First I will start by thanking the gentlemen who worked on preparing this information nand for the others who have followed this dreadful flight and the resulting problems.  It's impossible to argue against the forensic evidence in evidence here. It certainly appears that I was carelessly attempting a flight which had no chance of a successful conclusion.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the facts that lay in front of me.
But , just for the sake of trying to understand what could cause a well experienced person who above the age of 70 received his Marine Capt. license, became a  certified RC and FAA UAV pilot - to make such a flight if all of these fact were present for the pilot before and during this flight. Here are some of my problems with the conclusions reached here. I'll start with info I learned after the fact in attempts to pull up files it should take an person with just average intelligence less than 2 minutes to ifind as was pointed out earlier. I had the benefit of having a friends Smart Controller (SC)  near the end of this process. I followed the identical steps of locating and accessing the Flight Records on his and my SC. The file Flight Records showed up from his SC but on my PC 4 times in a row as they should have - yet when I attempted to access the same flight Records from my SC on my PC using the identical process it took 4 attempts before they appeared, meaning I had 3 failed attempts using my SC as the source file holder yet his worked perfectly every time.  My point here is -- something is definitely wrong with my SC since it is the only variable.   "Pilot error"   Not likely o  Equipment failure  Most likely.  Could it also be causing other errors to occur??    Possibly but unknown at this time until more testing is done. Could it be the cause of the pilot not seeing warning messages during flight that would have warned him of system failures i.e. low battery, RTH, weak signal, lost signal etc.  I will give you 1 point that my batteries {3} were 100% charged the night before the flight and placed in my vehicle along with my SC and UAV etc the morning of my flight. According to my DJI charger they were fully charged. Can I say specifically I checked them at flight time, maybe I saw the green light and didn't pay attention to checking that all 4 lights lit up. I usually do as part of my pre flight prep but I can't swear to it for this flight but I'm not ready to say I didn't look at them. I always look!!.
I will swear to the following:  I look at my screen 100% of the time if I do not have an unobstructed view of my drone, in this case trees.  I responded to the first low battery warning that I saw, that was immediately followed by a weak signal, followed by a lost or no signal warning, followed by a blank screen as I prested the RTH button. At that point I became very concerned and set my SC on the hood of my car and walked into the woods towards the UAV to listen for or observe its return. I was gone probably 5 - 8 minutes during which time I was - according to your forensic data interrupting the RTH and redirecting it to return back to whence it came.  Gentlemen you give me too much credit. I wouldn't have a clue as to how to redirect a RTH flight much less sent it back to almost where it  started  its  RTH from. ANother point might be - why after seeing the low battery warning, being concerned enough to initiate the RTH would anybody in their right mind cancel such a flight. That's absurd, I don't care what your data shows.   After I returned to my car I waited another 20 -30 minutes in hopes it might show up before returning home.

I'm not trying to be argumentative or saying your data is wrong. I'm simply saying there more things in play here. Yes, maybe your data shows all of these things seem to have happened from the system point of view but they are clearly mistaken if they are telling you that I acted in such a manner just because the systems reports it so.  Somewhere there is a disconnect somewhere - if for no other reason it took the system 4 attempts to bring up the flight record file from my SC when it was there ??? all the time. Is it possible that all of these system related errors be connected in some way. In my mind absolutely!!  In yours probably not, why because you only have the data the system gives you.  You have no idea what was going on at the time when you attach a human element and the data he/she sees in real time.  The forensic evidence doesn't always win the case when there is reasonable doubt there is other evidence that needs to be considered.  Can I prove I didn't "see the other warnings and that my screen went blank no only my word, but I can prove that it took 4 attempts to see the Flight record if you tested it and could verify it what was witnessed by an impartial observer.  On the other hand you can only prove what the system data tells you not what the pilot saw or didn't see at the time.

There was a day when customers meant something to a company like DJI.  Today its different, or so it seems. From a customers view You're job is to find a way to prove the customer made a mistake and save the company's bottom line regardless of what it takes. In this case to view the data a system generated without any consideration given as to what the customer actually saw.  Until you can explain how and why the flight records file only showed up 1 out of 4 attempts and in so doing that it would have no connection to my flights performance, I will question your findings. Am I disappointed, upset and P---- you betchya. I regret switching back to DJI from Yuneec. I thought your product was the best in its class. the product is good most of the time, it's the companies position of how it treats its customers that worries me.   Thanks for your help. I've learned a lot, and I hope other pilots will have learned from this experience as well, unfortunately.  Now I have a system I cant trust and won't fly.

richardlbye1atmc.net Posted at 1-22 18:48
First I will start by thanking the gentlemen who worked on preparing this information nand for the others who have followed this dreadful flight and the resulting problems.  It's impossible to argue against the forensic evidence in evidence here. It certainly appears that I was carelessly attempting a flight which had no chance of a successful conclusion.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the facts that lay in front of me.
But , just for the sake of trying to understand what could cause a well experienced person who above the age of 70 received his Marine Capt. license, became a  certified RC and FAA UAV pilot - to make such a flight if all of these fact were present for the pilot before and during this flight. Here are some of my problems with the conclusions reached here. I'll start with info I learned after the fact in attempts to pull up files it should take an person with just average intelligence less than 2 minutes to ifind as was pointed out earlier. I had the benefit of having a friends Smart Controller (SC)  near the end of this process. I followed the identical steps of locating and accessing the Flight Records on his and my SC. The file Flight Records showed up from his SC but on my PC 4 times in a row as they should have - yet when I attempted to access the same flight Records from my SC on my PC using the identical process it took 4 attempts before they appeared, meaning I had 3 failed attempts using my SC as the source file holder yet his worked perfectly every time.  My point here is -- something is definitely wrong with my SC since it is the only variable.   "Pilot error"   Not likely o  Equipment failure  Most likely.  Could it also be causing other errors to occur??    Possibly but unknown at this time until more testing is done. Could it be the cause of the pilot not seeing warning messages during flight that would have warned him of system failures i.e. low battery, RTH, weak signal, lost signal etc.  I will give you 1 point that my batteries {3} were 100% charged the night before the flight and placed in my vehicle along with my SC and UAV etc the morning of my flight. According to my DJI charger they were fully charged. Can I say specifically I checked them at flight time, maybe I saw the green light and didn't pay attention to checking that all 4 lights lit up. I usually do as part of my pre flight prep but I can't swear to it for this flight but I'm not ready to say I didn't look at them. I always look!!.
I will swear to the following:  I look at my screen 100% of the time if I do not have an unobstructed view of my drone, in this case trees.  I responded to the first low battery warning that I saw, that was immediately followed by a weak signal, followed by a lost or no signal warning, followed by a blank screen as I prested the RTH button. At that point I became very concerned and set my SC on the hood of my car and walked into the woods towards the UAV to listen for or observe its return. I was gone probably 5 - 8 minutes during which time I was - according to your forensic data interrupting the RTH and redirecting it to return back to whence it came.  Gentlemen you give me too much credit. I wouldn't have a clue as to how to redirect a RTH flight much less sent it back to almost where it  started  its  RTH from. ANother point might be - why after seeing the low battery warning, being concerned enough to initiate the RTH would anybody in their right mind cancel such a flight. That's absurd, I don't care what your data shows.   After I returned to my car I waited another 20 -30 minutes in hopes it might show up before returning home.

something is definitely wrong with my SC since it is the only variable.   "Pilot error"   Not likely o  Equipment failure  Most likely.  Could it also be causing other errors to occur??
There is no sign of any problem with your controller.
The joystick inputs recorded correspond exactly with what the drone did.
Your difficulty finding a file can't be linked with problems in the flight.

Could it be the cause of the pilot not seeing warning messages during flight that would have warned him of system failures i.e. low battery, RTH, weak signal, lost signal etc.
I will swear to the following:  I look at my screen 100% of the time if I do not have an unobstructed view of my drone, in this case trees.
When you drive in the desert, you don't drive until the fuel runs out.
You monitor the fuel gauge and fill up when necessary.
Your app gave you a clear readout of the battery life but you don't seem to have been monitoring it.
It also clearly shows the distance away and you can tell from that whether the drone is coming home or going further away.
You don't seem to have been monitoring that either.
When the drone is in RTH, that shows clearly on the screen ... something else not monitored.  

I will give you 1 point that my batteries {3} were 100% charged the night before the flight and placed in my vehicle along with my SC and UAV etc the morning of my flight.
Somehow your battery was at only 46% at the start of the flight.
Batteries do not self-discharge overnight and your battery did not act like one that had self-discharged.
I assumed that you'd already flown the battery earlier the same day.

I responded to the first low battery warning that I saw, that was immediately followed by a weak signal, followed by a lost or no signal warning, followed by a blank screen as I pressed the RTH button.
Obviously it was too late by then, monitoring the battery gauge would have prevented this from happening.

I set my SC on the hood of my car and walked into the woods towards the UAV to listen for or observe its return. I was gone probably 5 - 8 minutes during which time I was - according to your forensic data interrupting the RTH and redirecting it to return back to whence it came.
The warning you mentioned came at the end of the recorded flight data.
Here's the timeline showing what you did for almost 3 minutes before you put the controller down and went for a walk.

4:52.7 - RTH commenced, drone flying towards on a course of 18°
5:12.8 - Someone cancelled RTH
5:14.4 - Someone used the rudder control for 3 seconds to turn the drone to face 207°
5:50.1 - Someone used the throttle for 6 seconds to climb from 434 ft to 489 ft
5:57.0 - Someone pushed the right stick forward for 25 seconds to fly further away from the homepoint
6:33.8 - Someone pushed the throttle full forward for 16 sec, taking the drone up to 697 ft.
6:58.6 - Autolanding commenced
7:54.7 - Final warning received
7:56.4 - Signal lost

Someone was flying the drone, but not paying attention to where the drone was or what it was doing.
You can check thosee joystick inputs on the Phantomhelp log viewer report.
They were precise human generated input, not some mystery error caused by gremlins.

why after seeing the low battery warning, being concerned enough to initiate the RTH would anybody in their right mind cancel such a flight. That's absurd, I don't care what your data shows.
That you don't care is consistent with your confusion and refusal to take responsibility for the incident.
The data clearly shows exactly what happened but it doesn't explain why.
The most logical explanation would be poor/no situational awareness.

I'm not trying to be argumentative or saying your data is wrong. I'm simply saying there more things in play here.
Yes, maybe your data shows all of these things seem to have happened from the system point of view but they are clearly mistaken if they are telling you that I acted in such a manner just because the systems reports it so.  
And after analysing flight data for >1000 flights and incidents, I would suggest that there's nothing more in play.
The data shows your control inputs and it shows data from the drone's sensors and they all fit together perfectly.
The data isn't showing what seem to have happened.
It's showing exactly what did happen.

Somewhere there is a disconnect somewhere
Definitely, but it's not in your drone or controller.
if for no other reason it took the system 4 attempts to bring up the flight record file from my SC when it was there ???
Since the data was there the whole time, I can only think of one possible explanation and it's not the hardware.
A difficulty finding computer files, is a whole other ballgame and cannot be linked to your suggestion (without any evidence) of spurious control inputs.

Is it possible that all of these system related errors be connected in some way.
No .. not at all.

In yours probably not, why because you only have the data the system gives you.  You have no idea what was going on at the time when you attach a human element and the data he/she sees in real time.  
Would you tell that to an air crash investigator?
He knows his job, knows how to fly a plane and knows how to match data with physical evidence.
Don't try it with me either.

The forensic evidence doesn't always win the case when there is reasonable doubt there is other evidence that needs to be considered.
There is no reasonable doubt in this case and no other evidence that needs to be considered.

Can I prove I didn't "see the other warnings and that my screen went blank no only my word
Never mind the warnings.
The data proves that you never noticed the battery level steadily counting down from 46%, etc, etc.

but I can prove that it took 4 attempts to see the Flight record
And that's 100% irrelevant to the drone flight and the recorded flight data.

There was a day when customers meant something to a company like DJI.  Today its different, or so it seems. From a customers view You're job is to find a way to prove the customer made a mistake and save the company's bottom line regardless of what it takes.
That's fascinating but I'm not DJI.
I'm a private flyer like you (except I bring my drone home each flight).
I like the challenge of solving mystery flight incidents and help flyers find lost drones or understand what caused their incidents.
What I've done is look at your flight data, identify the issues and attempt to explain them to you.

In this case to view the data a system generated without any consideration given as to what the customer actually saw.
I'll always consider actual data a much better witness than what a flyer thinks might have happened.

Now I have a system I cant trust and won't fly.
Looking at the data, it's not the system that can't be trusted.

Richard first off all, sorry for what happened to your drone. I've been following this thread from the start, mainly out of curiosity of what happened and because there are always lessons to be learned in these situations.

You need to understand, that this is not a courtroom and you are not on trial here. You don't need to defend yourself or try to prove something different than what happened. You reached for help from the community and you got the best possible analysis for the data you provided, by 2 of the best guys in this field. Trying to argue with them about the data analysis, won't solve your problem.

You have the analysis, so it's up to you to comprehent what actually happened and present your case to DJI, if you feel that is even a case to be presented.

richardlbye1atmc.net Posted at 1-22 18:48
First I will start by thanking the gentlemen who worked on preparing this information nand for the others who have followed this dreadful flight and the resulting problems.  It's impossible to argue against the forensic evidence in evidence here. It certainly appears that I was carelessly attempting a flight which had no chance of a successful conclusion.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the facts that lay in front of me.
But , just for the sake of trying to understand what could cause a well experienced person who above the age of 70 received his Marine Capt. license, became a  certified RC and FAA UAV pilot - to make such a flight if all of these fact were present for the pilot before and during this flight. Here are some of my problems with the conclusions reached here. I'll start with info I learned after the fact in attempts to pull up files it should take an person with just average intelligence less than 2 minutes to ifind as was pointed out earlier. I had the benefit of having a friends Smart Controller (SC)  near the end of this process. I followed the identical steps of locating and accessing the Flight Records on his and my SC. The file Flight Records showed up from his SC but on my PC 4 times in a row as they should have - yet when I attempted to access the same flight Records from my SC on my PC using the identical process it took 4 attempts before they appeared, meaning I had 3 failed attempts using my SC as the source file holder yet his worked perfectly every time.  My point here is -- something is definitely wrong with my SC since it is the only variable.   "Pilot error"   Not likely o  Equipment failure  Most likely.  Could it also be causing other errors to occur??    Possibly but unknown at this time until more testing is done. Could it be the cause of the pilot not seeing warning messages during flight that would have warned him of system failures i.e. low battery, RTH, weak signal, lost signal etc.  I will give you 1 point that my batteries {3} were 100% charged the night before the flight and placed in my vehicle along with my SC and UAV etc the morning of my flight. According to my DJI charger they were fully charged. Can I say specifically I checked them at flight time, maybe I saw the green light and didn't pay attention to checking that all 4 lights lit up. I usually do as part of my pre flight prep but I can't swear to it for this flight but I'm not ready to say I didn't look at them. I always look!!.
I will swear to the following:  I look at my screen 100% of the time if I do not have an unobstructed view of my drone, in this case trees.  I responded to the first low battery warning that I saw, that was immediately followed by a weak signal, followed by a lost or no signal warning, followed by a blank screen as I prested the RTH button. At that point I became very concerned and set my SC on the hood of my car and walked into the woods towards the UAV to listen for or observe its return. I was gone probably 5 - 8 minutes during which time I was - according to your forensic data interrupting the RTH and redirecting it to return back to whence it came.  Gentlemen you give me too much credit. I wouldn't have a clue as to how to redirect a RTH flight much less sent it back to almost where it  started  its  RTH from. ANother point might be - why after seeing the low battery warning, being concerned enough to initiate the RTH would anybody in their right mind cancel such a flight. That's absurd, I don't care what your data shows.   After I returned to my car I waited another 20 -30 minutes in hopes it might show up before returning home.

Hi Richard,

I was in doubt if i would react on your long reply.

Something is wrong in your perception what have happend to this flight. But perhaps my explanation will help a little.

"I will swear to the following:  I look at my screen 100% of the time if I do not have an unobstructed view of my drone, in this case trees.  I responded to the first low battery warning that I saw, that was immediately followed by a weak signal, followed by a lost or no signal warning, followed by a blank screen as I prested the RTH button. At that point I became very concerned and set my SC on the hood of my car and walked into the woods towards the UAV to listen for or observe its return. I was gone probably 5 - 8 minutes during which time I was - according to your forensic data interrupting the RTH and redirecting it to return back to whence it came.  Gentlemen you give me too much credit. I wouldn't have a clue as to how to redirect a RTH flight much less sent it back to almost where it  started  its  RTH from"

Recorded data in a flighlog is showing different story.
1) At 4m43 RTH message on the SC, followed by countdown 9 -1 to initiate RTH by software. RTH was not initiated by you.
2) no signs of weak signal in the log before or in the RTH ** . All records are in the log, no signs of a disconnect. As you saw black RC screen, that is not logged and guess you think this is a disconnect.
3) 20 seconds after flying in RTH it was cancelled by you, MAYBY:  black screen on the SC AND pressing the RTH button (as you did) does cancel the ongoing RTH !!
4) Did you mayby by accident yawed the craft while putting SC on your car ?? shortly after press RTH (your actually cancellation) this was done....
5) But than in the log 100% stick down, (from 5m31s to 5m42s ;  why? still black screen or on purpose bringing craft down to lower height?
6) uh? rom 5m50s for 6 seconds again UP steer....why? (moving SC away from car roof and by accidentally touched controls?
7) from 5m57 to full stick forward, flying away from homepoint, till low batt for an autolanding.

**  Only at the end of the flight while in autolanding this "Weak signal. Avoid blocking the antennas and keep the antennas parallel to and facing toward the aircraft during flight"

I do not have a anwser to the 46% batt level at start of your flight, makes no tech sense to have charged this battery to 100% the day before.
Part of my post-takeoff checks is a batt level check, on % and batt volts.

I you buy another drone my advice, fly always with a screen recorder active, so each flight can be replayed to see what did happen, and what you (or me) missed on the screen while watching the bird fly/talk to friends closeby/ect.

Cheers
JJB