I currently own a Phantom 2 with zenmuse & GoPro 3+ Black and 5 ghz receiver / monitor.   I'm thinking of upgrading to a Phantom 3 system.   Since I don't own a Smart phone or Tablet I'll be looking to buy something for the Phantoms FPV display.    I'm eyeing an Apple iPad Mini 2 32gb Tablet.   But I'm not sure if I should order the tablet with the basic WiFi capability, or should I get the WiFi + Cellular network model.   Is there anything in the DJI Pilot app or other DJI flight control software that needs a real-time Internet connection?

young.selina@ro Posted at 2015-7-8 16:11
This question has been asked many times on this and other dji forums - a simple search would have re ...

I did a search and could not find what I was looking for.   Also, the link you provided did not answer my question.

I'm not looking to pick a device.  I've already settled on one.  I'm asking does the Phantom 3 FPV device require a live Internet connection for any of the flight control software.

young.selina@ro Posted at 2015-7-8 16:21
The only thing that the app requires is map data - but this can be cached... furthermore, it is advi ...

Great.  Thanks for the info.   The iPad Mini 2 with cellular capabilities is about $150 more than the basic WiFi only model.    If I don't need the cellular capabilities, I can save on the purchase price and on a monthly cellular network plan.

young.selina@ro Posted at 2015-7-8 18:05
That's correct - had you looked at the list of recommended devices you would have seen that both non ...

Your comment makes no sense.   I did look at the list of Phantom 3 supported devices on the DJI web site.   There's a mix of both IOS and Android Cellular phones and Tablets.    But that tells me nothing.   Tablets can have optional cellular capability, so simply looking at the list of devices that have, or could have, cellular capabilities has nothing to with what are desirable FPV device features in Phantom software.   The DJI device list makes no reference to device features.  

If Internet connectivity is not required, but may be advantageous for some Phantom related applications, DJI did not provide enough detail in their list to make an informed purchase.   I was hoping that someone from DJI would step in and offer a recommendation.

As to the IOS platform being the better choice, I'm hearing from many people who concur with your finding.   That is why I decided to go with an Apple iPad Mini 2 or 3.   

nfatoys@hotmail Posted at 2015-7-8 16:28
Great.  Thanks for the info.   The iPad Mini 2 with cellular capabilities is about $150 more than  ...

I was in the same situation 2 weeks ago and I decided to get a secondhand iPad mini 2 just with 16GB and wifi only.

Works perfect for the P3P setup - before flight I just share my network from my mobile when map is cashed I then set the ipad in fligh mode to ensure zero disturbance.

The resolution on the mini 2 is awesome but as for all tablets outdoor in sunlight you will need a sunshade solution. For this there are plenty options where the cheapest is to make one you self.

I also tested it with a Android nexus 7 II - but for some reason I had some lost connections and ocational lag. But I know hat many here are using Android devices and have no problems.

but in short just get the WIFI

nfatoys@hotmail Posted at 2015-7-8 21:05
Your comment makes no sense.   I did look at the list of Phantom 3 supported devices on the DJI web ...

Prior to my purchase of the iPad mini 3, I looked at the number of Android devises supported, verses IOS units, and picked IOS.  

I didn't need another cellular bill so I passed on that feature. Maps can be cashed for use, so it's no big deal to have field access.

I compared features between the Mini and Air versions, and found figment issues on the Air not fitting some holders. Processor performance wise, the Air beats the Mini.

If I had to purchase again, I'd get the Air2. B&H Photo Video has had a deal on both units the past couple of days.  

gregg1r Posted at 2015-7-8 23:19
Prior to my purchase of the iPad mini 3, I looked at the number of Android devises supported, vers ...

Thanks for replying guys.   I looked at an iPad Air, and it was really BIG.   Have you actually tried clamping an iPad Air or Air 2 in the Phantom controllers grip mount?   I'm a little cautious that it might not fit.

I'm a senior software engineer who designed scientific software that runs on PCs for the test and measurement instrumentation industry.    So my background is with PCs.    I have a desktop PC and a Netgear wireless router that I use to stream Netflix and Amazon Prime HD video to my Sony Internet capable TV.    Since I don't have a Smart phone or any Apple products other than an iPod, how would I get the GPS maps loaded into the iPad?   

nfatoys@hotmail Posted at 2015-7-9 01:28
Thanks for replying guys.   I looked at an iPad Air, and it was really BIG.   Have you actually tr ...

For caching maps to the iPad, you would set the unit up using your wireless network, then use the map caching function.

The iPad Air and Air 2 both fit the holder on the remote. It's a tight squeeze, but fits.

My reasoning for a new iPad Air 2 purchase would be the mightier processor, the 8AX. It's got about 30% more power than the A7 used in the Mini 2/3.

My PC's are either HP Work stations or Dell Precision mobile work stations. I'm using a 801.N access point for the faster transfer rates. For moving files like the Pilot app and cached maps, it's not needed.

The Pilot app has a button that's four dots in the upper right corner. Tap that button, then tap the same four dots on the lower left side, drag up on the menu till you see, cache maps in the background.

I prefer the iPad with at least 64 gb of storage. that combined with a few batteries gives you an hour of flight and video storage per session.  The fast access point will allow you the ability to get the images off the iPad quick.

nfatoys@hotmail Posted at 2015-7-8 21:05
Your comment makes no sense.   I did look at the list of Phantom 3 supported devices on the DJI web ...

I use an iPad Air2.  It does fit into the bracket.  But it's a bit larger than needed.
With the Apple iPad devices they require the cellular versions to have GPS capability.  The WiFi models do not have any GPS capability.  (The GPS receiver is built into the cellular chip.)  With android tablets it varies from model to model.

While the current iOS apps don't really take much advantage of GPS in the tablet...  Future planned features will allow dynamic home point.  (The drone can follow you in a moving vehicle and return to your current position as a home point.)  So if you want to take advantage of the planned dynamic home point feature in the future you need to get an iPad with the cellular chipset to have a GPS in the tablet.  You might be able to use a Garmin or Dual bluetooth GPS connected to the tablet but that means running the bluetooth radio in the tablet while flying.

You do NOT need to have a cellular data plan if you don't want one.  I have an iPad with the cellular chipset so I can use the iPad for car navigation and take advantage of the dynamic home point in future app releases.  But I don't pay for a data plan.  I suppose you might want a cellular data plan if you intend to broadcast live video on youtube while flying in a remote location.  I have never tried that.

As for internet connection...  You need an internet connection to load maps.  But you can use your home WiFi to load maps and cache them.  And then switch WiFi off for flying.

I NEVER fly with the tablet's radios on.  There is more chance of interference with the lightbridge radios if the tablet's bluetooth, Wifi & cell radios are turned on.  I fly with the tablet set to airplane mode.  I use cached maps.

In general...  I have read far more more complaints about lagging video and overheating problems from Android users on this forum than from iOS.  (But certainly both iOS and Android users have complained of lagging video.)   DJI posted an official comment suggesting that people experiencing lagging issues disable the map logging feature, enable hardware video decoding and disable live view recording.  These other background tasks seem to be overheating some tablets forcing them to slow down the processor to prevent damage.  (This results in poor live view performance.)

Hopefully these issue will be improved in future app & firmware releases.

Fulgerite Posted at 2015-7-9 03:43
I use an iPad Air2.  It does fit into the bracket.  But it's a bit larger than needed.
With the App ...

Ok.  If I understand what you're telling me, the iPad by itself doesn't have any built-in GPS capability.   But the iPad with Cellular does, because the GPS capability exists in the Cellular chipset, right?

nfatoys@hotmail Posted at 2015-7-9 03:57
Ok.  If I understand what you're telling me, the iPad by itself doesn't have any built-in GPS capa ...

Exactly.  You have it right.

You can call an apple store and ask for confirmation if you want to...

But I have bought & sold hundreds of iPads for my day job.

The Wifi iPad models do not have a built in GPS.  The Cellular iPads DO have GPS.

But the tablet's GPS is not actually used in the current DJI Pilot app.  Future versions may take advantage of the GPS though.

Fulgerite Posted at 2015-7-9 04:26
Exactly.  You have it right.

You can call an apple store and ask for confirmation if you want to. ...

Your information is just what I was looking for.   When I asked about the Cellular option I clumsily worded my question that I was looking towards the future of Phantom flight software.    I'd hate to spend nearly $600 on an iPad that can't be used with new software that uses GPS at the Remote Control position.

Thanks again.

Here is an article that also confirms that 3G/4G/LTE chip is required for GPS in the iPad.

http://ipadpilotnews.com/2015/01/does-ipad-have-real-gps/

Fulgerite Posted at 2015-7-9 05:19
Here is an article that also confirms that 3G/4G/LTE chip is required for GPS in the iPad.

http://i ...

There has to be something operating as a GPS, as I get a location data of my home on Google maps when using the iPad Mini3 wifi only.

The entire house is wired and nothing else is supplying a GPS location to Google Maps.

gregg1r Posted at 2015-7-9 05:45
There has to be something operating as a GPS, as I get a location data of my home on Google maps w ...

The Apple iOS is very, very smart.  It will use every bit of information it can gather to "approximate" your location.  (Even without GPS data.) Your home Wifi hotspot provides some information about your location.  Because your ISP KNOWS where you live.  (Thats how they send you a BILL.)  And your ISP SELLS that data to outside providors.  (Kinda scarry huh?) Your iOS device has access to that position data without ANY GPS data when you are connected to a Wifi hotspot.


OK...  Walk outside (OUT OF WIFI RANGE.  No WiFi hotspot.)  try again.  Your iPad will NOT locate your position.   (GPS required in that situation.)

iPads...  Can use WiFi information to "approximate" your position.  But if you are in the middle of a Forrest there is NO WiFi!  So your map will NOT update outside a WiFi hotspot.

In order for an iPad to use it's internal GPS receiver to locate your position it must have the HARDWARE CHIP to receive this GPS information.  That GPS CHIP is NOT included in the WiFi iPad models.  The only way to GET the GPS chip on an iPad is to BUY the Cellular version which DOES include the GPS receiver.

Get it?  (I just can't think of any way to make it more clear...)

I understand how the system is supposed to work without wifi, but what you fail to take into account is that the Phantom has a built in GPS.

When I fly in the back yard, the maps provided in the Pilot app, show the actual location that I'm flying not the location that was pinned for my house. The Pilot app is also pulling GPS data from the Phantom to feed to Google and the Pilot app maps. My workshop in in the rear of the property and I usually do post flight check-ups over the quad and review the data. I have no wifi in the shop. The GPS location of the flights is almost dead on where I was flying.

There are a lot of "ifs and maybe's" regarding the future use of GPS in an iPad for flying.
Maybe there will be a future use for it, but maybe not.
And even if there is, you need to determine if it is a function you will want or need very often, and is it worth an additional monthly bill?

This is one case where I wouldn't recommend spending a lot in the hopes of future proofing your tablet, especially if you are buying one almost exclusively for flying.

It would depend also if you are using your P3 in a business or expert setting, or just an enthusiast who wants to have fun with it.

Personally, I already owned an iPad mini 2 and it has worked flawlessly so far.  Plus, I think it is at the sweet spot of size vs. weight.

Fulgerite Posted at 2015-7-9 07:25
The Apple iOS is very, very smart.  It will use every bit of information it can gather to "approxim ...

Fulgerite, is this what you were describing with regard to GPS in the Remote?

nfatoys@hotmail Posted at 2015-7-8 16:28
Great.  Thanks for the info.   The iPad Mini 2 with cellular capabilities is about $150 more than  ...

Just know that if you don't get cellular you also won't have GPS. GPS is nice if you want to have a dynamic home point.

nfatoys@hotmail Posted at 2015-7-9 22:09
Fulgerite, is this what you were describing with regard to GPS in the Remote?

set home point

Yes.  It simply shows the difference between an iPad with Cell chipset vs none.  (In the current app.)
Future versions of the app may add new features like "follow me" or orbit around a fixed point etc...