m80116 Posted at 2-20 11:46
So you think of being the utmost right but your data log shows otherwise.

You were flying during a yellow wind warning, at sea... something you should not have been doing in the first splace.

"Considering on how you were getting the ESC errors, the environment, the yellow wind warning it is highly likely even the propellers were in perfect shape. A sound waste of a perfectly working Mini."

The flightlog is loaded with ESC errors.  Count of 1,683 entries show True for "OSD.isNotEnoughForce".  Poor MM was struggling to it's demise.

Guorium Posted at 2-19 18:12
Probably not the wind. Airdata reported only 4mph there.

The OP's record does show a very very messed up ALT trace (yellow segments) as if the altimeter was experiencing a sudden shift in altitude. I do not think the mini can maneuver like that. Something in his drone was very wrong.

"Probably not the wind. Airdata reported only 4mph there."

Possible fine silica (from blowing sand) got into motor bearings?  Or damage from salt spray?

You forget, because you don't know the place, that the drone was in a gulf and from the video recorded on the smartphone it is evident that the wind at sea level was very low.
If it is possible that at 20/30 meters the wind was excessive, it is not clear why the drone 5 meters from the water did not maintain the altitude in order to allow me to land it on the beach.

For what I've observed the Mavic Mini tends to lose its ability to keep altitude before losing forward motion ability during ESC error conditions, and these are usually tied with flattened propellers or thin air (high altitude) or accessory usage (prop guards, other 3d party ones).
ESC errors are also obviously tied to Strong Wind warnings but... to be fair in that case I expected the MM losing forward motion before stalling down.

I am wondering if it could wash ashore anytime soon or if it already did, the bottom doens't seem very deep.

m80116 Posted at 2-21 08:23
@Labroides I suggest you take it easy and not personally should you decide to behave mature.

The MFA wasn't set for the environment and left there at 500m, as confirmed by the user. Did you check the log file or are you just using selective data to corroborate your ideas?

@Labroides I suggest you take it easy and not personally should you decide to behave mature.
I would suggest that you learn a lot more about drone flying before you push opinions that are irreleavnt or contrary to facts.

The MFA wasn't set for the environment and left there at 500m, as  confirmed by the user. Did you check the log file or are you just using  selective data to corroborate your ideas?
I check recorded flight data very thoroughly.
I also have been flying for six years and have a pretty good idea how these things work.
Your idea that having the max altitude limit set to 500m is illegal and inappropriate is completely wrong and completely irrelevant to the incident.

I am saddened for another MM loss but if we don't promote the idea that a  MM can't counter rafts of wind such as those at sea, during a yellow  wind warning and next to a raised plain we won't save not even a finger  of a user.
Despite your concern, the wind was not the issue that caused the loss of this drone.
It seems to have escaped you that the drone in this incident never went high and the problem was that it wouldn't climb at al when the pilot used the throttle.
If you want to find out what caused the loss of the drone read my post: https://forum.dji.com/forum.php? ... =209367&pid=2089991

I am almost certain an in-depth analysis of the .dat file would show how  maxed out was that poor Mini. I am sorry for the inability to lie  facing reality, may my discouraging words be takens as a cautionary  warning... to him and everyone including myself. MM has its limits and  one should be very well aware of them to avoid an even worse outcome.
And again, you really don't understand the issue.
Having your Mini fail to respond to throttle, is a fatal flaw in the Mini that DJI needs to fix.

m80116 Posted at 2-21 15:16
For what I've observed the Mavic Mini tends to lose its ability to keep altitude before losing forward motion ability during ESC error conditions, and these are usually tied with flattened propellers or thin air (high altitude) or accessory usage (prop guards, other 3d party ones).
ESC errors are also obviously tied to Strong Wind warnings but... to be fair in that case I expected the MM losing forward motion before stalling down.

ESC errors are also obviously tied to Strong Wind warnings but... to be fair in that case I expected the MM losing forward motion before stalling down.
A study of uncommanded descent incidents shows that they happen in any wind conditions.
Strong winds never cause a properly working drone to descend.

InspektorGadjet Posted at 2-20 01:32
Sorry for your loss and I really hope they issue a refund if it was a faulty device.

Be sure to point out that your battery cell voltages were WAY too low to be flying anywhere.

The percentage DOES NOT represent the actual voltage......for over 1/2 your flight, your cells were below 3.64 volts.    Nominal total voltage for your craft to work proper, is 7.4vdc..... you didn't have enough power to properly fly the AC.

I have now seen this same exact issue in 5 reported MM losses.   DON'T RELY ON YOUR PERCENTAGE.
At 96% your cell voltage should be over 4.05v/cell

Rely on known cell voltage.....anything less than 3.75v/cell you should be close to Home point and ready to land.

Randy

Pardon me if I am out of line here, being a rookie. But I wonder why the operators who lose a drone do not post a link to the full low-res video that is stored on the phone/tablet. Shouldn't that possibly add some value to the discussion? For example there is some difference of opinion about the wind speed. Wouldn't the video show that, especially since this was over water?

GaryDoug Posted at 2-21 20:11
Pardon me if I am out of line here, being a rookie. But I wonder why the operators who lose a drone do not post a link to the full low-res video that is stored on the phone/tablet. Shouldn't that possibly add some value to the discussion? For example there is some difference of opinion about the wind speed. Wouldn't the video show that, especially since this was over water?

Shouldn't that possibly add some value to the discussion?
Usually, the flight data is all that's needed, as it is in this case.

Labroides Posted at 2-21 20:47
Shouldn't that possibly add some value to the discussion?
Usually, the flight data is all that's needed, as it is in this case.

Does the flight data show the realtime wind speed and direction, not just a forecast?

rwynant V1 Posted at 2-21 18:51
Be sure to point out that your battery cell voltages were WAY too low to be flying anywhere.

The percentage DOES NOT represent the actual voltage......for over 1/2 your flight, your cells were below 3.64 volts.    Nominal total voltage for your craft to work proper, is 7.4vdc..... you didn't have enough power to properly fly the AC.

You say that many batteries, including mine purchased with the combo for less than 2 months, are junk?

Renato61 Posted at 2-22 08:45
You say that many batteries, including mine purchased with the combo for less than 2 months, are junk?

The best option is store battteries half-charged and charge them fresh for the flight. Fresh battery should have over 8 Volts. Lower voltage means that You have less power available (motors can reach lower RPMs) thus MM struggles to hover or fight the wind...

GaryDoug Posted at 2-22 06:52
Does the flight data show the realtime wind speed and direction, not just a forecast?

Your recorded flight data does not show any weather forecast information.
It does show how the drone is affected by whatever wind it is dealing with.

If I find a point in the flight where the drone is hovering with no joystick input and it's holding position properly, that indicates the wind was less than the max speed of teh drone.
If the drone is hovering with only very low tilt angle, that indicates the wind was calm or very light.
If the drone is being flown at full stick but making less than full-stick speed, that helps to work out wind speed.
Likewise if it's in hands-off RTH and flying less than 10 m/s (slower for the mini).

No... they're trying to say that when it went down it was really on the power limit the ESC is programmed to draw from a battery set (one battery pack).

For what I have seen in other analysis DJI already has a cautious approach at max-min battery level, you can top them up everytime as long as you don't leave them unused for months.

Despite the emerit. professor trying to convince you that you're victim of a fault, the uncommanded  descent happens quickly and is tied to a sudden stop or change of direction (wind) around the drone body, after which it can usually recover by itself and contrary to popular beliefs (probably) it doesn't generate any ESC errors because it's deeply tied to how the drone measures and interprets the air pressure. I've done my testing and also published a post w/ results on another forum.

Just to let you better understand what's involved during forward motion: at first the front propellers are slowed down, then the rear propellers are sped up. With an unforgiving frontal wind it is normal for the drone to slightly descend. In your case it was also losing ground, it could have kept altitude much better without stick inputs but that would have resulted to the drone drifting further away.

If you can expect in almost any other place to lose connection very close to the ground (for RC signal occlusion) but at least quietened down wind that lets you land the AC or let it land by itself for Failsafe, this can't hold true for the sea. I know for a fact even before drone flying. On a complete hypothetical ground the only way to save it once as far as it reached was to try to head it South or NW to the peninsular foot above (far more realistic and possible considering the Southern wind and land proximity).

GaryDoug Posted at 2-21 20:11
Pardon me if I am out of line here, being a rookie. But I wonder why the operators who lose a drone do not post a link to the full low-res video that is stored on the phone/tablet. Shouldn't that possibly add some value to the discussion? For example there is some difference of opinion about the wind speed. Wouldn't the video show that, especially since this was over water?

For my experience a slight crisscross texture on a lake is already a good indication of a major wind, as tree tops waving about is a good indicator of very strong wind. But the AC itself already tells the story with wind warnings and ESC errors (they do happen w/ perfect props during high wind episodes). Judging the wind from a video can be very misleading.

For the cached videos you must be recording I believe, as normally I don't have the cache of my regulars flights when I take off or land. I haven't yet verified if a video cache is only recorded during video mode or only saved when video recording.

...........forget it. I may as well be talking to a wall.....enough

m80116 Posted at 2-22 14:14
No... they're trying to say that when it went down it was really on the power limit the ESC is programmed to draw from a battery set (one battery pack).

For what I have seen in other analysis DJI already has a cautious approach at max-min battery level, you can top them up everytime as long as you don't leave them unused for months.

Despite the emerit. professor trying to convince you that you're victim of a fault, the uncommanded  descent happens quickly and is tied to a sudden stop or change of direction (wind) around the drone body, after which it can usually recover by itself and contrary to popular beliefs (probably) it doesn't generate any ESC errors because it's deeply tied to how the drone measures and interprets the air pressure. I've done my testing and also published a post w/ results on another forum.

Contrary to (your own) popular belief, you have no idea what you are talking about.
Everything you are saying here is wrong.
Learn something about drones and reading flight data before you make a fool of yourself any more.

GaryDoug Posted at 2-22 19:27
The weather is not the only reason I think it may be useful to view the cached recording when the drone is lost. On another forum there was discussion about the reasons for a drone being lost suddenly. The logs showed nothing to help. A few members posed the possibility of a bird strike, which went mostly ignored....until the OP finally posted the cached video and confirmed that was exactly what had happened. Being a retired test engineer whose job description was literally "fault analysis" I always try to use all of the available data. I would have assumed as much with this activity.

The logs showed nothing to help. A few members posed the possibility of a bird strike, which went mostly ignored....until the OP finally posted the cached video and confirmed that was exactly what had happened. Being a retired test engineer whose job description was literally "fault analysis" I always try to use all of the available data. I would have assumed as much with this activity.

It's unlikely that a birdstrike would not show in the flight data.
The bird would have to cleanly remove the battery without tipping the drone.
Can you point me toward discussion on this incident.

I thank you all for your opinions, now I am waiting for DJI respond to my request, even if I think it is full of tickets

GaryDoug Posted at 2-22 19:27
...........forget it. I may as well be talking to a wall.....enough

Or perhaps whatever it was you were trying to say didn't come through clearly.

m80116 Posted at 2-22 14:14
No... they're trying to say that when it went down it was really on the power limit the ESC is programmed to draw from a battery set (one battery pack).

For what I have seen in other analysis DJI already has a cautious approach at max-min battery level, you can top them up everytime as long as you don't leave them unused for months.

Where did you make all that stuff up from, it’s complete trash an serves no purpose here, please back it up with some facts and quit the rambling .what your saying totally contradicts logs and more so contradicts what OP is saying .

hallmark007 Posted at 2-19 13:58
Flying in s mode is not a problem unless your not used to it , it wont cause any more crashes and in the wind can sometimes beneficial.
You are right and your readiness may have been the problem here. A great start is reading the manual and understanding how your drone works, how to prepare for flying etc, you tube and this forum are great sources of information.
Put your crash down to experience costly one , I’ll leave below a preflight that’s may help you in the future if you have any questions about it just ask, don’t beat yourself up about it, it happens to many of us.

I actually manifested exactly this routine offered by you from the very beginning. Quick, easy, gives confidence in the Electronics (which I never trust 100%) ;-)

JJB* Posted at 2-19 13:05
Hiya

Sorry for your loss, lots of errors.

I keep saying how the Mavic Mini is performance incapable but the word isn't reaching people in time.  Not enough ESC force should force RTH in 1:30 time elapse if it lasts long enough while playing a small clip to the operator about the drone going away forever or not back in one piece so people feel better about not being able to stop the RTH than getting mad.  I understand how the creators that have created us with vulnerabilities further stemmed into people having Mavic Mini problems but it just doesn't have to happen.  People can have their Minis just as long as they aren't in incapable situations which most of the Mavic Mini population are not knowledgable enough to make correct judgments.  Either DJI designs the drone to take action or they find out the hard way still not knowing what happened but only after questions have been asked, and answers given.

I've created a 111R drone.  I was banked 45° or more in acro mode (facing into the headwind) and it stayed steady, high-winds.  With bigger drones I've never seen such an experience.  If in an emergency (winds exceeding the ability for the mini to fly back at the maximum current angle set), DJI should allow the attitude limit to be broken (60°) even if that means the user looking at the ground (maximum tilt angle).

I'm starting to think that the Mini's design is a bit to the limit to maintain weight and autonomy..
I hope that software updates can partially remedy the problem. Forced landing in case of problems is a solution that should be left to man, in the absence of risks it is better to try to prolong the maneuver rather than lose the drone as in my case

hallmark007 Posted at 2-24 15:53
Where did you make all that stuff up from, it’s complete trash an serves no purpose here, please back it up with some facts and quit the rambling .what your saying totally contradicts logs and more so contradicts what OP is saying .

You don't deserve an explanation. You think of being better and superior... deal with it, champion.

By the way stop using TRASH words and insulting people.

AntDX316 Posted at 2-25 01:33
I keep saying how the Mavic Mini is performance incapable but the word isn't reaching people in time.  Not enough ESC force should force RTH in 1:30 time elapse if it lasts long enough while playing a small clip to the operator about the drone going away forever or not back in one piece so people feel better about not being able to stop the RTH than getting mad.  I understand how the creators that have created us with vulnerabilities further stemmed into people having Mavic Mini problems but it just doesn't have to happen.  People can have their Minis just as long as they aren't in incapable situations which most of the Mavic Mini population are not knowledgable enough to make correct judgments.  Either DJI designs the drone to take action or they find out the hard way still not knowing what happened but only after questions have been asked, and answers given.

I've created a 111R drone.  I was banked 45° or more in acro mode (facing into the headwind) and it stayed steady, high-winds.  With bigger drones I've never seen such an experience.  If in an emergency (winds exceeding the ability for the mini to fly back at the maximum current angle set), DJI should allow the attitude limit to be broken (60°) even if that means the user looking at the ground (maximum tilt angle).

For what I've seen it's not a problem of strategy rather FORCE... gravity is an ugly beast. Otherwise all these cases where the drone slowly and steadily descends wouldn't happen w/ Strong Wind Warning(s) and ESC Not Enough Force errors.

I'm deeply convinced if you'd tilt a Mini more you'd lose altitude even more quickly. With respect to forced landing I believe if we'd all follow the advisories right away most of the losses wouldn't have happened. I am the first that I've disregarded a warning... but I knew what I was after.

m80116 Posted at 2-25 07:03
You don't deserve an explanation. You think of being better and superior... deal with it, champion.

By the way stop using TRASH words and insulting people.

I think I’m not the only one here who has found you out to be a fraud, it seems your hopping from one thread to another giving spurious information to other members and failing to back anything up with any facts, contradicting many but nothing to show for it, but I’m glad to say that I and others have corrected most of the rubbish you have been passing on as fact according to the messiah m80116 .

Renato61 Posted at 2-25 02:40
I'm starting to think that the Mini's design is a bit to the limit to maintain weight and autonomy..
I hope that software updates can partially remedy the problem. Forced landing in case of problems is a solution that should be left to man, in the absence of risks it is better to try to prolong the maneuver rather than lose the drone as in my case

I believe that the ESC errors are tied to corrupt firmware upgrade of the batteries to .0400 firmware using the Fly app. I started to have those errors outdoor then I only flew indoor and got the same error.

I stopped flying until the problem was solved. I have posted several times what I did and resume flights. I have flown for more than 1 hour without any error. I am getting more confident in flying the MM.

hallmark007 Posted at 2-25 08:07
I think I’m not the only one here who has found you out to be a fraud, it seems your hopping from one thread to another giving spurious information to other members and failing to back anything up with any facts, contradicting many but nothing to show for it, but I’m glad to say that I and others have corrected most of the rubbish you have been passing on as fact according to the messiah m80116 .

I backed up everything I said with clear indications and facts that can be quickly verified with a Mavic Mini manual, trying personally using the tests I suggested and verify in other forums with Guides, Tutorials and other lexicon.

Your personal attacking and offence already qualify you well enough. I am not worried about your spurious claims.

I stand behind my right to freely express my own opinions and provide as much information as I please.

m80116 Posted at 2-25 14:09
I backed up everything I said with clear indications and facts that can be quickly verified with a Mavic Mini manual, trying personally using the tests I suggested and verify in other forums with Guides, Tutorials and other lexicon.

Your personal attacking and offence already qualify you well enough. I am not worried about your spurious claims.

Your problem is your making this personal, you have continually been asked to back up what it is your saying and how you arrive at this, just as others do, there are two very clear cases here were you openly blame users for crashes, in both these cases you were wrong and dji have awarded warranty, this is not a case of everyone is out of tune except you, but others are quite open to you explaining how you arrive at you decisions without any showing of how you got there.

It’s also clear that you have bent over backwards to avoid questions about your analysis, I believe Labroids has reached out many times, but you try to ignore his request for information, instead you are trying to make things personal with me, an easy way of getting out of answering questions about what we are here to talk about.

So I’m telling you in no circumstances am I interested in getting personal with you, but am interested in the debate and nothing else, except it or don’t .

m80116 Posted at 2-25 14:09
I backed up everything I said with clear indications and facts that can be quickly verified with a Mavic Mini manual, trying personally using the tests I suggested and verify in other forums with Guides, Tutorials and other lexicon.

Your personal attacking and offence already qualify you well enough. I am not worried about your spurious claims.

I am not worried about your spurious claims.
I stand behind my right to freely express my own opinions and provide as much information as I please.
All you do is to make spurious claims and so far you've provided no facts or information to support them.

hallmark007 Posted at 2-25 14:52
Your problem is your making this personal, you have continually been asked to back up what it is your saying and how you arrive at this, just as others do, there are two very clear cases here were you openly blame users for crashes, in both these cases you were wrong and dji have awarded warranty, this is not a case of everyone is out of tune except you, but others are quite open to you explaining how you arrive at you decisions without any showing of how you got there.

It’s also clear that you have bent over backwards to avoid questions about your analysis, I believe Labroids has reached out many times, but you try to ignore his request for information, instead you are trying to make things personal with me, an easy way of getting out of answering questions about what we are here to talk about.

You're the one making it personal. This is the proof. Continually needing to prosecute and persecute. There's two of you here.

You're being arrogant, off topic, and you even pretend that I quote something that simple web search could provide to you ? You're really spoilt inside... I am calling myself out. You're detrimental to this Forum.

m80116 Posted at 2-25 15:56
You're the one making it personal. This is the proof. Continually needing to prosecute and persecute. There's two of you here.

You're being arrogant, off topic, and you even pretend that I quote something that simple web search could provide to you ? You're really spoilt inside... I am calling myself out. You're detrimental to this Forum.

Anything to avoid the elephant in the room .

HedgeTrimmer Posted at 2-21 09:01
"Probably not the wind. Airdata reported only 4mph there."

Possible fine silica (from blowing sand) got into motor bearings?  Or damage from salt spray?

I would say that it is too imaginative...

I see we are back to the same old nonsense from a few months ago.  instead of the rigorous debate of the issues, the focus has turned personal....again.  you prob don't know this but there are likely many people who want to participate and ask questions but who are afraid to post and/or reply because they might get blasted.  not everyone is well-equipped or even motivated to back up their opinions and that often bleeds over into asking simple questions.  why not just turn these situations into huge learning experiences for everyone without getting angry or spiteful?  thus I try to keep my comments short and on less divisive topics besides flight logs and crashes.  we all know the mini is deeply flawed and basically unsuitable as a world class drone at this point so really, all the comments are moot.  <- that was an opinion.  I wouldn't be surprised if we start hearing talk about the "R" word pretty soon.  anyway, I don't get involved anymore with the bickering between members and I certainly don't participate in all the ridiculous upvoting/downvoting between friends/enemies that is so prevalent throughout this particular forum.  many of us are on drone downtime as the season starts to wrap-up and before long, a ton of us are going to triple our flying time and the forum involvement is hopefully going to rapidly expand so I hope by then I would able to come to this forum and post my problems and get help if I truly needed it.   thank you.

m80116 Posted at 2-25 07:10
For what I've seen it's not a problem of strategy rather FORCE... gravity is an ugly beast. Otherwise all these cases where the drone slowly and steadily descends wouldn't happen w/ Strong Wind Warning(s) and ESC Not Enough Force errors.

I'm deeply convinced if you'd tilt a Mini more you'd lose altitude even more quickly. With respect to forced landing I believe if we'd all follow the advisories right away most of the losses wouldn't have happened. I am the first that I've disregarded a warning... but I knew what I was after.

If the Mini cannot move forward as it needs to altitude hold before it can move then it makes sense.  With DIY drones you can keep the attitude but if you are no longer flying forward at that altitude you either increase altitude and go look down more and go forward.

DJI Gamora Posted at 2-19 13:00
Hi, thank you for reaching out and we're sorry for the incident happened to your DJI Mavic Mini. I will highly recommend you to contact our support team at https://www.dji.com/support to open up a ticket case. We do have our professional team who will handle and perform further analysis on what would be the exact reason for the crashed. A corresponding resolution will be provided once we receive the unit. Please note that DJI can only perform data analysis for units falling within the warranty period; otherwise, valid charges will apply. Thank you for your kind and understanding.

Hello,I am confused with your comment in the above that mentions, there will be a charge  to review the flight data, if your mini is not under warranty.?

As the  Mini launched in Oct 2019, would that not mean all Mini’s are still under warranty as only 4months old?

Just wondering under what circumstance would this mini not be under warranty?

Labroides Posted at 2-21 02:39
Your MM has no fault, it responded at your commands as long as it could... poor little being.
If you believe DJI is at fault for that you're really on the wrong step.

If only they had a Phantom, this would never even exist.

Bassboat Posted at 2-27 14:53
Hello,I am confused with your comment in the above that mentions, there will be a charge  to review the flight data, if your mini is not under warranty.?

As the  Mini launched in Oct 2019, would that not mean all Mini’s are still under warranty as only 4months old?

Hi, thank you for your response. You are correct, the DJI Mavic Mini was launch last 2019 therefore, this unit was still under warranty. With regards to the flight data on the previous post. This refers to the drone's warranty that had already expired and there is an incident happened that damage the drone and the owner of the drone wants to know what happened to his flight. Thank you!