Hey,

on wednesday the 6th I've been out flying my Air 2 in a cold and foggy environment.

After 2:30 the drone committed suicide.
So ofc. I instantly did an inquiry as soon as I came home.

Filled in all the details (it's insane that the description is limited to a few hundred words, you should remove that dji), uploaded a video to YouTube and inserted a link to some images showing the moisture indicators still being white when picking up the crippled bird.

What enrages me is that after waiting a few days, I contacted the support today and I basically found out that there has been some non-explainable issues, which resulted in the case to 'not be saved correctly'. When checking the case number it's just stuck in awaiting package even tho I haven't received any label yet.

So the support told me to just open up another inquiry, which I just did now. Flaming around about that wouldn't give me anything I guess, still, extremely annoying. Especially because I would've been waiting until the end of my days if I hadn't contacted the support.

I would like to explain the incident a bit closer tho.

Basically all weather services were displaying ~10km/h wind speeds without any gusts.
There have been no warnings whatsoever and the transmission quality was perf.
Still, the drone struggled to do panorama shots because it wasn't really staying as steady in the air as it used to.

After 2mins the drone started drifting around and steadily lowering it's altitude, heading into a concrete tower.
No reaction to any steering attempts whatsoever.
What bothers me is that in the cached video it is clearly visible that the drone lost balance in the air already, there was no sign of a bird hit or smth similar.
it also shows that it collided with the tower after already falling towards the ground.



Seems like only time will tell me the reason of why it crashed like that.
I can definitely say tho, that what I experienced till now wouldn't lead me into buying from DJI again.
From now on it will probably take weeks until I receive my drone back, I mean it hasn't even left my home due to DJI's system failure.
Also not looking forward on paying the 70€ for a replacement even though the drone just committed suicide without any warning or critical conditions. That's just odd.
There's no way DJI will consider it a warranty case because of the mere fact I flew the drone in fog, even tho vision was always present, there was no moisture in the drone and signal was splendid. It's just annoying, insanely annoying.

Cheers.

Cold + Fog can cause the props to build up enough ice to crash,  its been discussed recently on a number of posts on the forum,   check this link for more details - https://dronedj.com/2021/01/04/w ... crash-due-to-icing/

DAFlys Posted at 1-11 09:58
Cold + Fog can cause the props to build up enough ice to crash,  its been discussed recently on a number of posts on the forum,   check this link for more details - https://dronedj.com/2021/01/04/weather-matters-how-fog-caused-a-mini-2-drone-to-crash-due-to-icing/

Hey, that is obviously a valid theory. But definitely not at - 1°c  after 2 minutes of flight.
Like I said, the Drone already failed staying steady moments after takeoff, so there's probably more to it than icing

Christianslw Posted at 1-11 11:36
Hey, that is obviously a valid theory. But definitely not at - 1°c  after 2 minutes of flight.
Like I said, the Drone already failed staying steady moments after takeoff, so there's probably more to it than icing

It sure where you check your weather, but most places quote at ground level not in the sky.   I use a free app called UAV forecast and it’s amazing how things change over a few hundred feet.  

DAFlys Posted at 1-11 11:59
It sure where you check your weather, but most places quote at ground level not in the sky.   I use a free app called UAV forecast and it’s amazing how things change over a few hundred feet.

Thanks for the info, the app seems interesting. Might check that out. However I can be pretty sure the temparature was about right, since I was positioned above the drone and the thermometer was showing --1°c. Anway, I hope DJI will actually watch the video instead of just passing the case trough.

Christianslw Posted at 1-11 11:36
Hey, that is obviously a valid theory. But definitely not at - 1°c  after 2 minutes of flight.
Like I said, the Drone already failed staying steady moments after takeoff, so there's probably more to it than icing

Pilots know that icing can occur even at temperatures above freezing. And the leading edges of the props move through enough moisture to pick up ice quickly, which will reduce lift and can also create and imbalance.

It would be interesting to see the logs and check if any errors were reported prior to the crash.

Tell me which one's and I'll upload them.
Btw. 2 minutes for stuff to freeze is still a vague theory.

Supercooled water is still a liquid at or below freezing so it is possible you built up ice on the props (even in two minutes flying in the fog).
I would think you should have seen a motor error if it was in fact icing.

Hope all works out in the end and in your favor.

Lisa3 AKA Karen Posted at 1-12 08:42
Supercooled water is still a liquid at or below freezing so it is possible you built up ice on the props (even in two minutes flying in the fog).
I would think you should have seen a motor error if it was in fact icing.

it was showing "max motor current reached" or smth, dunno was german.
Basically that should happen when the drone is flying at high speeds or needs to resist strong winds, right?
Thanks, I'm sure it will, but seems like it'll take quite a long time.

You should post a link to your logs.  If there was an unrelated hardware failure to the weather others can help to identify it.  Without that information you are out the Refresh Care fee.

Hi there, I'm sorry to read and to know about the incident that you've encountered with your DJI Mavic Air 2, I tried to check the case number or ticket number under your DJI Forum account, however, I was not able to find it. Could you please provide me the ticket number or if you had successfully created the case, kindly provide it? You can either reply to this thread or send me a PM, thank you.

DJI Diana Posted at 1-12 11:00
Hi there, I'm sorry to read and to know about the incident that you've encountered with your DJI Mavic Air 2, I tried to check the case number or ticket number under your DJI Forum account, however, I was not able to find it. Could you please provide me the ticket number or if you had successfully created the case, kindly provide it? You can either reply to this thread or send me a PM, thank you.

I am going insane if the system screwed me over twice.
Here are the two case numbers:

CAS-5746187-L7N8P0
CAS-5751017-H3H7M9

both printed out already, so I'm not insane.
Going to contact Amazon tomorrow and hope they can somewhat help me reaching dji in the first place. Because that's starting to feel like a scam.

JohnLietzke Posted at 1-12 10:04
You should post a link to your logs.  If there was an unrelated hardware failure to the weather others can help to identify it.  Without that information you are out the Refresh Care fee.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1wSazoEUXUzyPVfuwSig04ABji7gntl3F?usp=sharing

when checking I found out that 30 secs after the start (when it started not really flying back or staying steady) there actually was an motor error.

Christianslw Posted at 1-12 11:46
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1wSazoEUXUzyPVfuwSig04ABji7gntl3F?usp=sharing

when checking I found out that 30 secs after the start (when it started not really flying back or staying steady) there actually was an motor error.

I also see that you had the warning at 00:32.  Then nothing for almost 2 minutes.  Then the Motor Blocked and Not Enough Force at 02:30 warning.  It was too late at that point.  The fact that the Motor Warning did not persist after 00:32 until 02:30 is strange.  It seems as though the error cleared itself and you may not have even had time to recognize that something was wrong.  

You sure bungled your drone.  It is the most damage I have seen posted on here from a crash.

JohnLietzke Posted at 1-12 12:39
I also see that you had the warning at 00:32.  Then nothing for almost 2 minutes.  Then the Motor Blocked and Not Enough Force at 02:30 warning.  It was too late at that point.  The fact that the Motor Warning did not persist after 00:32 until 02:30 is strange.  It seems as though the error cleared itself and you may not have even had time to recognize that something was wrong.  

You sure bungled your drone.  It is the most damage I have seen posted on here from a crash.

Yes, at 02:30 the drone already hit ground. I really didn't notice the error, or well, it disappeared after a split moment.

I just reached out to Amazon right now and they provided me a shipment label and the offer to either repair- or replace the drone for free.

I'm insanely happy that I don't have to rely on DJI in this case, as it seems there's something wrong with the inquiry system rn.

Definitely hit me right to my heart to see the drone that I just got two months ago completely ripped ...

Hi,

Sorry for your loss!
Hope you have the video, must be fun to start a flight from the tower platform.

Yellow line is where the drone moves without RC pitch and roll input, so indeed  not steady at all.

cheers
JJB

JJB* Posted at 1-12 12:56
Hi,

Sorry for your loss!

Yes, it's quite alright as u have a lot of space on the antenna platform.

In case u're wondering, there's no antennas in the flight direction.

Can't tell you more tho as we are not allowed to share pictures of the antenna diagramms or other documents.
(I'll ask for permission to upload some footage of other flights in the future, maybe u're interested in big concrete towers )

JJB* Posted at 1-12 12:56
Hi,

Sorry for your loss!

So from the limited impressions, what would be your conclusion?

An error that was present before the start already, or something like icing or a prop hit?

Christianslw Posted at 1-12 12:51
Yes, at 02:30 the drone already hit ground. I really didn't notice the error, or well, it disappeared after a split moment.

I just reached out to Amazon right now and they provided me a shipment label and the offer to either repair- or replace the drone for free.

Amazon is awesome.  They truly take care of their customers.  I bet you have a new drone in a week to 10 days.  

Seems like only time will tell me the reason of why it crashed like that.
...
I hope DJI will actually watch the video instead of just passing the case trough.
Flight data is much more useful than a video to show what happened and investigate the cause of an incident.
What happened to your data?
All I see in your download link is two photos.

it was showing "max motor current reached" or smth, dunno was german.
Basically that should happen when the drone is flying at high speeds or needs to resist strong winds, right?
That means the props are spinning fast without providing enough thrust.
It could be an indication of prop icing.

Going to contact Amazon tomorrow and hope they can somewhat help me reaching dji in the first place. Because that's starting to feel like a scam.
It seems more like a new flyer with limited understanding.

Labroides Posted at 1-12 13:48
Seems like only time will tell me the reason of why it crashed like that.
...
I hope DJI will actually watch the video instead of just passing the case trough.

Thank you for your useful answer.

unfortunately it is completely irrelevant wether I'm a newbie or not, that shouldn't really justify the fact that DJI failed to save both my inquiries, without giving any feedback until I contacted them myself.

I'm not persisting on the case being a technical defect, I'm foremost sceptical about the icing, as obviously there's been issues directly after take-off.

Besides, the main issue here is DJI not processing my inquiry.
I'm not quite sure why you can't view the link, as other's been able to and I can still view it without any problems.

Christianslw Posted at 1-12 13:55
Thank you for your useful answer.

unfortunately it is completely irrelevant wether I'm a newbie or not, that shouldn't really justify the fact that DJI failed to save both my inquiries, without giving any feedback until I contacted them myself.

unfortunately it is completely irrelevant wether I'm a newbie or not
I didn't make any comment on what DJI did, only the incident.
But you being a newbie is relevant because you aren't aware of what's important and what can cause real issues in flight.

I'm foremost sceptical about the icing, as obviously there's been issues directly after take-off.
There .. you have no understanding of flight issues and what causes them, but you are dismissing what's quite likely to have been the actual issue.

I'm not quite sure why you can't view the link, as other's been able to and I can still view it without any problems.
I've downloaded it three times and each time, all I get is a zip file containing two jpg files showing your drone.

Labroides Posted at 1-12 14:04
unfortunately it is completely irrelevant wether I'm a newbie or not
I didn't make any comment on what DJI did, only the incident.
But you being a newbie is relevant because you aren't aware of what's important and what can cause real issues in flight.

So "a new flyer with limited understanding" is objectively absolutely right.

I don't know why you would quote me on the amazon part though, as I think it's absolutely justified to be upset about DJI's service in this case.

From reading trough other threads I def. understand that icing is an issue, - however I didn't deny the issue itself.
Crucial to me is the time, as 30 secs into the flight it was pretty much impossible to land the drone safely, considering it was already drifting around.

I think a important factor would be me launching the drone above the visible fog layer
and it  lowered it's altitude into the fog, where it lost balance shortly after.

In the end I'll probably stay tapping in the dark, because I'm more into the amazon option rather than waiting another week until actually receiving the return label.

I can try uploading the log to mediafire or smth tomorrow, if you still want to check it out ofc.

Create a free account on airdata.com and upload your .txt file there. Then post a link to it here. That site or phantomhelp.com (not working right now)  will be very useful in the future.

edit: I posted this because I cannot see his log file

Christianslw Posted at 1-12 11:43
I am going insane if the system screwed me over twice.
Here are the two case numbers:

Thank you for the information, I'll have this forwarded to our designated team for further checking and assistance. If there is a new update, we'll notify you as well, thank you.

Christianslw Posted at 1-12 13:03
So from the limited impressions, what would be your conclusion?

An error that was present before the start already, or something like icing or a prop hit?

Hi,

If you ask me,  icing on props. Flying cold temps in Fog is recipe for icing. Built up really fast, props are rotating roughly 10k rpm.

In temps below + 5C with high humidity = be carefull.

And there was a warning :  "Motorfehler. Bitte Propeller und Motor berprfen." at 32 seconds in flight. Knowing about icing and this message : better to quickly land.

Your flight looked oke in the beginning, fly forward 9 meters form the tower, turned the drone towards you and flew backward further. At that time drone was responding to the given inputs. So imo possible to fly her back and land.

On your mob device yopu can find DAT file ; its FLY057.DAT.  If you like put a cloud-link to that file , more info in there (motor rpm in there)
cheers
JJB

GaryDoug Posted at 1-12 15:09
Create a free account on airdata.com and upload your .txt file there. Then post a link to it here. That site or phantomhelp.com (not working right now)  will be very useful in the future.

Hi Gary,

This flight was not on 1.2.2 ; PH does work great.

cheers
JJB

JJB* Posted at 1-13 01:10
Hi,

If you ask me,  icing on props. Flying cold temps in Fog is recipe for icing. Built up really fast, props are rotating roughly 10k rpm.

The dat files are not being saved on my device, I've been googling and it seems to be a common error on the android dji app.
I did reinstall it now, so it will hopefully capture my stuff in the future.

So the message 30 secs into the flight was barely showing, in fact I only just noticed it when viewing the logs yesterday.
Basically it cleared itself for some reason after just a quick moment.

Like I said the Drone has been above the fog layer until something like 1 min into the flight, where it directly dipped down into the fog, from where it crashed shortly after, probably of the mentioned icing.
I heard that the dat files are also saved on the Drone, but I absolutely can't do anything with the Drone at that state.

Christianslw Posted at 1-13 02:04
The dat files are not being saved on my device, I've been googling and it seems to be a common error on the android dji app.
I did reinstall it now, so it will hopefully capture my stuff in the future.

Hi,

My tips:

I always fly with a screen recorder active, so i can watch my app-flight again and see what i have (mayby) missed on the app screen (always put the volume at max when flying).
Auto sync in the app is disabled, after eacht flight i download the flightlog.txt and the DAT from my device, before syncing with DJI.

DAT files saved in the drone cannot be read. (encrypted).

cheers
JJB

Thanks for the tips, I'll be doing some things different next time.

JJB* Posted at 1-13 01:11
Hi Gary,

This flight was not on 1.2.2 ; PH does work great.

Where are you guys seeing the log file? I can't see it, only two images.

GaryDoug Posted at 1-13 07:45
Where are you guys seeing the log file? I can't see it, only two images.

his post #13

JJB* Posted at 1-13 12:21
his post #13

Doesn't work for me. When I follow that link, all I see are two image files.

GaryDoug Posted at 1-13 13:11
Doesn't work for me. When I follow that link, all I see are two image files.

i see, guess the OP removed his log from that zip file.
I downloaded this zip with 3 files.

Bear in mind that due to how lift is generated, the pressure above the airfoil will be lower and the temperature cooler -- this can cause the moisture in the air to condense and freeze even when the ambient temperature is above freezing.

MisterFrag Posted at 1-13 15:05
Bear in mind that due to how lift is generated, the pressure above the airfoil will be lower and the temperature cooler -- this can cause the moisture in the air to condense and freeze even when the ambient temperature is above freezing.

Hi, can you please elaborate on the cooler temp in relation to the the lower pressure?
Thanks

Christianslw Posted at 1-12 11:43
I am going insane if the system screwed me over twice.
Here are the two case numbers:

Hi there, we have coordinated your concern to our relative team and I've sent you a PM regarding the concern. We will need to verify some information regarding the case, please check, thank you.

Lisa3 AKA Karen Posted at 1-13 16:05
Hi, can you please elaborate on the cooler temp in relation to the the lower pressure?
Thanks

The process is known as adiabatic cooling. As the pressure acting on the air above the airfoil decreases, the air expands and loses energy, cooling the air.

MisterFrag Posted at 1-13 18:35
The process is known as adiabatic cooling. As the pressure acting on the air above the airfoil decreases, the air expands and loses energy, cooling the air.

Hi, thanks for responding.
Do you believe in this instance the temp change would be measurable?
Due to the pressure differential and continues air movement  will it apply in this instance?

Interesting theory, I’ll measure the temps around my drone to see if it should be a concern for drone pilots.

Thanks again.

Lisa3 AKA Karen Posted at 1-14 03:26
Hi, thanks for responding.
Do you believe in this instance the temp change would be measurable?
Due to the pressure differential and continues air movement  will it apply in this instance?

I’ll measure the temps around my drone to see if it should be a concern for drone pilots.
More than a theory.
Quite a few have been lost because of icing props in cold, foggy conditions.
Just a bit of ice on the props completely changes their aerodynamic characteristics (for the worse).