Please select Into the mobile phone version | Continue to access the computer ver.
Remote ID - FAA Fail. What it means and how YOU can help!
11421 30 2-2 11:48
Uploading and Loding Picture ...(0/1)
o(^-^)o
QuadcopterGuide
Captain
Flight distance : 773251 ft
  • >>>
Germany
Offline

Hey all,

perhaps the most important Video to the drone/quadcopter community was published on our channel. Please check it out:


There are timecodes in the description if you don't have time to watch the whole thing.

Your comments are appreciated. Plus points for comments on Youtube.
Cheers,
2-2 11:48
Use props
DJI Stephen
Super Moderator

Offline

Hello and good day Felix. Thank you for sharing this information with us and for creating this video. This video will be a very big help to all our DJI co pilots. Well explained and thank you for your valued support.
2-2 12:25
Use props
QuadcopterGuide
Captain
Flight distance : 773251 ft
  • >>>
Germany
Offline

DJI Stephen Posted at 2-2 12:25
Hello and good day Felix. Thank you for sharing this information with us and for creating this video. This video will be a very big help to all our DJI co pilots. Well explained and thank you for your valued support.

Thank you Stephen, it is perhaps the most important topic this year. If possible please put some more visibility on this. Thank you!
2-2 12:40
Use props
DJI Stephen
Super Moderator

Offline

QuadcopterGuide Posted at 2-2 12:40
Thank you Stephen, it is perhaps the most important topic this year. If possible please put some more visibility on this. Thank you!

You are very much welcome Felix. I will forward this thread to the designated DJI department for further visibility. Again thank you for your valued support.
2-2 12:56
Use props
QuadcopterGuide
Captain
Flight distance : 773251 ft
  • >>>
Germany
Offline

DJI Stephen Posted at 2-2 12:56
You are very much welcome Felix. I will forward this thread to the designated DJI department for further visibility. Again thank you for your valued support.

that would be awesome! Thank you! I hope this message gets out to as many as possible.
2-2 13:17
Use props
DJI Stephen
Super Moderator

Offline

QuadcopterGuide Posted at 2-2 13:17
that would be awesome! Thank you! I hope this message gets out to as many as possible.

It is always my pleasure Felix. Please stay safe always and keep on flying.
2-2 13:57
Use props
AntDX316
Captain
Flight distance : 2982907 ft
  • >>>
United States
Offline

Remote ID should be essential when in flying in NFZ areas such as airports for inspections.  They already have LAANC to get approval for the flights instead of sending in a proposal.
2-3 04:05
Use props
NightThunder
Second Officer
Flight distance : 71427 ft
United States
Offline

Old news. The video is based on the old NPRM. On 1/23/2020 significant and IMO game changer changes were made to the NPRM. You can find it here. Even though the publication date was not changed, the body of the NPRM HAS been changed.
2-3 11:04
Use props
QuadcopterGuide
Captain
Flight distance : 773251 ft
  • >>>
Germany
Offline

NightThunder Posted at 2-3 11:04
Old news. The video is based on the old NPRM. On 1/23/2020 significant and IMO game changer changes were made to the NPRM. You can find it here. Even though the publication date was not changed, the body of the NPRM HAS been changed.

Hey NightThunder,

how can the FAA change a document without noting any of the changes? Either I missed something or it's the same document. Can you show one difference?
2-4 00:19
Use props
NightThunder
Second Officer
Flight distance : 71427 ft
United States
Offline

QuadcopterGuide Posted at 2-4 00:19
Hey NightThunder,

how can the FAA change a document without noting any of the changes? Either I missed something or it's the same document. Can you show one difference?

I'll show more
From the Table of contents:
II. PROHIBITION AGAINST THE USE OF ADS-B OUT AND TRANSPONDERS

At 89.110 in the Table of Contents I grabbed this:

If the internet is unavailable at takeoff, or if during the flight, the unmanned aircraft can no longer transmit through an internet connection to a Remote ID USS, the UAS would have to broadcast the message elements directly from the unmanned aircraft from takeoff to landing.

The bolded section allows for flights in areas which may not have remote capability. The original proposal did not have that exemption thereby limiting flight activity in areas with no internet to 400'!

There were many at the time of the proposal that thought internet connectivity is required for ALL UAS flights. That you could not even take off if there was no internet. There was also talk of having to use ADS-B for transmitting which would require a hardware change to most if not all drones. That is now gone.

These changes plus more are now part of the NPRM. What I cannot prove is that this was NOT in the original NPRM or in the original overview as I don't have copies of them. However I can prove that there was and still is a lot of misinformation going around. It is for that reason I posted the link to the NPRM.

2-4 11:40
Use props
NightThunder
Second Officer
Flight distance : 71427 ft
United States
Offline

I should also mention I need to go back to the video at the start of the thread and watch it in it's entirety. There may be NO misinformation in the video. I should have looked at it first.
I'll be back.
2-4 11:48
Use props
HedgeTrimmer
Captain
United States
Offline

NightThunder Posted at 2-4 11:40
I'll show more
From the Table of contents:
II. PROHIBITION AGAINST THE USE OF ADS-B OUT AND TRANSPONDERS

Having read some of "Input" FAA received prior to FAA writing proposed rule making for public comment, we would have been better off had some of "Input" been lost.  FAA needed to hear from we "little people" far more than those with special interests and grandiose ideas.  Still can't believe some of suggestions, like - pilot's SmartDevice relaying live flight information via a must have internet connection to flight data aggregators (paid for by drone pilots), who would then make it info available to airports, control centers, other pilots, etc.  Somebody looking to make money off FAA's implemented regualation on Remote ID, put in that suggestion...  

We "little people" need to keep making polite and professional comments to FAA to ensure FAA sticks with their original limited proposed regulation on "Remote ID" being transmitted in secure (or private) manner to FAA & Federal Law Enforcement.  
2-4 14:42
Use props
QuadcopterGuide
Captain
Flight distance : 773251 ft
  • >>>
Germany
Offline

HedgeTrimmer Posted at 2-4 14:42
Having read some of "Input" FAA received prior to FAA writing proposed rule making for public comment, we would have been better off had some of "Input" been lost.  FAA needed to hear from we "little people" far more than those with special interests and grandiose ideas.  Still can't believe some of suggestions, like - pilot's SmartDevice relaying live flight information via a must have internet connection to flight data aggregators (paid for by drone pilots), who would then make it info available to airports, control centers, other pilots, etc.  Somebody looking to make money off FAA's implemented regualation on Remote ID, put in that suggestion...  

We "little people" need to keep making polite and professional comments to FAA to ensure FAA sticks with their original limited proposed regulation on "Remote ID" being transmitted in secure (or private) manner to FAA & Federal Law Enforcement.

Hey HedgeTrimmer,

I fully support the idea to get a working solution in place for us the "little guys". However in the current NPRM it states as mentioned in the video, that all people in public will have access to the data especially the location of the operator using a free to use platform available for smartphones.

Having the data only available for FAA & Law Enforcement would be better, but still not the best solution. This would be as someone else mentioned, like having a GPS transmitter on your car and every second of every drive gets streamed to the police. Would you then automatically get tickets sent to your house once you go 1mph over the speed limit?
2-4 23:42
Use props
QuadcopterGuide
Captain
Flight distance : 773251 ft
  • >>>
Germany
Offline

NightThunder Posted at 2-4 11:40
I'll show more
From the Table of contents:
II. PROHIBITION AGAINST THE USE OF ADS-B OUT AND TRANSPONDERS

hm great find. I wonder If i personally read that in the NPRM or I read it elsewhere. While that's good news, it still doesn't change the fact that this whole proposal goes waaaay to far. I hope a Mavic 3 or 4 won't cost an extra $2-3K due to all the federal overhead required and the hardware.. Don't forget about the monthly fees. I just don't see many people continuing this great hobby sadly..
2-4 23:46
Use props
Montfrooij
Captain
Flight distance : 1809849 ft
Netherlands
Offline

Good video!
2-5 06:17
Use props
HedgeTrimmer
Captain
United States
Offline

QuadcopterGuide Posted at 2-4 23:42
Hey HedgeTrimmer,

I fully support the idea to get a working solution in place for us the "little guys". However in the current NPRM it states as mentioned in the video, that all people in public will have access to the data especially the location of the operator using a free to use platform available for smartphones.

"Would you then automatically get tickets sent to your house once you go 1mph over the speed limit?"

Always a possibility.

Plan to send in another comment in a few days.  Been separating out comments to keep them focused and small.
2-5 07:55
Use props
NightThunder
Second Officer
Flight distance : 71427 ft
United States
Offline

QuadcopterGuide Posted at 2-4 23:46
hm great find. I wonder If i personally read that in the NPRM or I read it elsewhere. While that's good news, it still doesn't change the fact that this whole proposal goes waaaay to far. I hope a Mavic 3 or 4 won't cost an extra $2-3K due to all the federal overhead required and the hardware.. Don't forget about the monthly fees. I just don't see many people continuing this great hobby sadly..

Yes, the proposal does go "waaaay to far". I went to the FPVFC site and found the document from which most of the video is based on. I am not going to nit pick the document as all or most of it is correct. Also, I am now aware that the NPRM has NOT changed, only that there are misconceptions about the NPRM that seem to be ubiquitous in comments and YouTube videos about the NPRM have not changed. For example"

A misconception that is prevalent is that you ALWAYS need an internet connection to fly under Standard Remote ID. That is not true. Broadcact only is allowed if no internet is available. To me, no internet required is the solution as almost everyone would then be able to fly under Standard Remote.

All existing drones will become obsolete.
This is the one that scared me the most. WTF. However, that too is not necessarily true. As an example is most (all?) of the DJI fleet. DJI drones have existing hardware and infrastructure that should be able to support RID with software updates. Same may be true for many other drones. Of course this makes RID hackable as drone operators would have to accept the updates but what is the FAA going after? Ivory tower solutions or high compliance but workable solutions. (Obviuosly ivory tower but they should be disabused of that notion).

The FPVFC group posits that all drones will be made obsolete. I get it now. All drones that do not have at least a minimum of GPS capability will be obsolete unless you are willing to fly in a FRIA exclusively which the FAA is looking to grandfather out!!! UGLY! An entire and vibrant hobby gone!

So,  that said how can we make this work.
1. Get rid of the internet connection requirement and use broadcast only.
2. Get rid of built in "tamper proof" (allows for retro fit).
3. Get rid of "Session ID" as we would no longer need a USS to communicate with.

If this is done then I wonder if a simple and light weight attachment and be made for retro fits that broadcasts the RID packet. I ran across a company that makes ADS-B transceivers that weigh ab out 25 grams. Surely someone can make a similar transmitter for broadcasting in the WIFI frequency ranges.
2-5 15:25
Use props
QuadcopterGuide
Captain
Flight distance : 773251 ft
  • >>>
Germany
Offline


Thanks Montfrooij!
2-8 00:05
Use props
QuadcopterGuide
Captain
Flight distance : 773251 ft
  • >>>
Germany
Offline

NightThunder Posted at 2-5 15:25
Yes, the proposal does go "waaaay to far". I went to the FPVFC site and found the document from which most of the video is based on. I am not going to nit pick the document as all or most of it is correct. Also, I am now aware that the NPRM has NOT changed, only that there are misconceptions about the NPRM that seem to be ubiquitous in comments and YouTube videos about the NPRM have not changed. For example"

A misconception that is prevalent is that you ALWAYS need an internet connection to fly under Standard Remote ID. That is not true. Broadcact only is allowed if no internet is available. To me, no internet required is the solution as almost everyone would then be able to fly under Standard Remote.

yea, we need a few things removed. Because otherwise only certified FAA quads will be approved for standard ID. So you will never be able to build anything. Ridiculous.
2-8 00:06
Use props
Montfrooij
Captain
Flight distance : 1809849 ft
Netherlands
Offline


You're welcome!
2-8 04:13
Use props
HedgeTrimmer
Captain
United States
Offline

Food for thought on comments to FAA (copied from another post)

The following is an example of what is likely to get tossed:
"Here is a copy/paste statement the AMA has written for people to send to the FAA via the comment section of the new proposal-"
Followed by lengthy paste.  


Quick scan of most recent 50 comments is a mixed bag.  Some comments have good points and are well written.  Some not so much.
Believe any comments that essentially come down to "I disagree", without providing solid argument as to why will be ignored.

Think comments which point out issues or flaws with FAA's Proposed Remote ID, show FAA's process was done incorrectly or mistakes were made getting to this point, or show FAA's Proposal to be counter to U.S.'s prinicples on Freedoms and Rights has best chance of being taken seriously.

Regardless - We need more Comments!
2-11 23:15
Use props
HedgeTrimmer
Captain
United States
Offline

NightThunder Posted at 2-5 15:25
Yes, the proposal does go "waaaay to far". I went to the FPVFC site and found the document from which most of the video is based on. I am not going to nit pick the document as all or most of it is correct. Also, I am now aware that the NPRM has NOT changed, only that there are misconceptions about the NPRM that seem to be ubiquitous in comments and YouTube videos about the NPRM have not changed. For example"

A misconception that is prevalent is that you ALWAYS need an internet connection to fly under Standard Remote ID. That is not true. Broadcact only is allowed if no internet is available. To me, no internet required is the solution as almost everyone would then be able to fly under Standard Remote.

So,  that said how can we make this work.
1. Get rid of the internet connection requirement and use broadcast only.

Highly agree!


Overall, the Internet Connection requirement would be dangerous, since it could give a false sense of safety.  No data about any UAVs in area, then it must be safe to fly.  Completely ignores issue of Cellar Data being un-reliable, sometimes even when sitting near providers own cell tower.


Requiring live streaming of flight information via requried Internet Connection to one of several data wharehouses for collection and aggregation as part of Remote ID; is begging for data mining by companies involved or Big brother.  There is a risk of hackers getting into one of data wharehouses and downloading personal information.  Realizing they will have your Name, Address, Phone number, FAA ID, and Credit Card info - all needed for tracking and billing.  Everything needed for Identiy Theft.


2-16 21:37
Use props
SPIKE_151
First Officer
Flight distance : 69767 ft
United Kingdom
Offline

HedgeTrimmer Posted at 2-16 21:37
So,  that said how can we make this work.
1. Get rid of the internet connection requirement and use broadcast only.

Surely this would infringe the GDPR data law
2-18 08:03
Use props
HedgeTrimmer
Captain
United States
Offline

SPIKE_151 Posted at 2-18 08:03
Surely this would infringe the GDPR data law

Not sure about GDPR data law, being law applies to E.U.  No idea whether EASA laws would supersede GDPR or reverse or court battle.

In U.S. GDPR data law would not apply.   
2-18 09:07
Use props
Richard Hopkins
lvl.3
Flight distance : 720518 ft
United States
Offline

Best way to help is to comment on the #NRPM on the FAA site. I commented already Airplanes and FPV drones should be excluded from Remote ID. And all the rest should be Broadcasting only with the internet as back up, should be kept private and is only available to FAA personnel and law enforcement also be shared with air traffic management so we could see each other and know that someone’s in the area or coming our way so we could get out of there way. This is my opinion I made a long comment how it affects me This is what everyone has to do and now don’t wait!!!! Quadcopterguide Thanks for the video explained everything very good!! You got my subscription! (I posted on your channel too)
2-18 10:10
Use props
QuadcopterGuide
Captain
Flight distance : 773251 ft
  • >>>
Germany
Offline

Richard Hopkins Posted at 2-18 10:10
Best way to help is to comment on the #NRPM on the FAA site. I commented already Airplanes and FPV drones should be excluded from Remote ID. And all the rest should be Broadcasting only with the internet as back up, should be kept private and is only available to FAA personnel and law enforcement also be shared with air traffic management so we could see each other and know that someone’s in the area or coming our way so we could get out of there way. This is my opinion I made a long comment how it affects me This is what everyone has to do and now don’t wait!!!! Quadcopterguide Thanks for the video explained everything very good!! You got my subscription! (I posted on your channel too)

Hey Richard,

thanks for taking the time to comment on this thread as well. Glad to see you engaged in the community!
2-21 14:25
Use props
QuadcopterGuide
Captain
Flight distance : 773251 ft
  • >>>
Germany
Offline

HedgeTrimmer Posted at 2-11 23:15
Food for thought on comments to FAA (copied from another post)

The following is an example of what is likely to get tossed:

I agree with you HedgeTrimmer, all of the copy and pastes, (AMA ones) will be counted as 1 really since its just spam of the same thing over and over...
2-26 07:13
Use props
QuadcopterGuide
Captain
Flight distance : 773251 ft
  • >>>
Germany
Offline

Just posted my comments to the FAA Remote ID NPRM:


3 days left to comment!
2-28 11:47
Use props
QuadcopterGuide
Captain
Flight distance : 773251 ft
  • >>>
Germany
Offline

Thank you all for your comments and the great discussion. Let's see what the FAA does next...
3-4 02:19
Use props
NightThunder
Second Officer
Flight distance : 71427 ft
United States
Offline

Hey QuadcopterGuide!


I watched your last video. It is truly a masterpiece. You have educated me on the FPV and custom built UAS problems with the NPRM. I agree with every thing you said in the video and hopefully the FAA will listen to you and others that have the same view. Thankyou for this thread and happy flying!
3-5 10:52
Use props
QuadcopterGuide
Captain
Flight distance : 773251 ft
  • >>>
Germany
Offline

NightThunder Posted at 3-5 10:52
Hey QuadcopterGuide!


Thanks NightThunder, appreciate you watching!
3-9 07:40
Use props
Advanced
You need to log in before you can reply Login | Register now

Credit Rules