As far as I am concerned (40+ year EE), this is a bug if the firmware is not smart enough to close a video file after the power button is pushed. It is a dynamic operation anyway. It's as if the two things are not connected in the software....stupid.

"They are absolutely necessary with a gimbal camera like the one in the Mini 2."
Sorry - nonsense!
"Motion blur is nothing bad, on the contrary, ..."
Yes it is! You can't watch such recordings without feeling bad ...
And if someone explains to me "the way the eye perceives it", I advise them "if you perceive your surroundings in reality that way, go to the ophthalmologist or drink less!"

ND filters * can * be helpful for certain effects under certain conditions - but are by no means "absolutely necessary"!
The 180 degree rule comes from times when there were mechanical locks - simply because the type of lock required it - that's a nice rule, but not really effective with CCD chips or similar (not completely wrong, but not effective)

There is also no reason to let less light on the chip - just to hide the problem with "motion blur" ?!
This does not eliminate the cause!
In the case of fast movements (especially of the camera), a higher frame rate or even slower movement corrects the cause!
THAT is what a professional should actually know and not explain to you that razor-sharp images are a "video look"!
The films "when the pictures learned to move" cannot be compared with today's videos and their technology - thank God!
Real professionals know that too - that's why you will see little or no such pans that would produce jerky at 24/25 / 30FPS.
And what can be seen as digital noise can be masked by motion blur - but the cause is an over-sharpening of the video combined with little light.
This can be remedied by a slightly brighter picture, which is corrected in the post-processing in the brightness (and if DJI creates the possibility of being able to specify the sharpness in the setting).

In other words, if someone continues to record with 4K30FPS and fast movements / pans and only tries to eliminate the jerking using an ND filter, he will only receive blurred videos that cover the jerking but not eliminate it! If you then play around with the color and apply an "old film" effect in post-production, you will get a video that looks like a film from the 20s - whoever likes it ...

DVDB66 Posted at 4-18 17:11
Sorry, no, I don't agree. ND filters are GREY filters and bring the exposure down 1, 2 ore more stops. They do not alter colors or act like UV filters. They are absolutely necessary in case of a gimbal camera like the one in the Mini 2.  
ND filters in fact do nothing else than to keep the so-called 180 degree rule (google helps), aka that recording in 30fps should be done in 1/60 of shutter speed (25fps = 1/50). Without NDs, your image of course is way too light. This is one of the oldest rules of cinematography, NOT of photography though, the distinction here is super important. ND filters ensure that motion blur actually happens.

I'm well aware of all that.
But I don't agree that motion blur and the 180° rule is necessary.
For most drone videos they aren't at all necessary.
But in drone forums flyers with little knowledge are frequently told they must have motion blur and use the "rule" to take good video.

DVDB66 Posted at 4-18 17:11
Sorry, no, I don't agree. ND filters are GREY filters and bring the exposure down 1, 2 ore more stops. They do not alter colors or act like UV filters. They are absolutely necessary in case of a gimbal camera like the one in the Mini 2.  
ND filters in fact do nothing else than to keep the so-called 180 degree rule (google helps), aka that recording in 30fps should be done in 1/60 of shutter speed (25fps = 1/50). Without NDs, your image of course is way too light. This is one of the oldest rules of cinematography, NOT of photography though, the distinction here is super important. ND filters ensure that motion blur actually happens.

Thanks for that, sounds like solid advice.

There does seem to be a significant amount of data associated with the ND filters and the 180 deg rule. I suspect this may well be my next step in my voyage of discovery.

Thanks

D

GaryDoug Posted at 4-18 18:15
As far as I am concerned (40+ year EE), this is a bug if the firmware is not smart enough to close a video file after the power button is pushed. It is a dynamic operation anyway. It's as if the two things are not connected in the software....stupid.

Well I must say, I have to agree. However I suspect there must be something more to it though than being just a bug. It seems far too simple an issue, and it seems Im far from being the first person to bring up.

Thanks for the thought.

D

ozoffi Posted at 4-18 22:37
"They are absolutely necessary with a gimbal camera like the one in the Mini 2."
Sorry - nonsense!
"Motion blur is nothing bad, on the contrary, ..."

Thanks for the input.

From my end, I fully appreciate that sticking an ND filter on the drone and flying around fast in 4k with a low frame rate is not going to fix anything. I will give them a try however to see what difference the 180 rule achieves though.

The problem I have with my mini is that even in 1080 and 60, I have to be flying slower than 2m/s in a straight line to get the clear image that im after. I'm then speeding things up in post.

As my daughter likes to tell me, my videos are so boring to watch becasue they are so slow, which is true pre-post.

What I need is somebody close by geographically (unlikley on an island like this one) who also has a Mini to see whether the recording performance is identical or whether it's my drone's sensor arrangement. I suspect from what Ive found, that they will be the same suggesting that the footage that Ive seen online (that shows how well the Mini compares to the bigger drones), may not be as accurate as they make it out to be.

I'll keep flying and work it out.

Thanks for the thoughts.

Cheers.

D

Dirjampa Posted at 4-20 02:53
Thanks for the input.

From my end, I fully appreciate that sticking an ND filter on the drone and flying around fast in 4k with a low frame rate is not going to fix anything. I will give them a try however to see what difference the 180 rule achieves though.

Tell me your settings, height and terrain type and I will try to record it next time I find the suitable terrain texture.

Tuxtard Posted at 4-20 03:12
Tell me your settings, height and terrain type and I will try to record it next time I find the suitable terrain texture.

Thank you very much.

So:

Viz: Clear
Cloud Cover: Light to None
Time: Mid day
Wind: Light to none
Altitude: 20M
Camera Settings(1):4K 24fps
Camera Settings(2):1080 60fps
Camera Mode: Auto
Gimbal Settings (CINE MODE):
Pitch Speed: 1
Pitch Smoothness: 30
Yaw Speed: 5
Yaw Smoothness: 100

Scenario 1: Foward flight, no intended yaw, Gimbal pitch angle 0 deg
Scenario 2: Foward flight, no intended yaw, Gimbal pitch angle 90 deg
Scenario 3: Foward flight, no intended yaw, Gimbal pitch angle 0 to 90 deg (Set to slow)
Scenario 4: Foward flight, no intended yaw, Gimbal pitch angle 90 to 0 deg (Set to slow)
Scenario 5: Foward flight, with yaw. What is the maximum rate of yaw that produces a clear picture?

Scenario 2 and 5 are the key ones, if you get the time.

Very much appreicated Tuxtard.

D

@Dirjampa  You seem to have misunderstood me or just misquoted me and I got it wrong ...
I think that an ND filter is NOT absolutely necessary because it does not fix the cause!
You also stated that you record 4K 24FPS - please try at least 30FPS or better, because there is hardly any difference in sharpness, equal to 2k7 60FPS!

ozoffi Posted at 4-20 22:10
@Dirjampa  You seem to have misunderstood me or just misquoted me and I got it wrong ...
I think that an ND filter is NOT absolutely necessary because it does not fix the cause!
You also stated that you record 4K 24FPS - please try at least 30FPS or better, because there is hardly any difference in sharpness, equal to 2k7 60FPS!

Ok I know you just don't like the use of ND's, you've made that point in multiple threads. Did you actually try ND's it on the mini2? Or do you work with proper ND's in filmproductions?

I'll stop posting on this forum on these subjects from now on because it;s the same thing over and over again: People seeing things in the footage of a super cheap consumer drone and calling it noise/jerking etc etc. It all boils down to:

- Super high sharpening of the footage (not possible to disable)
- Tiny sensor and modest processingpower
- Unable to control fstop/shutter manually
- Fast movement by the operator. Either flying fast relative to the subject or just panning and tilting like crazy

Forcing the drone to take super crisp frames with mega sharpening is just tripping the encoding. Simple as that. Just forcing some motion blur in the footage helps a lot. Nothing more, nothing less.

A higher framrate hides the problem just a little but also then it would still get even better with a control over the shutter angle (and in the case of this amateurdrone the thing you can control is ND)

There are also people who don't encounter this (or in a less), people who: Don't move rapedily (fly/pan/tilt) and use nd's. For the record, I do see the weekness in these shots still but I take into account that this is the most basic of drones by DJI and this is a hobby tool. I judge footage from an Inspire 2 differently if we hire someone to make shots for us commercially.

And some background, I use the mini 2 purely for hobby but have been working over 20 years in videoproductions and have worked with a wide range of camera's and formats. We choose our shutter depending on the impact a shot needs. High action etc a small shutter angle can be very usefull, also in higher framerates (but for commercial work we never deliver hfr so we don't want the "soap-opera effect") but 98% of the shots is still in 24p or 25p and with a 180 shutter angle (for good reasons).

It's not about not liking ND filters - I never wrote that either!
The point is that ND filters are not the panacea, as that they are displayed!
Especially that they don't fix the problem but just hide it ...
If you already "recommend" the use of ND filters, then you have to explain what they do and what they can't In other words, an ND filter does not eliminate the cause, but rather reduces the effect under certain conditions - you just have to like that ...

If you want smooth footage you need to bring down the shutter speed to 1/60 or so... the thing is that most drones don't come with a diaphragm so  you have to stick a ND filter in the front.

The problem is that ND filters are good for video and bad for photo, so if you put an ND to record video you'll have to remove it when you want to do photo.

I'm a photographer so I don't use ND's on my drone. I record all flights just in case something happens, but are just recreational. If the main purpose of your flight is videography then just use a filter to bring down that shutter speed.

PS: Also, 24-30FPS videos don't do well with high angular movement (hence the need of motion blur), just like in videogames for example. If you turn a lot in your videos just record at 60 and reproduce at 60, you'll get a much smoother experience.

ozoffi Posted at 4-20 22:10
@Dirjampa  You seem to have misunderstood me or just misquoted me and I got it wrong ...
I think that an ND filter is NOT absolutely necessary because it does not fix the cause!
You also stated that you record 4K 24FPS - please try at least 30FPS or better, because there is hardly any difference in sharpness, equal to 2k7 60FPS!

Hi Ozoffi, we are on the same page. Not sure how you thought I had misunderstood, but if you get the same screen that I get here, trying to follow a thread aint easy and it's easy to mis a stitch.

I'm still pulling together some comparisons videos. which I'll drop a link to in here when I'm done. I suspect ultimately I'll need the DJI mother ship to confirm whether I am simply expecting too much from my drone, or whether there is an issue with the sensor.

Its all good.

Cheers Ozoffi

D  

Huginn Kenningar Posted at 4-21 17:15
If you want smooth footage you need to bring down the shutter speed to 1/60 or so... the thing is that most drones don't come with a diaphragm so  you have to stick a ND filter in the front.

The problem is that ND filters are good for video and bad for photo, so if you put an ND to record video you'll have to remove it when you want to do photo.

Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated. I wont bore you with the history of this thread but my issue was that even with 60, i dont seem to be able to get a clear moving image unles im flying at less than 2ms. Im still testing.
ND filters have just turned up so will soon find out what the 180 rule does to the movnig images.

Thanks again for the feedback.

D

AlexanderK Posted at 4-20 23:35
Ok I know you just don't like the use of ND's, you've made that point in multiple threads. Did you actually try ND's it on the mini2? Or do you work with proper ND's in filmproductions?

I'll stop posting on this forum on these subjects from now on because it;s the same thing over and over again: People seeing things in the footage of a super cheap consumer drone and calling it noise/jerking etc etc. It all boils down to:

Thanks for your input, all much appreciated, although this thread has taken a life of its own now.

My need and hence my ioriginal post, was simply to determine whether the footage I see from my Mini 2 was as good as it gets from the drone.

I get that its cheap and I get that its a toy, I get that a lot, but any yaw or pitch, no matter the frame rate or the smoothness of the rate of change camera angle, I get instant blur, unwanted blur.

I see now that this was not an issue I could resolve in text, but thanks for the feedback. It's good to hear such passionate people.

Cheers

D

Dirjampa Posted at 4-26 13:29
Hi Ozoffi, we are on the same page. Not sure how you thought I had misunderstood, but if you get the same screen that I get here, trying to follow a thread aint easy and it's easy to mis a stitch.

I'm still pulling together some comparisons videos. which I'll drop a link to in here when I'm done. I suspect ultimately I'll need the DJI mother ship to confirm whether I am simply expecting too much from my drone, or whether there is an issue with the sensor.

I suspect ultimately I'll need the DJI mother ship to confirm whether I am simply expecting too much from my drone, or whether there is an issue with the sensor.

You would be expecting too much if you hope to get any accurate technical advice from the moderators here.
They aren't technical people and there's little evidence that they even fly drones.