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ATTI mode ( tape over downwrads camera )
1043 24 2020-5-19
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philgib
lvl.4

France
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Hello,

Has anyone tried to fly OUTDOOR with a piece of tape on the vision system camera ?
Would everything related to compass and RTH work properly ?

Watch the herebelow video to understand what I am talking about :



Thank you

2020-5-19
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Woe
Captain
Flight distance : 4129268 ft
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United States
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Good find. Thanks for sharing
2020-5-19
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wee.minidrone
lvl.3
Flight distance : 146512 ft
United States
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how do you land if you have tape on? is it all manual?
2020-5-19
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Vlas
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United States
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I've done this but never on a RTH.
2020-5-19
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NatureDigital
Captain
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United States
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Thanks for sharing this!
2020-5-19
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jonny007
Captain
Germany
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I had 17 or 18 satellites on my last flight with taped sensors, so the accuracy was very high. If it is in close proximity to the bottom, it is, I would say "nervous", but really only a little. Slight twitches in centimeter range, nothing more. I guess these will increase a little if the number of satellites decreases. If you fly higher you don't notice any difference. You can really fly 1 or 2 inches above the ground and the landing is instantaneous. Left Joystick down, done. If you land with sensors, it takes about 2 or 3 seconds until the drone finally touches down. What I haven't tried is autolanding and how the behavior is. Maybe there will be a message that you should land manually.
2020-5-19
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Labroides
Captain
Flight distance : 9991457 ft
Australia
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Would everything related to compass and RTH work properly ?
Blocking the downward facing sensors won't put the Mini in atti mode.
It won't have any effect on compass or GPS.
It just blocks the downward facing sensors!!

The only purpose of this is to get around the 5 metre altitude limitation when GPS is not available because you are flying under a roof etc, and VPS is available.
There wouldn't be much reason to do this outdoors.
If you are flying where GPS is not available, RTH won't work.


2020-5-19
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Balooo
lvl.4
Flight distance : 123921 ft
Italy
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Labroides Posted at 5-19 16:04
Would everything related to compass and RTH work properly ?
Blocking the downward facing sensors won't put the Mini in atti mode.
It won't have any effect on compass or GPS.

Couldn't that prevent the unwilled descent when flying over water at low altitude ?
2020-5-19
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deathsquad
First Officer
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Australia
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A good way to lose your drone to be honest...
2020-5-19
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Labroides
Captain
Flight distance : 9991457 ft
Australia
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Balooo Posted at 5-19 17:35
Couldn't that prevent the unwilled descent when flying over water at low altitude ?

Only if the uncommanded descent is due to the downward facing sensors.
Most uncommanded descents with the Mini had nothing to do with downward facing sensors.
2020-5-19
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Balooo
lvl.4
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Labroides Posted at 5-19 17:51
Only if the uncommanded descent is due to the downward facing sensors.
Most uncommanded descents with the Mini had nothing to do with downward facing sensors.

Ok, let me guess: are they related to the propellers issue now solved by last firmware  ?
Or is there another reason ?
I got scared last february flying low over a lake and I would like to avoid landing in the water but still whishing to fly low over water..
2020-5-19
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m80116
Captain
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Italy
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If the VPS engages on the water surface you're less likely to hit the water... but problems of uncommanded descents are unrelated to this experiment.

You may want to tape the sensor should you have to pass through something (possibly w/ cage on) to prevent the sensor from engaging and causing a height increase. It remains a silly makeshift way to do a pass.
2020-5-19
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jonny007
Captain
Germany
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Balooo Posted at 5-19 18:11
Ok, let me guess: are they related to the propellers issue now solved by last firmware  ?
Or is there another reason ?
I got scared last february flying low over a lake and I would like to avoid landing in the water but still whishing to fly low over water..

What is low for you ?

I don't understand why most people are afraid to fly over water. Especially with taped sensors it is optimal. As I said several times, the greatest danger is to fly slowly or hover and with VPS sensors. In the worst case, these could take the bottom of the lake or the river as a reference point (if very clear water) and thus report an incorrect height. This danger does not exist with taped sensors.

One more thing: you don't have to provoke it and stop quickly while flying over water. This could cause an abrupt descent of a few centimeters. If you are only 10 cm over the water surface, then the descent would be enough to dive ;-)

2020-5-20
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thE29
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Austria
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Balooo Posted at 5-19 18:11
Ok, let me guess: are they related to the propellers issue now solved by last firmware  ?
Or is there another reason ?
I got scared last february flying low over a lake and I would like to avoid landing in the water but still whishing to fly low over water..

This 2 things still have nothing in common..

If you fly to low, you can trigger AUTO-landing when you push the drone even lower. But you can abort that, if you are fast.

The problems users had, was that the drone just auto-decents without any input and even didnt stop, when controlled in the other direction.


For the first point, there should be an option in the settings, to disable auto-landing. And to make it safe, it could reset each time you land.
2020-5-20
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Balooo
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Italy
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jonny007 Posted at 5-20 03:01
What is low for you ?

I don't understand why most people are afraid to fly over water. Especially with taped sensors it is optimal. As I said several times, the greatest danger is to fly slowly or hover and with VPS sensors. In the worst case, these could take the bottom of the lake or the river as a reference point (if very clear water) and thus report an incorrect height. This danger does not exist with taped sensors.

First of all, thanx for you advice..
I never tried yet taped sensors, so low, for me, was something around 50cm (18'), less than 1m for sure
As I was in fpv, recoding ducks :-), I didn't notice the uncontrolled descent at first, my daughter told me just in time.. That's why I'm asking for infos, advices: I would apreciate to avoid that in the future, as I plan to continue low flights over water, for how they give amazing shots and movies
2020-5-20
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philgib
lvl.4

France
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Balooo Posted at 5-20 11:46
First of all, thanx for you advice..
I never tried yet taped sensors, so low, for me, was something around 50cm (18'), less than 1m for sure
As I was in fpv, recoding ducks :-), I didn't notice the uncontrolled descent at first, my daughter told me just in time.. That's why I'm asking for infos, advices: I would apreciate to avoid that in the future, as I plan to continue low flights over water, for how they give amazing shots and movies

I wonder whether a very bright sun reflection coming vertically from the water down below could affect the VPS' understanding of land proximity and trigger the auto-land procedure.
@baloo : something else to mention:

I took away the MM "eyes" stickers to add some internal leds which I withdrew later on since it was drawing too much current and somehow the cables I connected inside were affecting the GPS sensibility ( less satellites caught).

I kept the eyes away as I figured out it may allow some airflow inside thus act as a coolant.
BUT my 6-year long  experience building my own drones taught me that any airflow inside may affect the barometer ( as it deals with analysing pressure) and may have some temporary impact on the height calculation.

Do you have your MM's eyes closed or opened ?  :-)


2020-5-21
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benjdour
lvl.4
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Canada
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Nice tips
2020-5-21
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Balooo
lvl.4
Flight distance : 123921 ft
France
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philgib Posted at 5-21 03:09
I wonder whether a very bright sun reflection coming vertically from the water down below could affect the VPS' understanding of land proximity and trigger the auto-land procedure.
@baloo : something else to mention:

The first time, I noticed the uncommanded descents, the drone was in stock conditions
I tried both: first were the DJI "stickers" on the "eyes", then I removed them and set strobon led pads green and red, white one (with autonomous battery) sticked on the battery cover at the back
Never noticed gps issues, maybe few compass calibration messages (not sure they're due to my additional wires, as plenty of others users complain about that, without the strobon devices, and I was having those notifications even before)
For the air circulation, I don't think that changes much: the stickers were not letting that much air blow in, so do my led pads and, anyway, there are still back and lower aerations
The strobon solution is very powerfull and does not drain main MM battery, really cool, I'm able to locate the drone much easier in all conditions !
And the weight is still light: 249g. Here, in Italy, it's mandatory to stick a qr-code for identification (and to register it on d-flight website) on the drone ^^ (and one day a transponder ! I hope they'll abandon that, at least for the under 300g drones !) Bureaucracy is a way of life, down here ;-D
Even with the PGYTech Landing Gear Extensions, it does not exceed 266.4g..
Anyway I passed the french and italian online "license" and it's still much less than with the propellers protection !
By the way, yours look good and light, maybe I'll follow you, on this point !

2020-5-21
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jonny007
Captain
Germany
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Balooo Posted at 5-20 11:46
First of all, thanx for you advice..
I never tried yet taped sensors, so low, for me, was something around 50cm (18'), less than 1m for sure
As I was in fpv, recoding ducks :-), I didn't notice the uncontrolled descent at first, my daughter told me just in time.. That's why I'm asking for infos, advices: I would apreciate to avoid that in the future, as I plan to continue low flights over water, for how they give amazing shots and movies

I would recommend trying it on a meadow first so that you become familiar with the behavior. Tape sensors and very important: after switching on and before taking off, make sure that you have enough satellites (13, 15 or more). Then take off and fly back and forth slowly at a height of 1 meter. Go deeper and watch how the mini reacts. It will probably become slightly "nervous" when hovering. If you fly a little faster or higher, this nervousness disappears and it flies stable as always. Always keep an eye on the drone near the ground and correct it if necessary with the control sticks.
2020-5-21
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Montfrooij
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Flight distance : 2133671 ft
Netherlands
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Interesting find.
Never tried it.
Never will
2020-5-22
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philgib
lvl.4

France
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wee.minidrone Posted at 5-19 10:45
how do you land if you have tape on? is it all manual?

I guess you land on your hand, catch the MM and turn it vertically 90 degrees to switch the engines off.
2020-5-22
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jonny007
Captain
Germany
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philgib Posted at 5-22 09:48
I guess you land on your hand, catch the MM and turn it vertically 90 degrees to switch the engines off.

Left joystick down like any normal landing. The only difference is that the drone at about 30 cm height does not pause to "scan the ground" as usual, but descends until it touches down. In the video I let the Mini hover at a height of about 10-15 cm (which is not possible with VPS sensors), then it ascends a few cm and finally I pull the left joystick down (intentionally a bit faster, so it looks like emergency stop CSC ;-) ). After touchdown, I hold the joystick down for 2 seconds so that the motors stop.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/ ... 7uNlqru6mtGRkv/view
2020-5-23
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philgib
lvl.4

France
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jonny007 Posted at 5-23 09:58
Left joystick down like any normal landing. The only difference is that the drone at about 30 cm height does not pause to "scan the ground" as usual, but descends until it touches down. In the video I let the Mini hover at a height of about 10-15 cm (which is not possible with VPS sensors), then it ascends a few cm and finally I pull the left joystick down (intentionally a bit faster, so it looks like emergency stop CSC ;-) ). After touchdown, I hold the joystick down for 2 seconds so that the motors stop.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pQ59eRXt9-lQaseB5g7uNlqru6mtGRkv/view

Great tips thanks
2020-5-25
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3Recon
First Officer
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United States
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jonny007, Great example of what your speaking of. but if I tried catching that in my palm there going to be a incident if not my hand my Mini when it turns into a rock.
2020-5-26
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jonny007
Captain
Germany
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3Recon Posted at 5-26 18:00
jonny007, Great example of what your speaking of. but if I tried catching that in my palm there going to be a incident if not my hand my Mini when it turns into a rock.

Don't worry, in the example I did the landing "a little faster" for the demonstration. ;-) For a landing in your hand, you should of course pull the left joystick back a little more sensitively. You just have to know that the drone will land immediately, without delay. I recommend trying it on a landing pad first to become familiar with how the drone reacts when landing.
2020-5-26
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