Ice_2k Posted at 3-2 13:14
I just explained above, compass error is a great example I would say

If you have a compass problem, your craft is designed to auto go straight to opti or atti mode,

So it works exactly like this and it’s quick, Compass problem craft drops gps in favor of compass goes to atti mode, craft cannot fly without compass but can without gps, so no you don't  need a switch, and if system corrects itself or in some craft reverts to second compass and gps is auto so craft automatically from atti mode to gps mode, and there is no switch that can do this quicker.
I explained only reason for switch is for those wishing to fly Atti mode.

Ice_2k Posted at 3-2 08:58
wouldn't a manual trigger for ATTI mode be able to stop a runaway caused by a compass error? Well, obviously not "stop" it as in the drone won't be able to hold position on its own but have the computer just stick to staying airborne and leave everything else to the pilot. I would feel much safer with such an option available.

Again you don’t seem to be fully aware how system works, if you have compass problem system drops gps in favor of compass and goes to next available mode opti if not atti and it’s all auto as well as reversing itself if system can correct itself .

hallmark007 Posted at 3-2 13:25
If you have a compass problem, your craft is designed to auto go straight to opti or atti mode,

So it works exactly like this and it’s quick, Compass problem craft drops gps in favor of compass goes to atti mode, craft cannot fly without compass but can without gps, so no you don't  need a switch, and if system corrects itself or in some craft reverts to second compass and gps is auto so craft automatically from atti mode to gps mode, and there is no switch that can do this quicker.

I'm talking about the numerous situations where people took off with some compass interference they weren't aware of and then mid-flight the compass interference disappeared and IMU/compass reading no longer matched. In those situations the craft did not go into atti mode but instead spiraled out of control trying to maintain position but unable to do so because of the incorrect compass heading, instead flying further and further away. So in those situations, it did *not* drop gps, but kept trying to maintain its gps position. From what I understand, there is not much you can do if you find yourself in such a situation with the craft flying randomly through the air out of your control. Being able to hit a button to trigger atti mode (or to basically say "stop trying to maintain position, just don't do anything, give full manual control to the pilot") would give a good chance to the pilot of recovering, especially if you're high enough to not be in immediate danger of hitting something.

Ice_2k Posted at 3-3 00:21
I'm talking about the numerous situations where people took off with some compass interference they weren't aware of and then mid-flight the compass interference disappeared and IMU/compass reading no longer matched. In those situations the craft did not go into atti mode but instead spiraled out of control trying to maintain position but unable to do so because of the incorrect compass heading, instead flying further and further away. So in those situations, it did *not* drop gps, but kept trying to maintain its gps position. From what I understand, there is not much you can do if you find yourself in such a situation with the craft flying randomly through the air out of your control. Being able to hit a button to trigger atti mode (or to basically say "stop trying to maintain position, just don't do anything, give full manual control to the pilot") would give a good chance to the pilot of recovering, especially if you're high enough to not be in immediate danger of hitting something.

Your 100% wrong and you still don’t understand how drones work.  
Once there is conflict between compass and IMU then gps will be dropped in favor of compass causing aircraft to go to atti mode.

So as I said there is no need for an atti switch in this situation, and if you did can you explain to me how you would know if gps came back ? Or do you think it would be quicker to keep searching for a switch to check on gps while flying in a 20mph wind trying to control your drone.

As I said and I’ll repeat the only reason for atti switch is for those who want to fly Atti mode, your auto system works far better and safer going into atti mode when it needs to and out of atti mode when it can .
If you craft still has gps then it still has some hold, so this is always better than none, and unless you've lost control of RC then it works exactly the same in atti as gps, except you need to be much more alert in atti mode.
I highly recommend anyone to go into an open field 20mph and see how difficult it is .

hallmark007 Posted at 3-3 00:36
Your 100% wrong and you still don’t understand how drones work.  
Once there is conflict between compass and IMU then gps will be dropped in favor of compass causing aircraft to go to atti mode.

Dude, can you even try having a conversation without making it personal against the other guy? Are you equally unpleasant in real life? I'm really trying to keep the conversation objective and on facts despite your previous aggression when replying but every single post you make has to start with a personal attack. "again you don't understand how this works". "you're (sic) 100% wrong and still don't understand how drones work". And then you babble around on other topics about helping people get into the hobby and learning. Even assuming I was wrong here (which I might, i have no problem accepting that if someone shows me otherwise, which you haven't done) that's not the way to have a conversation. Being arrogant and talking down to people simply doesn't work.

Now, about the topic on hand. I gave you clear examples about the situation I'm discussing. There have been at least 2 incidents like this with "magnetic interference" as the cause for a drone spiralling out of control. You can't reply to all of these with the same phrase you wrote 100 times, "gps will be dropped in favor of compass". In these examples, that clearly didn't happen. The toilet bowl effect with drones is another example of conflict between compass and IMU which causes the drone to go nuts, specifically because it's *not* dropping GPS. Here's a quick explanation of this:





So, for these specific situations, why wouldn't an ATTI trigger be the way to go? *IF* the drone does *NOT* drop GPS and goes crazy, a "full manual" trigger would be your best bet to save the drone.

Ice_2k Posted at 3-3 01:30
Dude, can you even try having a conversation without making it personal against the other guy? Are you equally unpleasant in real life? I'm really trying to keep the conversation objective and on facts despite your previous aggression when replying but every single post you make has to start with a personal attack. "again you don't understand how this works". "you're (sic) 100% wrong and still don't understand how drones work". And then you babble around on other topics about helping people get into the hobby and learning. Even assuming I was wrong here (which I might, i have no problem accepting that if someone shows me otherwise, which you haven't done) that's not the way to have a conversation. Being arrogant and talking down to people simply doesn't work.

Now, about the topic on hand. I gave you clear examples about the situation I'm discussing. There have been at least 2 incidents like this with "magnetic interference" as the cause for a drone spiralling out of control. You can't reply to all of these with the same phrase you wrote 100 times, "gps will be dropped in favor of compass". In these examples, that clearly didn't happen. The toilet bowl effect with drones is another example of conflict between compass and IMU which causes the drone to go nuts, specifically because it's *not* dropping GPS. Here's a quick explanation of this:

I have explained to you now in 4 different posts, but because I’m proving you wrong, you see it as an attack yet you accept almost nothing anyone says to you, example your continually back and forth with Labroids not accepting anything, so don’t accuse me of getting personal “I’m not”.

Your now quoting TBE in TBE your not in gps mode regardless of what you think and even in atti mode it’s almost impossible and I don’t believe you or anyone else will save drone through some magical skill.

You drone has 3 modes Gps opti and Atti both opti and atti are auto atti has no hold opti has hold from ground to bottom of craft and gps has hold from top of craft to sky,.

Now your telling everyone here that if you have opti or gps that their are situations that when turning these off that you will have better control over your drone, that’s frankly not true and instead of whining all the time answer the questions you are posing ans stop running away from them.

1/ how will atti mode help you with a drone spiraling out of control.
2/ if you had a switch to atti how would you know if gps returned and when
3/ why and how is switch quicker than auto.
4/ and if your correct dji have designed ALL THEIR DRONES WRONG by configuring them to go to atti automatically.5/ how if you have the same control of remote is it better craft is in atti than gps

Now instead of this constant back an forth answer the questions, because it’s pretty obvious you seem to think you know much more than anyone else here including dji.

Ok, let's do this. I'll answer each and every one of your questions, then you do the same, ok?

1/ how will atti mode help you with a drone spiraling out of control.
As I understand it (and as it has been explained on this forum by others, JJB for example), the spiralling out of control is caused by the drone trying to correct itself to maintain its gps position. As it's drifting a bit to the east for instance it will try to compensate by going west. But its "west" is wrong because of the incorrect compass reading. So it's drifting north. Now it's even farther away from its intended gps position and tries to correct faster but again it's flying in the wrong direction. Switching to ATTI mode in this situation would cause the drone to stop trying to go somewhere (e.g. its intended gps position) and just stop doing anything except staying in the air. This will obviously not stop the drone in its tracks as it already has some momentum so it will just be drifting through the air with its momentum and with the wind. At that point, looking at your live feed you can see the drone moving right for instance and you should have no problem tilting the right joystick to the left to stop it going right. As these actions don't need compass/gps to work, the failing sensors should no longer have any effect. Of course, if you're in some ridiculous situation like your 20mph wind example, then yes, it's highly unlikely that you'll be able to manually control it. But in that kind of wind, you're probably not controlling it even if all sensors are fine so I reallly don't think this is relevant.

2/ if you had a switch to atti how would you know if gps returned and when
The discussion was not about losing gps, but about getting a compass/imu conflict causing a spiralling effect. At that point, I would not be bothered with my gps signal. I would stop the spiralling and just bring the drone down, you would have to be a mad man to stop a TBE for instance by switching to ATTI mode and then going back to P mode once you regained control, something is definitely wrong with the drone's instruments at that point and continuing flying would be just stupid.

3/ why and how is switch quicker than auto.
As evidence by the crashes caused by the drone going mad due to "magnetic interference", the drone clearly does not switch to atti mode when this happens.

4/ and if your correct dji have designed ALL THEIR DRONES WRONG by configuring them to go to atti automatically.
Not sure what you mean here, the Mini does *not* go into ATTI automatically when it encounters an IMU/compass conflict, there are quite a few flight logs of crashed drones on this forum as evidence for this. It only goes into ATTI mode when it has no other option (e.g. no GPS and no VPS).


My turn:
1/ You brought up my going back and forth with Labroides (presumably on the Android topic). How is that an argument for your being arrogant and talking down to people? I have been respectful in all my replies to Labroides on that topic (and I'm pretty sure I'm correct as the initial OP will confirm but that's not really important here).

2/ Simply stating "if you have compass error, gps is dropped in favor of compass" over again and again is not "proof", is just you making a statement. One that is not backed by examples of drones spiralling out of control. Which we have flight logs for here. Please explain where you proved me wrong regarding this matter. It's not rhetorical, if I can be proven wrong on this I want to be, I care a lot more about knowing exactly what to do if this happens to my drone than being right on the internet.

3/ You say that in TBE you're not in GPS mode. Again, you can't simply state the opposite and call that proof. If you're not in GPS mode (as many videos like the one explain you actually are, at least in some instances), please explain why the drone is spiralling. What is causing it to go round and round?

Ice_2k Posted at 3-3 02:15
Ok, let's do this. I'll answer each and every one of your questions, then you do the same, ok?

1/ how will atti mode help you with a drone spiraling out of control.

Hi Ice,

I see my name in your post. Thanks  ;-)

I do not want to interfere with your good and friendly conversation in this thread....but about your /4 points:

1/ True, most fly aways from compass/yaw errors ends in a TBE fly away movement. The radius of this depends on the difference in compass/yaw values.
It is possible to steer against it, but once recognized by the pilot (if...) drone is often far away to visually correct manually by pilot. So not that easy.

I agree with you that in such a situation a manual switch to ATTI could make a difference, but not sure how many pilots can control a "manual stopped by ATTI"  compass/yaw fly away and bring the craft under control again. But if recognized early, direct manual put into ATTI and flying in LOS ; yes, some pilots can handle that.
A good performed pre take off compass check will reduce the chance of  such a fly-away. But to my surprise sometimes this kind of a compass error pops-up after many minutes in flight (start with a good compass), and in flight many yaw moves ae made (normally a trigger for a fly away). These incidents do happen and i have not a clue what to do against it before hand.

great example of a compass/yaw error > https://forum.phantomhelp.com/t/mavic-mini-flew-away-on-me/4477  [drone actual take off south, compass hdg 055, problem with analyzing such flights is that you have to ask the pilot wich heading at take-off to know that the logged heading is wrong, this flight easy seeing his video ]

2,3 + 4/ DJI drones will automatically go into ATTI when a compass/imu error is there. Yes, but only a serious error. In almost all yaw/compass errors i have seen  (and easy to find on this forum as well) ATTI is not forced to become active.

So when does a DJI drone goes into ATTI (when flying in stabilized GPS mode) ;
- loosing GPS signals/reception ; happens almost never, only when flying under bridges, under trees etc, shielded by large buildings, so 99% a pilots 'where-do-i-fly-error'.
- Serious compass error ; not often as far as i see in my large database of error flights.
- IMU error
cheers
JJB

Ice_2k Posted at 3-3 02:15
Ok, let's do this. I'll answer each and every one of your questions, then you do the same, ok?

1/ how will atti mode help you with a drone spiraling out of control.

Your answer to #1, in fact the only reason you have given for maintaining an atti switch is TBE, which is caused by interference, and maybe we should hear from jjb what is his experience in this matter and if he can give his reasons why atti switch would yield better outcomes for what it is your looking to counteract.

I have flown drones for over 5 years now with atti switch, I have been here on this forum for almost all that time, and to this day I have never seen a flight log where a drone went into TBE and controller switched to atti mode and saved his drone landing it safely, so none for me so far.

I have watched a video of a guy demonstrating toilet bowl effect by attempting to land his drone on a corrugated roof to show the actual circular motion of the drone, I looked for video but couldn’t find it.
The reason I looked for it was to point out that TBE as most around would see it was not anything as slow or as deliberate as what happens when we see it in an unplanned way.

You say logs don’t show craft going from IMU heading to compass error yaw error and craft going to atti mode, but part of that problem is the log itself.
Just a week or so ago on this forum user came on and told the story of how his drone from launch took this very sharp turn and ended up in the pond.
He gave all information log where he launched and how drone reacted, your friend jjb was first to let him know that his crash was more than likely down to weak gps, he had judged this directly from the log presented.
But the actual flight and how the drone reacted was nothing like weak gps and also no consideration was given for VPS.
Having closely at the crash where the pilot took off from and the direct action the drone took including diving into the water, it was clear something other than weak gps was the cause, and from my point of view from how craft reacted from take off and where launch was I predicted that crash was caused by interference caused by the environment craft was flown in, and dji found this was exactly the reason for the crash.
I mention this because PH logs for mini are very strange and don’t fully resemble what exactly occurred, like no yaw reports, we never see opti mode reported in fact we are completely missing many error reports from logs, so because we don’t see immediately atti mode proceed IMU incorrect heading yaw error doesn’t mean craft wasn’t in atti mode, and I believe if you look at other logs like phantom drone logs you’ll find that they are much better laid out but have had many years to bed down and I’m sure PH will improve reporting of mini over time.

You say I said that if you have compass error that gps is dropped in favor of compass, that’s not what I said I said that if there is conflict between compass and IMU then gps will be dropped in favor of compass  and this is what’s reported and seen in all dji drones.

You also say that if you got into TBE your only concern would be to save drone, 1/ do you realize how difficult this is I think you’d get about 6 seconds to find your switch and guide your drone and safely land it.
When I done my commercial license we were told if similar happen at take off think of nothing else only left stick down, so much easier than “oh I’m inTBE WHERES my atti mode switch and the 20 different stick movements you’ll need to make because your drone once you switch will never retain gps.

So without going on about this, I see it simply like this your trying to save drones by putting atti switch on Mavic mini, but when have you seen any drone saved by switching to atti mode manually, I have never seen any dji drone, but maybe you have or jjb has.

I have and fly 3 different drones with atti switch and my experience has been I’ve only ever switched to atti mode to fly in atti mode.
I have seen many over the years crashing in atti mode practicing , I own 4 mavics and I know as we all do not one Mavic was crashed practicing atti mode, I have seen and read of users loosing gps craft going into atti mode for short periods and auto back to gps and safely landed their craft safely.

And concluding on that, maybe both you and jjb can show me all the craft that have been saved by the use of an atti switch, because if this is the case then yes there is some merit in it, but if more drones are going to be lost more accidents going to had and more property damaged as a result of new flyers being ignorant to what atti mode is about are we better off with it or without it, I think that if mini flyers are still not aware of wind at altitude being stronger or using throttle and elevator to position craft in the wind then the last thing they need is atti mode to save them .

Hi Hallmark,

First to say that i agree with your saying in post #25.

In post #49 you asked me about my experience for saving crafts in ATTI, well i do not have myself a DJI drone wich can be switched manually to ATTI ; so no experience ofcourse.
As you read in my previous post you i am not convinced that manually switching to ATTI will make it easier for a pilot to save his drone. Mayby mayby yes, read again please.
But it is good to have an open discussion about this, how other thinks about things and agree or not agree in a nice way.

Did i saw TBE logs where users save their drones this way?  nope, seen many compass/yaw errors and fly-aways but no rescues like that, logic as not all drones can switch manually to ATTI. As said, mayby mayby with an compass/yaw error it is possible to switch quickly into manual ATTI and save / land your drone, but as said only if closeby and for xperienced flyers only. Only to recognize errors and value them correctly in flight takes more than just a few seconds, let alone to take the correct action for that situation.
Don`t know why you always feel the need to pinpoint 'mistakes' out wich i made in your eyes. Never mind, must be in your character to do so.
Your standard text that DJI drone will automatically switch to OPT/ATTI with a compass error is true, unfortunately all the compass/yaw interference problems doesn't stop the craft from flying, it will stay in GPS mode and will fly away in most cases. So the start of this, your reaction to ICE was simply wrong. He has an idea and you counter him back with that ATTI story. Just be open to other people thoughts and react to that with correct arguments. Good for everybody to learn from an exprerienced flyer.

PH logs are not complete for MM, PH uses old decryping sofware or hasn`t update their program. The latest decrypters show all messages, correct modes, yaw errors etc.
I have many MM logs in my database, not one log with inconsistent data. Comparing with my own MM logs i can say that when RC/Device is connected to the Craft all values are written correctly. BTW during a video link loss data is written also, only when the full downward link is broken not data is written in the log.
OPTI mode is not always correct in PH ( this for all DJI crafts ) but if you read the underlying values in the CSV file you can see when a DJI drone is in OPTI. (btw same for VPS use and errors).

cheers
JJB

JJB* Posted at 3-3 11:45
Hi Hallmark,

First to say that i agree with your saying in post #25.

I suppose if logs are correct then we shouldn’t get mistakes, also believe you don’t have any problems pointing out others misgivings so maybe we are both alike in that.
What happens here is so much common sense gets lost in the mire.
I am still waiting to see how having atti mode is more of a benefit on Mavic than a hindrance, break it down , more crashes when practicing atti mode than saving drones in phantoms many more mistakes using atti mode, no recorded phantoms saved as a result of switching manually to atti mode IE TBE, no crashes using atti mode Manually with mavics  , many mavic drones saved using auto atti , so maybe common sense says that having no atti on these small drones in the long run will help not hinder .

However if you can point out to me any case where switching manually to atti mode saved a drone then at least it will be something I’ve not seen before.


Your statement about yaw error and craft staying in gps mode makes no sense, are you saying that drone is in gps mode and with no stick movements is still moving and also no input from controller, I think your mixing this up with reported gps but actual atti mode, similar to what occurred last week in the case I pointed out, as they always say much more information in the .dat file and it was clear by that case that dji knew more than either of us.

You say PH logs are completely correct and report all warnings , I don’t believe this and from my experience it’s not correct, but I don’t save logs but I will point out this if I think I see mistake in Future logs.

So question is will having atti mode save more drones or crash more drones in the hands of many new users, my answer is No it won’t and in all the conversations I’ve seen on this thread I see nothing that would change that opinion and I would imagine dji were thinking that way when they decided to remove it in all mavics .

Ice_2k Posted at 3-2 13:14
I just explained above, compass error is a great example I would say

That is so. A competent pilot is one who is trained for any eventuality and when it happens takes it in their stride. That is why people practice in Atti mode rather than rely on automation or an imaginary friend ;-). A very good example in manned aviation is where the pilots lost not only all engine power but most of the instrumentation went blank. They walked away. Training made that happen . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider

Regards

hallmark007 Posted at 3-3 12:20
I suppose if logs are correct then we shouldn’t get mistakes, also believe you don’t have any problems pointing out others misgivings so maybe we are both alike in that.
What happens here is so much common sense gets lost in the mire.
I am still waiting to see how having atti mode is more of a benefit on Mavic than a hindrance, break it down , more crashes when practicing atti mode than saving drones in phantoms many more mistakes using atti mode, no recorded phantoms saved as a result of switching manually to atti mode IE TBE, no crashes using atti mode Manually with mavics  , many mavic drones saved using auto atti , so maybe common sense says that having no atti on these small drones in the long run will help not hinder .

nah , we are not the same, not for attitude and for knowledge.

OMG, you just don`t read and want to understand my writings, guess others do.

You can wait long time, read my reaction again.

Yes, a typical compass.yaw error will cause fly way, in P-GPS mode and without RC input.
Lots of logs here on this forum n wich you can see this.

Uh, i wrote "PH logs are not complete for MM", so do not understand your reaction??
If you use the correct decrypter you will see all data correct.
No need to believe me, FRAP users will know this is true, as they are using the correct decryper.

Well sent me one of your MM txt files, i will sent you back a full report so you can compare with your own data, PH etc.  

Read your last lines again and read my text, on this we agree. Why don`t you understand that??

cheers
JJB

JJB* Posted at 3-3 12:41
nah , we are not the same, not for attitude and for knowledge.

OMG, you just don`t read and want to understand my writings, guess others do.

So you don’t insult people, but at the same time try to insult them by telling them they have no knowledge, they copy and paste everything have no experience, mr jjb nice guy, it sounds like your very fond of yourself.

Your right I don’t understand your writing

“I agree with you that in such a situation a manual switch to ATTI could make a difference”
This is what you wrote above. But never explained how you know this with all your knowledge!

You then write in last post.
Read the last lines of my text on this we agree
So which do you agree on ?

Regarding compass IMU heading yaw errors craft goes to atti mode and if it doesn’t and is still in gps mode you still have control and as much control if not more than in atti mode, so trying to make a switch to atti mode would be completely futile.

My whole point was stick input doesn’t matter whether in atti mode or pgps mode craft will respond to stick mode the same way, so for instance in atti mode left stick fully down when drone is in TBE mode will land craft and same in atti mode.
And my advice to all was simple and advice given to me in same situation, don’t think about anything craft out of control, left stick down 100% until craft lands.

JJB* Posted at 3-3 11:45
Hi Hallmark,

First to say that i agree with your saying in post #25.

"PH logs are not complete for MM, PH uses old decryping sofware or hasn`t  update their program. The latest decrypters show all messages, correct  modes, yaw errors etc."

Beating a dead-horse...  Absolutely do not understand why DJI does not provide a Web-Tool to decrypt both GO/GO-4 App flight logs stored on SmartDevice and flight logs stored on DJI drones!

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


DJI are you Listening?   Hello!

DJI, why don't you provide customers with tool to decrypt flight logs?  

HedgeTrimmer Posted at 3-3 14:00
"PH logs are not complete for MM, PH uses old decryping sofware or hasn`t  update their program. The latest decrypters show all messages, correct  modes, yaw errors etc."

Beating a dead-horse...  Absolutely do not understand why DJI does not provide a Web-Tool to decrypt both GO/GO-4 App flight logs stored on SmartDevice and flight logs stored on DJI drones!

There is no point in you having a decrypt tool, you don’t have anything to decrypt .

hallmark007 Posted at 3-3 14:30
There is no point in you having a decrypt tool, you don’t have anything to decrypt .

Even if I didn't have anything to decrypt, others would.  

Thus, still valid question for DJI to answer.

HedgeTrimmer Posted at 3-3 17:37
Even if I didn't have anything to decrypt, others would.  

Thus, still valid question for DJI to answer.

Thus, still valid question for DJI to answer.
Valid or not, DJI don't give information in this forum.

Labroides Posted at 3-3 19:31
Thus, still valid question for DJI to answer.
Valid or not, DJI don't give information in this forum.

Occasionally DJI has, but for most part DJI is silent here.
Maybe this is one of those occasional speak-up times...

See it as an enlightening question for potential customers.  

HedgeTrimmer Posted at 3-3 17:37
Even if I didn't have anything to decrypt, others would.  

Thus, still valid question for DJI to answer.

You’ve been asking for two years, if it’s of no good to you why ask for others, I’m certain if they needed it they can ask for themselves, but there’s certainly no need for someone who can’t read altitude looking for any decrypt tool.

Hover-Fly Posted at 3-3 12:37
That is so. A competent pilot is one who is trained for any eventuality and when it happens takes it in their stride. That is why people practice in Atti mode rather than rely on automation or an imaginary friend ;-). A very good example in manned aviation is where the pilots lost not only all engine power but most of the instrumentation went blank. They walked away. Training made that happen . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider

Regards

I suppose it would be a lot easier if you were to post a 2/3 video of you flying in atti mode, you could record the screen, this might show how easy or difficult it is to become accustomed at flying atti mode, and the those who wish to avail of the hack can make up their own mind whether atti is beneficial to them.I look forward to seeing the video .

hallmark007 Posted at 3-3 13:27
So you don’t insult people, but at the same time try to insult them by telling them they have no knowledge, they copy and paste everything have no experience, mr jjb nice guy, it sounds like your very fond of yourself.

Your right I don’t understand your writing

1/ true;  I do not insult people on this forum.
2/ where do i say in my reaction that you have no knowledge?
3/ its proven by many others on this forum that you copy paste many knowledge, even some pictures are copy paste
4/ if you quote others don`t pick out only what 'benefits ' you [ your copy paste : I agree with you that in such a situation a manual switch to ATTI could make a difference ]
read this again ; (btw this txt was a reaction to ICE)
I agree with you that in such a situation a manual switch to ATTI could make a difference, but not sure how many pilots can control a "manual stopped by ATTI"  compass/yaw fly away and bring the craft under control again. But if recognized early, direct manual put into ATTI and flying in LOS ; yes, some pilots can handle that.5/ we agree on ; read 4/ if switch to manually help just 1% of the mishaps, why not?  if you don`t like it, don`t use it.
6/ Wrong, far from always a DJI drone will not go into ATTI with compass/yaw errors. And when there is a fly away due to compass/yaw error you are still in control (as i said before) but you have to get into control while drone is trying to fly away. In ATTI this will stop, so in theory its better to try to gain control in ATTI than trying to get control while it is doing a fly away in wich craft most of the time accelerate quickly to a high speed.
Now i understand your reaction better to many logs as you think that drone is always in ATTI after compass/yaw erros, you even doubt the flightmode (and other values) in the logs.
So please rethink/rewrite your "Let me explain..."  ;-)
7/ Craft will react the same in ATTI or in PGPS TBE fly away, the point was and is what is better to gain control again. Good question/thought by ICe and deserve a nice reaction than you did, just my opinion. BTW you wrote "your friend ICE" ; well he and i are just forum users, we don`t drink coffee together....8/ Is there a need for decrytping logs?  a/ yes: because log are encrypted  b/ yes: as we all like to see more data than DJI provides us, so we use PH, AirData, CSVview/datCon, FRAP etc.

cheers
JJB

JJB* Posted at 3-4 01:56
1/ true;  I do not insult people on this forum.
2/ where do i say in my reaction that you have no knowledge?
3/ its proven by many others on this forum that you copy paste many knowledge, even some pictures are copy paste

Take a long look at the video, compass problem atti mode craft starts to drift auto back to gps craft is ok, now you say best to have switch go to atti then fly home in atti ignore gps.

So I show you below the importance of auto atti and then back to gps once restored, now maybe you will show us how an actual switch to atti is better knowing you have completely ditched gps so pilot better off on his own, and there are 50 more similar videos on YT, you will also notice straight to atti mode and compass error didn’t appear that severe.

JJB* Posted at 3-4 01:56
1/ true;  I do not insult people on this forum.
2/ where do i say in my reaction that you have no knowledge?
3/ its proven by many others on this forum that you copy paste many knowledge, even some pictures are copy paste

Here’s another one, you will see as soon as it enters atti mode it doesn’t react like you say but flys away and that’s what happens when you go into atti mode and don’t react, not as you and ICE think that somehow atti mode is going to save you it won’t . But allowing auto atti/gps saved this drone. And that’s why we have auto atti mode.

hallmark007 Posted at 3-4 00:52
I suppose it would be a lot easier if you were to post a 2/3 video of you flying in atti mode, you could record the screen, this might show how easy or difficult it is to become accustomed at flying atti mode, and the those who wish to avail of the hack can make up their own mind whether atti is beneficial to them.I look forward to seeing the video .

Indeed I could , however I have never been one to reinvent the wheel, there is plenty of footage out tthere and any instructor should point people in the right direction. Equate it to stabilisers on a child's bike, the child learns to ride with them attached, then one day they are removed. Sure, the child is likely to fall off, possibly more than once, but it learns really quickly and soon is capable of riding the bicycle competently. To my knowledge i don't think I know too many adults who rely on stabilsers.   

So everybody agrees that the drone recognising a compass error situation and automatically switching to ATTI mode is beneficial and can save the drone and yet we can’t agree that a manual ATTI toggle would be useful for those situations when the drone does *not* automatically recognise the problem and continues flying with bad compass data?! That's honestly staggering to me.

And also, did anybody ever see a Mini go into ATTI mode automatically following magnetic interference? I have seen lots of videos with this happening with other DJI drones but none with Minis. We did however see a bunch of logs on this very forum where the Mini did *not* recognise the compass error and when nuts assuming the compass data is good.

Hover-Fly Posted at 3-6 11:17
Indeed I could , however I have never been one to reinvent the wheel, there is plenty of footage out tthere and any instructor should point people in the right direction. Equate it to stabilisers on a child's bike, the child learns to ride with them attached, then one day they are removed. Sure, the child is likely to fall off, possibly more than once, but it learns really quickly and soon is capable of riding the bicycle competently. To my knowledge i don't think I know too many adults who rely on stabilsers.

I guess the answer is no, and we won’t get to see your prowess your so fond of telling everyone they need to learn . Your prerogative.
Im Always impressed how easy it is for some to throw stones, but ask them for help they tell you get stuffed, I wonder why, I'll take your experience as a drone pilot with just a pinch of salt .

Ice_2k Posted at 3-6 11:43
So everybody agrees that the drone recognising a compass error situation and automatically switching to ATTI mode is beneficial and can save the drone and yet we can’t agree that a manual ATTI toggle would be useful for those situations when the drone does *not* automatically recognise the problem and continues flying with bad compass data?! That's honestly staggering to me.

And also, did anybody ever see a Mini go into ATTI mode automatically following magnetic interference? I have seen lots of videos with this happening with other DJI drones but none with Minis. We did however see a bunch of logs on this very forum where the Mini did *not* recognise the compass error and when nuts assuming the compass data is good.

Thing about atti mode is you really haven’t a clue how it works, your under some impression that when drone is in TBE that if you switch to atti mode drone will stop, in fact the opposite is more likely to happen, any propulsion of the drone will be exasperated when going into atti mode.

What you need to show us is just one incident where a drone was saved by actually switching to atti mode , I’ve never seen one, so what of all those pilots are they just ignoring their switch.
What we do know is many drones crash because atti mode switch and users practicing or just simply trying it out because they hadn’t a clue what it was.

https://forum.dji.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=210183

Here’s a case where you believe would have been better switching to atti mode and at Two hundred feet and drone moving in a circle in the wind I suppose you would have no problem bringing under control and landing it safely.

You can also see above drone looses gps goes straight to atti mode, and immediately controller can’t control it but lucky for him it returns to gps mode and he now can control his drone and land it safely.

One thing is certain here if mini had a switch many many more crashes and drone losses for many people, but maybe you know something better.

Putting your drone into atti mode when it’s traveling at 30kph will not stop it moving and it will increase its speed not stop like you think it will .

Here we go again. This is my final reply to you, I’m not stupid enough to try and have a rational conversation with you yet again, please just ignore me. I already explained with technical details why ATTI mode stops TBE and you yourself just posted a perfect example of ATTI saving the drone. You totally ignored that explanation and now you're asking for it again. You simply ignore any reasoning from someone else and just repeat the same assertions over and over again, I am now convinced you have 0 interest in having an honest conversation with anyone else, you’re just here to troll. You’re arguing with people across this entire forum and it’s always the other guy that’s crazy. Even though it’s always someone else. Again, please just ignore me.

And for the love of god, learn to spell *you’re*, it’s driving me bonkers.

Ice_2k Posted at 3-6 12:23
Here we go again. This is my final reply to you, I’m not stupid enough to try and have a rational conversation with you yet again, please just ignore me. I already explained with technical details why ATTI mode stops TBE and you yourself just posted a perfect example of ATTI saving the drone. You totally ignored that explanation and now you're asking for it again. You simply ignore any reasoning from someone else and just repeat the same assertions over and over again, I am now convinced you have 0 interest in having an honest conversation with anyone else, you’re just here to troll. You’re arguing with people across this entire forum and it’s always the other guy that’s crazy. Even though it’s always someone else. Again, please just ignore me.

And for the love of god, learn to spell *you’re*, it’s driving me bonkers.

Your like a baby always throwing your toys out of the pram as soon as you realize your ideas are ridiculous, you spend your time on this forum whining about almost everything, but as soon as someone proves you wrong you get personal, I think both I and jjb explained exactly why no atti button, but you can’t give in and logic means nothing to you.
Your problem is you think you know everything but really you know very little and that’s very clear to all here, and when anyone tries to explain anything to you, you don’t like, you think getting personal will make you look somehow better, but it makes you look like an idiot, English is not my first language like many on this forum, but I would never insult others as you do because they’re not using spell check that’s up to your liking . Now do one, because your completely wrong about this and I’m certain having now gone without atti button for 4 years on Mavic dji would agree.

Ice_2k Posted at 3-6 12:23
Here we go again. This is my final reply to you, I’m not stupid enough to try and have a rational conversation with you yet again, please just ignore me. I already explained with technical details why ATTI mode stops TBE and you yourself just posted a perfect example of ATTI saving the drone. You totally ignored that explanation and now you're asking for it again. You simply ignore any reasoning from someone else and just repeat the same assertions over and over again, I am now convinced you have 0 interest in having an honest conversation with anyone else, you’re just here to troll. You’re arguing with people across this entire forum and it’s always the other guy that’s crazy. Even though it’s always someone else. Again, please just ignore me.

And for the love of god, learn to spell *you’re*, it’s driving me bonkers.

I posted no video that showed atti saved anything, I posted video that shows when auto atti and then auto gps that’s what saved the drone, you because your some kind of expert think it’s best to bypass auto which is ridiculous makes absolute no sense and you need to go figure this stuff before you continue to waste your time looking for something you’ll never see.

Man I got 1k views.

Labroides Posted at 3-1 12:22
DJI drones are designed to auto switch to atti in the event of both GPS and VPS loss
Your drone does not switch to atti mode if you lose GPS.
Without GPS, there is no P-GPS mode and Atti mode is all you have without any need for any switching.

Hence AUTO switch

A J Posted at 4-11 02:09
Hence AUTO switch

No .. it doesn't switch to atti mode, automatically or otherwise.
It doesn't switch to anything.
Atti mode is P-GPS mode without any GPS satellite data.

Labroides Posted at 4-11 04:20
No .. it doesn't switch to atti mode, automatically or otherwise.
It doesn't switch to anything.
Atti mode is P-GPS mode without any GPS satellite data.

Yes, it does. The loss of the GPS and GLONASS satellites takes the drone out of positioning mode into attitude mode thus automatically switching between modes as the flight characterists of each mode are clearly different and therefore not the same. Hence, auto switch.

A J Posted at 4-12 23:42
Yes, it does. The loss of the GPS and GLONASS satellites takes the drone out of positioning mode into attitude mode thus automatically switching between modes as the flight characterists of each mode are clearly different and therefore not the same. Hence, auto switch.

I understand it very complicated but I'll try one more time.
There is no switch from one mode to another.
P-GPS mode without satellites is Atti mode.

as the flight characterists of each mode are clearly different.
If you have horizontal position holding using GPS data, you have P-GPS mode.
When you lose sats, you lose horizontal position holding but nothing else.
Atti Mode is P-GPS mode without satellites.

In case I haven't made it clear enough, there is no switching from one mode to another.
There is simply losing the horizontal position holding that GPS data provides.

If you use Airdata, you'll see Atti-GPS used instead of P-GPS
That's a clue that P-GPS is really just Atti Mode + GPS.

Labroides Posted at 4-13 01:55
I understand it very complicated but I'll try one more time.
There is no switch from one mode to another.
P-GPS mode without satellites is Atti mode.

Yes, I'm aware what atti mode is - hence, AUTO switch to atti.

Labroides Posted at 4-13 01:55
I understand it very complicated but I'll try one more time.
There is no switch from one mode to another.
P-GPS mode without satellites is Atti mode.

"Switching" to ATTI mode is the terminology DJI uses, and what people are referring to in this thread. The MM manual refers to ATTI as a "Mode", exactly like Position, Sport or CineSmooth.

I would add, for clarity: on the P3S, only A-ATTI (ATTI mode manually selected by the pilot) was considered a "Mode", whereas P-ATTI was just considered one of the two variants of P-Mode (P-GPS and P-ATTI).
The MM instead refers to ATTI as "a fourth flight mode that the aircraft switches to in certain situations".

120ccpm Posted at 4-13 16:29
"Switching" to ATTI mode is the terminology DJI uses, and what people are referring to in this thread. The MM manual refers to ATTI as a "Mode", exactly like Position, Sport or CineSmooth.

[view_image]

"Switching" to ATTI mode is the terminology DJI uses
Unfortunately DJI documentation is hardly an authoritative source for accurate information.
I've provided more than enough explanation above but factual information isn't always popular in this forum.
Anyone is free to ignore it and use terminology that doesn't match what happens if that makes them happy.