We wait... DJI won't upgrade software, and slow to release full SDK for 3rd parties to provide navigation/photo solutions.  The first "Blackberry" drone maker of our era.  Too bad!
Dave


Edit: Production SDK should be seperate from experimental SDK.That the full capability of my aircraft lies dormant, irritates me.

Isn't dji sorta just starting out? I though they just started getting known in 2012 to almost 2013, correct me if I'm wrong but if I'm not I don't think they are doing all that bad for 2 or 3 yrs of bringing us things we wouldn't have right now if it wasn't for them, 3dr and blade and devo, they are all way behind dji in the drone stuff...  Look at the blade chroma, $1300 for a 4k camera and a 600 meter range max, and being stuck with a tiny a$$ 5in screen on the controller..  No 720p downlink with any android or Apple tablet..  It even runs a 3 cell battery so it's sluggish and not as responsive..  No motor breaking, you don't have access to camera settings and drone settings like in the p3s..  Is there really this many unappreciative spoiled brats in the world?  You pay $1000 for a drone and feel all dji employees need to work around the clock to get us updates and stuff...  

Look at 3dr, $1600 for the solo with gamble, plus now you need a gopro, and u still got 600 meter range and a 3 cell battery and no vps. Granted some of us gotta leave it off right now but soon we won't and in a few months the p3 will have poi, follow me and waypoints..  I've had nothing but a good experience with dji stuff..  The vps on my p3 is jacked up at the moment but it's off and I've got no issues flying..  My flame wheel F550 with h3-3d and light bridge works excellent, my F450 with immersion rc ez-uhf, 600mw 5.8ghz vtx, iosd, and Bluetooth data link all work excellent too.. Both flamewheels are running e300 propulsion systems and Naza-m v2 flight controllers and work great..  I get 1.6km on my F550 when away from the city and 5km on my F450 all day, if I take the 2.4ghz data link off and put my 2.4ghz immersion rc vtx back ok ican go 8km with no issues and do it regularly, and every time I lost video or control fail safe has brought them home every time..  Usually only a 100 meters back and I am able to take back over..

So really people, maybe buy more than 1 toy so you don't need to cry so much when dji is working on something..  Naza has issues at first too, but within 6 months or so every issue was ironed out and had been working great..  Most of the Naza fly always were caused by cheap transmitter and receivers or improperly set fail safes....  

Anyone that needs another dependable toy, let me know. You buy the parts and I will put together a rock solid copter for you using dji's Naza and one of their propulsion systems and possibly one of their frames if you would like, the F550 with Naza and e600 propulsion system is a bad a$$. Copter, will fight strong winds and fly smooth and able to lift the biggest camera, F450 with Naza and e300 propulsion system is perfect for the h3-3d or h4-3d gambles..  

So come on people lets try and be a little understanding and more humble and less spoiled brats

Mark97564 Posted at 2015-6-24 12:27
Isn't dji sorta just starting out? I though they just started getting known in 2012 to almost 2013,  ...

Thanks for a fact-filled post. I'm a newbie to the world as seen by DJI (or their consumers), but your points were well made. Perhaps what we're seeing/hearing is simply a product of that nasty mentality of "...what have you done for me lately.?"

Millennial generation, Heres my money, Give ME what I want, Give it to ME now, and Oh, it better be PERFECT or I'm going to wine like a little girl.

Bunk.

If a business advertises a product and then accepts money for that product, the company is obliged to provide the product AS ADVERTISED.  This is a no-brainer.  Perhaps you have all the money and time in the world but for the rest f us, our money and time is limited.

I am happy to say that my P3P is working fine with the latest firmware.  But I can't do any real work with my drone because I'm stuck with a single battery.  Mind you, I ordered on May 1st.  I was charged the full amount on May 12th.  The P3P arrived on May 19th.  It's now June 24th and I still have no extra batteries.

I feel for those owners who are having problems.  DJI is missing a golden opportunity to KEEP customers happy.  The next drone released which fills my needs will replace my P3P, and you know that will happen soon.

$.02

P3PO Posted at 2015-6-24 19:45
Millennial generation, Heres my money, Give ME what I want, Give it to ME now, and Oh, it better be  ...

One small modification:
Millennial generation, Heres some money that I borrowed, Give ME what I want, Give it to ME now, and Oh, it better be PERFECT or I'm going to wine like a little girl

P3PO Posted at 2015-6-24 19:45
Millennial generation, Heres my money, Give ME what I want, Give it to ME now, and Oh, it better be  ...

Well, I'm not a Millennial, but someone that paid my money and want to receive what was advertised and sold to me. My present non-firmware updated Phantom 3 Professional fly's well. I haven't been able to use all the the features that were sold. But in time, maybe?

DJI advertised a flying 4k video camera drone with a full list of features. To date, most of the features have been vapor ware.

We weren't purchasing do-it-yourself- kits but ready to fly vehicles.

This is what was said about the original Phantom: The PHANTOM is an all-in-one small Quad Copter designed for multi-rotor enthusiasts. Before shipping from the factory, it has been configured and fully tested, which means you have no configuration to do.

Now the Phantom 2: The PHANTOM 2 features the same compact, highly integrated design, but comes with FPV flying and aerial cinematography support right out of the box. It is unbelievably easy to fly.

How about the Phantom 2: PHANTOM 2 Vision--your flying camera. It brings you an unprecedented photographic experience and gives you an experience of a new level of photography.

One more time for the PHANTOM 2 Vision + :  
The Phantom 2 Vision+ ushers in a new era of aerial cinematography with its brand new and incredibly stable 3-axis gimbal , combined with the sharp, powerful DJI-designed camera, making professional imaging tools easily accessible to everyone.

And finally the PHANTOM 3 Advanced and Professional : The Phantom 3 Professional’s flight controller features several important upgrades, including a new flight mode. Safety modes include Failsafe and Return-to-Home. These features ensure the safe return of your aircraft if the control signal is lost. The flight controller can also save critical flight data from each flight to the on-board storage device. The new flight controller also provides increased stability and a new air braking feature.

Notice how all of the descriptions which DJI used over the last 4 plus years stressed how easy to fly these units are/were?

DJI has some very innovative products. I can't take that from them. They presently lead all manufacturers of UAV's. The competitors are catching up. DJI sold the Phantom on it's features, not me or you. One would imagine that if DJI stated that your drone may or may not be suitable to fly without major firmware updates and we have little to no written documentation, how many would they have sold?

Well, I'm not a Millennial, but someone that paid my money and want to receive what was advertised and sold to me. My present non-firmware updated Phantom 3 Professional fly's well. I haven't been able to use all the the features that were sold. But in time, maybe?

DJI advertised a flying 4k video camera drone with a full list of features. To date, most of the features have been vapor ware.

We weren't purchasing do-it-yourself- kits but ready to fly vehicles.

This is what was said about the original Phantom: The PHANTOM is an all-in-one small Quad Copter designed for multi-rotor enthusiasts. Before shipping from the factory, it has been configured and fully tested, which means you have no configuration to do.

Now the Phantom 2: The Phantom 2 features the same compact, highly integrated design, but comes with FPV flying and aerial cinematography support right out of the box. It is unbelievably easy to fly.

How about the Phantom 2: Phantom 2 Vision--your flying camera. It brings you an unprecedented photographic experience and gives you an experience of a new level of photography.

One more time for the Phantom 2 Vision + :  
The Phantom 2 Vision+ ushers in a new era of aerial cinematography with its brand new and incredibly stable 3-axis gimbal , combined with the sharp, powerful DJI-designed camera, making professional imaging tools easily accessible to everyone.

And finally the Phantom 3 Advanced and Professional : The Phantom 3 Professional’s flight controller features several important upgrades, including a new flight mode. Safety modes include Failsafe and Return-to-Home. These features ensure the safe return of your aircraft if the control signal is lost. The flight controller can also save critical flight data from each flight to the on-board storage device. The new flight controller also provides increased stability and a new air braking feature.

Notice how all of the descriptions which DJI used over the last 4 plus years stressed how easy to fly these units are/were?

DJI has some very innovative products. I can't take that from them. They presently lead all manufacturers of UAV's. The competitors are catching up.

Mark97564 Posted at 2015-6-24 12:27
Isn't dji sorta just starting out? I though they just started getting known in 2012 to almost 2013,  ...

And this is why I purchased a Yuneec Q500+ instead of the P3.

Flatline74 Posted at 2015-6-25 08:45
And this is why I purchased a Yuneec Q500+ instead of the P3.

Good Luck With That LOL

P3PO Posted at 2015-6-25 09:02
Good Luck With That LOL

I have had plenty of good luck. Seems like the luck should be wished for Phantom 3 owners. Lol , good luck.

Flatline74 Posted at 2015-6-25 09:04
I have had plenty of good luck. Seems like the luck should be wished for Phantom 3 owners. Lol , g ...

Im having great luck with my P3P and also with my P2V+ and my F550.

P3PO Posted at 2015-6-25 09:16
Im having great luck with my P3P and also with my P2V+ and my F550.

The good thing about Yuneec is if I did happen to have trouble, they will take care of it quickly here the United States and back flying in no time.

spiderbot.sb Posted at 2015-6-24 19:49
Bunk.

If a business advertises a product and then accepts money for that product, the company is ob ...

Many authorized dealers got shipments of P3 batteries this week.
Hurry and you may nab one.
I picked up 2 more today from my local dealer, they may have more.
Dronesmadeeasy.com

spiderbot.sb Posted at 2015-6-24 19:49
Bunk.

If a business advertises a product and then accepts money for that product, the company is ob ...

I don't think it will happen soon.
We are seeing that making a decent drone at these prices is near impossible. The Solo is looking like a complete flop and the BeBop is not as advertised (same with all Parrot Drones).

Yuneec and Blade (same thing) are 1/2 decent but any real value comparison with DJI shows them coming up short. Still, you could do worse.

The only thing even on the horizon is the GoPro drone which you may see in quantity in about a year.  

This idea of "everything should be perfect" or "as advertised" completely amazes me. Sure, my LL Bean shoes fit that description, but expecting pioneering aerial robots to be that way is a reach.

I think the real solution is that lots of people should not fly aerial robots...at least not for a number of years until they have perfect obstacle avoidance, centimeter level accuracy, etc.

Other than that it is what it is. Nothing better is coming soon. I promise.

The sad thing, and I hope it does not happen, is sometimes a business grows so fast that it kills them.  I've seen it happen before.  I once paid 5k on some racing suspension parts that were considered the best in the Corvette racing circuit only to have a few small issues that couldn't get fixed because the business had went under simply because they couldn't keep up with demand.  Long story short their investers were telling them to start outsourcing and pump out sub-par products and they refused and had to close their doors.

My blade 350qx2 never seen the go pro gimble blade advertised in their manuals, website, still not available..  Also3 different blade 350s ax and qx2 couldn't keep a sat lock if their lives depended on it but all my dji stuff keeps excellent sat locks.. In 2014 we seen a blade 350qx, 350qx2, and a 350qx3 and all had issues and now early 2015 we got the chroma which to me is the qx4 and you think blade doesn't have issues? I had 2 fly off in me, horizon also replaced both and the 2nd replacement went on eBay..  I've had my f450 and f550 since naza v2 has been out and no guy waste, fail safe saved the day every time my spectrum radio locked out.  Thank god for naza's advanced fail safe that detects. Retarded transmitter or receiver the last time..  I made the decision to dump horizon, all my spektrum and blade stuff went on eBay, I lost allot of money but if I kept the stuff I would have lost ALL my money...   I'm sticking with dji, Funabashi and immersion rc..  I've been thru allot of products in this hobby and I've learned the hard way what isn't good but I learned..  And dji is good! The best!  

I just wish I could do what blade strike does, I love all dji's stuff and I would love to be on their team!  

A bird even attacked one of my flame wheels and I was able to restart the motors and avoid a nasty fall.. It wouldn't have worked that way with a blade, it would have needed to be power cycled..  I've got so much confidence in my dji stuff I know once I plug my battery in and take off my copter will be coming back home..  I'm not trying to brag and I'm knocking on wood right now, but I've had a product from almost every manufacturer and none are as dependable and feature loaded as dji..  I also know in a few months my p3s firmware will be perfected,nook at naza, a2, wookong they all are.. I wish naza f1 and f2 ports could be used as aux Pwm channels and I had mechanical zoom with my p3p but that it..  I'm flying with vps off right now but in a month or 2 I won't be..    It got 2 $900 Sony car DVDs player stereos in my cars and Sony couldn't make them work right and eventually took them out and went back to pioneer, which I wish I didn't have to do cuz the Sony stereos sound so good but I couldn't live with the issues anymore..  Everything takes time to perfect!  The p3 is new and of course their will be bugs and issues once millions of them hit the market.
Dji has even improved their support, it sucked bad, real bad just last year, but their new products are getting 24 hr support and since so many people cried they couldn't get helped I decided to try and contact dji just for the hell of it and I had no issues getting thru to them.. I called, emailed and used the chat in the pilot app and every way I contacted them I was talking to someone in less than 5 minutes...  So I don't get that.   

Just so I could avoid sending my h3-3d gimble to them their tech said you can install team viewer on your computer plug the gimble in and contact me on Skype so we could communicate while they had access of my pc, and guess what? My gimble works and I didn't even have to send it in! They installed the programs they needed on my computer and went into my gimble and did what they needed to do all from over seas...

I've learned if you treat someone shitty they aren't going to help you and will screw you around..  So maybe all you people having issues with your dji stuff just need to represent yourselves better instead of giving the techs attitudes and being crappy to them and maybe they will go out of their way for you,, people don't do anything for someone who thinks they owe them or expects something.. I'm nice I praise and dji has always made me happy..  

I'm a hvac/r tech and fix furnaces and air conditioners and the coolers in grocery stores and stuff and when I get a customer being shitty to me I charge them double what I would charge anyone else nice to me and I won't go out of my way for a a$$hole not 1 little bit..  

So just maybe all you having dji issues is cuz you walk around thinking the world owes you everything cuz you paid and I'm sorry to say $hit just don't work that way..  Have you ever wondered why some people just don't have issues but you have issues with everything in life? It's prolly you needing to change if that's the case!

And your not suppose to use a hobby grade machine to try and make money with, it's illegal!  2nd if your getting paid to do professional work why would you use a p3 for that?  That is what a S900 with a A2 controller is for along with lightbridge and a zenmuse Z15-GH4 gimble and matching camera are made for...  I feel bad for your customers if indeed you even have any

Mark97564 Posted at 2015-6-25 12:25
A bird even attacked one of my flame wheels and I was able to restart the motors and avoid a nasty f ...

AMEN Brother, AMEN. Well said.

droneflyers.com Posted at 2015-6-25 10:45
I don't think it will happen soon.
We are seeing that making a decent drone at these prices is nea ...

Again, bunk.

If these are 'pioneering aerial robots' then they should be advertised as such, not as a 'complete turnkey system for aerial photography and video'.

If they cost more to produce, charge more.  Don't promise and then not deliver.

And if they are selling a package, they should deliver all the parts that were advertised in that package.

There is no excuse.  It's simply bad business.

(Nothing personal, droneflyers, I think we simply disagree on this issue.)

spiderbot.sb Posted at 2015-6-25 20:12
Again, bunk.

If these are 'pioneering aerial robots' then they should be advertised as such, not  ...

Doesn't matter what you think about how soon they will be up to your standards - the tale is in the tape.

GoPro has been working for 1 1/2 years - this is a multi-billion dollar company - and is not bringing their model to market until 2016.

The development of a drone such as you and other desire would take about 2-3 years from scratch and hundreds of millions of dollars in R&D and other costs just to get started. After that it would require billions in continual cash flow just to keep inventory, customer service, etc.

I'm just the messenger here - but unless Elon Musk or Apple or Google decide to enter the market in a big way, your dream drone is most likely to come from a company called DJI.

I base this opinion on 40 years involvement with technology, business and manufacturing. Nothing is going to show up out of the blue and disrupt the market.

If you've been following it, the 3DR Solo just started shipping a couple weeks ago. The defect rate if off the charts and they just today made it clear that the gimbals (to take video and pics) won't be on the shelf for a few months more. After that, you still have to wonder if the combo will even work.

I await your basic idea of where this new consumer drone is going to come from because I don't see it in the real world. Maybe in a video game of occulus riff, but not an actual vehicle.

droneflyers.com Posted at 2015-6-26 09:36
Doesn't matter what you think about how soon they will be up to your standards - the tale is in th ...

First, I'm not really focusing on the technology but being a hardware and software engineer I can say that billions for R&D is bunk.  Just wrong.  Maybe the govt but not a private firm.  My guess is that most of the income generated by DJI goes to keeping the CEO in a luxury apartment.

'Soon' is relative. I didn't say it would happen over night but it will happen sooner if this 'market' really is as hot as the hype.

What I was actually focusing on is the very bad business model of advertising and taking money for complete, finished products that work AS ADVERTISED, and then not delivering them.  Why on earth would anyone defend this practice?

Peace, out.

In terms of billions I am talking not only R&D but building up inventory and production capability and all the infrastructure to sell millions per year. If a company cannot follow through on the R&D, then it means nothing.

DJI is probably at 5,000 employees and counting. AND, they subcontract all of the "hard goods" end of the business. So, yeah, that gets into the billions in cash flow quite soon (they will do more than a billion in the next year and have a market value of over 10 billion).

Again, I'm not defending it - just stating the current situation. You are asking for a colony on Mars while I am impressed we've made it to the moon. If we make it Mars in a couple years it will turn out you are right.

Current projections, even by DJI, call for the  market to somewhat peak and be owned by the low-cost providers. All the stuff some people want costs a LOT of money. If we all want to get someone on the phone who "knows something" at any time, that's a lot of $$. I did some back of envelope calcs on better customer service and I think it's $200 or more per unit. That doesn't include higher quality on the units.

So, yeah, if we want to pay $2K  - and if, and only if, DJI or another company saw this as a good business model...then we could get what you expect (maybe).

Time will tell. I'm just an observer like you.

droneflyers.com Posted at 2015-6-26 20:38
In terms of billions I am talking not only R&D but building up inventory and production capability a ...

If you actually read the Forbes article, DJI sold 400,000 units most of which were Phantom's.

You do know the difference between market valuation and actual worth? Companies that are worth $8 billion dollars don't borrow $75 million dollars to expand operations.

DJI has had some very innovative products since the introduction of the Phantom in 2013.

What's gone wrong with the Phantom 3 was attempting to incorporate the Lightbridge into the unit as  a complete unit with a new camera.

Not all professional photographer/videographers use top of the line equipment. Frequently you'll have back up equipment that isn't used daily that's seen lots of action, but still has functionality.

I leased a view camera ($12,000) for a year before converting the lease to a sale. I don't know of any companies offering leases on Phantom's or for that matter any other professional grade drone.
The Service Drone Skycrane minus camera goes for $52,000. I can't justify spending that kind of money no matter how much work I can get for it. My insurance company would flip out if I were to  rent one of these and crash it.

That's why you drive what you've got, or in this case, fly what you have.

Gregg, they are on track to sell a million units in the year after release of the P3. That's common knowledge. Last year they did 500 million (prob the 400K units you are mentioning) . I'm looking forward, not backwards since that's the only way to talk about what it takes to address the current or future market.

Even as it stands, DJI cannot keep up.  75 million is just a bit of cash flow - as you know, they are prepaid for a LOT of their inventory as much as a month or more in advance. I'd guess dealers and distributors either pay in advance or have letters of credit. DJI Suppliers probably give them good terms - so, like Apple, most machines are paid for by the customer before DJI owes the suppliers.

Any new entry into the market will not have all of these advantages (GoPro aside...they have some - a supply chain, etc.).

Sure I know about market cap.
My point is only that going forward it's a BIG bet. Very few companies in the world are likely to take the risk. GoPro is doing it, but we aren't going to see drone makers come out of nowhere (IMHO).

When we look at what's wrong with a P3 or any other flying robot, there is really only one metric - compared to WHAT?

I guess that's my final point. Folks seem to be comparing these toys to some unknown perfect consumer product that is not likely to exist for 5-10 years. As I like to say, the Wright Brothers didn't deliver an Airbus, but they definitely got the basics right. Things happen quicker these days, but you still can't hatch a perfect quad in one or two years (If Solo is any indication). DJI can only do this because they solved many technical problems over the last 6 years or so....they can build upon experience.

Time will tell - but I suspect the big drone model in 2016 will be the Phantom 3 for the 1st 1/2 and then the Phantom 3+ or 4 for the second.
:-)

Droneflyer,

  If this forum is any indication of future sales for DJI, I suspect that there won't be many repeat direct sales customers. That's not to say there won't be repeat customers, but not direct sales customers.

  The hobby shops that sell don't front money against product. They purchase wholesale and typically have 10-30 days after delivery to pay unlike getting banged on order. The more volume, the better the terms. Getting a letter of credit isn't difficult for credit approval.

Yes, developing a new multi-rotor is a challenge. To me the simplest approach is to design what you know best (design and controls) and risk share to others that have the expertise (cameras and communications systems) .   

There are a lot of aerospace autonomous design engineers out there looking for work. They'd love nothing more that to get in on the ground floor of neat projects that they can be paid a salary as well as sharing in the profits once the market develops. Getting a Go Fund Me type of operation off the ground isn't as difficult as it once was. Rapid prototyping has changed what once was a 18-24 month cycle into a 6-9 month element. Like I said, you do what you do best and either purchase off the shelf hardware or risk share with potential suppliers.

The great thing about the consumer hobby market is that there is volume unlike commercial or military units. DJI presently is the big player in the market. Whether they can stay there remains to be seen.

You lead, follow or get out of the way. Big companies have to  be in the top 5 or they don't survive. Boutique manufacturers that offer specialized units will always have a draw.

Mark97564 Posted at 2015-6-25 12:25
A bird even attacked one of my flame wheels and I was able to restart the motors and avoid a nasty f ...

Mark97564
QUOTE"I'm a hvac/r tech and fix furnaces and air conditioners and the coolers in grocery stores and stuff and when I get a customer being shitty to me I charge them double what I would charge anyone else nice to me and I won't go out of my way for a a$$hole not 1 little bit.." UNQUOTE!

I worked in heavy industry for 36 years doing industrial maintenance, HVAC, hydraulics, electrical, mechanical, troubleshooting and repair and supervision. I am capable of doing all of my on troubleshooting on my HVAC equipment at home but prefer not to do the work anymore as I can afford to have it done for me in retirement years. If I call someone out to work on my furnace or AC, I already know what the problem is and most often will have the replacement part in hand to fix it. I verify what the hourly rates are when I make the call for repairs and if someone like you came to my house and pulled S*** like you, I would send them packing. You just struck a nerve with that statement. No hard feelings though.
Keep treating your customers like that and you won't be in business very long. I feel sorry for the little old ladies, and not so mechanically inclined men you rip off.

droneflyers.com Posted at 2015-6-26 20:38
In terms of billions I am talking not only R&D but building up inventory and production capability a ...

Bunk.

Why do you keep talking about R&D and billions?  None of that is relevant.

False advertising and taking money while not delivering is bad business for any business.  What part of this don't you understand?