Hi all,

I'm really disappointed by our new M210 RTK V2. This is obviously NOT an enterprise solution. I think we should formally notify to DJI a very urget - and definitive - solution to the many issues this system has.

My short list is the following:

• D-RTK mobile station is NOT stable. Also, it's useful when used with just one RC, or when used to contrast interference, or if you need to PPK BUT just using X7 (not working with XT2).
• RTK with mobile station does not save RTK EXIF data if shooting manually (DJI, it happens when you make inspections, are you aware of this?), and it works with JUST ONE RC linked.
• If you need to work with two RCs - which is mandatory, especially for inspections) you CANNOT use D-RTK V2 to mitigate interferences, so you can work with simple GPS or link to local nRTK, losing other RTK benefits.
• By the way, notice that D-RTK V2 is for Matrice ONLY, so it won't work with Phantom RTK.
• Anyway, local nRTK does NOT store RTK positioning in images EXIF data.
• About shooting interval, the X7 camera is really, really, really slow when shooting in jpeg (both automatic trigger from mission planning, and manual triggering), actually making the X7 NOT usable for mapping. Using RAW files is even worse, of course. Our X7 is fairly fast when used on an inspire 2 (saving on microSD, NOT SSD).
• XT2 camera DOES NOT store ECEF data ( position and rotation of the sensor) on EXIF! This is really bad! We use ContextCapture for aerotriangulation, the software cannot AT XT2 images because of this lack. This is unacceptable.
• Also, the XT2 is a little slow when shooting (I mean shooting interval).
• When we plan a mission using DJI Pilot and the XT2, we cannot fly lower than 25 metres.
• Why the Phantom 4 Pro with GS PRO follows precisely the planned line, while the M210 RTK V2 with DJI Pilot planning moves from the planned grid?
• Please be aware that front left motor is always hotter than others, because it works more due to the left only support when using the X7 or the XT2. This obviously causes long term issues, since a motor which works more than others, it will have problems earlier. And likely it will have issues while flying. And it's a quad, you make your conclusions.
• CrystalSky is a close device, which is unreasonable. So cannot install the apps with features that DJI should include as default for enterprise clients. Actually, for DJI, we are NOT enterprise clients, we are richer clients who can pay more for these toys.
• Cameras are not supported by default by DJI Pilot Mission planning section. DJI GS PRO supports M210 RTK, but does not use RTK data, and does not include cameras as default.
• CrystalSky Ultra is HOT. I hope it will work in summer.
• Second RC, the one for payload operator, CANNOT review shot images and cannot control some aircraft options which could actually be useful when working with two persons on the field. As an example, the pilot in command may ask to the operator to turn off proximity sensors to get closer to subjects while inspectioning, but this is not possible.
• Second RC often misses link to the aircraft, resulting in time lost on the field.
  

And we could write even more.

I want to return this toy system. I would suggest to professionals to switch to Intel, Microdrones or others. Despite some minor complications (i.e. images shot with Falcon must be post linked to the flight mission data for EXIF registration, but it's a quick operation on the PC), they are professional platforms.

Is there anyone on my side? Are you really happy about your purchase?

Hi AerobotROI, we sincerely apologize for the unpleasant experience with Matrice 210 RTK V2, we care much about your feedback and your concerns will be escalated to our engineers for attention, we will keep improving our products to make you have a better experience. Sorry again for any inconvenience caused.

Can't speak directly to the M210 RTK V2 and your issues with it, but we have the P4P RTK and M210 V2 (non-RTK) and can definitely sympathize with and support your experience- the one constant with DJI gear, enterprise or otherwise, is that there are ALWAYS hidden limitations and lack of functionality that the user only discovers after trying to actually use the products for their intended uses. Functionalities that are advertised often turn out to be vaporware, "to be added as a future upgrade", or exist but don't perform as promised. New versions of platforms don't always mean better (or even equal) performance, and compatibility issues are common. Software functionality across the "professional" systems is not at all uniform, and the many different apps one must use often seem like one-offs designed by folks that never fly.
The enterprise stuff always comes with an enterprise price tag but often does feel more like a high-end toy than a professional tool.

I don't think the M210 V2 RTK is for mapping especially on the X7 though I would have the same if I could but you did it for everyone.  It's mainly for inspects and search and rescue?  The findings you gave were very good.  I wish you could have listed everything.

Try an X4S or X5S to compare?  

I wish I would have seen this post last week!  I just dropped a ton of dough on the RTK and am already regretting it.  I've been all over the net trying to figure out how to accomplish multi battery/flight mapping, get the GS Pro on the CrystalSky, and turn this investment into a 3D as-built of the manufacturing plant I'm responsbile for.  All I keep running into is more cost and more dissapointment.  This is after spending many hours just trying to get this thing set up and crossed linked to all the things the DJI Authorized dealer insisted I needed including the X7 & XT2 to complete this mapping & As-Built project ... very dissapointed to read the above!

AntDX316 Posted at 10-18 16:39
I don't think the M210 V2 RTK is for mapping especially on the X7 though I would have the same if I could but you did it for everyone.  It's mainly for inspects and search and rescue?  The findings you gave were very good.  I wish you could have listed everything.

Try an X4S or X5S to compare?

X7 is definitely not the best sensor choice for mapping but the statement about the M210 V2 RTK "not being for mapping" is rubbish.

patiam Posted at 10-21 11:03
X7 is definitely not the best sensor choice for mapping but the statement about the M210 V2 RTK "not being for mapping" is rubbish.

What is the best sensor for mapping?

AntDX316 Posted at 10-21 13:49
What is the best sensor for mapping?

Ambiguous question. How long is a piece of string?

The best sensor for mapping is the one that has the capabilities to meet the requirements of the project.

cost
spectral resolution
sensor size
GSD
focal length
aperture
size
weight
power consumption
trigger rate
global vs rolling shutter
etc.

The X7 is a good camera for cinematography. For regular RGB mapping, although it has global shutter and more pixels, these advantages don't justify the overall cost and the X5S is a better choice IMO, especially given AerobotROI's report that the trigger rate is unacceptable. I don't have and have never used an X7 though, so I'm going just by DJI's specs, reviews, and word of mouth.

Thanks all for your answers. Sorry but DJI forum does not notify me about replies. I'm going to answer you tomorrow.

patiam Posted at 10-22 08:45
Ambiguous question. How long is a piece of string?

The best sensor for mapping is the one that has the capabilities to meet the requirements of the project.

What is the best camera for mapping?  The multispectral P4?

AntDX316 Posted at 10-22 14:01
What is the best camera for mapping?  The multispectral P4?

Depending on your budget use a Sony RX1R II, Hasselblad X1D or the Phase One iXU 1000 for RGB photogrammetry.
If you need a camera for multispectral data collection use a MicaSense RedEdge MX, Sentera Quad or the Slantrange P4+ sensor.

What are the differences between the Sony RX1R II and Sony A7 III?

AntDX316 Posted at 10-22 14:01
What is the best camera for mapping?  The multispectral P4?

For mapping what? Again, the tool must fit the needs of the project. But if multispec data are needed, the camera on the P4M is far from the best available in terms of resolution and capabilities.

MicaSense Altum or RedEdge MX would be much better choices.

Keule Posted at 10-22 20:47
Depending on your budget use a Sony RX1R II, Hasselblad X1D or the Phase One iXU 1000 for RGB photogrammetry.
If you need a camera for multispectral data collection use a MicaSense RedEdge MX, Sentera Quad or the Slantrange P4+ sensor.

Agreed on the Sony RX1R II for RGB, assuming the aircraft can mount and support it. MicaSense Altum has better resolution than RedEdge and also thermal in basically the same footprint.

patiam Posted at 10-23 08:48
For mapping what? Again, the tool must fit the needs of the project. But if multispec data are needed, the camera on the P4M is far from the best available in terms of resolution and capabilities.

MicaSense Altum or RedEdge MX would be much better choices.

What does multispectral even do versus image stitching?

AntDX316 Posted at 10-23 09:25
What does multispectral even do versus image stitching?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multispectral_image

Apologies to AerobotROI for the threadcrash. That is all.

DJI Mindy Posted at 10-18 00:53
Hi AerobotROI, we sincerely apologize for the unpleasant experience with Matrice 210 RTK V2, we care much about your feedback and your concerns will be escalated to our engineers for attention, we will keep improving our products to make you have a better experience. Sorry again for any inconvenience caused.

Dear DJI Mindy,

thank you for your reply, but it's weeks that I discuss via email with your support, and I got no solutions so far.

DJI has something around 6000 persons for developing products, and has a behavior towards its Enterprise clients which is unacceptable.

I think that serious Enterprise operators will fall into this trap just once, and you risk to lose many good clients and international reliability as Enterprise manufacturer.

M210 RTK V2 used with the X7 is very, too much slow for mapping. It's also just a little reliable in high interference areas (using it with custom RTK network). We noticed it once again yesterday during a cell tower inspection.

patiam Posted at 10-18 11:35
Can't speak directly to the M210 RTK V2 and your issues with it, but we have the P4P RTK and M210 V2 (non-RTK) and can definitely sympathize with and support your experience- the one constant with DJI gear, enterprise or otherwise, is that there are ALWAYS hidden limitations and lack of functionality that the user only discovers after trying to actually use the products for their intended uses. Functionalities that are advertised often turn out to be vaporware, "to be added as a future upgrade", or exist but don't perform as promised. New versions of platforms don't always mean better (or even equal) performance, and compatibility issues are common. Software functionality across the "professional" systems is not at all uniform, and the many different apps one must use often seem like one-offs designed by folks that never fly.
The enterprise stuff always comes with an enterprise price tag but often does feel more like a high-end toy than a professional tool.

100% agree with you.

The M210 RTK V2 maybe is a good product for SAR, but not for enterprise users.

AntDX316 Posted at 10-18 16:39
I don't think the M210 V2 RTK is for mapping especially on the X7 though I would have the same if I could but you did it for everyone.  It's mainly for inspects and search and rescue?  The findings you gave were very good.  I wish you could have listed everything.

Try an X4S or X5S to compare?

Tried the X5S, is way too slow, as much as the X7.

DJI advertises the X7 for mapping, it's misleading advertising.

mn037608＼@gmail Posted at 10-19 12:55
I wish I would have seen this post last week!  I just dropped a ton of dough on the RTK and am already regretting it.  I've been all over the net trying to figure out how to accomplish multi battery/flight mapping, get the GS Pro on the CrystalSky, and turn this investment into a 3D as-built of the manufacturing plant I'm responsbile for.  All I keep running into is more cost and more dissapointment.  This is after spending many hours just trying to get this thing set up and crossed linked to all the things the DJI Authorized dealer insisted I needed including the X7 & XT2 to complete this mapping & As-Built project ... very dissapointed to read the above!

I think we should, really, formally complain against DJI.

If you want to contact me privately, we will contact some other unsatisfied clients and try to move ahead.

patiam Posted at 10-21 11:03
X7 is definitely not the best sensor choice for mapping but the statement about the M210 V2 RTK "not being for mapping" is rubbish.

We also had an Intel Falcon 8 Plus. A completely different beast for every application. It's not perfect, though.

I look forward to sell the M210 to finance one more Falcon.

patiam Posted at 10-22 08:45
Ambiguous question. How long is a piece of string?

The best sensor for mapping is the one that has the capabilities to meet the requirements of the project.

patiam, the trigger issue is exactly the same with the X5S. I really hope the issue is on firmware, but DJI doesn't care about Enterprise users, so they won't solve it. I bet.

AerobotROI Posted at 10-24 11:14
Tried the X5S, is way too slow, as much as the X7.

DJI advertises the X7 for mapping, it's misleading advertising.

So the P4PV2.0 is ideal at the price class?

AerobotROI Posted at 10-24 11:22
We also had an Intel Falcon 8 Plus. A completely different beast for every application. It's not perfect, though.

I look forward to sell the M210 to finance one more Falcon.

Had similar experiences.
For next year, I am investing in an Alta X

Why is nothing perfect..?  If only Intel, IBM, NVidia, Google, and/or Amazon care about simulating what it takes to make the best drones w/ the latest super quantum computers.. it would start the revolution that computing would replace All jobs, and the world could end by an asteroid, supervolcano, and/or other acts of God as people are supposed to work otherwise balance wouldn't be kept and chaos would occur due to no money and logistics making it possible for people to eat and such.  In the future, people would be growing up with no religion.  The Godless generations could ruin the world or make it better.  No one truly knows, but the hints and clues exist that we shouldn't be oblivious to.  Everyone we meet and see is going with the flow for now, and those who are making it are doing fine and could continue doing fine until the end of time, but not everyone would be as fortunate.  As state-of-the-art observers, we/you should be foreseeing what no one else can see w/ less, but there is only so much that can be done.  Anyone who believes otherwise is in denial or does not have enough information or at least correct information.

Does anyone have the custom camera entries for the DJI Zenmuse X4S?

Still trying to get this thing on point to accomplish my Oblique mission.  Just picked up an X4S, but (and I should have guessed) not supported in DJI Pilot! Go figure.  No issues though ... I can just add it as a "Custom Camera" ... right.  Well, that would be true of I could get DJI to answer me on the Custom Camera settings.  Lots of folks comment that the Mechanical shutter on the X4S makes it the camera of choice, but I've been searching for over a week on the details with no luck!

Keep this post going if you have any further setback, or heaven forbid, a solution provided by DJI.

I suggest they will release a firmware update that may solve the trigger issue or release a sensor that is truly compatible for mapping.

We have 15 P4RTKs within the business and while we have them working well now, it was a struggle initially.  I hope to replace all our P4RTKs with M210 V2 RTKs when their hours are up due to the more robust nature of the M210 system.  However, until they get the mapping sorted we will be holding off.

Good luck.

Isn't it funny how the Skydio 2 can incorporate the Nvidia Jetson TX2 (DJI Manifold 2) into their simple consumer solution and you can't get effective RTK information out of a DJI Ground Station.
TerraView RangePro X8 was just introduced, which takes DJI Payloads. Wonder if they'll release data.
Do we have to add Emlid Solutions to Matrice 210 RTK uav's just to get the data we wanted in the first place?

I do agree with all the comments of AerobotRoi. I have posted more o less the same issues and tried to get a logical answer from DJI. The answers given by DJI, even in this forum, are a total impudence. I still remember the one concerning the use of two transmitters and the D-RTK-2: It is normal 8-). As normal as buying a 7 series BMW and in the case you activate ABS and ESP, you cannot turn on EDB or MP3 player 8-): only two devices work at the same time. I am an Electronics Engineer and I have the dark feeling that it is a hardware problem concerning the architecture of the receivers and Occusync 2, and new firmware releases are not solving anything. No answer in this regard from by DJI, as all of you imagine.
I am still right now checking almost all the issued described above.

I can confirm XT2 prevents the operation with D-RTK-2. I have not checked yet the metadata of the captured images since we are still developing an algorithm for automatic detection of hot spots in solar facilities. Probably, everything described by AerobotRoy will be my next nightmare 8-).

There is something that is working for me. The modem connected to Cristalsky allows me to have differential corrections when connected to a public GNNS service, even with XT2 installed. I imagine you have also been at the verge of a nervous breakdown to find a modem that works. As far as I know, only 2 Huawey models, one of them discontinued work with Cristalsky.

I have just checked the operation of the modem with XT2 installed today. I have made a manual flight after drawing the legs of the M210 in an EPS bed and asked for an RTH. Landing took place around 5 cm of the marks when RTK was FIX from the Ntrip Caster. If you do the same using the D-RTK-2 base, the landing might take place in the middle of Times of Square. By the way, I am writing from the north of Spain 8-).

In our case, even this huge success does not solve the problem. We need to work in Morocco and Kuwait. No GNNS network is available. We have thought of solving this issue by creating a virtual NTRIP Caster using a multi-band Base and Rover from Emlid.

I had to return a Cristalsky because of the known flickering problem and the second one is going to be used to cook fried eggs at home. D-TRANS does not work with M210. At  least it has been impossible for me. My conclusion is that it only works for drones that use DJIGO-4, as a flight app, which is really nice, since you have to remove the cards from the XT2 to download photos and videos. We will finally program our own App using mobile-SDK to manage this.


By the way, Z30 also failed. This camera weighs a ton and mine did not do the initialization sequence. To be precise, it dit it randomly. Therefore, to work, after saying a prayer, we used to drink a coffee turning the M210 on and off, until it decided to do the complete rotations and send an image to the transmitter.

If anybody wants to share experiences, or cry all together, here you are my email: manes@uniovi.es
Best Regards from the North of Spain and Good Luck! We need it 8-)
Manés

Hey All,

We have just purchased a M210 RTK V2 for mapping.  While the feedback on this forum has definitely got me concerned, we are having issues with the P4RTK while operating in harsh, dusty, high temperature environments.

We also have a regulatory requirement to increase redundant safety systems as they become available.  The dual batteries of the M210, combined with the feedback we have about parachutes being developed for the RTK version of this system (not possible with the P4RTK) help us justify to our stakeholders that these systems are as safe as can be.

We have purchased the X7, 24mm for the mechanical shutter.  We are hoping to get similar capture areas as the P4RTK, by flying higher and slower to account for the slow trigger speed.  And hold out hope that the trigger speed issue will be addressed by DJI.

We do not do much inspection work, so the inability to have the Dual Controllers working while operating the D-RTK should not be much of an issue for us.  While I agree it is a complete failure of design for this enterprise solution.

I will be taking it out for its first flight tomorrow, with some real world trials set for next week.  So will keep you posted.  Will be trialling it on both the Crystal Sky (DJI Pilot) and Ipad (GS Pro).

Happy to share any successes or failures we encounter.

Cheers,
Tim

DJI4Survey Posted at 1-14 14:57
Hey All,

We have just purchased a M210 RTK V2 for mapping.  While the feedback on this forum has definitely got me concerned, we are having issues with the P4RTK while operating in harsh, dusty, high temperature environments.

Looking forward to hearing about your progress 8-)!
We are just now trying to find out the absolute precisión of the D-RTK2. I mean the accuracy of the point it defines for itself. Preliminary results look terrible. By the way, if you are trying to upload the mission to the M210 and you get "Abnormal GPS" (Public GNNS Connection) or "No RTK Data Fusion" (D-RTK2 base), pretty common and known problem that will not allow you to flight, just go manually, hover and with the M210 Hovering load the mission. It sounds stupid but it works 8-). Of course, no news from DJI about this issue.

To say the M210 RTK v2 is not for enterprise is a gross misstatement. Compared to what? Manned Aircraft? We are in an industry that is constantly pushing the envelope and there's a reason DJI holds 80% of the market. You can't compare it to everything you wished it would be in an imaginary world of non-existent products. All things considered, this is a product that is far above nearly any other multrotor out there, and I've flown most of them. Many of the issues you mention in the original post are not issues, they are feature requests. Yeah DJI has issues. Yeah they use early adopting customers as beta testers. so what. Cry me a river. Compared to anything else out there this is the best workhorse UAS out there, and I would challenge you to find another multirotor for even double the price that compares.

M210 RTK V2 and X7 owner here - just reading this thread with interest, as although the system is new to me, really starting to see it's limitations for survey.
Couple of quick questions ;

Does anyone know the cycle / interval time of the Zenmuse X7 when shooting in jpeg ?

Has anyone used DJI groundstation software to plan with ? Does it support the X7 and does it have the ability to fly grids and circular flight plans ?

Thanks !

They are making a Matrice 300 which could solve all these issues?

SaintDan Posted at 2-25 00:04
M210 RTK V2 and X7 owner here - just reading this thread with interest, as although the system is new to me, really starting to see it's limitations for survey.
Couple of quick questions ;

Use DJI GS Pilot w/ an iPad.

SaintDan Posted at 2-25 00:04
M210 RTK V2 and X7 owner here - just reading this thread with interest, as although the system is new to me, really starting to see it's limitations for survey.
Couple of quick questions ;

DJI Groundstation Pro supports the M210RTK V2 with the X7 and various lenses. (24mm and 35mm and custom created lenses)
There is an issue with the interval setting and the X7 - start with a 5 sec interval and reduce if possible.

With GSPro you can fly grids, double grids, and circular missions.

You can also try some other mapping apps like Drondeploy (no RTK support)

Keule Posted at 2-25 04:09
DJI Groundstation Pro supports the M210RTK V2 with the X7 and various lenses. (24mm and 35mm and custom created lenses)
There is an issue with the interval setting and the X7 - start with a 5 sec interval and reduce if possible.

Thanks for your advice.

After trying a few alternatives, it seems i'm going to have to go with GS Pro. Having only ground tested a few alternatives, I've just realised I do need RTK support for all flight plans.

Drone Harmony Pro seems the best of the bunch for my configuration as an alternative, but the weather is stopping any air trials at the moment !

Thanks !

Keule Posted at 2-25 04:09
DJI Groundstation Pro supports the M210RTK V2 with the X7 and various lenses. (24mm and 35mm and custom created lenses)
There is an issue with the interval setting and the X7 - start with a 5 sec interval and reduce if possible.

Hi,

So just to clarify - do you run GS Pro on an iPad hooked up to the Cendance-S of the m210RTKv2?

And does it work with the XT2? Or is this just an x7 solution?

thanks,

Hey All,

Have had this unit for a month now and essentially it will sit in the cupboard until DJI can sort out the following issues with the system:

- X7 write interval. - The X7 write speed is way too slow.  Essentially it means that we have to fly much slower than we should have to when completing mapping issues.  Which extends capture times considerably.  It also 'freezes' the DJI Pilot interface when writing, which essentially means you have no telemetry feedback when it is writing.  Excruciatingly slow and dangerous.
- RTK compatibility for the 16mm lens - Or endorsement of a wider third party lens for survey mapping.  Mapping at 400ft AGL (regulatory restriction) with the X7 and the 24mm lens results in a longer flight time and more images (longer processing time) than the P4RTK.  While you do get a better GSD, you should have the option to use a wider lens to increase efficiency when a lower GSD is acceptable.
- Blurry/Pixelated images.  This might just be me, but the images that come out of the X7 24mm lens config are quite poor in comparison to the P4RTK.  Not sharp at all.  Still processes out into a model, but raises concerns about the accuracy.

Am very concerned that with the release of the M300 slated for the next month or so, that these issues will not get addressed and we will be left with a lemon.

patiam Posted at 2019-10-21 11:03
X7 is definitely not the best sensor choice for mapping but the statement about the M210 V2 RTK "not being for mapping" is rubbish.

Sure looks like DJI is advertising the x7 as the mapping solution with this drone.