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"unwanted" AutoLanding
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JJB*
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Hi,

I was curious if a unwanted AutoLanding could be initiated flying backwards....
Answer is YES.

See the video, flying low altitude above grass at 0.5 meter, forward and backward with a speed of approx 2 ms/s
Applied 100% stick down and  had to react quickly not to fly into the ground.

If AutoLanding protection is enabled (cannot be disabled on a Spark and MM), be carefull when you want to go lower.
Never apply 100% down (as in, uh  does not react on my command, so more stick down...), it will automatically enters an autolanding even with forward or backward speed!

cheers
JJB





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JJB*
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Dirty Bird Posted at 1-19 11:46
Why would anyone wind up in this situation unless they deliberately intended to crash?

well, at least 4 drones (last year on this forum) are lost because they flew low over water and wanted to fly even lower...
And if you not aware of this,  oops.  the only way to stop is 100% stick UP.

And if VPS height sensor is measuring low altitude (fog, of water drop to the sensor)  you can fly at 6 meters above water and enter an autolanding!!  if you do not know this behaviour ; a disaster.

But i fully agree with you, not too smart to fly at very low altitudes.

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JJB
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Dirty Bird Posted at 1-19 11:46
Why would anyone wind up in this situation unless they deliberately intended to crash?

Very simple ... if you want to fly deep ... really deep, maybe about 3 inches. I too have noticed the effect, that JJB has described, though only when flying backwards.
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JJB* Posted at 1-19 11:49
well, at least 4 drones (last year on this forum) are lost because they flew low over water and wanted to fly even lower...
And if you not aware of this,  oops.  the only way to stop is 100% stick UP.

Do you know from the 4 crashed drones whether the VPS sensors where taped or not ? I suppose not.
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It’s very strange that anyone would apply 100% throttle down, unless of course they wanted to land. The command from that distance is to land so I don’t see this as a problem, but it certainly is a mistake .
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JJB*
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jonny007 Posted at 1-19 12:18
Do you know from the 4 crashed drones whether the VPS sensors where taped or not ? I suppose not.

no, beacuse during flight there was VPS height indication.
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hallmark007 Posted at 1-19 12:19
It’s very strange that anyone would apply 100% throttle down, unless of course they wanted to land. The command from that distance is to land so I don’t see this as a problem, but it certainly is a mistake .

Not that strange, as you have said yourself in other postings.

if you fly at 10 meter and your VPS is measuring 0.5 (MM does not show this unfortunately) and you want to fly lower   and nothing happens, you give more input down.....

If craft enters an autolanding and you do not hear the audio or watch the device screen, you are not aware of the autolandiung in progress.     doing nothing means loosing your craft.

It happend to a few forum members, loosing a craft this way

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JJB
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JJB*
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Dirty Bird Posted at 1-19 12:34
The Mini, like other DJI models, will drop to within a few feet of the ground, then wait for a command before landing.  It interprets a continued down command to signal go ahead & land.  If you are right at that threshold, & continue pulling down, the bird is responding the way it is designed.  This is normally only 2-3 feet above the ground.  The final descent happens very quickly & I'm not even sure up stick will abort it at that point?

That's not to say there might not be some odd situation where VPS gets fooled into thinking you are right above the ground.  If you were flying low over trees, etc..  Not sure how fog would do this as the Mini has ultrasonic VPS sensors?  Personally I've never experienced any VPS failures or misinterpretations from any of my birds.

Yes  MM like other DJI drones with autolanding protection enabled will autoland after short moment 100 stick down, and you can cancel the autolanding only by pulling UP to 100%   as i did 4 times in the video.

Ofcourse this is ment to be used hovering low alt (0.5 meter), 100% down to enter slow landing.

But when VPS measuring the wrong altitude, it can mess up the situation.

cheers
JJB



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hallmark007
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JJB* Posted at 1-19 12:38
Not that strange, as you have said yourself in other postings.

if you fly at 10 meter and your VPS is measuring 0.5 (MM does not show this unfortunately) and you want to fly lower   and nothing happens, you give more input down.....

I’m not really getting this, you demonstrated a totally different thing , craft was 0.5 from the ground not 5/10 m what you showed is pretty normal as well as being a mistake, I would like to see it from 10m to 5m , I’m not sure why even at 5m you would hold down left stick 100% unless you made a mistake. I will try and see if this is happening from such heights .
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Dirty Bird Posted at 1-19 12:34
The Mini, like other DJI models, will drop to within a few feet of the ground, then wait for a command before landing.  It interprets a continued down command to signal go ahead & land.  If you are right at that threshold, & continue pulling down, the bird is responding the way it is designed.  This is normally only 2-3 feet above the ground.  The final descent happens very quickly & I'm not even sure up stick will abort it at that point?

That's not to say there might not be some odd situation where VPS gets fooled into thinking you are right above the ground.  If you were flying low over trees, etc..  Not sure how fog would do this as the Mini has ultrasonic VPS sensors?  Personally I've never experienced any VPS failures or misinterpretations from any of my birds.

Yes the Mini is responding like it was designed, but the design is straight on stupid. Why would anyone want or need to land while the craft is moving?
In a drone that's marketed to newbies and casuals, it's pretty short sighted (or clever business) to design anything to activate from a simple 100% stick input, since most newbies tend to use the controls on-off style so they're always inputting 100% on every axis until they got the hang of it...
Easy fix here would be to only enter autolanding from a standstill hover or from a situation where only the throttle stick is held down 100% for XX seconds.

BTW Mini has infrared VPS sensors only, so it can be affected by visual obstructions like dense fog.
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Good information to know JJB.  Thanks for testing and reporting.
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Miixxa Posted at 1-19 14:10
Yes the Mini is responding like it was designed, but the design is straight on stupid. Why would anyone want or need to land while the craft is moving?
In a drone that's marketed to newbies and casuals, it's pretty short sighted (or clever business) to design anything to activate from a simple 100% stick input, since most newbies tend to use the controls on-off style so they're always inputting 100% on every axis until they got the hang of it...
Easy fix here would be to only enter autolanding from a standstill hover or from a situation where only the throttle stick is held down 100% for XX seconds.

Maybe they should set newbie sticks to 20% for a few months until they are potty trained ;+)...
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Dirty Bird Posted at 1-19 15:50
Maybe it's an emergency situation?  Maybe the wind is ready to carry it out over the ocean to a certain loss & you just need to get it on the ground immediately?  

You say it's stupid, but someone in the situation above would argue it's stupid he was trying to land & the drone refused to follow his command.  There is no reason to be pulling 100% own on the stick unless your goal is to reduce altitude quickly or land.  Do rookie drivers turn the wheel 100%?

If it's an emergency there's the EPS for that. If it's ready to autoland from 0,5m it can certainly drop to the ground also IF IT'S AN EMERGENCY.

There's plenty of reasons to pull down 100%, especially on a filming drone. Disabling autolanding while moving would prevent several user error and false height sensor induced autolandings. I can also see benefit on disabling stick activated autolanding completely and just have it on the app. Dji could easily make it as an option in the app. The system now is just the same kind of stupidity as many modern car's emergency braking assist which will shut down the car and activate the hazard lights if the car thinks driver braked too hard and too quickly...

And yeahyeah, you payed more for primitive drones and learned to fly better right? I've flown enough rc choppers back in the day they cost diamonds and your left kidney, to know all about it ;)
I just get irritated when badly designed safety features actually end up causing more harm in specific scenarios. Stick induced autolanding with unreliable height sensors is a recipe for disaster if you want to fly low or over something...
Mini is still a new product with growing pains, so it's only a good thing if people come up with ideas of how to make it better in the future, don't you think?

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JJB* Posted at 1-19 11:49
well, at least 4 drones (last year on this forum) are lost because they flew low over water and wanted to fly even lower...
And if you not aware of this,  oops.  the only way to stop is 100% stick UP.

Thanks for this demo. It reinforces my opinion that there is still some work remainng for the designers of the Mini. I have noticed some very strange and inconsistent behavior also, typical of new designs. Once my Mini video did a full very rapid 90 degree swing to the right and back while hovering in still air with no action at the remote in much less than one second. Interestingly, It was very noticable on the video, but not in the log files. I do feel like a beta tester ;-)
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hallmark007 Posted at 1-19 12:52
I’m not really getting this, you demonstrated a totally different thing , craft was 0.5 from the ground not 5/10 m what you showed is pretty normal as well as being a mistake, I would like to see it from 10m to 5m , I’m not sure why even at 5m you would hold down left stick 100% unless you made a mistake. I will try and see if this is happening from such heights .

oke, try to explain it for you.

I cannot demonstrate this as my MM works normal, so i need to fly at 0.5 meter to show how a autolanding works,  applying 100% stick for a while. Hover of forward or backward speed does not matter.

In case of a VPS height false measuring height; one fly`s at 10 meters above water, wants to get lower but drone does not react. So more down stick, into autolanding wich most users are not aware of this, and drone descends and descends ....with no stick input   craft is stll going down!

Another example, in South Africa person flying high alt, in clouds. Want to go down, but enters a autolanding at high height. Took drone "ages" to reach the ground, just enough battery to keep the drone flying.  (if only he had pull up 100%  for short moment, drone was in normal mode again).

More examples on this forum of a unwanted autolanding to be found.

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JJB
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JJB*
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GaryDoug Posted at 1-19 20:25
Thanks for this demo. It reinforces my opinion that there is still some work remainng for the designers of the Mini. I have noticed some very strange and inconsistent behavior also, typical of new designs. Once my Mini video did a full very rapid 90 degree swing to the right and back while hovering in still air with no action at the remote in much less than one second. Interestingly, It was very noticable on the video, but not in the log files. I do feel like a beta tester ;-)

well, this unwanted autolanding behaviour is not only for the MM, my Spark and MA have this as well.

Only when you disable AutoLanding protection (not possible om MM and Spark) you can use 100% stick down flying low without autolanding.

BUT not good idea to fly really low ; too less reaction time for  the 'pilot' if things goes wrong.
Sometimes i fly low, have to accept my loss than  when it goes wrong...

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JJB
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hallmark007
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JJB* Posted at 1-19 23:29
oke, try to explain it for you.

I cannot demonstrate this as my MM works normal, so i need to fly at 0.5 meter to show how a autolanding works,  applying 100% stick for a while. Hover of forward or backward speed does not matter.

It’s been around for a long time since Mavic pro, you could just switch between sport and p mode to halt landing or using the pause button, I’m not sure if Mavic mini has a pause button or it shares it with Rth button, can it be sorted ?
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JJB* Posted at 1-19 23:29
oke, try to explain it for you.

I cannot demonstrate this as my MM works normal, so i need to fly at 0.5 meter to show how a autolanding works,  applying 100% stick for a while. Hover of forward or backward speed does not matter.

This is what happened to me the other day while flying in dense fog, I actually saw before the video where the guy tries to come down and Mini got stuck in clouds taking ages to descend.

For me the good thing is I was close and had plenty of battery left but did the same and it took a very long time to come down, not sure if it was the fog, or condensation in the sensors.
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hallmark007 Posted at 1-20 03:24
It’s been around for a long time since Mavic pro, you could just switch between sport and p mode to halt landing or using the pause button, I’m not sure if Mavic mini has a pause button or it shares it with Rth button, can it be sorted ?


yes  the MM pause button is the rth as well.
Problem is that if you are not aware of this, you will land your craft and not knowing it.

Guess the experienced flyers know this, but for sure not the beginners.
It is afaik not in the manual.

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JJB
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JJB*
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InspektorGadjet Posted at 1-20 03:55
This is what happened to me the other day while flying in dense fog, I actually saw before the video where the guy tries to come down and Mini got stuck in clouds taking ages to descend.

For me the good thing is I was close and had plenty of battery left but did the same and it took a very long time to come down, not sure if it was the fog, or condensation in the sensors.

oke,  next time 100% up  and you are out of the landing mode.

And if it keep going into autolanding (fog ect), disable LandingProtection (not on MM and Spark)

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JJB
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JJB* Posted at 1-20 03:59
oke,  next time 100% up  and you are out of the landing mode.

And if it keep going into autolanding (fog ect), disable LandingProtection (not on MM and Spark)

I only have the MM to test, but will do more tests in fog since is so awesome ¨
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Hello  Are your aircraft and remote control firmware V1.0.4 or V1.0.3? You can try to downgrade V1.0.3. My friends and I are both using V1.0.3 version.
Friends low altitude flight test  You can notice 12:22 and 12:26 he lowered his height too fast. I use FRAP to check it. Thank you free software.  
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Jacky Wu Posted at 1-20 23:24
Hello  Are your aircraft and remote control firmware V1.0.4 or V1.0.3? You can try to downgrade V1.0.3. My friends and I are both using V1.0.3 version.
Friends low altitude flight test  You can notice 12:22 and 12:26 he lowered his height too fast. I use FRAP to check it. Thank you free software.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_xfFfJjHrw&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR3UxItqjvO6Rz5HfWRZ_xHHGlX11tCS_4J09lhyb32UljuVAT1Y0CG4Du0

Hi Jacky    nice flying that low, risky but good recovery when almost flying into the groud!

Have fun with FRAP.

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JJB
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Jacky Wu
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JJB* Posted at 1-20 23:34
Hi Jacky    nice flying that low, risky but good recovery when almost flying into the groud!

Have fun with FRAP.

Hi  JJB
You can try MINI and remote firmware V1.0.3
DJI FLY APP I currently test V1.0.6  
You can try this way   

        Jacky
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JJB*
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Jacky Wu Posted at 1-21 05:50
Hi  JJB
You can try MINI and remote firmware V1.0.3
DJI FLY APP I currently test V1.0.6  

thanks, but i am happy with .6

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JJB
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Jacky Wu
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JJB* Posted at 1-21 05:53
thanks, but i am happy with .6

cheers

I'm sorry you misunderstood
You said that V1.0.6 is the DJI FLY APP
I said the MINI and remote control firmware use V1.0.3
I just learned the use of ALT VPS again  
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JJB* Posted at 1-21 05:53
thanks, but i am happy with .6

cheers

Friends low altitude flight test You can notice 12:22 and 12:26 he lowered his height too fast
But he had less than 0.5 meters and did not trigger an automatic landing.


I don't speak English well
I try to share with friends and related test experience for your reference

   Jacky
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Jacky Wu Posted at 1-21 06:46
Friends low altitude flight test You can notice 12:22 and 12:26 he lowered his height too fast
But he had less than 0.5 meters and did not trigger an automatic landing.
[view_image]

Hi Jacky,

Check the data in the your red boxes.

Autolanding :  a) fly at 0.5 meters AND b) Down stick for some moments.

In you example no 100% down was selected flying at 0.5 meter.

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JJB
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Jacky Wu
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JJB* Posted at 1-21 06:55
Hi Jacky,

Check the data in the your red boxes.

I saw your test at 0.5 meters in height and triggered an automatic landing

I'll try it the other day

Jacky
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Not only this un-wanted auto-landing might happen into water but also during descent when approaching or being into a heavy fog bank. Something to be aware of...

It would be interesting to test landing the drone at altitude > homepoint without VPS (taped)  to see what happens to establish some correlation with IMU and possible loss of VPS data from fog. The difference being during fog accident the VPS is fooled but IMU still reporting vertical descent speed. .
It's important to notice you should never input full stick down during uncertain conditions like low above water or in a fog bank.



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GaryDoug Posted at 1-19 20:25
Thanks for this demo. It reinforces my opinion that there is still some work remainng for the designers of the Mini. I have noticed some very strange and inconsistent behavior also, typical of new designs. Once my Mini video did a full very rapid 90 degree swing to the right and back while hovering in still air with no action at the remote in much less than one second. Interestingly, It was very noticable on the video, but not in the log files. I do feel like a beta tester ;-)

like this ?:
https://forum.dji.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=205362
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What do you think about another procedure for Autolanding ?
I think pressing short the RTH Button during lowest possible Height, would be good.
The Autolanding in Water issue is really scary and flying deep over Water is a lot to nice to have this.
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Christian U Posted at 1-22 04:16
What do you think about another procedure for Autolanding ?
I think pressing short the RTH Button during lowest possible Height, would be good.
The Autolanding in Water issue is really scary and flying deep over Water is a lot to nice to have this.

Well, DJI is not really interested in this unwanted autolanding....(asked them few times at least to think about it)

The idea about  autolanding protection is to let the craft hover and when the user thinks it OKE, 100% stick down for short moment and craft will autoland.
So disable this when with any speed, and do ask in the app if user wants to land.

But your idea is mayby better, just one short press if craft is in "autolanding condition". still disable with any speed.

cheers
JJB

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Christian U Posted at 1-22 04:13
like this ?:
https://forum.dji.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=205362

Yes, very similar. I see now that I reviewed it, it was only 30-40 degrees not 90 as I mistakenly stated. I tacked it on to your other topic.
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JJB* Posted at 1-21 06:55
Hi Jacky,

Check the data in the your red boxes.

Hi JJB
I just intentionally tested it at a low altitude and found that it was deliberately fast and RC Down. Just do n’t 100% it wo n’t land automatically (I use Japanese hands)
I tested with RC Down in a straight flight and he still kept it at 0.5 meters
Aircraft and remote control firmware V1.0.3
DJI FLY APP V1.0.6

       Jacky
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Jacky Wu Posted at 1-22 19:52
Hi JJB
I just intentionally tested it at a low altitude and found that it was deliberately fast and RC Down. Just do n’t 100% it wo n’t land automatically (I use Japanese hands)
I tested with RC Down in a straight flight and he still kept it at 0.5 meters

Hi,

do not understand your writing, in the screenshot you see that the height is getting lower and lower,
100% stick down at 0.5 meter = autolanding = going actually down.

BTW in FRAP you have an option to set the used RC mode. (default = 2 but changeable)

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JJB
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JJB* Posted at 1-22 23:42
Hi,

do not understand your writing, in the screenshot you see that the height is getting lower and lower,

Hi JJB  
I recently tested it with a friend and found that it is better to suggest that DJI can turn off the visual settings. Often, I will encounter an error judgment and automatically land
Especially below 10-15 meters, flying on the water surface or other obstacles, it is often misjudged and will land
Within 10-15 meters, only the throttle stick going down 100% will trigger automatic landing

PS: Someone stuck the bottom vision with tape so that it would not be misjudged and land automatically. Takeoff and landing need to be picked up by hand Haha

Jacky
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Jacky Wu Posted at 1-29 00:44
Hi JJB  
I recently tested it with a friend and found that it is better to suggest that DJI can turn off the visual settings. Often, I will encounter an error judgment and automatically land
Especially below 10-15 meters, flying on the water surface or other obstacles, it is often misjudged and will land

Hi Jacky,

Something wrong with your drone....

Autolanding does only gets activated with 100% down for short moment flying low at 0.5 meters.
But if the sensor measures wrong ; yes  than it can be on any height flying.

So if you really want to fly low above water, it is an option to disable the AutoLandingProtection.

BUT do not forget to enable it again,  otherwise yoiu might get a hard manually landing!
(or indeed : hand landon)

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JJB
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JJB* Posted at 1-29 02:37
Hi Jacky,

Something wrong with your drone....

Hi JJB
I'm fine, intentionally tested  
Mavic Mini disable the AutoLanding Protection
Where can I set this feature

Jacky
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Jacky Wu Posted at 1-29 04:58
Hi JJB
I'm fine, intentionally tested  
Mavic Mini disable the AutoLanding Protection

oops   in general for drones with this option you can disable it.

But indeed not for Spark and MM (as said in post #1)

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JJB
2020-1-29
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