hallmark007 Posted at 8-28 10:01
Yeah I think because battery life is so good there shouldn’t be to much of a problem with Air 2. I certainly wouldn’t like to be constantly changing Rth or forgetting what I have set. Only thing I might change is height and as you said earlier you can set new HP .

Exactly mate. Active track for 20 minutes, pull over and land the drone manually. Swap the battery, reset the home point and off you go.

Rustic17 Posted at 8-28 07:27
So why did they add the options of RTH, hover and descend for loss of signal??  If anything, loss of signal means you can't control the drone, yet they're giving you the option of RTH, hover or descend...that to me doesn't make a lot of sense.  Why would you want it to hover or descend if you have no control over it???  Unless you think you might get signal back...and that's a big gamble.    And hovering after a Low Battery RTH over water or a ravine just gives you time to take over manually...I don't think many people would select the descend option.  It's going to land anyway at the Critical Battery alert.

So why did they add the options of RTH, hover and descend for loss of signal??
The options for Loss of Signal (it's not RTH) were added to the Mini to belatedly bring it in line with all other DJI drones.
There are special situations in which they might be appropriate.
But for most users, in most situations, only one option makes any sense.
And that's the option which is the factory default.

Dirty Bird Posted at 8-28 08:17
I believe Hover & Land were added to accommodate indoor flyers.  Both options are disasters waiting to happen if used in most outdoor flying situations.

Not really. I was very glad they added those options. Now I can use it from a moving boat without it trying to land back where it started....in the water. But maybe it wouldn't do that since the MA2 seems to very averse to water ;-)

A lot of you guys keep saying what is best for MOST users. If we were all the same clones, we would need NO options at all.

Labroides Posted at 8-28 17:54
So why did they add the options of RTH, hover and descend for loss of signal??
The options for Loss of Signal (it's not RTH) were added to the Mini to belatedly bring it in line with all other DJI drones.
There are special situations in which they might be appropriate.

How is Lost Signal with Return to Home selected not the same as Failsafe RTH???  If you have Return to Home selected in Advanced Safety Settings and lose signal, it flies the Failsafe RTH profile as described on page 14 of the manual, doesn't it???  If you have Descend selected, I'm not sure what it does...land, maybe???  And if you have Hover selected and lose signal, it just hovers until you give it manual commands.  Just trying to figure this all out.  Again, the manual is sorely lacking information regarding these Advanced Safety Settings (bottom of page 38).

Rustic17 Posted at 8-28 20:07
How is Lost Signal with Return to Home selected not the same as Failsafe RTH???  If you have Return to Home selected in Advanced Safety Settings and lose signal, it flies the Failsafe RTH profile as described on page 14 of the manual, doesn't it???  If you have Descend selected, I'm not sure what it does...land, maybe???  And if you have Hover selected and lose signal, it just hovers until you give it manual commands.  Just trying to figure this all out.  Again, the manual is sorely lacking information regarding these Advanced Safety Settings (bottom of page 38).

  
Just  trying to figure this all out.  
There's not much to sort out.
DJI have done a fairly good job making it effective and elegantly simple so that it works and is understandable.
There's no need to complicate it by adding odd, special requests for those that don't appreciate the simplicity.

If you have Return to Home selected in Advanced Safety Settings  and lose signal, it flies the Failsafe RTH profile as described on page  14 of the manual, doesn't it???
Why do you need to ask?
If you really don't know, go to a large open area, fly 100 feet away and turn your controller off and watch what happens.

If you have Descend selected, I'm not  sure what it does...land, maybe???
Really?  If you don't know, you can test and find out.

And if you have Hover selected and  lose signal, it just hovers until you give it manual commands.
At least you worked that one out

How is Lost Signal with Return to Home selected not the same as Failsafe  RTH???
You are looking for complications where they don't exist.
Lost Signal with Return to Home selected is literally what Failsafe RTH is.

Labroides Posted at 8-28 22:24
Just  trying to figure this all out.  
There's not much to sort out.
DJI have done a fairly good job making it effective and elegantly simple so that it works and is understandable.

How is Lost Signal with Return to Home selected not the same as Failsafe  RTH???
You are looking for complications where they don't exist.
Lost Signal with Return to Home selected is literally what Failsafe RTH is.

My "complication" was reading your Reply #52 when you said "The options for Loss of Signal (it's not RTH)..."   My subsequent reply was just to clarify that Loss of Signal (with Return to Home selected) is Failsafe RTH versus "not RTH" like you said.

Rustic17 Posted at 8-29 00:22
How is Lost Signal with Return to Home selected not the same as Failsafe  RTH???
You are looking for complications where they don't exist.
Lost Signal with Return to Home selected is literally what Failsafe RTH is.

My "complication" was reading your Reply #52 when you said "The options for Loss of Signal (it's not RTH)..."   My subsequent reply was just to clarify that Loss of Signal (with Return to Home selected) is Failsafe RTH versus "not RTH" like you said.
Whatever point you're trying to make escapes me.

Rustic17 Posted at 8-29 00:22
How is Lost Signal with Return to Home selected not the same as Failsafe  RTH???
You are looking for complications where they don't exist.
Lost Signal with Return to Home selected is literally what Failsafe RTH is.

There is a big difference in failsafe rth. In failsafe RTH craft will first fly backwards for 50 of its orignal route, before flying directly home

1. If the aircraft is less than 20 m from the Home Point, it flies back to the Home Point at the current altitude.
2. If the aircraft is further than 20 m from the Home Point and the current altitude is higher than the preset RTH
altitude, it flies back to the Home Point at the current altitude.
3. If the aircraft is further than 20 m from the Home Point and the current altitude is lower than the preset RTH altitude, it ascends to the preset RTH altitude and then flies back to the Home Point.

Normal Rth craft will rise to preset Rth and fly directly home.

hallmark007 Posted at 8-29 07:37
There is a big difference in failsafe rth. In failsafe RTH craft will first fly backwards for 50 of its orignal route, before flying directly home

1. If the aircraft is less than 20 m from the Home Point, it flies back to the Home Point at the current altitude.

So how do we know what Loss of Signal with Return to Home selected will do if the manual has no information on it???  What you're saying is it will do a Smart RTH versus a Failsafe RTH.  But where are you getting your information???  It's not in the manual from what I can see on pages 38-39.  I, for one, am uncomfortable turning off my RC to see what happens...and you'd have to throw in an obstacle in the equation to see if it follows the Failsafe protocols.  And you wouldn't be able to stop it if it doesn't follow those protocols.

Added:   Loss of signal is loss of signal...what criteria do you think would cause a Smart RTH versus a Failsafe RTH with loss of signal???

Rustic17 Posted at 8-29 08:38
So how do we know what Loss of Signal with Return to Home selected will do if the manual has no information on it???  What you're saying is it will do a Smart RTH versus a Failsafe RTH.  But where are you getting your information???  It's not in the manual from what I can see on pages 38-39.  I, for one, am uncomfortable turning off my RC to see what happens...and you'd have to throw in an obstacle in the equation to see if it follows the Failsafe protocols.  And you wouldn't be able to stop it if it doesn't follow those protocols.

Page 14. HM007 info is from the MA2 manual and is correct.

A J Posted at 8-29 08:44
Page 14. HM007 info is from the MA2 manual and is correct.
[view_image]

Well yeah...his info is correct...we all know that.  But he's saying it's going to fly a Smart RTH with loss of signal when Return to Home is selected in Advanced Safety Settings.  I'm saying I think it will fly a Failsafe RTH.  The Failsafe RTH is for loss of signal...the Advanced Safety Settings just allows you to modify what the drone is going to do.  If you have Return to Home selected it follows the Failsafe protocols...if you have Hover selected it hovers.  Loss of signal is loss of signal...if hallmark007 is correct (and he does have a lot more experience than me in drones) then with loss of signal how does the drone know to Smart RTH as hallmark007 says or Failsafe RTH as the manual says???

Added:  The bottom line is the manual doesn't tell us either way.

Rustic17 Posted at 8-29 08:54
Well yeah...his info is correct...we all know that.  But he's saying it's going to fly a Smart RTH with loss of signal when Return to Home is selected in Advanced Safety Settings.  I'm saying I think it will fly a Failsafe RTH.  The Failsafe RTH is for loss of signal...the Advanced Safety Settings just allows you to modify what the drone is going to do.  If you have Return to Home selected it follows the Failsafe protocols...if you have Hover selected it hovers.  Loss of signal is loss of signal...if hallmark007 is correct (and he does have a lot more experience than me in drones) then with loss of signal how does the drone know to Smart RTH as hallmark007 says or Failsafe RTH as the manual says???

Added:  The bottom line is the manual doesn't tell us either way.

The difference between Smart and failsafe RTH is merely that the loss of signal initiates the latter. When that happens the drone will retrace it's route for 50m and if signal is not regained during that period then the drone follows the straight line RTH procedure in the same way as Smart RTH.

Failsafe-hover and Failsafe-land are not RTH procedures as the drone is not returning anywhere. Failsafe and RTH are separate functions - with failsafe-RTH being a setting in the app that combines the two. There is no such setting as RTH-hover - the drone can't RTH when it's hovering...

A J Posted at 8-29 09:09
The difference between Smart and failsafe RTH is merely that the loss of signal initiates the latter. When that happens the drone will retrace it's route for 50m and if signal is not regained during that period then the drone follows the straight line RTH procedure in the same way as Smart RTH.

Failsafe-hover and Failsafe-land are not RTH procedures as the drone is not returning anywhere. Failsafe and RTH are separate functions - with failsafe-RTH being a setting in the app that combines the two. There is no such setting as RTH-hover - the drone can't RTH when it's hovering...

Page 12 has a section titled Return to Home.  In the first paragraph it says there are three types of RTH: Smart RTH, Low Battery RTH and Failsafe RTH.  So when you say "Failsafe and RTH are separate functions" I don't know what you mean.  The real confusion for me is understanding Loss of Signal in the Advanced Safety Settings and loss of signal in the Failsafe RTH description.  What happens if you lose signal?? With loss of signal and Return to Home selected in Advanced Safety Settings, Hallmark007 thinks the MA2 will fly a Smart RTH profile.  I think it will fly the Failsafe RTH profile.  What do you think???

Rustic17 Posted at 8-29 08:38
So how do we know what Loss of Signal with Return to Home selected will do if the manual has no information on it???  What you're saying is it will do a Smart RTH versus a Failsafe RTH.  But where are you getting your information???  It's not in the manual from what I can see on pages 38-39.  I, for one, am uncomfortable turning off my RC to see what happens...and you'd have to throw in an obstacle in the equation to see if it follows the Failsafe protocols.  And you wouldn't be able to stop it if it doesn't follow those protocols.

Added:   Loss of signal is loss of signal...what criteria do you think would cause a Smart RTH versus a Failsafe RTH with loss of signal???

Smart Rth, is what we would call normal Rth, controller initiates it. Craft rises to set height and flys direct line home and lands at homepoint. Failsafe you can read below, it’s in the manual and it works you can test without obstacles just fly simple figure of 8 turn off RC and wait you will see craft fly backwards. It’s pretty good and quite safe.

Rustic17 Posted at 8-29 09:26
Page 12 has a section titled Return to Home.  In the first paragraph it says there are three types of RTH: Smart RTH, Low Battery RTH and Failsafe RTH.  So when you say "Failsafe and RTH are separate functions" I don't know what you mean.  The real confusion for me is understanding Loss of Signal in the Advanced Safety Settings and loss of signal in the Failsafe RTH description.  What happens if you lose signal?? With loss of signal and Return to Home selected in Advanced Safety Settings, Hallmark007 thinks the MA2 will fly a Smart RTH profile.  I think it will fly the Failsafe RTH profile.  What do you think???

Failsafe = signal loss

RTH = the drone returns to the preset point on the map that the pilot has designated as the home point where he or she intends to land - usually the take off point unless changed in flight.

When the manual states failsafe RTH it means a combination of the two. When signal is lost, the drone RTH. In the advanced settings you can change failsafe to hover or land which has nothing to do with RTH.

As HM007 pointed out, when signal is lost the drone retraces its previous flight path by 50m in the hope that by doing so the signal will regain and the pilot can cancel RTH and resume the flight without losing the original flight path/composition. If the signal is not regained the drone will stop retracing and RTH - the specifications of how it does that is listed in post 61 from the manual which is exactly what HM007 wrote in post 59.

With Smart RTH the drone will do exactly the same except that it will not retrace it's path for 50m after you initiate RTH by pressing and holding the HP button on the RC or tapping the RTH icon on the FPV screen.

hallmark007 Posted at 8-29 09:34
Smart Rth, is what we would call normal Rth, controller initiates it. Craft rises to set height and flys direct line home and lands at homepoint. Failsafe you can read below, it’s in the manual and it works you can test without obstacles just fly simple figure of 8 turn off RC and wait you will see craft fly backwards. It’s pretty good and quite safe.

[view_image]

So in your example of flying a figure 8 and turning off the RC, what setting did you have in Advanced Safety Settings???  If you had Return to Home selected as most of us do, then the drone in your example started into a Failsafe RTH, not a Smart RTH as you described in Reply #59.  And my original statement that Loss of Signal with Return to Home selected is the same as Failsafe RTH is correct.  I really respect both you and A J as sources of much clarification in this forum.  Your Reply #59 confused me.

A big thanks to both A J and hallmark007 for clarifying in my mind what is going to happen with loss of signal.  Sorry, OP, for getting this thread off your original intent.  

Rustic17 Posted at 8-29 09:56
So in your example of flying a figure 8 and turning off the RC, what setting did you have in Advanced Safety Settings???  If you had Return to Home selected as most of us do, then the drone in your example started into a Failsafe RTH, not a Smart RTH as you described in Reply #59.  And my original statement that Loss of Signal with Return to Home selected is the same as Failsafe RTH is correct.  I really respect both you and A J as sources of much clarification in this forum.  Your Reply #59 confused me.

You just need to fly away at a distance you can still see drone have craft lower than set Rth height, then just switch off RC and you will see Failsafe Rth and how exactly it works...... it won’t fail ;+)..::::

Rustic17 Posted at 8-29 09:56
So in your example of flying a figure 8 and turning off the RC, what setting did you have in Advanced Safety Settings???  If you had Return to Home selected as most of us do, then the drone in your example started into a Failsafe RTH, not a Smart RTH as you described in Reply #59.  And my original statement that Loss of Signal with Return to Home selected is the same as Failsafe RTH is correct.  I really respect both you and A J as sources of much clarification in this forum.  Your Reply #59 confused me.

And my original statement that Loss of Signal with Return to Home selected is the same as Failsafe RTH is correct.
Of course it is, because Loss of Signal with the default LOS action (RTH) is literally Failsafe RTH as it explains in the manual under Failsafe RTH.
Why complicate things?

A J Posted at 8-29 09:43
Failsafe = signal loss

RTH = the drone returns to the preset point on the map that the pilot has designated as the home point where he or she intends to land - usually the take off point unless changed in flight.

Hi AJ,

Interesting all this about RTH etc, but is the outcome of my test inline with the manual??

I did few tests on my MA2.

In a normal flight i did powered down my RC, multiple times to cover the Advanced Safety Settings "Return to Home, Descend and Hover"
On the video the Descend and Hover tests.

Switched off my RC to simulate a loss of connection between craft and RC, so like the FailSafe RTH in the manual.
Advanced setting to Return to Home - after switching off RC - Craft flew back to homepoint.
Advanced setting to Hover - after switching off RC - Craft just hovered
Advanced setting to Landing - after switching off RC - Craft initiated a landing.

For the last 2 no difference in action less or more than 20 meters away from homepoint.

BTW last advanced setting is stored (guess in the craft) and used for the next flight after powering up the drone.
(so now part of my pre flight checklist ; check advanced settings for the upcoming flight)

PS ofcoure when distance < 20 meters from HP it should not RTH but Autoland. (copy/paste error in the vid)

cheers
JJB

JJB* Posted at 9-12 01:02
Hi AJ,

Interesting all this about RTH etc, but is the outcome of my test inline with the manual??

So if you switch off your RC whilst in flight the drone returns to the homepoint in either of these settings irrespective of the setting and distance to the HP? Have you tried flying your out until the signal to the device (not the RC) is lost?

A J Posted at 9-12 01:17
So if you switch off your RC whilst in flight the drone returns to the homepoint in either of these settings irrespective of the setting and distance to the HP? Have you tried flying your out until the signal to the device (not the RC) is lost?

no, if the Advanced Safety Setting is set to Hover or Descend;  when loosing signal (i simulate that by switching of the RC) my MA2 did not returned to home but did Hover or Descend.

I did not fly out so far that i lost comms, to far ofcourse with the 100% chance of loosing my MA2 while not RTH but...

video is on the way in prevoius post  ;-)

cheers
JJB

JJB* Posted at 9-12 01:53
no, if the Advanced Safety Setting is set to Hover or Descend;  when loosing signal (i simulate that by switching of the RC) my MA2 did not returned to home but did Hover or Descend.

I did not fly out so far that i lost comms, to far ofcourse with the 100% chance of loosing my MA2 while not RTH but...

So it performed how it should based on the manual.

A J Posted at 9-12 01:57
So it performed how it should based on the manual.

well, if your read page14 of the manual than the text is correct IF the advanced setting is set to RTH.

I think DJI should enter a warning there, explaining that if setting is set to Hover / Descend this will change the behaviour of the fail safe RTH.

cheers
JJB

JJB* Posted at 9-12 02:11
well, if your read page14 of the manual than the text is correct IF the advanced setting is set to RTH.

I think DJI should enter a warning there, explaining that if setting is set to Hover / Descend this will change the behaviour of the fail safe RTH.

Of course it will IF it's not it will perform what is selected. Checking I've set failsafe to RTH is part of my preflight check.

A J Posted at 9-12 03:46
Of course it will IF it's not it will perform what is selected. Checking I've set failsafe to RTH is part of my preflight check.

yes, if it is clear to all users how FailsSafe RTH works in relation to the advanced settings.
I got the impression that not all in this thread have the same opinion how it works.

cheers
JJB

JJB* Posted at 9-12 04:23
yes, if it is clear to all users how FailsSafe RTH works in relation to the advanced settings.
I got the impression that not all in this thread have the same opinion how it works.

Then they’ll learn the hard way mate. Set it to hover and lose signal a couple of miles away over the sea and bye-bye drone.

JJB* Posted at 9-12 04:23
yes, if it is clear to all users how FailsSafe RTH works in relation to the advanced settings.
I got the impression that not all in this thread have the same opinion how it works.

I think "Descend" is a poor choice of words.  Did you find it actually lands???  Which would make the option Land versus Descend.

Rustic17 Posted at 9-12 07:32
I think "Descend" is a poor choice of words.  Did you find it actually lands???  Which would make the option Land versus Descend.

see my video at 3m48, decsend is decend to land ; this time it asked fro my confirmation (uneven ground) but normally it just land.

So agree with you than "LANDING" would be better than the current "DESCEND".

cheers
JJB

I would love a RTH simply on the path it flew to get to that point.

I want a similar software change for the Mini 2. My drone will attempt to return to home at 49% battery, and it ruins many videos because I have to take my thumbs off the stick to cancel the action.

Malakai_UK Posted at 2020-8-28 10:00
DJI, did you actually read my post? Your reply makes me think you didn’t. Such a shame.

His job is to put up the smokescreen.

Labroides Posted at 2020-8-27 15:47
The issue is the RTH kicking in on low battery.
The pilot of any flying machine needs to be aware of the limitations of his aircraft and fly within those limitations to prevent potential risks becoming actual problems.
I don't know ... perhaps you could plan ahead and if you cannot avoid flying your drone in hazardous environments, maybe avoid flying down to low battery level in hazardous environments ?

Does DJI pay you to produce this simpering drivel, as if you're the only monkey that thought of this?

djiuser_A97TrzKt25vH Posted at 7-18 15:18
Does DJI pay you to produce this simpering drivel, as if you're the only monkey that thought of this?

DJI pays me about the same they pay you, you ignorant git.

I’m sitting here reading this thread and all of the debate. Having just lost my drone to a crash under trees, I can tell you it wouldn’t have happened if I had a choice as to what happens when the battery gets low.

Jeffyk Posted at 3-12 07:20
I’m sitting here reading this thread and all of the debate. Having just lost my drone to a crash under trees, I can tell you it wouldn’t have happened if I had a choice as to what happens when the battery gets low.

Hi,

Really knowing your drone needs time....

RTH due to low battery to fly safely to home goes via a 10 to 0 countdown.
So 10 seconds to cancel this using the pause/rth button.
If your are too late, than at climbing stick down or (better) use the cancel btn ; craft will hover!

Better is not to fly under trees or objects etc with low battery values.....

cheers
JJB

Jeffyk Posted at 3-12 07:20
I’m sitting here reading this thread and all of the debate. Having just lost my drone to a crash under trees, I can tell you it wouldn’t have happened if I had a choice as to what happens when the battery gets low.

Just as a matter of interest what do you mean by "lost" e.g. destroyed, or you can not find it, or you can not get to it?