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johansenfoto
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CemAygun Posted at 9-15 11:34
There is already an unboxing video, and it looked a bit big to my eye. And I could not get the deal with the case/box. I thought it would come with a usable hard case like Mavic Air, but no, the whole shipping box itself is a giant case with a lot of wasted space. To me it did not look like it can be used daily...Weird...

I see.
Yes the box is a bit big for daily carrying.
9-15 11:39
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Fishycomics
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its LARGER  and that says a lot.
9-15 15:55
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CemAygun
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Fishycomics Posted at 9-15 15:55
its LARGER  and that says a lot.

Well I believe Hero 8 was slightly larger than (naked) OA already, and Hero 9 seems to be noticeably larger than H8, so it should be seriously bigger than OA....
9-15 17:26
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peiter
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Dji need to look at what insta do with the one r, which as i understand it is essential lesser hardware.
There is a lot to learn for the dji camera division.

IMO the GP 9 are not that much larger than the GP 8, if you have problems with that you should talk to someone
9-15 17:42
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Fishycomics
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We are talking to some one. if you're referring to taking Meds, be my guess.  Coffee wins
9-16 03:17
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johansenfoto
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"If the leaked price is €479 then it will be a bit more expensive in Norway, probably closer to €550. "

My guess was not far away, the price in Norway is €506 so pretty expensive
9-16 09:02
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CemAygun
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johansenfoto Posted at 9-16 09:02
"If the leaked price is €479 then it will be a bit more expensive in Norway, probably closer to €550. "

My guess was not far away, the price in Norway is €506 so pretty expensive

Yes it has $50 higher inital price In one of the revews they mention that there is a way to get it $100 cheaper, but it might be a US only thing. I think you need to use their cloud service for a month or something. Which suggests that the price will eventually drop (as they can afford to sell at that price) but I don't know how soon that will be.

The camera looks great by the way; it basically has everything requested from OA in this forum I will be getting it as soon as it becomes available here but I will be keeping the OA as well because of the size/weight (for FPV drone mounting)

PS: The box/case thingy is quite useless as we suspected by the way. Once you remove the plastic inside it becomes a giant empty case...

9-16 10:53
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Fishycomics
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$450  chose to opt out the  plus pkg,
$350  for it all
$549 retail.
And guess when the Hype dies down it be $400 sale      
9-16 11:14
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CemAygun
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Fishycomics Posted at 9-16 11:14
$450  chose to opt out the  plus pkg,
$350  for it all
$549 retail.

Thanks a lot for the info. What they are doing is a bit confusing. I guess the $350 price including 1 year subscription (that everybody is talking about) was a "limited offer". I could not find it...
9-16 12:43
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CemAygun
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Good comparison samples including OA and insta360 1" in some instances:



No affiliation with the channel by the way, found it online...
9-16 13:20
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Fishycomics
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read the terms. and its terrortorial.   


Terms + Conditions

Offer valid from September 16th, 2020, at 6:00 a.m. PDT and will continue until GoPro terminates the program in its sole discretion. The Subscribe to GoPro Bundle discount applies with a new purchase of an annual subscription to GoPro combined with a purchase of a full-priced HERO9 Black, MAX, or HERO8 Black (collectively “Subscribe to GoPro Bundle”) in a single transaction at gopro.com. Discount applies once all items are placed in the cart. Limit: one per customer. Current GoPro subscribers not eligible for the offer. In the event that you cancel your subscription before the end of the initial year term but keep your camera, and in so doing, fall below the threshold for eligibility for this offer, we will reduce any applicable refund owed to you by the full retail price of the camera and reserve the right to charge your payment method for any remaining balance owed to GoPro. There is no free trial period and there will be no pro-rated refunds for cancelled subscriptions. For EU customers, you will have a 14 day free trial period and may return your subscription, subject to the terms of the Subscribe to GoPro Bundle. Offer cannot be combined with any other offers, discounts or promo codes, or applied to previous purchases. No cash alternative. Offer subject to change without notice. Purchases subject to additional terms and conditions presented at checkout.


9-16 14:43
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CemAygun
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Fishycomics Posted at 9-16 14:43
read the terms. and its terrortorial.   

EDIT: I had to use VPN to see the deal, as you said it is regional. I am going to buy it from US and ship to US, so no problem.
9-16 15:20
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johansenfoto
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CemAygun Posted at 9-16 13:20
Good comparison samples including OA and insta360 1" in some instances:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHm0L2qnUx0

Thanks for the video.
What I see, Gopro 9 have a little more wider FOV and Hypersmooth looks the same.
But with wider FOV you need less stabilization for the same result, so I think Hypersmooth 3 is a gimmick.

The sharpness is not really that much better, it is better but I think Insta360 1" would be sharper in right condition (but Insta360 have the worst stabilization).

With Gopro 9 you have to pay another $125 for ND-filters (less if you only buy one).

OA do a good job with Rocksteady, but the lack of sharpness is noticeable.
9-17 01:05
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Fishycomics
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History repeats itself with GoPro.  Do not get me wrong. I think different then others.  I feel this is a GP-1 chip, same Hero 8 camera, same Hero 8 in the Hero 9 Yes that Stuck on LED and bat removal Lol sorry  that is Issue number 1.
9-17 05:16
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johansenfoto
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Fishycomics Posted at 9-17 05:16
Histgory repeats itself with GoPro.  Do not get me wrong. I think different then others.  I feel this is a GP-1 chip, same Hero 8 camera, same Hero 8 in the Hero 9 Yes that Stuck on LED and bat removal Lol  sorry  that is Issue number 1.

Not sure if I did understand you right, but I am not a Gopro fanboy, never been and never going to be.
The problem with Gopro is that they make something little bit new and most people is really excited about it even if other brands does it better or had if long time before. Just like iPhone vs Android
9-17 09:11
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love & hate relation ship on anything.

I will not defend gopro. or DJI  I buy what I want.   since I am not buying a H9B I have   reasons not shared via video.  right now  I should use my cameras I own and  I am entitled to talk......  Smartphones  well that is what is in these suckers.
9-17 09:51
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CemAygun
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johansenfoto Posted at 9-17 01:05
Thanks for the video.
What I see, Gopro 9 have a little more wider FOV and Hypersmooth looks the same.
But with wider FOV you need less stabilization for the same result, so I think Hypersmooth 3 is a gimmick.

You're welcome There was one slight bit I could tell Hypersmooth 3 from 2 and that was when the camera was not moving (the lake scene). HS3 looked as if the camera was on a tripod. Probably they just optimized it to differentiate between smooth motion and non-moving camera, but still a neat trick.

5K zooms also baffled me. It is a significantly higher resolution than 4K (about 1.7 times higher) but the zoom samples did not look that defined (although they were better than 4K). I did not do the math, but there is a chance the sensor/lense combo could be hitting the diffraction limit way below 5K. First few 4K GoPro's could barely resolve 2.7K so they are shameless about putting out products like that.

A 1" sensor should outperform all,  "should" being the operative word here. These cameras are %20 hardware and %80 software. At the moment GoPro seems to have nailed the software whereas OA suffers from inexplicable negligence.

Although it seems the $350 price is for US only at the moment, it might be the general price soon . I have read in the forums that they are already breaking their own rules; the promo should be only for new cloud subscribers but apparently they allow the old subscribers to buy from $350 as well. At that price point I think it is a very good deal. At $450 or more, I am not so sure...

I generally don't like GoPro as a company. Their philosophy has always been to use the cheapest, oldest hardware they can get away with and compensate for it through advertising. And thanks to their enormous fanboy base, it has worked so far. With the help of paid press and their fanboy army the smallest things they do becomes a big deal. I have seen people bragging about the Hero 9 front screen LOL. That being said, every once in a while they get certain things right.

The bottom line is, these cameras are all means to an end and if one does not get you to that end, you buy the other one

Sorry for the long post,

Cheers

9-17 12:29
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johansenfoto
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CemAygun Posted at 9-17 12:29
You're welcome  There was one slight bit I could tell Hypersmooth 3 from 2 and that was when the camera was not moving (the lake scene). HS3 looked as if the camera was on a tripod. Probably they just optimized it to differentiate between smooth motion and non-moving camera, but still a neat trick.

5K zooms also baffled me. It is a significantly higher resolution than 4K (about 1.7 times higher) but the zoom samples did not look that defined (although they were better than 4K). I did not do the math, but there is a chance the sensor/lense combo could be hitting the diffraction limit way below 5K. First few 4K GoPro's could barely resolve 2.7K so they are shameless about putting out products like that.

It's ok with the long post because had some really good points there.
The lake clip at the end is where I also think HS3 did perform really good, and that look as stable as tripod or even OA.
GP9 did better than GP8 in low light, but not really that I was amazed.

The funny part is, a lot of people here in Norway sell their GP8 now almost at full price as new since GP8 price have got down really much last 2 days.
9-17 12:52
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MKosmo
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Watching the comparisons, the gp9 looked a marginally improved image over the gp8.  To me I think the significant advantage was the horizon levelling within the stabilisation,,

The gp8 seemed better in low light picking out more detail than the newer gp9, is this maybe due to the extra pixels ? Ie less light per pixel ? ( for the same image sensor size )

I still think the OA is leagues ahead in the usability , vfm,  screen size / response  etc .... just a shame the image is lacking detail  compared to the GP .
9-17 13:19
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johansenfoto Posted at 9-17 12:52
It's ok with the long post because had some really good points there.
The lake clip at the end is where I also think HS3 did perform really good, and that look as stable as tripod or even OA.
GP9 did better than GP8 in low light, but not really that I was amazed.

Thank you The second hand market will be a total mess if they continue this $350 promo (which I hope they do). They have announced a new model which is better in every way than the old one (except the size and weight, that I can see being a problem for some) and you can buy it for $350 in US  - or imported from US if you live outside.

It still is not as bad as the nVidia situation where people are trying to sell their $1200 graphics cards for $500 since the upcoming line's announcement. Apparently the new $500 model will be better than the current $1200 model

Progress always comes at a cost, and more often than not, at the consumer's expense

9-17 15:09
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CemAygun
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MKosmo Posted at 9-17 13:19
Watching the comparisons, the gp9 looked a marginally improved image over the gp8.  To me I think the significant advantage was the horizon levelling within the stabilisation,,

The gp8 seemed better in low light picking out more detail than the newer gp9, is this maybe due to the extra pixels ? Ie less light per pixel ? ( for the same image sensor size )

Horizon levelling also caught my attention. After using Osmo Pocket (and Mavic Air) for so long, I ruined many shots with the Action at first  because I lost the habit of manually checking for it. Seems kind of handy...

Pixel for pixel, H9 would be much worse than H8 or OA because of much smaller photosite size; but the 23MP picture mode is the only time you would ever see it. Everything else would be binned (combining a bunch of pixels into one). Some phones claim to have better low light performance compared to bigger pixel sensors of the same size by using advanced algorithms in combining those pixels. I honestly don't know.

Osmo Action is a great camera, which has the hardware of an almost "perfect" camera. It is just a shame to see it deprived of things it could have done...
9-17 15:33
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MKosmo
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CemAygun Posted at 9-17 15:33
Horizon levelling also caught my attention. After using Osmo Pocket (and Mavic Air) for so long, I ruined many shots with the Action at first  because I lost the habit of manually checking for it. Seems kind of handy...

Pixel for pixel, H9 would be much worse than H8 or OA because of much smaller photosite size; but the 23MP picture mode is the only time you would ever see it. Everything else would be binned (combining a bunch of pixels into one). Some phones claim to have better low light performance compared to bigger pixel sensors of the same size by using advanced algorithms in combining those pixels. I honestly don't know.

Likewise , quite a few videos I’ve done have suffered from horizon issues, it’s not easy to maintain a perfectly level handheld shot.

Possibly a lot of pixels are used for this feature.

Out of curiosity, what  are the things that you think the osmo is deprived of ?
9-18 06:52
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Fishycomics
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I like hte old style types of vids where say  the level is not there, so imagine on a private plane you Barral roll. camera face out/you. the Fun can be different.    up the res for HL to keep the lower set. so if I were to  do 4K HL I should be doing 5K to have 4K???? thinking out loud....   
9-18 07:12
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CemAygun
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MKosmo Posted at 9-18 06:52
Likewise , quite a few videos I’ve done have suffered from horizon issues, it’s not easy to maintain a perfectly level handheld shot.

Possibly a lot of pixels are used for this feature.

Well it is a huge list, but from the top of my mind:

In camera HDR photo: Bracketing is good, but there is absolutely no reason for the hardware of OA to be incapable of in camera HDR stills.

Selectable stabilization level: Current stabilization is binary, yet it has changed over time, so it is obviously adjustable. It comes at an insane cost of resolution. OA could have had selectable levels of stabilization so that the user can prioritize depending on the situation.

Long exposure time lapse: Although OA can easily do long exposure timelapses in the manual mode, auto mode stops way short of the maximum duration it actually can attain.

Control over wireless functions: It is hard to believe that OA cannot turn it's wifi and bluetooth off. It has been requested multiple times, not only to save battery, but also for safety (you can use a gopro on a plane but not an OA).

Honestly the list goes on and on. Just look at the firmware request threads here. Most of them make sense and seem doable. Some might sound ridiculous at first (like asking for a wider FOV via firmware update) but even those might be achieved within a certain context. For instance a selectable level of stabilization will give you a wider FOV at at expense of the stabilization quality if one choses to do so.

OA is not as "artificially" crippled as the Pocket, but it still is. I wish they did not drop the price so low, kept a bigger profit margin and continued fixing and updating the software. I believe apart from 5K recording it could have come pretty close to Hero 9 despite being the previous generation.
9-18 13:59
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CemAygun
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Fishycomics Posted at 9-18 07:12
I like hte old style types of vids where say  the level is not there, so imagine on a private plane you Barral roll. camera face out/you. the Fun can be different.    up the res for HL to keep the lower set. so if I were to  do 4K HL I should be doing 5K to have 4K???? thinking out loud....

Depends on how much of an an angle they are willing to correct. Regular stabilization (HS or RS) already includes tilt correction, as well as planar motion compensation. When there is a prolonged tilt, it is deemed intentional and not corrected. The only thing HL needs to do is to persistently continue correcting the tilt and keep the horizon "level".

Unless HL allows a higher amount of tilt to be corrected, it won't crop in much more than Hypersmooth or Rocksteady does. Also, at least on paper, Hero 9 Has enough "extra resolution" to crop into and yet still have enough pixels left on the sensor for 4K (maybe even for 5K). Unlike Osmo Action, you will loose FOV but not resolution.
9-18 14:09
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Again I like the tilt in vids at times  it give  story, then having everything LOCKED level.  for example was not talking specifications and technical, talking say watch Texasranger, and see what I mean.
9-19 02:15
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MKosmo
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CemAygun Posted at 9-18 13:59
Well it is a huge list, but from the top of my mind:

In camera HDR photo: Bracketing is good, but there is absolutely no reason for the hardware of OA to be incapable of in camera HDR stills.

Yes it does seem strange. Since so many things could be fixed or improved in firmware.  Most are not even complex changes required.   You would have thought a few more firmware improvements to scoop up some potential GoPro buyers at this time.

Or just release the sdk, imagine the open source firmware variations that would happen - would be awesome !
9-19 02:41
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Fishycomics Posted at 9-19 02:15
Again I like the tilt in vids at times  it give  story, then having everything LOCKED level.  for example was not talking specifications and technical, talking say watch Texasranger, and see what I mean.

Oh definitely for some scenes you don’t want HL,  but at least have the option of on or off.
9-19 02:42
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CemAygun Posted at 9-18 14:09
Depends on how much of an an angle they are willing to correct. Regular stabilization (HS or RS) already includes tilt correction, as well as planar motion compensation. When there is a prolonged tilt, it is deemed intentional and not corrected. The only thing HL needs to do is to persistently continue correcting the tilt and keep the horizon "level".

Unless HL allows a higher amount of tilt to be corrected, it won't crop in much more than Hypersmooth or Rocksteady does. Also, at least on paper, Hero 9 Has enough "extra resolution" to crop into and yet still have enough pixels left on the sensor for 4K (maybe even for 5K). Unlike Osmo Action, you will loose FOV but not resolution.

I think there is a table in the manual of the correction and it’s upto 40 degrees.

On the GP8 it can be done within the app and trying it, it works brilliantly except for one major downfall - the crop is tied to the tilt correction, so you end up with level footage but zooming in and out proportional to the tilt.  
9-19 02:46
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MKosmo Posted at 9-19 02:41
Yes it does seem strange. Since so many things could be fixed or improved in firmware.  Most are not even complex changes required.   You would have thought a few more firmware improvements to scoop up some potential GoPro buyers at this time.

Or just release the sdk, imagine the open source firmware variations that would happen - would be awesome !

That would have carried the hardware to a different level, especially the Osmo Pocket. OP has so many little yet very crucial things missing, it feels intentional. Most of them are obviously not hardware limitations.

For instance you can program a path, in camera (or in the app) for timelapses. You can manually control the motion of the camera during regular video recording from the app. But although it has been requested maybe half a dozen times, you cannot program a path for regular video. That function alone could have carried the OP to a different plane.  

As you said, ideally they should release the SDK and let the 3rd party developers do it if they don't want to...

This baffled my mind up until recently. Planning to buy  the H9 (and tipped off by Fishycomics) I dug deeper into GoPro forums; and I found out exactly why DJI does not bother at all. While we complain about lack of simple functions, some GoPro owners (which have almost all these functions) complain about coming home and seeing that half the videos they thought they have recorded are not there. Apparently H8 can feel hot and give up recording without a single warning And it seems to be not too keen on cold either... H9 so far has total black out issues (which luckily can be remedied by pulling the battery out) and I have even seen a post claiming that HL stops working after a certain amount of time.

So basically GoPro has to make a better working camera first, so that DJI will has a competition to worry about and bother to address our issues
9-21 13:24
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CemAygun
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MKosmo Posted at 9-19 02:46
I think there is a table in the manual of the correction and it’s upto 40 degrees.

On the GP8 it can be done within the app and trying it, it works brilliantly except for one major downfall - the crop is tied to the tilt correction, so you end up with level footage but zooming in and out proportional to the tilt.

Thank you for the info, 40 degrees will cause a lot of cropping. I understand they would not want to keep the maximum crop which would accommodate the full 40 degrees at all times (that would be brutal); but zooming in and out might hurt the video more than an unlevel horizon I guess

I would rather have user selectable levels of maximum correction with fixed crops. I wonder what H9 does...
9-21 13:34
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Fishycomics
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Livestream will be improved I bet.  to HD1080P and  a better platform.
9-30 03:15
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BoozaWooza
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What's the normal product cycle for dji?
9-30 10:18
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Fishycomics
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first gen OA  so if the Pocket is releasing a P2 soon the OA2 will follow .  ask DJI they won't say.
9-30 11:31
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I’ve just received a Hero 9. Found out that the audio adapter worked before the first update but the stabilisation didn’t. Updated and the stabilisation came on but the mic adapter was no longer there, so at the moment, we’re being forced to buy a Media Mod.
The first update came straight out on release and now of course, GoPro are working on the next update to fix a list of problems culminating next year with the GoPro 10.

On top of that, there is the thick makeup look remaining in the picture.

Plus live pixels in 4k that stay on.

And the stabilisation goes to pot in lower light. Also, the stabilisation affects detail fairly significantly. Details get worse on the left of the screen than the right.

The front screen is laggy.

It runs a bit warm to say the least.

Mine only froze four times on a single walk of 30 minutes, so we have an average of a lock up every 7 minutes.

Then it froze while charging and while it was switched off overnight! The battery never hit 100%.

Apart from this it’s a great camera .............. not.

If an Osmo Action 2 appeared with just two things changed ...... close focus for proper vlogging. A decent stereo mic input. They would kill the Hero 9 because at £425 or so, the GoProis currently one of the biggest let downs I’ve seen from them.

In fact, I preferred the Hero 5 to anything since.

If only Osmo made a move now, they could take the top spot imo.
9-30 12:00
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Iancraig10 Posted at 9-30 12:00
I’ve just received a Hero 9. Found out that the audio adapter worked before the first update but the stabilisation didn’t. Updated and the stabilisation came on but the mic adapter was no longer there, so at the moment, we’re being forced to buy a Media Mod.
The first update came straight out on release and now of course, GoPro are working on the next update to fix a list of problems culminating next year with the GoPro 10.

So much problems with Gopro 9, that is not good.
I heard some people mention before that their Gopro 8 (or was it 7) that used to freeze.
10-2 02:37
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Fishycomics
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total let down.   so the funds I saved, and  can sell off I clearly get a OA2 in November 2020 Rumors are P2 Oct 2020 but DJIis dead to the world on this news.
10-2 08:43
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peiter
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When dji send me a OA2 for free i will believe it, until then i sit on my rainbow and film the unicorns as they prance past me.
10-2 09:49
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CemAygun
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BoozaWooza Posted at 9-30 10:18
What's the normal product cycle for dji?

I am pretty sure they don't have one, which IMHO is better than coming up with a new product with no improvements just for the sake of doing so.

Mavic air was a one time product for instance which was never updated (They ridiculously kept the "Air" name but the new product is neither small, nor light weight. It is just a "Mavic", not "Air")

Mavic Mini, on the other and is getting replaced in less than a year.

So pretty unpredictable...
10-2 14:22
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Iancraig10 Posted at 9-30 12:00
I’ve just received a Hero 9. Found out that the audio adapter worked before the first update but the stabilisation didn’t. Updated and the stabilisation came on but the mic adapter was no longer there, so at the moment, we’re being forced to buy a Media Mod.
The first update came straight out on release and now of course, GoPro are working on the next update to fix a list of problems culminating next year with the GoPro 10.

I have been following the Gopro forums. My impression is that the release was rushed. Although some issues seem like they can be fixed via firmware updates, some outright look like hardware/quality problems. This might be the last nail in Gopro's coffin...
10-2 14:29
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