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DJI please clarify FCC/CE models re. vacation in different regions
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SeenMavic
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Hello!

While I currently have the Mini on preorder (CE Version), I found out about the two different models and that they don't carry the hardware to change the transmission, so FCC will be FCC and CE will stay CE.

So that does not only mean that you are not allowed to fly the FCC version in Europe (CE) but also that you are not allowed to bring it into european country as it is lacking a CE sign - is that correct or does the FCC version feature a CE sign (for whatever reason)?

Worst thing that could happen is that customs will confiscate the FCC Mavic Mini at the border.

And what about the other way - i will travel to the US next year and would love to bring my (CE) Mavic Mini - do the same rules apply at customs that could result in confiscating the CE Mavic Mini?

I really think you, DJI, should mention this in the other threads - you only talk about that it might not be allowed to FLY, no word that it could be confiscated! Guess what will happen if the first customers will experience that their Mavic Mini will stay at customs and be destroyed... gonna be a nice facebook/twitter story.

To make it even more diffcult: a lot of cruises start from Miami, going to different caribbean islands, some of the them belong to Europe (e.g. Guadeloupe, Curacao etc.) which means I can use my CE Mavic Mini there... but to get on the cruise, I have to come into the US... got it?


DJI, please prove me wrong - but if this is true, I have to cancel my CE Mavic Mini... but buying one in US doesn't help either. VERY BAD decision on two models and bad communication as of now.

Regards,
SeenM




11-4 02:22
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Montfrooij
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The perfect travel drone might not be that.
I really don't get this one (if it is true of course)
11-4 02:46
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DAFlys
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They list two seperate models for the regions and have confrmed the same in other threads.
Model MT1SS5
5.8 GHz: <30 dBm (FCC); <28 dBm (SRRC)

Model MT1SD25
2.4 GHz: <19 dBm (MIC/CE)
5.8 GHz: <14 dBm (CE)
11-4 02:47
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DAFlys
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Also if you fly FCC in non FCC country you just get a warning in the software.
11-4 02:48
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JJB*
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If the CE Mini reaches half of the distance as advertised (2.4 GHz = 2000 mtr)  without loosing signal, than 1000 meters for such a "OMG where is my Mini flying ????!!" drone not too bad.
11-4 02:56
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Nebuchadnezzar
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the switch from CE to FCC ll depend of the App you use ( Mods)
11-4 03:17
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Montfrooij
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DAFlys Posted at 11-4 02:47
They list two seperate models for the regions and have confrmed the same in other threads.
Model MT1SS5
5.8 GHz:

Yeah, but what happens if you take a FCC model to CE area?
11-4 03:22
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Montfrooij
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DAFlys Posted at 11-4 02:48
Also if you fly FCC in non FCC country you just get a warning in the software.

But will that mean your FCC model can't fly in CE area?
11-4 03:22
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Montfrooij
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Nebuchadnezzar Posted at 11-4 03:17
the switch from CE to FCC ll depend of the App you use ( Mods)

Not with the Mini!
It is baked into the hardware of the drone (as far as we know now)
11-4 03:23
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Montfrooij
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JJB* Posted at 11-4 02:56
If the CE Mini reaches half of the distance as advertised (2.4 GHz = 2000 mtr)  without loosing signal, than 1000 meters for such a "OMG where is my Mini flying ????!!" drone not too bad.

Very true
But since this is the perfect travel drone, it is strange that the choice for CE / FCC is baked into the hardware of the drone.
11-4 03:24
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Nebuchadnezzar
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Montfrooij Posted at 11-4 03:24
Very true
But since this is the perfect travel drone, it is strange that the choice for CE / FCC is baked into the hardware of the drone.

Not sure about this , we ll see
11-4 03:25
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DAFlys
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Montfrooij Posted at 11-4 03:22
But will that mean your FCC model can't fly in CE area?

It will just warn you in the go fly app.  You can still fly just not legally.
11-4 03:26
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DAFlys
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Montfrooij Posted at 11-4 03:23
Not with the Mini!
It is baked into the hardware of the drone (as far as we know now)

Yes, it appears with the mini they fit different radios depending on the region, possibly to keep weight down.
11-4 03:27
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DAFlys
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Montfrooij Posted at 11-4 03:24
Very true
But since this is the perfect travel drone, it is strange that the choice for CE / FCC is baked into the hardware of the drone.

They probably were trying to save every gram the could and by separating the radio component they could save a couple more grams.
11-4 03:27
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SeenMavic
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I would sacrifice 6 grams of the battery for having both transmission frequencies to be able to take the Mini with me on vacation as this is my main purpose for a drone.
But once more, it is not about different power output or legal issues flying FCC in CE but about the risk of loosing your drone at the border/customs because of missing FCC / CE logo and/or paperwork. People from Europe will never be able to take their Mini to the US and vice versa without risking it being confiscated. This is what I want to have DJI clarified. I read of a few kickstarter campaigns where a lot of europeans donated and the final product was held at customs because it had no CE logo on it.
And if you travel from US to Europe, it can always happen that customs check your luggage. The do not only look for cigarettes and alcohol but also for electronic devices as they are normally cheaper in the US. And yes, they also check the CE logo!
11-4 03:34
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Montfrooij
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Nebuchadnezzar Posted at 11-4 03:25
Not sure about this , we ll see

Nobody is sure yet.
But that is what the super moderators are telling!
11-4 03:48
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S-e-ven
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Don't worry:
As long you not a commercial importer, there is "just" the thing with "no CE sign, can't fly in CE-areas" or "no FCC-sign, can't be flown in FCC-areas" your problem.

But there will no one confiscate your private drone and destroy it. Unless in countries, where drones are a "not to bring into" - piece, which will be handled as this, never mind if you have or have not any CE/FCC sticker on it.

But you have a point:
"The" CE-Mavic-Mini version could legally be flown in FCC areas, as long they would be approved for FCC (SRRC!)  countries, since they are still UNDER the max radio power of FCC (SRRC!), it would be really nice to hear from DJI, if the CE-Version IS a worldwide travel drone.

Or if really all DJI Minis are regional limited drones, only!
Which would point out, that the Mini is NOT the travel drone, everyone thought it would be!
11-4 03:48
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Montfrooij
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DAFlys Posted at 11-4 03:26
It will just warn you in the go fly app.  You can still fly just not legally.

Hmmm.
Ok, so it leaves for a (illegal) fallback method.
11-4 03:48
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Montfrooij
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DAFlys Posted at 11-4 03:27
Yes, it appears with the mini they fit different radios depending on the region, possibly to keep weight down.

I have read this is just a 4gr difference.
So that is probably not the reason.
I really doubt if this is true.
But we'll have to find out.
11-4 03:49
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Montfrooij
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DAFlys Posted at 11-4 03:27
They probably were trying to save every gram the could and by separating the radio component they could save a couple more grams.

From what I have read, the difference is just 4 grams.
Because the radio is the same, it just needs some small piece of hardware extra.
Not sure of course, I'm not an engineer.
11-4 03:49
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Montfrooij
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SeenMavic Posted at 11-4 03:34
I would sacrifice 6 grams of the battery for having both transmission frequencies to be able to take the Mini with me on vacation as this is my main purpose for a drone.
But once more, it is not about different power output or legal issues flying FCC in CE but about the risk of loosing your drone at the border/customs because of missing FCC / CE logo and/or paperwork. People from Europe will never be able to take their Mini to the US and vice versa without risking it being confiscated. This is what I want to have DJI clarified. I read of a few kickstarter campaigns where a lot of europeans donated and the final product was held at customs because it had no CE logo on it.
And if you travel from US to Europe, it can always happen that customs check your luggage. The do not only look for cigarettes and alcohol but also for electronic devices as they are normally cheaper in the US. And yes, they also check the CE logo!

Yeah, I totally get that!
11-4 03:50
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S-e-ven
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DAFlys Posted at 11-4 02:48
Also if you fly FCC in non FCC country you just get a warning in the software.

Which will void your insurance, in case you have one and need one, to fly there!
it is not like with other DJI's, where it is not to spot from outside, FCC settings or CE-settings, after a chrash. In case it happened close by,  in real VLOS, most likely no insurance will look at it. Now you have given the serial to the insurance, for a FCC drone, and have chrashed that one in a CE area.
Even vice versa can be a "you were not legally allowed to fly (in FCC with your CE-piece), so we do not cover the accident!"

11-4 03:52
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S-e-ven
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JJB* Posted at 11-4 02:56
If the CE Mini reaches half of the distance as advertised (2.4 GHz = 2000 mtr)  without loosing signal, than 1000 meters for such a "OMG where is my Mini flying ????!!" drone not too bad.

I have found a video, eh, yersterday, before yesterday(?), a distance test, after 500m and 30m max height! (in CE), the feed was gone.
Can't point to it, don't really know how I found it, it was in german, I think.
And also the settings was to 2.4 (if I got that right, the app view and what the guy told the spectators), but:
A lot of red channels, somehow
Ah, I remember: Youtube search, Mavic mini test deutsch (because of CE-Mini!)
subtitles are working !

11-4 03:57
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S-e-ven
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DAFlys Posted at 11-4 03:27
Yes, it appears with the mini they fit different radios depending on the region, possibly to keep weight down.

Nope!
If it would be like that, the FCC drone would be UNDER the 249g, one radio less implemented! ;-)
Since the CE drone still has two radios, and is also just 249g, ....
11-4 04:06
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DAFlys
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S-e-ven Posted at 11-4 04:06
Nope!
If it would be like that, the FCC drone would be UNDER the 249g, one radio less implemented! ;-)
Since the CE drone still has two radios, and is also just 249g, ....

but they are lower power so it might be they still weigh less to split them than a more powerful fcc + ce radios.
11-4 04:10
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S-e-ven
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SeenMavic Posted at 11-4 03:34
I would sacrifice 6 grams of the battery for having both transmission frequencies to be able to take the Mini with me on vacation as this is my main purpose for a drone.
But once more, it is not about different power output or legal issues flying FCC in CE but about the risk of loosing your drone at the border/customs because of missing FCC / CE logo and/or paperwork. People from Europe will never be able to take their Mini to the US and vice versa without risking it being confiscated. This is what I want to have DJI clarified. I read of a few kickstarter campaigns where a lot of europeans donated and the final product was held at customs because it had no CE logo on it.
And if you travel from US to Europe, it can always happen that customs check your luggage. The do not only look for cigarettes and alcohol but also for electronic devices as they are normally cheaper in the US. And yes, they also check the CE logo!

Honestly, I have crossed MANY (airport) boarders, in the past 2 years. NOT at one, someone hass looked for CE or FCC. Even looking at it, they never checked on that. Because you are not/just temporarily importing it!
As long there is no "100% no drone into the country", you have maximum to worry about starting it in there.
IMHO!
11-4 04:11
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S-e-ven
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Montfrooij Posted at 11-4 03:49
I have read this is just a 4gr difference.
So that is probably not the reason.
I really doubt if this is true.

And they can manage for the "CE-Mini", so that is not a issue for the FCC-Mini.
Actually, the FCC Mini , is it 245g, only?
11-4 04:13
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DAFlys
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S-e-ven Posted at 11-4 03:52
Which will void your insurance, in case you have one and need one, to fly there!
it is not like with other DJI's, where it is not to spot from outside, FCC settings or CE-settings, after a chrash. In case it happened close buy,  ion real VLOS, most likely no insurance will look at it. Unless you have given the serial to the insurance, fir a FCC drone, and have chrashed that one in a CE area.
Even vice versa can be a "you were not legally allowed to fly (in FCC with your CE-piece), so we do not cover the accident!"

Thats a really good point, insurance will do anything they can to get out of coverage.
11-4 04:13
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Montfrooij
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S-e-ven Posted at 11-4 04:13
And they can manage for the "CE-Mini", so that is not a issue for the FCC-Mini.
Actually, the FCC Mini , is it 245g, only?

I don't know about that.
But somebody here wrote that the weight difference between a radio that could do both is 4 gr only.
11-4 04:15
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DAFlys
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S-e-ven Posted at 11-4 04:11
Honestly, I have crossed MANY (airport) boarders, in the past 2 years. NOT at one, someone hass looked for CE or FCC. Even looking at it, they never checked on that. Because you are not/just temporarily importing it!
As long there is no "100% no drone into the country", you have maximum to worry about starting it in there.
IMHO!

I've travelled internationally many times with my drone and its never been looked at once,  I think hand luggage vs posting is quite a different thing when it comes to customs checks.
11-4 04:15
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DAFlys
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Montfrooij Posted at 11-4 03:49
From what I have read, the difference is just 4 grams.
Because the radio is the same, it just needs some small piece of hardware extra.
Not sure of course, I'm not an engineer.

maybe a bigger heatsink.
11-4 04:16
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Montfrooij
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DAFlys Posted at 11-4 04:16
maybe a bigger heatsink.

Or maybe just another transistor or something.
11-4 04:22
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markusd1984
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The FCC model/remote seems to have the same hardware, just different firmware
(according to DJi’s application for FCC certification).


It doesn't make sense for the drone to differ in hardware, as it would be much more expensive to manufacture and both models are advertised with 249g!

Perhaps DJI got in trouble with the GPS software based switching mode and had to remove it (hence the reference to FCC not switching to CE mode but just displaying warning?).
Probably there will be a (known) workaround to unlock the physical capabilities, otherwise DJI would impact the long term sales too much with this limitation, especially for global travelers.

11-4 04:47
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DAFlys
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markusd1984 Posted at 11-4 04:47
The FCC model/remote seems to have the same hardware, just different firmware
(according to DJi’s application for FCC certification).
https://mavicpilots.com/attachments/424da7c0-8a87-48a4-9570-48698fd981ab-jpeg.84781/[/img]

Interesting information.  Here's hoping someone figures out a work around at some point,  and lets hope its as easy as the DJI FPV goggles.  
11-4 05:00
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Montfrooij
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markusd1984 Posted at 11-4 04:47
The FCC model/remote seems to have the same hardware, just different firmware
(according to DJi’s application for FCC certification).
https://mavicpilots.com/attachments/424da7c0-8a87-48a4-9570-48698fd981ab-jpeg.84781/[/img]

Interesting.
11-4 05:06
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S-e-ven
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markusd1984 Posted at 11-4 04:47
The FCC model/remote seems to have the same hardware, just different firmware
(according to DJi’s application for FCC certification).
https://mavicpilots.com/attachments/424da7c0-8a87-48a4-9570-48698fd981ab-jpeg.84781/[/img]

Has it?
If the bird just have 5.8 in FCC, why would the RC have 2.4, useless on top?
in case the RC has the same hardware, I would assume the same for the birds!
So who is going to strip a FCC AND a CE Bird/RC, to clear that up?

For me, it would be more a fw thing, how to switch that.
To much trouble, to get different parts, usually!
Much easier, to decide by firmware in the end.
More flexible: Oh, FCC is out, CE  demand is low (or vice versa ;-), so  change stickers and reflash fw

It would be really interesting, if the birds have just a CE or a FCC  cert.
Aren't there online databases available, to check the specs?
11-4 05:28
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Nidge
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DAFlys Posted at 11-4 04:13
Thats a really good point, insurance will do anything they can to get out of coverage.

Interesting observation and very pertinent.

Back in 2013/14, here in the UK, an RC model flyer found himself in serious trouble after he lost control of his model and it ended up being found within the grounds of a very sensitive area. The authorities began prosecution proceedings against him so being a member of the British Model Flying Association (BMFA) he tried to use their legal assistance service. However it was found that the RC equipment he was using was not certified for use in the UK so legal assistance was declined.

Nidge.
11-4 05:31
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SeenMavic
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Thanks markusd1984, very interesting that it is locked in firmware for the MT1SS5 (FCC) model.
Now we need the same paper for MT1SD25 (CE) model and I would be very interested a screenshot of the label on both models (to see what logo FCC/CE it has on it).

@S-e-ven thanks, do you have any source for that? If I can travel to the US, buy the Mavic Mini and bring it with me back to EU without CE and no problems that would be nice. And I do not talk about "customs not looking for CE sign" I want to be sure and have the law on my side rather than hoping customs don't care for it...
11-4 05:47
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JJB*
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Or is the Mini for both models the same and is only the RC the difference??
11-4 06:33
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maihem.rc
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S-e-ven Posted at 11-4 04:11
Honestly, I have crossed MANY (airport) boarders, in the past 2 years. NOT at one, someone hass looked for CE or FCC. Even looking at it, they never checked on that. Because you are not/just temporarily importing it!
As long there is no "100% no drone into the country", you have maximum to worry about starting it in there.
IMHO!

Agreed, I have been through the EU, US, and Mexico with my drone in carry on baggage and it has never even been questioned going through an airport or customs.  Also have carried it on a cruise to use in Mexico and no one even cared.  First time I was all worried about making sure the batteries were discharged and everything was in separate lipo bags with the contacts covered, now I don't even think about it...I leave everything charged and in the carry case that it all fits in.
11-4 06:36
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