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P2 + vision crash
3217 23 2014-9-20
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fslpc9
lvl.1

Saudi Arabia
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Hi all , See accached vedio ,,
Descending Vertical down , Became out of control .
It was First Flight
2014-9-20
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kgarrison
First Officer
Flight distance : 7375597 ft
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United States
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First mistake - flying with prop guards
Second mistake - descending straight down

Always be moving when descending straight down or you get caught up in your own prop wash which can be bad. Is the gimbal destroyed?
2014-9-20
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fslpc9
lvl.1

Saudi Arabia
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Thanx for valid Info.
I thought the prob guards very helpfuul to protect probs !!
unfortunately Yes I lost the gimbal and camera
2014-9-20
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kgarrison
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fslpc9@gmail.co Posted at 2014-9-21 14:10
Thanx for valid Info.
I thought the prob guards very helpfuul to protect probs !!
unfortunately Yes  ...

If you are in the US, we can sell you a new gimbal.

http://multicopterwarehouse.com
2014-9-20
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thomaskim558
lvl.4
Flight distance : 865177 ft
Singapore
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it should be a system problem but even it's dji's fault, dji do nothing
2014-9-21
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jsgosin
lvl.1

United States
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kgarrison@gmail Posted at 2014-9-21 14:03
First mistake - flying with prop guards
Second mistake - descending straight down

Why do you say to not fly with prop guards?  
2014-9-21
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rceagle1
lvl.2
United States
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Funny what I read about prop guards, a few say bad ALOT say good.
2014-9-21
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fslpc9
lvl.1

Saudi Arabia
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I'm not in US , as you can see , the crash happened in RIYADH , SA

Tha's mean I'll remove the prob guards for all my phantoms !!
2014-9-21
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jozab71
New

Colombia
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STEP TO ME IN THE SAME FLIGHT SECOND THIS UNIT IS NO GOOD AND TOOK OVER 2 MONTHS IN TECHNICAL SUPPORT AND DO NOT RESPOND TO NOTHING WRONG SERVICE DJI
2014-9-21
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fslpc9
lvl.1

Saudi Arabia
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DJI shuold do somthing about it , They can't sell it whlie there is a technical esues .
2014-9-22
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readysetclickap
lvl.1

United States
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I've fallen victim to this same thing as well, I feel your pain. Luckily I wasn't too high up and the only thing that was broken was my props.

I have read up on this after my crashes and found some advice. Your natural reaction when you see the "death wobble" and the Phantom dropping is to push up and try to ascend the quad. This does nothing. Instead, you should push down to descend WHILE ALSO pushing up on the other stick to make the Phantom to FORWARD. This will help get the Phantom out of it's "bad air" and into "good air". Hopefully it's enough that the Phantom corrects it self.
2014-9-22
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kgarrison
First Officer
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A gimbal getting broken during a crash is not a design issue, its a pilot issue. These copters are not designed to take hard landings. This is not DJI's fault, they have to be light in order to have any flight time. Simple solution, don't crash them.

readysetclickap - that is not correct, to get out of it, you go FULL throttle and Forward. If you reduce throttle you may not be able to recover at all.
2014-9-22
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Tony
Second Officer
Flight distance : 2856060 ft
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United States
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Agree with above poster, this is not a DJI issue and they simply can not help everyone who falls victim to Vortex Ring State, or prop wash which is exactly what happened here in my opinion. Unfortunately all we can do is hope to educate everyone on the dangers of descending straight down, and especially when using prop guards. I did TONS of research before my first flight and new what to expect and I still ran into a prop wash situation. Luckily I was flying high enough and new how to escape it, and survived. I have since removed the prop guards and have not experienced it yet. And that is not to say there is something wrong with the prop guards! They definitely serve a purpose, you just have to be extra careful when descending no matter what and extra careful with prop guards. Always keep the phantom moving, whether forward, backward, or to either side, or do like me and take a steady corkscrew pattern whenever descending. Just NEVER straight down into all of that turbulent air.

Sorry to hear about your crash. Hopefully threads like this one will help get the word out about prop wash and prevent others from falling victim as well.
2014-9-22
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hd_ultra
lvl.4

United States
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I think prop guards serve as a purpose.  For learning they can save you from destroying props. Once you feel comfortable in controlling your phantom, to me were not necessary anymore. Prop wash sucks but its just part of the hobby. Also flying on windy days can be a problem with prop guards. Advice, train with them and then expose of them when your comfortable. \m/
PS. The other thing I see here is that they were not DJI Guards. After market guards are very flimsey.
2014-9-22
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fslpc9
lvl.1

Saudi Arabia
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hank you guys for the value information , Some of it I just know it in this thread , also it's good for the beginners .
2014-9-22
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m.Sauteraud
lvl.1

France
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Hi everybody,

In a vortex case, the worth action is to increase the power, you will accelarate the vortex. The Best way to leave the vortex is to move the drone horizontally to leave the vortex area. If possible, reduce the power at the same time. I'm helicopter pilot, the vortex is à known phenomena, I've saved all my crew many years ago with such an action and saved my Phantom 2 Too ;-)

You can detect a vortex when you descend straight down at a special speed (depending of V/S, weight, wind...) and then your drone is running wildly unstable. First reduce the rate of descend and if the drone is still unstable, immediatly move your drone horizontally to leave the dangerous vortex area.
DJI has updated the flight controllers by reducing the rate of descent, maybe a good attempt but it's impossible to make algorithms to avoid vortex that depends of variable data (Vertical speed, weight of the drone, number of motors, wind).

2014-9-23
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m.Sauteraud
lvl.1

France
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post cancelled
2014-9-23
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Tony
Second Officer
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fslpc9@gmail.co Posted at 2014-9-23 13:50
hank you guys for the value information , Some of it I just know it in this thread , also it's good  ...

Exactly! Getting this information out there will help prevent future occurrences and make everyone happier in the long run.
2014-9-23
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m.Sauteraud
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France
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m.Sauteraud Posted at 2014-9-23 19:40
Hi everybody,

In a vortex case, the worth action is to increase the power, you will accelarate the  ...

I'm glad to be understood cause my english/american is rather poor.
I'm happy that my opinion is shared, so that we can avoid crash of our Phantoms. I repeat that the Vortex is not the fault of DJI, it's an aerodynamic problem.
2014-9-23
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m.Sauteraud
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France
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thomaskim558@gm Posted at 2014-9-21 18:55
it should be a system problem but even it's dji's fault, dji do nothing

It's not a DJI fault, it's an aerodynamic phenomena, see my posts above and below
2014-9-23
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Robejohn
New

Spain
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Same thing happened to me. The drone started wobbling, more and more, I tried to fly forward and up, but no response. It was 7-8 knots wind. After a few seconds it fell from 7-8 meters, in the sea, 3-4 meters from the shoreline. (I ordered a new the same day)
2015-1-3
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aschi.grindelwa
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Switzerland
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m.Sauteraud Posted at 2014-9-23 22:57
I'm glad to be understood cause my english/american is rather poor.
I'm happy that my opinion is s ...

Absoloutly, its aerodynamic problem! I noticed that using the stiff carbon props the vortex danger is quite high, using the white soft plastic props easyer! And props are cheaper than a gimbal with camera! Sorry about my english...I live in Grindelwald Switzerland and my language is german! I am flying my P2v+ since 7 months.
2015-1-3
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b.w.j
Second Officer

Denmark
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Prob guards don't accelerate VRS state, they don't have influence on that, the only issue can be more instability in strong winds.
2015-1-3
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viper46664
lvl.1

United States
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kgarrison@gmail Posted at 2014-9-21 14:03
First mistake - flying with prop guards
Second mistake - descending straight down

I have a quick question.  How do you descend and move forward at the same time.  When I am descending, Nothing happens when I try to move any other direction?
2015-1-3
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