you mean .. the understanding is lacking?
That would be appropriate for just about everything you post.
You are already in the air and going to land on the 999 area.  If you even sweep or touch the surface, will it lose compass completely?
Sorry ,.  I only understand English but it looks like you don't.
Even if you disagree and think I have no idea what I'm talking about.
As demonstrated by this post, that's always a safe bet.
I've never tried it but can you take-off in Atti mode with "Compass needs calibration"?
If your compass is warning you of magnetic interference nearby, calibrating the compass won't solve the problem it's warning you about.
Moving away from the problem is what you have to do.
6-29 20:19
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AntDX316
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Geebax Posted at 6-29 18:13
It is not the landing that is the issue, nor the actual take-off, it is powering on the aircraft while it sits on a magnetic surface. And no, there is not such thing as a landing pad that will block the magnetic interference. And again, no, taking off in ATTI mode has no effect on magentic interference, ATTI mode simply means not using GPS correction for stability.

But the compass shouldn't be relied upon in Atti mode or it still is?
6-29 22:27
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Geebax
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AntDX316 Posted at 6-29 22:27
But the compass shouldn't be relied upon in Atti mode or it still is?

ATTI mode is only different in that GPS readings are not used to stabilise the aircraft in a particular position, therefore the aircraft can be blown away by winds. The compass is not used in the ATTRI mode.
6-29 22:41
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AntDX316
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Geebax Posted at 6-29 22:41
ATTI mode is only different in that GPS readings are not used to stabilise the aircraft in a particular position, therefore the aircraft can be blown away by winds. The compass is not used in the ATTRI mode.

Exactly, so if we have a solid 100% compass interference it doesn't matter then?
6-29 23:13
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Geebax
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AntDX316 Posted at 6-29 23:13
Exactly, so if we have a solid 100% compass interference it doesn't matter then?

You are going to have to re-phrase that. I don't know what you mean.
6-29 23:15
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AntDX316
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Geebax Posted at 6-29 23:15
You are going to have to re-phrase that. I don't know what you mean.

"ATTI mode is only different in that GPS readings are not used to stabilise the aircraft in a particular position, therefore the aircraft can be blown away by winds. The compass is not used in the ATTRI mode."

So the compass does not matter whether it works or not?
6-29 23:17
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Labroides
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AntDX316 Posted at 6-29 23:17
"ATTI mode is only different in that GPS readings are not used to stabilise the aircraft in a particular position, therefore the aircraft can be blown away by winds. The compass is not used in the ATTRI mode."

So the compass does not matter whether it works or not?

It would be so much easier if you understood something of how the drone works and how to fly it
and
... the English language.
6-29 23:20
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AntDX316
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Labroides Posted at 6-29 23:20
It would be so much easier if you understood something of how the drone works and how to fly it
and
... the English language.

I was copying and pasting his Exact words.  It's mistyped but I've paraphrased everything letter for letter.

Your statements are usually irrelevant.  If I didn't know how to fly I wouldn't have a website.
6-29 23:22
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Geebax
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AntDX316 Posted at 6-29 23:17
"ATTI mode is only different in that GPS readings are not used to stabilise the aircraft in a particular position, therefore the aircraft can be blown away by winds. The compass is not used in the ATTRI mode."

So the compass does not matter whether it works or not?

"So the compass does not matter whether it works or not?"

Of course it matters. Again, why would DJI put a compass in the aircraft if it was not needed. You need to understand that P mode uses the full range of sensors to stabilise the aircraft's position, but ATTI mode only uses the barometer to hold altitude, meaning the aircraft can drift away, the only thing it will do is try to stay at the same height.

But when the aircraft has had the compass influenced by something magnetic nearby, the aircraft decides that the compass cannot be trusted and switches to ATTI mode automatically. And one of the most common mistakes made by flyers is to switch on the aircraft and launch it from a surface that contains ferro-magnetic materials, such as concrete containing rebar or the roof or hood af a car. Then as soon as the aircraft gets airborne, it realises the compass is screwed and switches to ATTI mode. The pilot most often has never flown in ATTI mode, does not realise what has happened and calls it a fly-away.
6-29 23:33
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AntDX316
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Geebax Posted at 6-29 23:33
"So the compass does not matter whether it works or not?"

Of course it matters. Again, why would DJI put a compass in the aircraft if it was not needed. You need to understand that P mode uses the full range of sensors to stabilise the aircraft's position, but ATTI mode only uses the barometer to hold altitude, meaning the aircraft can drift away, the only thing it will do is try to stay at the same height.

"The pilot most often has never flown in ATTI mode, does not realize what has happened and calls it a fly-away."

But it's not that out there compared to GPS unless they are trying to fly it in 3rd person.  Maybe they don't know how to fly at all and cannot RTH as a novice.

6-29 23:37
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AntDX316 Posted at 6-29 23:37
"The pilot most often has never flown in ATTI mode, does not realize what has happened and calls it a fly-away."

But it's not that out there compared to GPS unless they are trying to fly it in 3rd person.  Maybe they don't know how to fly at all and cannot RTH as a novice.

Again, I have no idea what you are getting at. And if I undersatand a little of what you posted, RTH does not work if the aircraft has automatically selected ATTI mode.
6-29 23:42
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Peterx
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The refraction of the magnetic field must be strong that you got such error message. A landing-take off pad couldn´t block that refraction. If you have an Apple device then you can use the internal compass app to test the area for refractions of magnetic ray of the North-South direction.
6-29 23:44
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Labroides
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AntDX316 Posted at 6-29 23:22
I was copying and pasting his Exact words.  It's mistyped but I've paraphrased everything letter for letter.

Your statements are usually irrelevant.  If I didn't know how to fly I wouldn't have a website.

It's mistyped but I've paraphrased everything letter for letter.
???  What language are you using?
Did you paraphrase it or did you copy letter for letter?
Theose are two different things.
And that he had a typo in one word was not the issue.

If I didn't know how to fly I wouldn't have a website.
Of course ... because everyone that has a website knows how to fly.


6-30 00:06
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Labroides
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AntDX316 Posted at 6-29 23:37
"The pilot most often has never flown in ATTI mode, does not realize what has happened and calls it a fly-away."

But it's not that out there compared to GPS unless they are trying to fly it in 3rd person.  Maybe they don't know how to fly at all and cannot RTH as a novice.

Get a yaw error from powering up on a magnetically compromised location and find out how well you can fly in atti mode.
<Hint>  It won't make any difference and you'll still lose your drone.
6-30 00:09
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AntDX316
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Labroides Posted at 6-30 00:09
Get a yaw error from powering up on a magnetically compromised location and find out how well you can fly in atti mode.
  It won't make any difference and you'll still lose your drone.

I never took off in Atti mode but you can take-off in Atti mode w/ compass errors?   Does it mean it won't fly properly or it can and is all down to manual Piloting skill?
6-30 00:26
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solentlife
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What a thread ... blimey makes the eyes water reading it.

Lets be clear :

When the Phantom powers up - it goes through an initialisation sequence that involves ALL sensors of whatever form to have Flight Controller full ready for flight.  That means if you are in a Compass Error location - you will not have a fully initialised correctly Flight Controller.

Whether you can take of in ATTI mode - I do not know, BUT I would expect that your flight will now be 'interesting' as the Compass would have been in error on take off and now in flight will be debatable as to whether it can 'talk' to Flight Controller as to direction.  Would I risk it ? No way !!  But if you do it ... please post back results.

As to countering magnetic status of location ... yes it can be done ... BUT it needs monitoring of actual magnetic state ... variable counter measures ... not something a 'Take-ff' Pad can do.  
6-30 01:15
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AntDX316
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solentlife Posted at 6-30 01:15
What a thread ... blimey makes the eyes water reading it.

Lets be clear :

Yeah, I'm worried if I take off in A-mode that switching to P-mode it didn't initialize correctly..  But in an open field, I will try.  This way you are allowed to take-off on a boat as that is the only way to take-off.
6-30 01:53
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Labroides
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AntDX316 Posted at 6-30 01:53
Yeah, I'm worried if I take off in A-mode that switching to P-mode it didn't initialize correctly..  But in an open field, I will try.  This way you are allowed to take-off on a boat as that is the only way to take-off.

This way you are allowed to take-off on a boat as that is the only way to take-off.
You really have no idea of any of this and no idea how limited your knowledge is, do you?
6-30 01:59
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solentlife
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Did someone mention boats ?



Just a selection of my 'boats'.

If you are on a boat and have a second person ... then have them hold the model out full arm length above head .... take off from there ... making sure they know to let BOTH hands go same time.
Landing is a reverse of this.

Must admit though the 'red and blue' motor boat is an old Soviet aluminium boat - so I have no trouble of its foredeck ...

Just to 'digress' ... I fitted the old seats from my Volvo and its now super comfortable ... just nice to relax with a beer ...

6-30 03:08
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EdM
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A more humorous way to look at it;  many of these posts contain so much BS that if they were rained on, the EPA would have a field day writing fines for all the stormwater runoff.

6-30 04:53
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Schmooit
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Sorry bit a of a long winded one here!

In the real world the risk is yours! If the flight controls are giving you a warning there is a good reason, should you choose to ignore this then that is your choice, If you are capable of flying in, shall we say manual mode with no help from the GPS the compass (if not calibrated) would not provide you with accurate information so could not be relied upon! If you are flying VLOS (which you should always be) and can keep the bird insight, you just need to be aware that it is you and your skill set and nothing else!
You could try and calibrate the compass in a different area where there is no interference prior to getting to your TO/LZ spot, I don’t think it matters where calibration takes place (within reason!) just that it has been calibrated prior to the flight (maybe someone with more knowledge than me could confirm compass calibration and if it is take off site specific?)
The compass is really aimed at providing the pilot with a reference on the drone's position, heading and direction relevant to the pilot station (that's you and your controller!) if you can take off without the compass being calibrated then this information might not be correct and therefore not reliable so you would need to exercise caution and only flying where you can easily see the drone and its attitude and be able to know what direction your stick inputs translate to. I think the compass comes more into effect when your location may limit access to enough satellites to provide and accurate location (GPS Lock) but don’t quote me on that!
To be completely clear though I am not saying you can, can’t or shouldn’t but you MUST take note of the warnings and assess the risk and safety accordingly.
I don’t think the issue you are getting is really anything to do with compass calibration anyway its more just the interference at your TO/LZ the drone is basically trying to tell you it’s not safe to take off because it has poor signal. (If it’s only the P4P that is giving you this issue then maybe use your Mavic2 as a your back up, you still need to think about the implications before the flight though!)
Launching from a boat is doable (I am assuming this is what you are trying to do) but bear in mind there is a lot of interference all around not just for the compass, there is the construction of  the boat metal/fibre glass, the radio systems and radar on board, and any other boats around so caution should always be exercised,  also need to think about the sea and the rise and fall of the boat as this will affect your take off and landing depending on what the swell is like! A few feet can make quite a difference and then factor in wind age too it can be quite tricky! Also wind can lay a big factor out at sea away from any land protection! (I flew around at an old sea fort here in Southampton Water, UK left over from the war, and it was almost impossible my P3P just about managed it but I had to stay very close to the fort and keep an eye on battery life! Landing was also hard work as it was also
Found this that might help explain the compass that might help you and others https://www.mavichelp.com/tips/d ... alibration-guide.33 it’s for a Mavic but the general idea is the same for all DJI drones.
Interference can be from anywhere so a landing pad is not really going to help you, the chances are the compass doesn’t really need any calibration it’s just there is a lot or radio signals or metallic objects about, the question you need to ask yourself really is am I prepared to a) lose my drone? b) Potentially cause injury or damage to a person or property? I for one would see you in court if you were to crash into my Sunseeker because you lost control and ignored the warnings! (I don’t have a Sunseeker so you are ok! but you get my point!)
There IS NO excuse for a fly away if you ignore all the signs!
Not sure on your comment on flying ability and having a website! Have you not heard of Wix!
Also your site seems to show images of some pretty tall structures in New York and I'm pretty sure from the shots you are way above 400ft above the ground as per the law for a commercial Part 107 certificate holder (granted you might have taken these as a private individual) which does make me think that safety and responsible are 2 words that do not appear at the top of your agenda, unless you had permission from that building owner and it was your initial take off point in which case I apologise but there are lot of images that lend themselves to being taken at quite some height! Those shots would not be in Class G airspace and run the risk of interfering with manned aircraft so perhaps not the best advertising for commercial work not only misleading to customers but also that you are prepared to act in an unsafe manor! (you are potentially at risk of the FAA wanting a word too!
I hope this helps you but Please Please Please take the advice of others on here and always fly responsibly (I'm in the UK) but no-one wants our passion restricted through unsafe actions which spoil it for the masses, just think of the poor buggers in Canada!
6-30 05:18
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Schmooit
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solentlife Posted at 6-30 03:08
Did someone mention boats ?

[view_image]

Luv it good work!

The last image conjures up the image of telling the missus I'm just popping down to work on the boat back later!
6-30 05:22
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Labroides
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Schmooit Posted at 6-30 05:18
Sorry bit a of a long winded one here!

In the real world the risk is yours! If the flight controls are giving you a warning there is a good reason, should you choose to ignore this then that is your choice, If you are capable of flying in, shall we say manual mode with no help from the GPS the compass (if not calibrated) would not provide you with accurate information so could not be relied upon! If you are flying VLOS (which you should always be) and can keep the bird insight, you just need to be aware that it is you and your skill set and nothing else!

To just address a small party of your post:
You could try and calibrate the compass in a different area where there is no interference prior to getting to your TO/LZ spot, I don’t think it matters where calibration takes place (within reason!) just that it has been calibrated prior to the flight (maybe someone with more knowledge than me could confirm compass calibration and if it is take off site specific?)
Why do you want to calibrate the compass at all?
The manual for the P4pro gives you an idea of how little it needs calibrating.
I got my P4 pro the week they were released and have never calibrated anything on it.
Despite heavy professional use for more than 2 years, it flies perfectly.
If anyone tells you you need to be calibrating your compass, they don't understand what compass calibration actually does (and what it doesn't do).
6-30 05:54
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Schmooit
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Labroides Posted at 6-30 05:54
To just address a small party of your post:
You could try and calibrate the compass in a different area where there is no interference prior to getting to your TO/LZ spot, I don’t think it matters where calibration takes place (within reason!) just that it has been calibrated prior to the flight (maybe someone with more knowledge than me could confirm compass calibration and if it is take off site specific?)
Why do you want to calibrate the compass at all?

For me its just a belt and braces thing you are right and it doesnt need doing every time a flight happens, I fly in different areas so re-calibrate when i get to a new area but I admit I dont always do it if I havent been anywhere different un less the app asks.

The PFCO course in the UK generally say as part of the procedures manual to calibrate the compass, then it is documented as part of the maintenance routine. Im a pilot so love a checklist too!
6-30 06:14
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solentlife
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Schmooit Posted at 6-30 05:22
Luv it good work!

The last image conjures up the image of telling the missus I'm just popping down to work on the boat back later!

The sailboat used to be in Langstone Harbour and cruised the Solent for many years.

You mention the Forts in a previous post ... I take it you may have been flying round No Mans ??

Here's dried out for picnic Priory Bay ....

6-30 07:56
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Schmooit
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solentlife Posted at 6-30 07:56
The sailboat used to be in Langstone Harbour and cruised the Solent for many years.

You mention the Forts in a previous post ... I take it you may have been flying round No Mans ??

Nice pic, the Fort was indeed No Mans Fort, we had a work party there but the weather was on a constant change! Took this pic really early in the morning before the rain came in, I managed to get a little bit of filming in the night before but the light was fading!

6-30 08:01
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Schmooit
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Schmooit Posted at 6-30 08:01
Nice pic, the Fort was indeed No Mans Fort, we had a work party there but the weather was on a constant change! Took this pic really early in the morning before the rain came in, I managed to get a little bit of filming in the night before but the light was fading!

[view_image]

Fading Sunlight to the West on the left is the Isle of Wight dead ahead is Southampton this was shot on my trusty P3P
Link below for anyone interested in the forts history! I think one of the others is still for sale!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Man%27s_Land_Fort
6-30 08:05
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AntDX316
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Schmooit Posted at 6-30 05:18
Sorry bit a of a long winded one here!

In the real world the risk is yours! If the flight controls are giving you a warning there is a good reason, should you choose to ignore this then that is your choice, If you are capable of flying in, shall we say manual mode with no help from the GPS the compass (if not calibrated) would not provide you with accurate information so could not be relied upon! If you are flying VLOS (which you should always be) and can keep the bird insight, you just need to be aware that it is you and your skill set and nothing else!

The real question is, does level-flight take calculations from the compass at all?
6-30 12:00
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AntDX316
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Also, I took some video of the SailGP race at low alt for all you boat lovers.  I'm going to edit it but I need to know what song to use.  Any suggestions?
6-30 12:04
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JPilotR
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I don't think anyone would pass an exam question about the decision matrix if they thought it was alright to fly without a calibrated compass.
6-30 12:15
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Geebax
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JPilotR Posted at 6-30 12:15
I don't think anyone would pass an exam question about the decision matrix if they thought it was alright to fly without a calibrated compass.

Possibly, but the question is what do you think the calibration of the compass is intended to achieve?

Most people do not realise that it is primarily a hang-over from the earlier Phantoms where you could fit a variety of cameras or other payloads to the aircraft, and the calibration was used to tell the flight controller what part of the magnetic field surrounding the aircraft belonged to the aircraft, and what did not.

It does not, as most people tend to think, identify magnetic variation, or even where magnetic north is located, as there is nothing in the procedure to set the 'actual' position of magnetic north. In other words, there is no reference point.
6-30 14:40
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Labroides
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AntDX316 Posted at 6-30 12:00
The real question is, does level-flight take calculations from the compass at all?

Where did that stupid question come from?
It doesn't matter what altitude you fly, you need your compass.


6-30 15:14
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Labroides
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JPilotR Posted at 6-30 12:15
I don't think anyone would pass an exam question about the decision matrix if they thought it was alright to fly without a calibrated compass.

Of course your compass needs to be calibrated.
And once it's calibrated, that's it .. unless you modify the drone.
Read your P4 pro manual to see what the manufacturer has to say on the topic.
You don't even need to calibrate the compass when the drone is new out of the box.
6-30 15:17
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Labroides
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Schmooit Posted at 6-30 06:14
For me its just a belt and braces thing you are right and it doesnt need doing every time a flight happens, I fly in different areas so re-calibrate when i get to a new area but I admit I dont always do it if I havent been anywhere different un less the app asks.

The PFCO course in the UK generally say as part of the procedures manual to calibrate the compass, then it is documented as part of the maintenance routine. Im a pilot so love a checklist too!

For me its just a belt and braces thing ...
I fly in different areas so re-calibrate when i get to a new area but I admit I dont always do it if I havent been anywhere different un less the app asks.

It's common for flyers to think that calibrating the compass is a safety thing (belt and braces) but recalibrating the compass is unnecessary and does nothing to make you any safer.
How far you've travelled is irrelevant as calibration is only about your drone and not about a geographic location.
Compass calibration only identifies and measures the magnetic fields that are part of the drone so they can be discounted.

If you fly that Robinson, it will have had it's compass adjusted to correct any minor errors due to magnetic fields that are part of the aircraft.
But you don't call in a licensed compass adjuster when you fly at a new location.
Calibrating the drone's compass is the digital equivalent of employing a compass adjuster/


The PFCO course in the UK generally say as part of the procedures manual to calibrate the compass, then it is documented as part of the maintenance routine. Im a pilot so love a checklist too!
If so that's based on the same common misconceptions about the compass and what calibrating it actually does.
You fly safer if you understand what's really happening and act on it,  rather than perpetuating a myth that should have died long ago.
6-30 15:26
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AntDX316
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Geebax Posted at 6-30 14:40
Possibly, but the question is what do you think the calibration of the compass is intended to achieve?

Most people do not realise that it is primarily a hang-over from the earlier Phantoms where you could fit a variety of cameras or other payloads to the aircraft, and the calibration was used to tell the flight controller what part of the magnetic field surrounding the aircraft belonged to the aircraft, and what did not.

So it's not really a procedure to set the actual position of magnetic north?  Can DJI confirm?
6-30 15:51
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AntDX316
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Labroides Posted at 6-30 15:14
Where did that stupid question come from?
It doesn't matter what altitude you fly, you need your compass.

It's not altitude, it's the attitude to let the aircraft know if it's in level-flight or not.  Like, when you are off the sticks it stays in place.  Back then we had to calibrate the stuff ourselves and make adjustments but when the wind hits it, there is really nothing you can do.  That is what "attitude" mode pretty much is.

Like, when you let go, it will drift back left, forward, backward, diagonal, etc.  This happens when the aircraft cg isn't directly spot on in the middle.  It sucked messing w/ that stuff.  Then we went go FPV racer mode by putting a Gopro on it and flying.

Basically like this.
6-30 15:53
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AntDX316
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If you get the configuration settings correct you can do stuff like this.  Stuff, far far beyond what DJI would allow for liability reasons.  This is the world I came from before I went to DJI.
6-30 16:02
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Geebax
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AntDX316 Posted at 6-30 15:51
So it's not really a procedure to set the actual position of magnetic north?  Can DJI confirm?

"Can DJI confirm?"

No. The moderators on here are not engineers and in most cases, have no technical knowledge. And no again, it is not a procedure to set magnetic north. Read through the calibration procedure. Are you ever asked to point it towards north, or any other compass point?
6-30 17:02
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