I keep hearing all the stories about people losing their minis in winds 25mph+.  If the drone has a 60° tilt angle it can come back?  I notice my 1108 motor 4S quad has a hard time coming back (very hard time) even at a 45° bank into the high-winds.  I don't have a Mini but I would be going crazy trying to find a solution if I had one.

https://mavicpilots.com/threads/lost-my-mavic-mini-today-i-want-to-understand-what-happened.83407/?utm_source=weekly_email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=3-14-20

Pretty much all quads should be able to tilt more if allowed at the FC software.  I'd just suggest it for RTH and have it as a secondary option.  Allow greater bank angles for RTH in settings.

A lot of people don't know how drones work.  They just fly them and new people constantly fly them in situations in which the drone cannot handle.  Some people will remain out of the hobby forever.  I started w/ the Spark and that handled 29mph Beach winds like it was no big deal.  I then upgraded to the M2Z after.

If I started off w/ the Mini, I would've quit.

Hello and good day AntDX316. Thank you for giving out these information and for sharing your insights with regards to the DJI Mavic Mini matter. This matter has already been cascaded to our DJI R&D department. In addition the DJI Mavic Mini has a Maximum Wind Speed Resistance of 8 m/s ( Scale 4 ). Again, thank you for continuously supporting DJI and fly safe always.

Hitting the RTH option in the Mini actually takes it out of Sports Mode if you're flying in that mode, which makes it even more likely to be overcome by strong wind....  They could definitely improve its RTH capabilities...

Ian

DJI Stephen Posted at 3-14 11:04
Hello and good day AntDX316. Thank you for giving out these information and for sharing your insights with regards to the DJI Mavic Mini matter. This matter has already been cascaded to our DJI R&D department. In addition the DJI Mavic Mini has a Maximum Wind Speed Resistance of 8 m/s ( Scale 4 ). Again, thank you for continuously supporting DJI and fly safe always.

17mph isn't enough.  Not everyone is knowledgable enough to know this as no certification or licensing is passed before people are allowed to use the Mini.  We can get away with it w/ the Spark but we shouldn't be so ignorant to everyone else.  We should think from the super basics of nothing and go from there.

A 31mph drone handles 29mph winds “like it’s no big deal”? That sounds highly unlikely to me.

Ice_2k Posted at 3-15 01:14
A 31mph drone handles 29mph winds “like it’s no big deal”? That sounds highly unlikely to me.

That depends on which direction you fly.
Basic arithmetic strongly suggests that it wasn't a 29 mph wind.
Just the feel of a 29 mph wind on your face is enough to keep most people from attempting to launch.

I just throw my anemometer high in the air ; catching and do a read out of the max wind in m/s.
If > 8 than having a beer, not going to fly with my MM.   

cheers
JJB

Getting caught in winds that are to strong is not an excuse, tough luck maybe, but that’s about it .

AntDX316 Posted at 3-14 23:51
17mph isn't enough.  Not everyone is knowledgable enough to know this as no certification or licensing is passed before people are allowed to use the Mini.  We can get away with it w/ the Spark but we shouldn't be so ignorant to everyone else.  We should think from the super basics of nothing and go from there.

Thank you for the additional information you have shared with us AntDX316. This information is greatly appreciated. Again thank you for your valued support and fly safe always.

Ian in London Posted at 3-14 23:39
Hitting the RTH option in the Mini actually takes it out of Sports Mode if you're flying in that mode, which makes it even more likely to be overcome by strong wind....  They could definitely improve its RTH capabilities...

Ian

I used the pitch stick to push for faster RTH speed. The mini reached top speed of 46kph as reported by the on-screen telemetry in both P mode -> RTH and S mode ->RTH scenario. What is bad about RTH is if you do not push pitch or lost RC connection it is only going to do it with a top speed of 28.8kph when it is totally capable to do 46kph. I would choose a faster RTH speed than conserving battery during RTH. People can choose not to fly to 20% when hundreds of meters out but strong wind up there may not be obvious to pilots at ground level and better wind RTH wind resistance is needed.

Topic has been discussed at length here:
https://forum.dji.com/thread-207317-1-1.html
It was a bit of a learning journey for me, but at the end - if I had to re-phrase my request to DJI - I would simply ask for them to increase the max tilt angle allowed during Failsafe RTH. No need for a two-stage RTH (my original idea), nor to increase the RTH Speed: all we want is for the MM to automatically tilt more so it can make progress against stronger headwinds. It's worth noting that the pilot can manually push the MM to S-Mode angles during RTH, but of course this is not possible in case of Failsafe RTH.

120ccpm Posted at 3-15 15:25
Topic has been discussed at length here:
https://forum.dji.com/thread-207317-1-1.html
It was a bit of a learning journey for me, but at the end - if I had to re-phrase my request to DJI - I would simply ask for them to increase the max tilt angle allowed during Failsafe RTH. No need for a two-stage RTH (my original idea), nor to increase the RTH Speed: all we want is for the MM to automatically tilt more so it can make progress against stronger headwinds. It's worth noting that the pilot can manually push the MM to S-Mode angles during RTH, but of course this is not possible in case of Failsafe RTH.

I made a post about having an emergency RTH tilt angles last year but I don't have a Mini so I don't really care too much about going crazy pursuing.  If I had one that crashed I would be posting all the time.

I post it every now and then but it's just crazy that it doesn't get made.  It 100% doesn't matter if the camera is looking at the ground.  It's worse to lose your drone.  You can unlock the maximum angle values on other drones but I think the DJI Mavic Mini is built off another engine.

All DJI has to do is enable a secondary feature that users can uncheck or check that makes it where it can go up to 75° of tilt angle in an emergency for RTH.

Yep, although some old timers want to keep everything as is and let these drones fall into the ocean and pollute it further with junk plastic, we need a smarter solution. The drone is smart enough to know when it is not making progress in a fail-safe procedure, so let it ramp up the speed to accomplish it's goal. No sensible engineer on earth could argue against that. BSEE 1969.

AntDX316 Posted at 3-15 15:46
I made a post about having an emergency RTH tilt angles last year but I don't have a Mini so I don't really care too much about going crazy pursuing.  If I had one that crashed I would be posting all the time.

I post it every now and then but it's just crazy that it doesn't get made.  It 100% doesn't matter if the camera is looking at the ground.  It's worse to lose your drone.  You can unlock the maximum angle values on other drones but I think the DJI Mavic Mini is built off another engine.

All DJI has to do is enable a secondary feature that users can uncheck or check that makes it where it can go up to 75° of tilt angle in an emergency for RTH.

I don't think the MM has enough power to allow that much of an angle, but just switching from the current 20 degrees to 30 (achievable in S-Mode) would be good.

JJB* Posted at 3-15 02:13
I just throw my anemometer high in the air ; catching and do a read out of the max wind in m/s.
If > 8 than having a beer, not going to fly with my MM.   

  

120ccpm Posted at 3-15 19:47
All DJI has to do is enable a secondary feature that users can uncheck or check that makes it where it can go up to 75° of tilt angle in an emergency for RTH.

I don't think the MM has enough power to allow that much of an angle, but just switching from the current 20 degrees to 30 (achievable in S-Mode) would be good.

Is it really only 20°??

New pre-take off procedure.
1) Launch helium balloon.
2) Watch balloon as it goes up to planned drone flight altitude
3) If balloon:
goes straight up your good to fly
slowly drifts off you may or may not be okay to fly
4) Attempt to fly lite kite
5) If kite:
flops to ground you are good to fly close to ground
flies stick with kite and forget MM

120ccpm Posted at 3-15 15:25
Topic has been discussed at length here:
https://forum.dji.com/thread-207317-1-1.html
It was a bit of a learning journey for me, but at the end - if I had to re-phrase my request to DJI - I would simply ask for them to increase the max tilt angle allowed during Failsafe RTH. No need for a two-stage RTH (my original idea), nor to increase the RTH Speed: all we want is for the MM to automatically tilt more so it can make progress against stronger headwinds. It's worth noting that the pilot can manually push the MM to S-Mode angles during RTH, but of course this is not possible in case of Failsafe RTH.

Tilt angle is tied to speed. So is propeller thrust. You wanna make progress against strong wind you have to increase failsafe RTH's default speed to S mode top speed 46kph. For dji engineer it means both increasing motor rpm (thrust) and tilt angle.

Guorium Posted at 3-15 20:24
Tilt angle is tied to speed. So is propeller thrust. You wanna make progress against strong wind you have to increase failsafe RTH's default speed to S mode top speed 46kph. For dji engineer it means both increasing motor rpm (thrust) and tilt angle.

You cannot increase the speed if it's at maximum tilt.  You need more tilt unless you have a torquey setup that you can just accelerate even with 5° of tilt.  I've never seen so much tilt required on a small framed quad before.  You don't really know how much tilt angle is required compared to the very big ones.

AntDX316 Posted at 3-15 20:41
You cannot increase the speed if it's at maximum tilt.  You need more tilt unless you have a torquey setup that you can just accelerate even with 5° of tilt.

But why are you telling me this? Mini does not hit max tilt currently in failsafe RTH.

Guorium Posted at 3-15 20:47
But why are you telling me this? Mini does not hit max tilt currently in failsafe RTH.

It doesn't??  I didn't expect the design to be that bad.  How do you know it doesn't hit max tilt?

Guorium Posted at 3-15 14:35
I used the pitch stick to push for faster RTH speed. The mini reached top speed of 46kph as reported by the on-screen telemetry in both P mode -> RTH and S mode ->RTH scenario. What is bad about RTH is if you do not push pitch or lost RC connection it is only going to do it with a top speed of 28.8kph when it is totally capable to do 46kph. I would choose a faster RTH speed than conserving battery during RTH. People can choose not to fly to 20% when hundreds of meters out but strong wind up there may not be obvious to pilots at ground level and better wind RTH wind resistance is needed.

If you are going w/ the wind that doesn't really count.

AntDX316 Posted at 3-15 15:46
I made a post about having an emergency RTH tilt angles last year but I don't have a Mini so I don't really care too much about going crazy pursuing.  If I had one that crashed I would be posting all the time.

I post it every now and then but it's just crazy that it doesn't get made.  It 100% doesn't matter if the camera is looking at the ground.  It's worse to lose your drone.  You can unlock the maximum angle values on other drones but I think the DJI Mavic Mini is built off another engine.

All DJI has to do is enable a secondary feature that users can uncheck or check that makes it where it can go up to 75° of tilt angle in an emergency for RTH.
You should get a job as head of DJI's engineering design department.
One question ... if your drone tilts 75°, where is it going to get enough lift from to prevent it falling to the ground??

Labroides Posted at 3-15 21:43
All DJI has to do is enable a secondary feature that users can uncheck or check that makes it where it can go up to 75° of tilt angle in an emergency for RTH.
You should get a job as head of DJI's engineering design department.
One question ... if your drone tilts 75°, where is it going to get enough lift from to prevent it falling to the ground??

75° is enough.  I mean, you can even do 90° w/ enough power.

75° is crazy.
Almost impossible to fly straight over distance.

It's not a FPV racer, it's a flying camera.
Maybe 40-45° would be a reasonable goal.

AntDX316 Posted at 3-15 22:50
75° is enough.  I mean, you can even do 90° w/ enough power.

That is far fetched... It is a quad not a fixed-wing.

AntDX316 Posted at 3-15 22:50
75° is enough.  I mean, you can even do 90° w/ enough power.

Can you elaborate on how a quadcopter produces enough lift at 90° tilt???
Explain _1_ in the image below:



You should really educate yourself on basic aerodynamic principles ...

Keule Posted at 3-15 23:26
Can you elaborate on how a quadcopter produces enough lift at 90° tilt???
Explain _1_ in the image below:

If you are thinking soley from DJI manufactured drones you wouldn't understand.  You can make quads that got 165mph and beyond.


If you are high-enough altitude you can even 180° to the ground.

It's like trying to understand how to buy a $1B yacht working 40 hours a week or even winning the lottery not beyond $1B.  It can be done, just beyond the methods we are used to.  There are also a lot of other methods that exist that people aren't accustomed to that tech would eventually reveal in which it was going to but the coronavirus code executed by the creators put a stop to that or at least for now?

AntDX316 Posted at 3-15 23:52
If you are thinking soley from DJI manufactured drones you wouldn't understand.  You can make quads that got 165mph and beyond.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QOgUEbsoMw

Again, just answer my question (and BTW, it's the DJI Forum and about the Mini not about racing quads)

Keule Posted at 3-15 23:57
Again, just answer my question (and BTW, it's the DJI Forum and about the Mini not about racing quads)

With enough power, you can do 89.9999° of tilt and still have lift.  As to the calculations of the speed required to achieve level-flight, I do not have.

AntDX316 Posted at 3-16 00:09
With enough power, you can do 89.9999° of tilt and still have lift.  As to the calculations of the speed required to achieve level-flight, I do not have.

The first plane can do all kinds of things that the second one can't.
It's the same as the Mini ... it just doesn't have what it would take to make it do what some of the people here would like.
The Mini is a cheap low performance toy drone.
Making it tilt firther won't make it into a race machine.

AntDX316 Posted at 3-16 00:09
With enough power, you can do 89.9999° of tilt and still have lift.  As to the calculations of the speed required to achieve level-flight, I do not have.

No, you can't have enough lift with 89.999° tilt to fly at a given altitude.
Why? DJI quads only have a limited amount of power available (e.g. max. propeller RPM) and there is more to think about:
all kinds of drag which come with aerodynamics:  parasitic drag, (consisting of form drag, skin friction drag), lift-induced drag, and wave drag.

that's some solid dodging of the question right there ) But sure, "let's imagine the drone has infinite power", why not, seems constructive.......

This is also possible too.

AntDX316 Posted at 3-16 01:36
This is also possible too.
[view_image]

OK .. genius.
Now explain how that's at all relevant to the discussion?

Labroides Posted at 3-16 02:18
OK .. genius.
Now explain how that's at all relevant to the discussion?

It all relates to lift.

AntDX316 Posted at 3-16 02:30
It all relates to lift.

Yes ... and ??
Where's your hyper-tilted Mini going to get it's lift from???
Is convection going to keep it in the air?

ps ... the only correct response is to realise you got it wrong.
Don't try to continue the discussion with more rambling irrelevancise.

AntDX316 Posted at 3-15 22:50
75° is enough.  I mean, you can even do 90° w/ enough power.

A tilt angle of 75 is unrealistic for the MM, it simply doesn't have enough power. P-Mode is limited to 20 degrees, S-Mode to 30: from the logs, it seems autonomous RTH is around 20, and can be increased to 30 by the pilot. I find legitimate to ask DJI to increase the (autonomous) RTH angle to 25 or even 30 as we know the MM can do that, but we'll never see 75. These are aerial photography drones, not FPV racers.

IMHO, the Mini was rushed to market for the holidays, and has barely marginal power to do what "it can/supposed to do".....
Let alone "increasing the angle of attack"..
Just not there, battery, prop/motor/ESC combination.
All to be sub 250grm...

IMHO, the Mini was rushed to market for the holidays, and has barely marginal power to do what "it can/supposed to do".....
Let alone "increasing the angle of attack"..
Just not there, battery, prop/motor/ESC combination.
All to be sub 250grm...