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No CE Certification & No AirSense outside the USA
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wictor
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sbonev Posted at 5-13 12:55
yes but they give 2 transitional year for all non-compliant UAs an starting of this period 1 year after the new regulations come into effect, which will be 1st of July 2020...It seems like DJI won't need to pay for the certification until next year, so i doubt we will see it in Mavic Air 2.

I think this is good news. Once the new regulations officially apply, DJI will have to do something. They are market leaders and they won’t give up this position over regulations. Being compliant to the current regulations is a major selling pint.
5-13 13:10
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sbonev
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wictor Posted at 5-13 13:10
I think this is good news. Once the new regulations officially apply, DJI will have to do something. They are market leaders and they won’t give up this position over regulations. Being compliant to the current regulations is a major selling pint.

it is definitely a good news. though i didn't read thorough the whole doc, so i didn't see anything regarding the UA markings on new drones, and in some of the other documents there was something about that all new drones that are sold need to be UA class compliant after the new rules come into effect...so it depends what is the timeframe on that and if that changed also to come into effect one year later...i  am pretty sure given the current situation DJI won't be in a hurry to throw money for new certification if they can avoid it until last minute.
5-13 13:58
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DenisJ
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sbonev Posted at 5-13 12:55
yes but they give 2 transitional year for all non-compliant UAs an starting of this period 1 year after the new regulations come into effect, which will be 1st of July 2020...It seems like DJI won't need to pay for the certification until next year, so i doubt we will see it in Mavic Air 2.

I still have hope for it
I'm not giving up for it until 1st of July and I do hope for the best. And I am sure that DJI will want to be first with certification so that other companies don't get their piece of sales because of it.
5-13 15:33
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sbonev
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DenisJ Posted at 5-13 15:33
I still have hope for it
I'm not giving up for it until 1st of July and I do hope for the best. And I am sure that DJI will want to be first with certification so that other companies don't get their piece of sales because of it.

well me too, i can wait even more if needed, with all the crap of the virus and confinement, the mini is quite enough to play around, even for traveling after they open the borders. And having in mind how buggy was the mini release and the DJI Fly app, and how many bugs are still there, probably it will be best to wait for DJI to fix it, though i am not confident it will be so fast.
5-13 15:38
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With a heavy heart I think I'm going to stop myself buying the MA2 now on these grounds. I don't NEED a new drone as I have plenty of other toys and interests and a little Spark to continue playing with.  I WANT one though! By then the MA2 might have been added to the education discount scheme which would be good too (I'm a teacher).

In reality I'm not convinced the Airsense or CE certification will actually make a great deal of difference to me. My flying/filming is exclusively in very remote places with no one within miles and have no interest or intent to fly over built up places or uninvolved people, or I use it in  tripod mode about 6ft from me as a glorified camera on a dolly also in places away from members of the public. In fact the latter is my favourite use of a drone these days - the big high shot is overdone imo. All A3 zone on the new regs.

One question though - do we think that DJI will retrospectively go back and add C1 accreditation CE markings (and airsense) to newly manufactured versions of current models that meet the regs (and have the spec to have airsence added) or will that be reserved for new  models?
5-13 23:31
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sbonev
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Convert Posted at 5-13 23:31
With a heavy heart I think I'm going to stop myself buying the MA2 now on these grounds. I don't NEED a new drone as I have plenty of other toys and interests and a little Spark to continue playing with.  I WANT one though! By then the MA2 might have been added to the education discount scheme which would be good too (I'm a teacher).

In reality I'm not convinced the Airsense or CE certification will actually make a great deal of difference to me. My flying/filming is exclusively in very remote places with no one within miles and have no interest or intent to fly over built up places or uninvolved people, or I use it in  tripod mode about 6ft from me as a glorified camera on a dolly also in places away from members of the public. In fact the latter is my favourite use of a drone these days - the big high shot is overdone imo. All A3 zone on the new regs.

UA class cannot be added retrospectively and Airsense is hardware component, so in order to be added you'll have to send it back to DJI and they mentioned it will cost a fee.
5-14 01:14
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sbonev Posted at 5-14 01:14
UA class cannot be added retrospectively and Airsense is hardware component, so in order to be added you'll have to send it back to DJI and they mentioned it will cost a fee.

I don't think you have read correctly. I would not expect either.

I will wait to buy until the MA2 being sold in Europe has airsense and a C1 marking. I would not expect to buy now and have either of those features added to my used drone at a later date.
5-14 01:26
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djiuser_nM9PLjO8qAy5
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DenisJ Posted at 5-13 15:33
I still have hope for it
I'm not giving up for it until 1st of July and I do hope for the best. And I am sure that DJI will want to be first with certification so that other companies don't get their piece of sales because of it.

I'd really like to share your optimism, but I'm actually thinking this won't happen.

I contacted our local Aviation Authority (lba) about this whole...thing and they stated manufacturers are actually already able to certify their drones, not just after 1st of July, as DJI support likes to claim. And the CE markings also won't be mandatory after that specific Date, they will actually required after 31 December 2022, so pretty much in 3 Years. I highly doubt DJI will add the certification to the Mavic Air 2 ever, since it will be cheaper if they decide not to do this.

Regarding AirSense: DJI Support replied (they will give you another answer every time you ask, great job) to me, that they won't add AirSense to their Drones (specifically the Mavic Air 2) in Europe until it is actually required by law. So this whole "we will add AirSense to all Drones after 1st of January 2020" was likely to be just a PR stunt.  But I must state that the support person did not seem that competent, but this looks to me as a thing a big company would do. So just to clarify: this last paragraph is just speculation, probably not a official statement, but this is what they told me.
5-14 01:34
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madPav3L
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Hi,
I was looking to buy a drone, to be exact a MA 2 but after reading the forum I don't know what to do... The lack of EU certificate on this drone worries me. The thing is do I have any other option if I want to buy a drone now? Is there any other drone on the market in this price tag that does have the certificate and is similar in spec?The absence of ADS-B if fine for me, I can live with that.
5-15 23:56
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wictor
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madPav3L Posted at 5-15 23:56
Hi,
I was looking to buy a drone, to be exact a MA 2 but after reading the forum I don't know what to do... The lack of EU certificate on this drone worries me. The thing is do I have any other option if I want to buy a drone now? Is there any other drone on the market in this price tag that does have the certificate and is similar in spec?The absence of ADS-B if fine for me, I can live with that.
The only safe bet is a drone which is lighter than 250g, a Mavic Mini for example. Those stay in A1 even after the transitional period.
5-16 00:00
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djiuser_nM9PLjO8qAy5
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wictor Posted at 5-16 00:00
The only safe bet is a drone which is lighter than 250g, a Mavic Mini for example. Those stay in A1 even after the transitional period.

Well yes, but actually...no. The Mavic Mini would be a bad example. I think someone in here already mentioned this. You still need a license plate on your drone, which will weigh at least one gram, so a Mavic Mini (249g) + License plate (1g) would actually not be below 250 grams. So that particular one would already fly in A3.

On the other hand, who would realistically weigh your drone? I mean, if they're having a bad day, you're going to have a bad one, too, that's for sure.
5-16 01:54
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hallmark007
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djiuser_nM9PLjO8qAy5 Posted at 5-16 01:54
Well yes, but actually...no. The Mavic Mini would be a bad example. I think someone in here already mentioned this. You still need a license plate on your drone, which will weigh at least one gram, so a Mavic Mini (249g) + License plate (1g) would actually not be below 250 grams. So that particular one would already fly in A3.

On the other hand, who would realistically weigh your drone? I mean, if they're having a bad day, you're going to have a bad one, too, that's for sure.

It’s written on the side of your drone 249g, do you imagine that the drone police will be required to carry weighing scales as the hunt down those droners who flaunt the law. Whatever happened to a little bit of Savvy. Can the officer not use some common sense, maybe not because from what I read around here Common sense is not very common.
5-16 02:29
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jonny007
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djiuser_nM9PLjO8qAy5 Posted at 5-16 01:54
Well yes, but actually...no. The Mavic Mini would be a bad example. I think someone in here already mentioned this. You still need a license plate on your drone, which will weigh at least one gram, so a Mavic Mini (249g) + License plate (1g) would actually not be below 250 grams. So that particular one would already fly in A3.

On the other hand, who would realistically weigh your drone? I mean, if they're having a bad day, you're going to have a bad one, too, that's for sure.

... which will weigh at least one gram
If a plate is made of lead, it may weigh 1 g or more, true.

So that particular one would already fly in A3.
... and therfore it is treated in the same way as a 24.99kg drone, right ?
5-16 02:41
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Thr0nSK
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I think I'm going to buy the MA2 anyway. In 2 years time there will be the MA3 or something else I would like to upgrade to and I don't think that the units sold after June 1 will have the certification. So it's either wait for a long time or buy the drone as soon as possible and then sell it when the transition period is about to end.
5-16 03:22
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wictor
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Thr0nSK Posted at 5-16 03:22
I think I'm going to buy the MA2 anyway. In 2 years time there will be the MA3 or something else I would like to upgrade to and I don't think that the units sold after June 1 will have the certification. So it's either wait for a long time or buy the drone as soon as possible and then sell it when the transition period is about to end.

Who would buy your non-certified drone in 2 years? Especially when there will be certified Air2s on the market. If you are investing in an Air 2 now, it won't have much resell value.
5-16 06:39
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wictor
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djiuser_nM9PLjO8qAy5 Posted at 5-16 01:54
Well yes, but actually...no. The Mavic Mini would be a bad example. I think someone in here already mentioned this. You still need a license plate on your drone, which will weigh at least one gram, so a Mavic Mini (249g) + License plate (1g) would actually not be below 250 grams. So that particular one would already fly in A3.

On the other hand, who would realistically weigh your drone? I mean, if they're having a bad day, you're going to have a bad one, too, that's for sure.
Registration plates weigh significantly less than 1g. A nano registration plate weighs 0.18g. Even my Mini with an ND filter on stays below the 250g limit.
5-16 06:41
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patfish
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wictor Posted at 5-16 06:39
Who would buy your non-certified drone in 2 years? Especially when there will be certified Air2s on the market. If you are investing in an Air 2 now, it won't have much resell value.

Normally when a new DJI drone arrives  (in my case the Phantom 3 Pro and the Mavic AIR) I couldn't  wait until the batteries are charged to test it outside. But not this time... My MA2  is now 10 day on my desk and its still not activated and flown. I can't remember that a DJI drone has ever had that many question marks  like this Mavic AIR2.   

1) Against many tests the AIR2 is by far not the best or roundest release:
a) The AIR2 is now bigger (it's not a real "just in case" drone any more — for a lot of people that was the selling point NR1. of the AIR1)
b)  The video and image quality is not better than the AIR1!!!. In low light it has even more digital noise and worse textures than the AIR1 and the Mini!!!
c) 48Mp is a fake  — you get massive files but not noticeable better quality —  in not ideal conditions the quality of the 48Mp photos is (because of the noise) even worse than  the 12Mp pictures.
d) 8K Hyperlaps doesn't work well and makes no sense (files are massive but the quality is not better than 4k)
e)The AIR2 is not as durable as the AIR1 (Arms are not as massive + gimbal is not that protected)
f) No dual IMU and Compass
g) Still no Side-Sensors

2) The drone has lost with the FlyAPP a lot of important features:
a) No manual gimbal controls
b) No manual picture settings (sharpness!!!!, contrast, saturation)
c) No dynamic home point
d) No real gesture control in active tracking
e) Nothing like FlyTap (Waypoints) ...were you can focus only on the camera work
f) No new Quickshots

The only "real" PROS are:
a) 60fps (but not in Quickshots and Active Tracking — where I would need it mostly for actions)
b) Good Active Tracking/APAS <3 (but still without side-sensors??? So you probably will crash your drone with one of the autonomous modes very soon)
c) Better signal and fly time - but we paid for it with extra 450g (over the AIR1) (drone+controller + 3x batteries+ case) and less space in our backpacks.

The only PRO  without any CON is the way better noise level over the AIR1<3

3) We got no AirSense in Europe
4) We get (in Europe) new drones laws in July but have no CE1 sign on our new drone.

I'am pretty sure that all MA2 after July 2020 will have a CE1 sticker and so i will have no chance to sell my MA2 in two years when the MA3 comes out.

Im very disapointed about all that troubles - and so my MA2 will go back to DJI tomorrow!

I will watch from the distance what will happen with the AIR2 in the next few months and if it gets a CE1 sticker, AirSense and some fixes/new features in the FlyApp  ... I will maybe order it again.

DJI should have wait with the realeas in Europe until July and released it with CE1 certification, AIRSenses and a finshed/fixed FlyAPP.
5-26 15:25
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urbanweb
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djiuser_nM9PLjO8qAy5 Posted at 5-16 01:54
Well yes, but actually...no. The Mavic Mini would be a bad example. I think someone in here already mentioned this. You still need a license plate on your drone, which will weigh at least one gram, so a Mavic Mini (249g) + License plate (1g) would actually not be below 250 grams. So that particular one would already fly in A3.

On the other hand, who would realistically weigh your drone? I mean, if they're having a bad day, you're going to have a bad one, too, that's for sure.

I put a sticker on mine with my name, mobile no., operator and fly ID. Still 249g.
5-26 15:58
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urbanweb
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wictor Posted at 5-16 06:39
Who would buy your non-certified drone in 2 years? Especially when there will be certified Air2s on the market. If you are investing in an Air 2 now, it won't have much resell value.

They won’t do that.  None of the Air 2’s will get the certification.  Bought it, love it.  Makes no difference to me.  I don’t film people, other than me and family out in the countryside.  

Buy, it, enjoy it, then, when they bring the next one out, buy that too, or don’t!

No big deal
5-26 16:03
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B737ng
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As a new Air 2 owner, I must say Im very happy with the drone. The Airsense is not a deal breaker for me at all, since ADS-B is not yet mandatory in Europe which means that many many planes flying in EU airspace wont be visible to your AirSense even if you have the capable US version Mavic Air2. Most General aviation come fitted with Mode S transponders which ADS-B in your drone wont pick up as they lack of GPS positioning reports. You might pick up airliners or more modern aircraft , but thats about it. While ADS-B is a mandatory requirement in US, hence the Airsense will be more applicable .

For a general user like me, ( Had a Mavic Pro before) I find Air 2 is an awesome flyer. Its compact, its light, its quite and a peach to fly. For a regular flying up to 400/500ft chances of impact with a GA aircraft are slim to none. Unless you really plan on flying high and far away from you so you couldn’t hear it, but in the real world, not a deal breaker.

The only BAD thing for me is the FLY app. This app is just a horrible design, with lack of all major features we had in Go4 , they made this drone look like a kids toy thanks to a buggy FLY app.

Its still an expensive drone, and I feel like FLY app is the only thing  dragging this drone down for me.

Other then that, I have no other bad things to say. Its does a relatively good job with photos, High Dynamic range is excellent , even better then Mavic pro 1 and 2.

Lets hope DJI now improves the firmware, gives us the GO 4 app and this will be once cracking drone
5-26 16:11
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patfish
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urbanweb Posted at 5-26 16:03
They won’t do that.  None of the Air 2’s will get the certification.  Bought it, love it.  Makes no difference to me.  I don’t film people, other than me and family out in the countryside.  

Buy, it, enjoy it, then, when they bring the next one out, buy that too, or don’t!

I'am pretty sure that DJI will sell the MA2 around  July with that new CE1 sticker :-/  ... and does who have bought  it now will have real problems to sell it in 2 years for the MA3. I think DJI really should have wait until July with the relase of the bird in europe! (becaus of the CE1 sign and the not finished FlyAPP)
5-26 16:20
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urbanweb
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patfish Posted at 5-26 16:20
I'am pretty sure that DJI will sell the MA2 around  July with that new CE1 sticker :-/  ... and does who have bought  it now will have real problems to sell it in 2 years for the MA3.

I disagree.  My opinion is that they would have waited if, and certified all the air 2’s.  It does not make any business sense to ostracise early adopters.  I’ve never sold a gadget I’ve bought when I upgrade, always give them to family, or friends, so not an issue for me.
5-26 16:24
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patfish
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urbanweb Posted at 5-26 16:24
I disagree.  My opinion is that they would have waited if, and certified all the air 2’s.  It does not make any business sense to ostracise early adopters.  I’ve never sold a gadget I’ve bought when I upgrade, always give them to family, or friends, so not an issue for me.

I think they have to do that ;-)  ... because if other drones enter the market with CE1 certification the AIR2 will not sell that good anymore ...but its brand new and will be on the market until 2022.
5-26 16:28
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urbanweb
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patfish Posted at 5-26 16:28
I think they have to do that ;-)  ... because if other drones enter the market with CE1 certification the AIR2 will not sell that good anymore ...but its brand new and will be on the market until 2022.

We shall see!  If I knew you in real life I’d happily put a wager on it!  I also thing it isn’t beyond possibility that the rules may change, and retrospective certification will be allowed.  DJI are the most savvy drone manufacture in the world.  
5-26 16:38
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patfish
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urbanweb Posted at 5-26 16:38
We shall see!  If I knew you in real life I’d happily put a wager on it!  I also thing it isn’t beyond possibility that the rules may change, and retrospective certification will be allowed.  DJI are the most savvy drone manufacture in the world.

Hehe ... i hope so! ...but I don't trust that much, so I send my AIR2 back and wait until we know more ;-)
5-27 03:06
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Mailliw_Sirrom
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urbanweb Posted at 5-26 16:38
We shall see!  If I knew you in real life I’d happily put a wager on it!  I also thing it isn’t beyond possibility that the rules may change, and retrospective certification will be allowed.  DJI are the most savvy drone manufacture in the world.

There are unanswered question about that retrospective CE UAV certification as the MAV2 are most likely in production after july 1st.

In other CE regulations/certifications a "thing" will not receive a CE certification retrospectively because that "thing" is no longer manufactured, what they need to do to get CE-certification is to start production again.

And that is a tangible difference that perhaps will be addressed sooner or later.  
5-27 10:01
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savplaysbass
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Ian, been watching your stuff for a few weeks. Didn't see the one about CE regs though! Still never mind love the air 2, just a shame about the restrictions which lay ahead. I'm hoping the EU never get down to this issue for a long time...or dji can do the honorable thing and try to find a solution. Still that said, carry on with the videos, you know your stuff and I find them very helpful
5-30 09:50
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Ulli01
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Mailliw_Sirrom Posted at 5-11 14:13
If we would assume that your interpretation is correct.

Can you then explain how you would be able to launch the drone with A1/A3 license?

Of course:
Under Article 22 you are NOT allowed to launch the drone with a A1/A3 license!
Very simple...
6-3 08:17
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Ulli01
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Mailliw_Sirrom Posted at 5-11 14:44
Article 22 would say that the drone has to weigh more than 2kg up to 25kg, hence the Air 2 would be to light ... it just wouldn't make sense.

A legacy drone that weighs 570 gram can be operated under either A2 or A3 (but a legacy drone that weighs more than 2 kg wont be able to operate under A2 category.)

I don't now what you are talking about?
Art. 22 (b) refers to a weight of 500g or more and less than 2kg!
A drone with this weight (Air2 as far as I remember with 570g?) can under this circumstances be flown with a minimum distance from "people" (NOT uninvolved persons!!) of 50m, IF the pilot has a license acc. to A2.
There is no question, if you can fly this drone under Art. 22 with a A1/A3-License, cause it is just not allowed!
6-3 08:30
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Ulli01
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Mailliw_Sirrom Posted at 5-11 14:06
(I realise that have mostly used "in force" when it should be applies.)

If EU would postpone the date I guess it will be announced here:

This is a EU-Regulation that becomes directly the law of the states!
So there is no way for a single state to postpone this regulation!
Still 01.07.2020!!
6-3 08:34
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Ulli01
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sbonev Posted at 5-13 12:55
yes but they give 2 transitional year for all non-compliant UAs an starting of this period 1 year after the new regulations come into effect, which will be 1st of July 2020...It seems like DJI won't need to pay for the certification until next year, so i doubt we will see it in Mavic Air 2.

The term "starting one year after the date of entry into force of this Regulation" out of Art.22 means, that the two year period startet one year after the 01 Jul. 2019, the date the regulation become in force!
So the two year period starts at the beginning of July this year.
Starting with that date, you have to keep an distance of 50m to all people (incl. the Pilot!) and you have to be in possession of a license acc. to A2!

Just 27 days left...
6-3 08:41
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Ulli01
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Mailliw_Sirrom Posted at 5-27 10:01
There are unanswered question about that retrospective CE UAV certification as the MAV2 are most likely in production after july 1st.

In other CE regulations/certifications a "thing" will not receive a CE certification retrospectively because that "thing" is no longer manufactured, what they need to do to get CE-certification is to start production again.

Art. 16 (4) of Regulation 2019/945 reads:
"The CE marking and, when applicable, the indication of the sound power level and the UA class identification label shall be affixed before the product is placed on the market."

So there will be no "retrospective CE UAV certification"!
6-3 09:01
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Rijschool Compass
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Oke i am f*ckd now, i have selled my mavic mini fly more combo.. and have buy the air 2 a great upgrade in netherlands.. and now i see al the comments about this drone..
Is this means my mavic air 2 doenst take off anymore after 2 years?
6-3 15:26
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hallmark007
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Ulli01 Posted at 6-3 08:34
This is a EU-Regulation that becomes directly the law of the states!
So there is no way for a single state to postpone this regulation!
Still 01.07.2020!!

Well you got that wrong !!!! Foot in mouth...
6-5 04:23
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hallmark007
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Ulli01 Posted at 6-3 08:41
The term "starting one year after the date of entry into force of this Regulation" out of Art.22 means, that the two year period startet one year after the 01 Jul. 2019, the date the regulation become in force!
So the two year period starts at the beginning of July this year.
Starting with that date, you have to keep an distance of 50m to all people (incl. the Pilot!) and you have to be in possession of a license acc. to A2!

Not 27 days left now...
6-5 04:24
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djiuser_nM9PLjO8qAy5
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Ulli01 Posted at 6-3 08:17
Of course:
Under Article 22 you are NOT allowed to launch the drone with a A1/A3 license!
Very simple...

You are actually allowed to fly a drone with the A1/A3 license, but then you will be flying under the regulations of A3. Article 22 is actually just optional, so you could fly under A2 with the only condition being, that you keep a distance of 50m to people, if you have the A2 license. And this is only valid until 1st July 2021 (i think, not sure about that date). Otherwise you'll be restricted to A3 with an existing drone. This is what our Aviation Authority told me.  I mean, it would be best for anyone who still has questions about the regulations, to just ask their local Aviation Authority. They will help you for sure and give you the right answers.
6-5 04:24
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Ulli01 Posted at 6-3 08:41
The term "starting one year after the date of entry into force of this Regulation" out of Art.22 means, that the two year period startet one year after the 01 Jul. 2019, the date the regulation become in force!
So the two year period starts at the beginning of July this year.
Starting with that date, you have to keep an distance of 50m to all people (incl. the Pilot!) and you have to be in possession of a license acc. to A2!

We just got an additional 6 months...

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg_impl/2020/746/oj

Thijs
6-5 04:38
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B737ng
lvl.3
Flight distance : 297106 ft
Ireland
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After doing some homework on this Airsense and looking at various Air 2 teardown images and videos, both US & EU models actually appear to have the same hardware.
Theres 2 possible options that could be.

The ADS-B module is either built into the controller or its a software limitation , that could possibly work similar to an Flight radar and requires live internet connection .

I have done some testing on my remote and have come across a strange finding. I have spoofed the GPS location to US and while playing with it around my house I got an option to enable/disable Airsense!
The switch was fully functional.  

Bear in mind this was the EU UK spec drone Air 2.

6-6 08:21
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Ian in London
Captain
Flight distance : 2433209 ft
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United Kingdom
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B737ng Posted at 6-6 08:21
After doing some homework on this Airsense and looking at various Air 2 teardown images and videos, both US & EU models actually appear to have the same hardware.
Theres 2 possible options that could be.

Did you enable it?  Would be good to see if it actually worked!
6-6 12:19
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Mailliw_Sirrom
lvl.3
Flight distance : 373510 ft
Sweden
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Ulli01 Posted at 6-3 08:34
This is a EU-Regulation that becomes directly the law of the states!
So there is no way for a single state to postpone this regulation!
Still 01.07.2020!!

... they just postponed it.
6-6 12:38
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