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PAL/NTSC 4K 25/30FPS
9013 14 2015-7-13
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w1der
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Sweden
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Hello gang ...

This one is towards the ones of you that knows stuff about the standards with video editing and such.

With todays screens does it really matter if I shoot PAL or NTSC ?

As I am in Sweden the standard is PAL.
But with this setting I only get 25fps with 4K video.
If I change to NTSC I get 30fps.

Question:
Should I ignore the PAL as standard and go with NTSC instead to get more fps?  
Any downside as to not using PAL for me?
2015-7-13
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jimhare
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Australia
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For computer screens it doesn't make a difference at all, choose based on what looks best to you.

For TV/DVD and so on then the PAL/NTSC thing definitely still applies.

Sometimes you may also want to shoot NTSC and slow it down to PAL to smooth out the motion.   So shooting NTSC may be good anyway, even if you intend on mastering in PAL.

2015-7-13
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w1der
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Sweden
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jimhare Posted at 2015-7-13 16:24
For computer screens it doesn't make a difference at all, choose based on what looks best to you.

F ...

Thanks Jim !

I will change my settings to NTSC and shoot with 30fps from now on.

My material will probably be "internet broadcasted", displayed on computer screens, any ways ...
2015-7-13
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jimhare
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w1der Posted at 2015-7-13 17:43
Thanks Jim !

I will change my settings to NTSC and shoot with 30fps from now on.

That makes sense, certainly when it comes to smooth motion.

Sometime try slowing it down to 25 (conform the file, don't just stick it in a slower timeline) and check out the effect.  Can be really interesting.
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EdgyMedia
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Japan
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jimhare Posted at 2015-7-13 18:51
That makes sense, certainly when it comes to smooth motion.

Sometime try slowing it down to 25 ( ...

Isn't the color space different between the two? If it is just going out to the web it shouldn't matter, but if someone burns a BluRay (not sure why anyone would these days, but if they did...) wouldn't it cause problems?
2015-7-13
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jimhare
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EdgyMedia Posted at 2015-7-13 20:21
Isn't the color space different between the two? If it is just going out to the web it shouldn't m ...

They happily coexist and play well together.   They calculate black slightly different from each other but the pieces fall into the right place when they move so you don't get shifts.
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Ozren
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Croatia
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Dont shoot in NTSC. You will have alot of problems converting NTSC to PAL.

If you plan to view your footage on PC, then you will have no problems, but if someone wants to use your footage on TV they will have alot of problems. Matching 2 cameras is a nightmare, matching 2 cameras on 2 different modes is super nightmare.
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w1der
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Sweden
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Now I am getting confused again ...
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EdgyMedia
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Japan
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jimhare Posted at 2015-7-13 20:24
They happily coexist and play well together.   They calculate black slightly different from each o ...

Good to know! Thanks!!
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Rob W
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EdgyMedia Posted at 2015-7-13 21:49
Good to know!  Thanks!!

To make Everything more confusing, I'm also a Swede, and I concur with both Jim and Ozren

Thing is, if you are just shooting for internet videos, framerate does not really matter *so* much, but if your watching on a TV, or through a Mediacenter that is capped to a certain mode (50 or 60), or your HDMI/Audio receiver is set in a certain mode (50 or 60), you have to adjust for that.

Generally (I'm from the old school), if you shoot for PAL audience and film or TV, keep it 25fps or 50fps. Adjust your 25fps footage in post to PAL and 50fps.

For Internet: The above rule is generally right, but on a computer it does not matter so much. Why? There are a lot more things on a computer that often makes or breaks a movie, for instance:

* Slow computer/Graphics card  - Makes the video stutter because it can't keep up ANY framerate.
* Video codec - Video quality, speed, color.
* Monitor color calibration - The look of colors.

So, video for a computer is often more forgiving ;)

2015-7-13
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jimhare
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w1der Posted at 2015-7-13 21:28
Now I am getting confused again ...

Don't worry, nothing to be confused by.   

The poster above was talking about something else, which is mixing formats in a broadcast scenario, which isn't what we're suggesting.

The simple point is you can shoot at 25 or 30 frames per second for computer playback and there are advantages to each.

When I said you could shoot 30 and play back at 25 (this is called conforming and very different to standards conversion) it's so you can slow the footage down which sometimes adds a regal effect to your clips.   Takes the edge off the motion and gives a sense of control and patience.  

So don't worry about the color space, it's all good.  If you're following my advice you're shooting in LOG and grading afterwards anyway.   ;-)

Jim
2015-7-13
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jimhare
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Ozren Posted at 2015-7-13 21:11
Dont shoot in NTSC. You will have alot of problems converting NTSC to PAL.

If you plan to view your ...

Ozren, no one is suggesting this, completely different.     I'm suggesting even if you are in PAL you may choose to CONFORM (not convert) 30FPS footage to play back at 25 to slow it down.   
2015-7-13
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Ozren
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Croatia
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Hey jimhare, i understand what you where saying and i agree.

@ w1der dont be confused, if you want great footage that you can share on PC, watch on TV and even share with a TV production company, shoot what your country says, and thats PAL. 4k @ 25FPS is great, 5 more FPS wont make your footage look great or bad.
2015-7-14
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w1der
Second Officer

Sweden
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Ozren Posted at 2015-7-14 16:47
Hey jimhare, i understand what you where saying and i agree.

@ w1der dont be confused, if you want ...

Just curious ...
I am guessing they shoot Harry Potter (the movie) in NTSC ...
But over here it is "converted" in to PAL ... and it looks great!

I am usually pushing the bird to it´s limits when I am shooting (FULL STICK INPUTS).
I just might need those extra 5 frames per second.  
This is the reason I am trying to learn more about it.
2015-7-14
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Xairoo
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Switzerland
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I have to record @ 30 fps to match my other content like timelapse. 25 fps is too choppy.

Is there a difference between PAL and NTSC when recording with the X5? PAL is better (guess more color), but I really don't know if there is a difference in recording PAL or NTSC @ quality/colors.
Of course I'll use PAL because of the 25 fps/hz thing indoor/electric light (if i'll do this ever), but outdoor I will use 30 fps. 25 fps would be okay if the quality is better (still can convert it to 30 fps, not a big deal with the lost seconds in the footage).

Could someone give me a hint? Thanks!
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