Labroides Posted at 2-18 00:42
Leading to question as to why MM does not respond to full throttle as reported.

A firmware bug as suggested by several Pilots.   A bug that is only hit upon when MM is commanded from full speed forward to backwards.  Not backwards to forwards or side to side.

Having watched video...

Agree with guy in video - others suffering problem need to test replacing existing blade pairs with new blade pairs.  Making sure to keep blades as they were paired.

Would be great for all MM owners - if guy is on to possible cause.  Being solution is simple, and no need to send MM's in for retrofitting.  Or wait and wait on DJI diagnosis or firmware fix.

It was good guy in video could re-introduce problem, although not as severe, when putting original blades back on.  Going with original blades no longer being paired, and severity of problem being reduce - coupled to warning of keeping blades in pairs, it might point to a failure during drone manufacturing to keep original blades paired.  Still puzzling as to the why on going back, luck of the draw on blades. being paired differently, resulting in reduction in severity of problem?

As puzzling is why new blades eliminated the problem.  (Unless related to aforementioned possible drone manufacturing failure.)  Assuming original blades were properly paired...

Different batch run of blades from those used during original assembly vs. those sent as spares?   

What are blades differences - age of, weight variances, imbalance, strength and flexibility, hole-size for mounting screws (wobble), deformed as part of storage/shipment?

Be helpful if some of people having serious drop problems and MM initially ignoring throttle up (ascend) could duplicate OP's testing.  Then post their MM's flight logs during testing.

Again cheers to OP for un-paid work done.

Labroides Posted at 2-18 02:15
It's starting to look like something that firmware wouldn't fix.
Look at the video I linked above.

In fact, it must be bypassable. If the drone crashes it's better because of me than the software

Labroides Posted at 2-18 00:42
Leading to question as to why MM does not respond to full throttle as reported.

A firmware bug as suggested by several Pilots.   A bug that is only hit upon when MM is commanded from full speed forward to backwards.  Not backwards to forwards or side to side.

I told you those ones not responding to stick up had other issues. For example, issues that made the sticks useless? I watched the video you shared long ago. He had ESC error and came to the conclusion that changing props did the trick in a follow-up video. I never had an ESC error ever. I tested for scenarios where stick up can work. Different problem. How many more times do I have to tell you this? You don't have to show up at my post and talk smack about how my testing is not testing YOUR issue. Of course, it does not. It was designed to test a different issue where sticks actually work.
Let me make this real clear.
Your issue: Uncommanded descent with irresponsive mini.
My issue: Uncommanded descent with responsive mini.
I do not test your issue as I cannot replicate it. My sticks always worked. My issue is not distracting from the investigation of your issue as long as you do not mix them up or make people mix them up. You are welcome to post your own report about your issue. I am sure people actually want help with that too and your experience is very valuable there. I simply do not have the experience with irresponsive mini.

hallmark007 Posted at 2-18 01:23
It usually is the simplest things, I wonder how many noticed that warning, I didn’t but it makes perfect sense, good find .
A lot of testing could have been avoided if one just read instructions.

ESC error shows up on the screen and flight log. It should be hard to miss. However, that warning is not an exclusive present in all uncommanded descents.

I do agree that reading the manual can avoid a lot of testing. DJI did most of the tests for us to make the manual. But the manual won't be too detailed sometimes and demonstrating it can put people into perspectives.

Just to get this out of the way first. I don't get paid to do these tests in my spare time.
Again, I do not get paid to do this and some individuals on this forum are just too blunt to notice.

Really??
You don't get paid?
That's incredible
I guess that means you're just like everyone else on the forum .... except that you paste in a lot more graphs.

Guorium Posted at 2-18 04:27
I told you those ones not responding to stick up had other issues. For example, issues that made the sticks useless? I watched the video you shared long ago. He had ESC error and came to the conclusion that changing props did the trick in a follow-up video. I never had an ESC error ever. I tested for scenarios where stick up can work. Different problem. How many more times do I have to tell you this? You don't have to show up at my post and talk smack about how my testing is not testing YOUR issue. Of course, it does not. It was designed to test a different issue where sticks actually work.
Let me make this real clear.
Your issue: Uncommanded descent with irresponsive mini.

I told you those ones not responding to stick up had other issues. For example, issues that made the sticks useless?
I never had an ESC error ever.
You never lost your Mini because of the problem either

How many more times do I have to tell you this? You don't have to show up at my post and talk smack about how my testing is not testing YOUR issue.
Hmm ... now where was it I first encountered you again?
Oh yes ... It was in post #33 of this thread: https://forum.dji.com/thread-209023-1-1.html
... where you barged in saying that a case of uncommanded descent with non-responsive throttle was just like your incident, and within a short time you were dishing out abuse.

Let me make this real clear.
Your issue: Uncommanded descent with irresponsive mini.
Let me make this real clear.
The biggest issue for Mini flyers is the one I've been discussing and copping abuse from you about.
It's an issue that has caused the loss of dozens of Mavic Minis.

I do not test your issue as I cannot replicate it. My sticks always worked. My issue is not distracting from the investigation of your issue as long as you do not mix them up or make people mix them up.

Funny ... you seemed to think your issue was similar.
Who's mixing issues?
Oh yeah ... it's that guy that thinks drones can't fly into the wind.

Guorium Posted at 2-18 05:00
ESC error shows up on the screen and flight log. It should be hard to miss. However, that warning is not an exclusive present in all uncommanded descents.

I do agree that reading the manual can avoid a lot of testing. DJI did most of the tests for us to make the manual. But the manual won't be too detailed sometimes and demonstrating it can put people into perspectives.

It’s very plausible that props might be playing a part in all of this, so testing this shouldn’t be very difficult, and watching the video is quite convincing, not sure if any will come forward and say they changed props , I did see a comment by one particular guy who said he changed props prior to flight where his craft descended to the ground, I didn’t read the manual myself, and to be honest can’t remember how or even when I put props on, but I’ve had no problems with craft suddenly descending.

I also think that reports of full power not being applied is looking more like this could be a prop problem.

Guorium Posted at 2-18 05:00
ESC error shows up on the screen and flight log. It should be hard to miss. However, that warning is not an exclusive present in all uncommanded descents.

I do agree that reading the manual can avoid a lot of testing. DJI did most of the tests for us to make the manual. But the manual won't be too detailed sometimes and demonstrating it can put people into perspectives.

I think when testing and trying such an elaborate test posting many charts can be more than confusing, especially since charts show no definitive results, no fix for the problem and no advice on what to do, then surely it’s pertinent to ask “what’s the point” I think what gets lost around here is most users are looking for help to be basically legible and understandably easy to comprehend, and contrary to what you might think charts might prove something, but if they can’t be interpreted by those looking for answers, you might be better off printing them out and sticking them to the wall for all the use they serve.

People around here are asking questions about stuff they can’t understand, filling them with more over the top nonsense will not help their problems.
Charts are great without correct easily understandable interpretation there of no use to anyone except to a few that aren’t looking for any help, further adding to this some ridiculous interpretations further confuses everything for everyone.

The real problem here was undoubtedly some craft completely involuntarily landing while flying forward, not slight up and down not miscalculation by barometres or vps , but the real problem got lost in the mire of a whole lot of stuff that had nothing to do with what was the most serious problem.

Testing is great and for some they enjoy doing it, but it’s of little use if it gives no definitive answers, in fact it can become a waste of time .

I do not have the time to do tests, but if I lose the drone because the software is going to hell I get angry

Renato61 Posted at 2-18 07:22
I do not have the time to do tests, but if I lose the drone because the software is going to hell I get angry

It’s very rare if at all software causes drone to crash, and if drone crashes as a result of a malfunction then you are covered by warranty.

hallmark007 Posted at 2-18 07:30
It’s very rare if at all software causes drone to crash, and if drone crashes as a result of a malfunction then you are covered by warranty.

If you can prove it and if you find the broken drone

Renato61 Posted at 2-18 07:42
If you can prove it and if you find the broken drone

You don’t need to prove but yes it does help if you can find it .

Wow!

Excellent and detailed report.

Thanks for taking the time. I esp like the breakdown pictures you posted.

Well done!
=C=

Guorium Posted at 2-18 04:27
I told you those ones not responding to stick up had other issues. For example, issues that made the sticks useless? I watched the video you shared long ago. He had ESC error and came to the conclusion that changing props did the trick in a follow-up video. I never had an ESC error ever. I tested for scenarios where stick up can work. Different problem. How many more times do I have to tell you this? You don't have to show up at my post and talk smack about how my testing is not testing YOUR issue. Of course, it does not. It was designed to test a different issue where sticks actually work.
Let me make this real clear.
Your issue: Uncommanded descent with irresponsive mini.

#1 - "Uncommanded descent with irresponsive mini."
#2 - "Uncommanded descent with responsive mini."

Both situations are initiated by same problem?   But in first situation an additional problem is causing MM to not respond to pilots Ascend command (Throttle increase).  Along with throwing up Error messages (ESC).


Example:  Air speed of drone (ground speed + wind speed) in forward direction is causing MM's barometer to give invalid altimter reading as a result slight increase in internal pressure.

In situation #2, MM is responsive to pilots Ascend command.  
In situation #1, MM is irresponsive (sluggish?) to pilots Ascend command because of:

a) Original prop blades were not kept paired at factory during manufacturing

b) Defective Blades used during manufacturing of drone vs. blades shipped as spares.

c) Blades are wearing out at screw mount points, resulting in blades wobbling up/down or twisting (rotating) under torque.

"a" would not fit with pilot in video's experiences - He was not initially (first weeks of flight) seeing the problem.  
"c" would fit with pilot in video saying - ln looking back at first weeks of his MM's flight logs, shows signs of forth coming problem.  "b" would also fit, if Defective blades became worse over time.

Renato61 Posted at 2-18 07:42
If you can prove it and if you find the broken drone

Rare to get downed by faulty software and without the drone recovered DJI might give you a discount if you are lucky.

HedgeTrimmer Posted at 2-18 09:49
#1 - "Uncommanded descent with irresponsive mini."
#2 - "Uncommanded descent with responsive mini."

Cannot definitely say both descents are caused by the same problem. Uncommanded descent is just a symptom. Many things can make it happen. But I suspect the fact sticks don't work in Labrodies issue make the descent probably caused by other reasons. Irresponsive is not sluggish. It means no reaction to user command at all.

I red here in a DJI reply that the prop's label on the top indicate what mold it came out of. The molds are made so a pair out of the same mold is always balanced. So if the label matches within a pair they should work fine.

Labroides Posted at 2-18 05:24
I told you those ones not responding to stick up had other issues. For example, issues that made the sticks useless?
I never had an ESC error ever.
You never lost your Mini because of the problem either

Yeah blah blah blah. Just more yapping and passive-aggressive snarkiness from you. You cannot logically make sense so I suggest keep quiet til you can, or you probably will head down the same path as the other experienced captain hallmark007 did. Ask him how he was silenced for 5 days. You will learn something.
For an example of having a constructive discussion, see HedgeTrimmer's responses. You need to learn to discuss things without having an attitude, the attitude jerks tend to develop after some experience gained. Some might call that complacency. Someday I may come out and correct my comments in the past. The likes of you would never because your ego is bigger than anything else.

Guorium Posted at 2-18 18:33
Yeah blah blah blah. Just more yapping and passive-aggressive snarkiness from you. You cannot logically make sense so I suggest keep quiet til you can, or you probably will head down the same path as the other experienced captain hallmark007 did. Ask him how he was silenced for 5 days. You will learn something.
For an example of having a constructive discussion, see HedgeTrimmer's responses. You need to learn to discuss things without having an attitude, the attitude jerks tend to develop after some experience gained. Some might call that complacency. Someday I may come out and correct my comments in the past. The likes of you would never because your ego is bigger than anything else.

I'm having trouble making sense of what you write?
Is English your first language?

hallmark007 Posted at 2-18 05:50
I think when testing and trying such an elaborate test posting many charts can be more than confusing, especially since charts show no definitive results, no fix for the problem and no advice on what to do, then surely it’s pertinent to ask “what’s the point” I think what gets lost around here is most users are looking for help to be basically legible and understandably easy to comprehend, and contrary to what you might think charts might prove something, but if they can’t be interpreted by those looking for answers, you might be better off printing them out and sticking them to the wall for all the use they serve.

People around here are asking questions about stuff they can’t understand, filling them with more over the top nonsense will not help their problems.

Maybe. Hard to test props or anything when no one can reliably replicate uncommanded descent not responding to sticks.

I prepared the discussions and conclusions parts for in-depth description of the annotated charts and what they mean in terms of the descent problem. It is for those who want to know what is going on. For those who just want to know about what to do, I prepared the TLDR at the end. The answer is quite definitive with my report in terms of what to do on the users part.

Labroides Posted at 2-18 18:47
I'm having trouble making sense of what you write?
Is English your first language?

Don't worry about me. Obviously not yours.
How idiotic is it after numerous exchanges of words you suddenly decide that you cannot understand my writing? You have been an eye-opening experience for people on this forum. But this comedic gold getting old. So bye bye troll.

Guorium Posted at 2-18 19:03
Don't worry about me. Obviously not yours.
How idiotic is it after numerous exchanges of words you suddenly decide that you cannot understand my writing? You have been an eye-opening experience for people on this forum. But this comedic gold getting old. So bye bye troll.

How idiotic is it after numerous exchanges of words you suddenly decide that you cannot understand my writing?
I was specifically referring to your post #58.
It's very hard to make any sense of it, all that comes through is the aggression and bullying.
The rest is incomprehensible.

Labroides Posted at 2-18 19:30
How idiotic is it after numerous exchanges of words you suddenly decide that you cannot understand my writing?
I was specifically referring to your post #58.
It's very hard to make any sense of it, all that comes through is the aggression and bullying.

Yeah... You are doing exactly what hallmark007 did. Good luck. You will need it.

Guorium Posted at 2-18 18:27
Cannot definitely say both descents are caused by the same problem. Uncommanded descent is just a symptom. Many things can make it happen. But I suspect the fact sticks don't work in Labrodies issue make the descent probably caused by other reasons. Irresponsive is not sluggish. It means no reaction to user command at all.

I red here in a DJI reply that the prop's label on the top indicate what mold it came out of. The molds are made so a pair out of the same mold is always balanced. So if the label matches within a pair they should work fine.

"I red here in a DJI reply that the prop's label on the top indicate what mold it came out of."

Somebody's got better eyes than mine.  I would need to put them under stereo 10x-30x microscope!

Guorium Posted at 2-18 05:00
ESC error shows up on the screen and flight log. It should be hard to miss. However, that warning is not an exclusive present in all uncommanded descents.

I do agree that reading the manual can avoid a lot of testing. DJI did most of the tests for us to make the manual. But the manual won't be too detailed sometimes and demonstrating it can put people into perspectives.

My final words: Thank you for looking through this rather lengthy report. I hope this helps people out there. Please be critical to this report and let me know about anything you find suspicious.

TLDR: Flying low without VPS can be really risky especially when going fast! Keep your eyes peeled and go easy on the brake


Above is what you wrote, your TDLR “ flying low without VPS” this is not possible with Mavic mini , and if you meant flying low with VPs in sport can be risky, well that’s the same with all dji drones, and it’s explained in the manual.

So not sure what test proves, but the main problem here is those who are flying drones and they are descending and crashing, and advice for them should be clear, contact dji and arrange a case number or take a risk flying the drone.

Now in two posts you named me with your usual derogatory remarks about me, you’ve been around here a wet day and for some reason you perceive yourself as some kind of Judge of people, now you came to a thread of mine trying to post your usual diatribe about how much more than others you know, one thing I can say 100% was you were incredibly insulting telling me you’d put me in my place , telling me you knew so much more than me and how little I knew. I closed the thread because you were set on bringing it into disrepute.
You then ask others to be critical, but it seems criticism is a bridge to far for you.

It’s pretty simple , you latched on to an idea and refused to accept it could be anything else and spent your time aimlessly testing to come up with nothing except what is already in the manual.

But if you had of listened to the voice of experience you would soon have learned, 1/ the problems you were talking about were not all one, 2/ there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Now your fond of accusing others of being rude, and not cowering down to your level of conformity, but at the same time being completely ignorant to the insults and name calling the trolling you can muster up yourself, you seem to think your the forum vigilante and we all should kowtow to your ridiculous ideas.
So refrain from using my name to try push others around, it makes you sound daft and desperate .

Yes there are people around here who have experience and much of the time they come in for criticism simply because of that, so instead of babying others they tell it straight and much of the time this is what’s required, also those with much experience have helped many over the years of this forum as well as learning from others and working with many for one goal only.
You come here now and think you can push and shove others around to conform to your sycophantic idiocies and then try to brag about getting others banned, wake up and smell the roses.

hallmark007 Posted at 2-19 02:29
My final words: Thank you for looking through this rather lengthy report. I hope this helps people out there. Please be critical to this report and let me know about anything you find suspicious.

TLDR: Flying low without VPS can be really risky especially when going fast! Keep your eyes peeled and go easy on the brake

You got yourself banned. A number of times actually. I just showed people why you were banned. You really do get a kick out of confrontations and 'jail' times. Who I am to judge? I just really did not want anyone else to go down that path you went down when they start showing symptoms. If you feel unhappy about misusing your glorious name. I shall use "the old hallmark007", that ok with you?

Thanks for the extensive testing.

Swapping all of the blades on my Mini made a big difference it its performance.  Being at a bit over 5,000 feet elevation, and often flying indoors with the prop guards in place made the difference especially easy to notice.

We are probably talking about two different phenomena here.

But the issue I saw with the old blades installed could have very well resulted in some lost Minis because mine would fly normally until the battery was around half capacity, and then my Mini would descend, and no amount of up-stick could get it to rise.

Flying at my elevation and with the prop guards in place puts a lot of "load" on the Mini.  So while I was never flying in S mode, I was stressing the system.

Take that for whatever it's worth.  Clearly what I'm describing has nothing to do with the possible barometer issues described in the OP.  But both of these issues could combine to cause extra confusion and/or crashes.

Sigmo Posted at 2-19 05:54
Thanks for the extensive testing.

Swapping all of the blades on my Mini made a big difference it its performance.  Being at a bit over 5,000 feet elevation, and often flying indoors with the prop guards in place made the difference especially easy to notice.

Flying at my elevation and with the prop guards in place puts a lot of "load" on the Mini.  So while I was never flying in S mode, I was stressing the system.

You fly a Mini with propguards?
The Mini barely has enough power to lift itself or deal with a gentle breeze.
Lumbering it with the extra windage of propguards isn't a great strategy.

Sigmo Posted at 2-19 05:54
Thanks for the extensive testing.

Swapping all of the blades on my Mini made a big difference it its performance.  Being at a bit over 5,000 feet elevation, and often flying indoors with the prop guards in place made the difference especially easy to notice.

Yeah the mini barely lifts anything. I recall a test on youtube showed a mini barely lifting osmoaction camera (124g). From my visual experience, the performance on acceleration is not so different at 3500m, 2200, and sea-level (I took flights at the 3 altitudes). Only noticeable thing was that battery life severely shortened probably due to thin air and the low temperature high up.

I think the replacement props in the video fixed the ESC error which could have caused the landing for him. I did not have ESC error at all. WIth old props or new props. HedgeTrimmer did mention something interesting. The prop hole where the screw goes though may get enlarged and loosened over time from rubbing against the screw. Causing a shift in prop angle if heavy load is put on the drone (from wind or lifting weight). But yeah, lots of things can cause drops. DJI has some work to do.

Guorium Posted at 2-19 17:26
Yeah the mini barely lifts anything. I recall a test on youtube showed a mini barely lifting osmoaction camera (124g). From my visual experience, the performance on acceleration is not so different at 3500m, 2200, and sea-level (I took flights at the 3 altitudes). Only noticeable thing was that battery life severely shortened probably due to thin air and the low temperature high up.

I think the replacement props in the video fixed the ESC error which could have caused the landing for him. I did not have ESC error at all. WIth old props or new props. HedgeTrimmer did mention something interesting. The prop hole where the screw goes though may get enlarged and loosened over time from rubbing against the screw. Causing a shift in prop angle if heavy load is put on the drone (from wind or lifting weight). But yeah, lots of things can cause drops. DJI has some work to do.

I’d say it did a bit better than barely, in fact it wasn’t a problem at all and Osmo action 124g we’ll go pro 8 126g.