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Is the new HDR fake?
1353 28 1-6 07:21
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chririva
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Leaving aside that it is ridiculous that this HDR is only available in 2.7k 30fps and it has a nonsense zoom...

I analyzed the metadata of the video stored, it has only 8-bit depth color instead of the expected 10-bit (as my mavic 2 pro, when I shoot in hdr).
Also, I put the video on the hdr television, and it's not recognized as hdr at all. All the hdr videos I am playing on my television are popping up an icon saying the video is hdr.

From Wiki:
''HDR encoding standards allow for a higher maximum luminance and use at least a 10-bit dynamic range in order to maintain precision across this extended range.''


Is the new HDR functionality fake?

Comment :DE=D-CLike, Type=HDR, HQ=High, Mode=P

  • Firmware: V01.02.00.50

Video
ID :1
Format :AVC
Format/Info :Advanced Video Codec
Format profile :High@L5
Format settings :CABAC / 1 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC :Yes
Format settings, Reference frames :1 frame
Format settings, GOP :M=1, N=30
Codec ID :avc1
Codec ID/Info :Advanced Video Coding
Duration :9 s 977 ms
Bit rate mode :Variable
Bit rate :35.8 Mb/s
Maximum bit rate :60.0 Mb/s
Width :2 720 pixels
Height :1 530 pixels
Display aspect ratio :16:9
Frame rate mode :Constant
Frame rate :29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Color space :YUV
Chroma subsampling :4:2:0
Bit depth :8 bits
Scan type :Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) :0.287
Stream size :42.6 MiB (99%)
Title :DJI.AVC
Language :English
Encoded date :UTC 2021-01-06 15:15:43
Tagged date :UTC 2021-01-06 15:15:43
Color range :Limited
Color primaries :BT.709
Transfer characteristics :BT.709
Matrix coefficients :BT.709
Codec configuration box :avcC



1-6 07:21
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chririva
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There is also something wrong with this "hdr", sometimes and in some scenarios the image is completely dark.It probably depends on the max iso we have set in the settings.

SDR Dlog 4k 30fps.jpg hdr 2.7k 30fps.jpg
1-6 07:38
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Blellow
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is the Mavic pro 2 recognized by your tv as HDR?  My MA2 is not recognized by my HDR tv but it looks good.
1-6 08:16
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Blellow
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The HDR looks right from my testing.  Shoot a bright light in SDR and see that the highlights are lost.  Use HDR for the same shot and there are details in the highlights that were not there before.  Good Luck.
1-6 08:22
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chririva
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Here are 2 other footage tests:




Full resolution may not already be available since i just post it. But you can already see that HDR is completely dark.
In both of videos I put Max Iso 3200, EV -0.3, White Balance 5400k
1-6 08:29
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Blellow
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I had better success trying it outside with the bright sun and a sward of shade.
1-6 14:11
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CemAygun
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The HDR naming has always been a source of confusion, so here is a very simplified breakdown:

Standard dynamic range photo/video formats use 8 bits per color channel, creating a total of 256 shades between full black and full white (same applies to all colors, bringing the total to 16.7 million). Consumer grade camera sensors generally record at a dynamic range close to 2/3rds of that in a single exposure. So just to be able to make the full use of a regular, 8 bit video (or photo), you need to take multiple exposures of the same scene and join the best parts from each in post processing.

This used to be called "exposure bracketing", as each scene was recorded multiple times with normal, under and over exposed settings.  But later the term "HDR" became preferred for multi exposure videos (or photos) as they provided a higher dynamic range than sensor's standard; albeit still being presented in 8 bit formats.

This was all good before displays that can show more than 8 bits became a consumer thing. When those came around, they were rightfully called HDR as they could display a higher dynamic range (10 bits instead of 8, thus 1024 shades between black and white instead of 256, and 1.07 billion colors in total). The videos recorded for those displays, with 10 bits per channel are also called HDR videos.

So now "HDR video" means two different things: One is a video that is composed from multiple exposures which gives an extended dynamic range over the sensor's standard, and the other one is a video that is recorded at 10 bits per channel instead of 8 (regardless of how much of that depth is utilized).

Pocket 2 is supposed to do the first one, using a special version of pixel binning. Basically when recording video every pixel in a 2x2 grid (out of the 64MP) is supposed to be exposed slightly different, some under and some over, and then processed in real time, in camera, to create higher dynamic range video.

The bottom line: The output not being 10 bits does not mean it is not HDR, as long as it provides a higher dynamic range than standart, single exposure video. And as I said, just filling up 8 bits is quite a challenge.

Hope this helps...

1-6 14:58
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DJI-ytao
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Hi chririva.
The wiki definition you post is about HLG HEVC 10bit file. we didn't choose this file format because its versatility: most phones, website pages, PC media player do not support that so fat. Consider pocket2 target audience, we choose the regular 8bit video file.

you may refer to what CemAygun describes.
1-6 18:48
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fansfe82067d
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CemAygun Posted at 1-6 14:58
The HDR naming has always been a source of confusion, so here is a very simplified breakdown:

Standard dynamic range photo/video formats use 8 bits per color channel, creating a total of 256 shades between full black and full white (same applies to all colors, bringing the total to 16.7 million). Consumer grade camera sensors generally record at a dynamic range close to 2/3rds of that in a single exposure. So just to be able to make the full use of a regular, 8 bit video (or photo), you need to take multiple exposures of the same scene and join the best parts from each in post processing.

Excellent summary.  I suspect DJI have done the best with the hardware they've got - why would they not?  Now whether they shouldn't have tried, or whether they should have used diffent hardware - or whether they should have gone for a larger form factor to make things easier - is another matter, and we're probably in no position to judge.  But to expect 10 bit video at this price point and form factor might have been a bit optimistic.  
1-6 23:19
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chririva
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Even if it uses imaging techniques to increase the dinamic range, why would it be called hdr if it doesn't have hdr color space?
Still, I just see underexposed video with completely no dinamic range. Even with the brightness and color correction on Premiere Pro I cannot restore the detail at all. Tell me I'm doing wrong.
Please, check the videos I uploaded. I am surprised that this firmware passed your quality standards.
1-7 11:39
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Blellow
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I get the right to judge because I paid money for it.
I get the right to judge because it is an inevitable human right.

Whether the judgment is correct is debatable.

I judge that electronic companies inevitably get worse at some point in time. This is DJI's worse, the Pocket 2. The HDR is unacceptable.
1-7 13:12
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hallmark007
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Blellow Posted at 1-7 13:12
I get the right to judge because I paid money for it.
I get the right to judge because it is an inevitable human right.

You have the right to your opinion, but to judge something some proof of your expertise is necessary otherwise your just another fool who think’s he’s a legend in his own Lunchtime....
1-7 14:49
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CemAygun
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As I said, it is really sad they could not get it right (at least not so far). HDR video is one of the main selling points of quad Bayer filter sensors, and the samples from Mavic Air 2 are impressive. Hopefully they will fix it soon...  
1-7 14:55
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chririva
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DJI-ytao Posted at 1-6 18:48
Hi chririva.
The wiki definition you post is about HLG HEVC 10bit file. we didn't choose this file format because its versatility: most phones, website pages, PC media player do not support that so fat. Consider pocket2 target audience, we choose the regular 8bit video file.

Actually people that can't use hdr for incompatibilities can still not use it.
I click HDR in the settings and i found a normal video. It's written in the metadata.

Still the video has no wide range at all and is underexposed. still no solution to it
1-8 04:49
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Karl53
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HDR is definitely useless !!!

1-8 05:12
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chririva
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I will wait another firmware before sending this camera back to amazon and apply for the refund.. But I think there won't be miracles. It's just worse than the first version and not worth it
1-9 03:08
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fansfe82067d
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I saw a video on YouTube today (which one?  Can't remember) where the difference between normal and HDR was quite significant - it was a sunset scene I think, and without HDR you couldn't see much in the foreground, but with HDR the sky was exposed as before but the low-light area in the foreground was more exposed.  I guess it works best in scenes of that sort.
1-9 05:17
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Karl53
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It has to work in all scenes and not just a few specific scenes
1-9 05:28
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hallmark007
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chririva Posted at 1-9 03:08
I will wait another firmware before sending this camera back to amazon and apply for the refund.. But I think there won't be miracles. It's just worse than the first version and not worth it

You obviously purchased this camera believing it had great HDR, so maybe best to return it. The I believe you may need to spend much more money to achieve what you’re looking for...
1-9 06:40
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Ray-CubeAce
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Does anyone know what the file sizes would be per minute for a true 10 bit 4K file or what transfer speed would be needed from an SD card? Amount of heat needed to be dissipated by the Pocket 2?
I would also love to know how many people here are editing on a 4K 10 bit monitor or the specs of their PC / laptop to edit such footage which is lot harder on the computer specs than just playing it back.

1-9 07:50
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chririva
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hallmark007 Posted at 1-9 06:40
You obviously purchased this camera believing it had great HDR, so maybe best to return it. The I believe you may need to spend much more money to achieve what you’re looking for...

I don't agree that I have to spend more. They advertised features that are not working. I don't have to spend more, they just have to keep promises.
ActiveTrack 3.0: not working.  it cannot track anything even in good light conditions.
HDR is fake and it has a superzoom. It's also underexposed in my case.
High quality mode has lower quality.
64mpx photos has lower quality than 16, it introduces too much noise.
And other things are useless.. why cant't I do 4k timelapse? We have a gimbal, we have a 4k camera, and we have got 1080p timelapse. Even a few years old phone can do better.
1-9 08:33
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hallmark007
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chririva Posted at 1-9 08:33
I don't agree that I have to spend more. They advertised features that are not working. I don't have to spend more, they just have to keep promises.
ActiveTrack 3.0: not working.  it cannot track anything even in good light conditions.
HDR is fake and it has a superzoom. It's also underexposed in my case.

Like I said , if you’re looking for perfection then pay for it, if you feel quality is so bad , be done with it and move on, active track works fine for me, HDR is what it is, not quite where Air2 is but I expect like pocket 1 it will improve over time, camera has a tiny sensor if you shoot in low light then noise will be prevalent . Pocket 1 was and still is seen as a great small camera packed with great features and great potential to make excellent videos. Pocket2 has very much improved on 1 with many new features and much improved older features.

Maybe take your own advice and buy a few years old phone, because it seems you believe these phones to be  better cameras than pocket 2. People like you will never be happy because you believe you should be able to make a silk purse out of a sows ear.
Quit the whining return your P2 and all you problems will be gone..
1-9 09:48
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net23
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709 is NOT HDR color space. 2020 is. That file is not HDR.
1-9 10:29
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Mr Monio
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Ray-CubeAce Posted at 1-9 07:50
Does anyone know what the file sizes would be per minute for a true 10 bit 4K file or what transfer speed would be needed from an SD card? Amount of heat needed to be dissipated by the Pocket 2?
I would also love to know how many people here are editing on a 4K 10 bit monitor or the specs of their PC / laptop to edit such footage which is lot harder on the computer specs than just playing it back.

Apple has just made their M1 SoC the new standard and it's well capable of editing 4K 10-bit input, not to mention all the other hardware on the market. And there is always the option to record below 4K for anyone who does not yet have a powerful enough editing rig.
1-9 15:32
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Mr Monio
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net23 Posted at 1-9 10:29
709 is NOT HDR color space. 2020 is. That file is not HDR.

It's not HDR colour space, it's SDR space video that was captured/processed using an HDR technique.
1-9 15:39
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MKosmo
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As a poster mentioned I think it depends on the scene, it would be really useful for Dji to give more detail on what situations HDR mode works better in.  ?

From my limited testing around the house , the HDR mode looks worse than regular video in each scenario - but maybe this is not its intended use case ?

1-10 05:52
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Gulfstream
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I don't think it's fake. I did find this video a few days ago.  Go to 3:04 on the timeline.

1-10 08:34
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chririva
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Tested all sunday long. Problem persist in any scene, in most of the scenes the video is underexposed

1-12 08:44
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fansfe82067d
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I've been testing the new Fimi Palm 2 recently, and while I wouldn't rate it above the Pocket 2 in general, its HDR mode works in 4K30 and it makes dark areas light wthout blowing highlights - somehow.  (Its face tracking is very good too).  I guess the Pocket 2 has some limitation preventing it from doing HDR that well - or maybe they are using a theoritically good method that in practice requires more resources than the Pocket 2 can provide.  A pity.
1-13 05:26
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