Drohni Posted at 4-16 12:11
Well, everyone should be happy. It will just become more and more difficult for everyone to pursue the hobby if everyone thinks that you don't have to follow the rules. Ok, this is only a problem for those who want to adhere to the law. Everyone else does what they want anyway until there is a complete ban.

I think you will find a lot more people in this world break driving laws and yet we still are all allowed drive. I don’t fear or see an imminent end to flying drones for enthusiasts or professionals. Drone flying is a relatively safe pastime with a pretty good record . We should not get hysterical about this type of thing, even those who buy and use these drones 99.9% will be used respectfully and for the purpose they were designed. The sky will not fall in because of these drones and considering with the release of each new drone we see many more safety issues solved. It’s time EASA kept up with the move in drone tech.

Aperture is not variable, no C marking, got a Pro2, Mini 2, no need for an Air 2S.

Yea I  mean, even if you say, You'd buy the Air 2s now and use it for a year and then sell it again. In the EU, who are you going to sell a legacy drone to which from 2023 will not be allowed to fly virtually anywhere except completely remote locations? It's value will be diminished, so it simply is not a wise investment.
It is best to skip this and all future DJI drones until they are properly classified.
And if it isn't DJI that gets these classifications for their drones then I will buy it from another maker, end of story.

There are other options. Will see which drone maker gets the classifications first.

JBSonic Posted at 4-16 13:16
Yea I  mean, even if you say, You'd buy the Air 2s now and use it for a year and then sell it again. In the EU, who are you going to sell a legacy drone to which from 2023 will not be allowed to fly virtually anywhere except completely remote locations? It's value will be diminished, so it simply is not a wise investment.
It is best to skip this and all future DJI drones until they are properly classified.
And if it isn't DJI that gets these classifications for their drones then I will buy it from another maker, end of story.

Yes and they all said the exact same thing about Air2 but I had no problem selling mine.

hallmark007 Posted at 4-16 08:08
Do women need a new pair of shoes every time they attend a new function, “probably not” but I wouldn’t deny them the feeling they get from having and wearing their new shoes. :+)

I agree people should be positive and enjoy their stuff but also most of us have perfectly good drones that are just fine so buying this without C mark is just wasteful and bad for the environment

Also don’t see many ladies shoes that cost £1200 do you

hallmark007 Posted at 4-16 02:43
I’m not sure you can promise something unless it’s completely nailed down, but dji have posted on this platform that their mavic air2 will comply with EASA regulations and i don’t believe they will or can say anymore, but it’s certainly not in their long term interest to say such a thing if its not true.
I can also say I've just sold my mavic air 2 for a very fair price to Europes leading camera trading company, although many ridiculed others for buying it and telling them they would never get to use it or re sell it on, oh how some love to scaremonger and this will be exactly the same with this drone. If you dont want dont buy it but dont be concerned for those who will buy enjoy capture lots of great photography and sell on when and if they want. We've been going through some really tough times the C category is the least of our worries. Enjoy your time now while you still have it.

heya mate, where did you sell yours MA2 if thats not a secret?   after reviewing all pros and cons ordered MA2S from Harvey Normans and should get it delivered next week

crosswired Posted at 4-16 23:11
heya mate, where did you sell yours MA2 if thats not a secret?   after reviewing all pros and cons ordered MA2S from Harvey Normans and should get it delivered next week

Mpb photography, i sell all my photography gear to them, they used to be based in Uk now Germany , you get instant quote they send dhl to the house they pay shipping and once they examine your product or products they pay .
Mpb.com

Bigplumbs Posted at 4-16 22:19
I agree people should be positive and enjoy their stuff but also most of us have perfectly good drones that are just fine so buying this without C mark is just wasteful and bad for the environment

Also don’t see many ladies shoes that cost £1200 do you

Then you are lucky, i have two daughters who wouldn’t think twice paying that for a pair of shoes ;+) , but its there money not my thing, I’d keep looking at them to see what size camera they have on them and how far they could fly ;+)..
There will be a time we realize how selfish we might have been, that time should be reserved for giving something back to the world and I believe that time may indeed give us even more satisfaction.

hallmark007 Posted at 4-17 01:01
Mpb photography, i sell all my photography gear to them, they used to be based in Uk now Germany , you get instant quote they send dhl to the house they pay shipping and once they examine your product or products they pay .
Mpb.com

thanks mate, got a quote. is that for drone only mean drone, one battery and remote?

crosswired Posted at 4-17 02:08
thanks mate, got a quote. is that for drone only mean drone, one battery and remote?

I sold mine as combo, so everything included with combo will be expected, so same wit standard, just make sure to include everything that came with your drone IE loads battery etc.

hallmark007 Posted at 4-16 13:27
Yes and they all said the exact same thing about Air2 but I had no problem selling mine.

But you just sold that now, So right now it wouldn't be a problem to sell it at  a decent value. I am talking a year from now when the new legacy restrictions  are looming.
I said you will struggle to sell the 2s, not the original Air 2.
Once the Air 2s is about to become a legacy drone that you cannot legally fly virtually anywhere, who is going to buy that drone? Very few people would be interested. Especially, at that point there will probably be new drones on the market with the C classifications. So someone looking to buy a drone, which one do you think they will get? The new Mavic/portable drone that you can fly in your local park, over people, over houses and almost anywhere you want or a drone that forbids  you to do all of that?
It is an obvious answer.

JBSonic Posted at 4-17 04:38
But you just sold that now, So right now it wouldn't be a problem to sell it at  a decent value. I am talking a year from now when the new legacy restrictions  are looming.
I said you will struggle to sell the 2s, not the original Air 2.
Once the Air 2s is about to become a legacy drone that you cannot legally fly virtually anywhere, who is going to buy that drone? Very few people would be interested. Especially, at that point there will probably be new drones on the market with the C classifications. So someone looking to buy a drone, which one do you think they will get? The new Mavic/portable drone that you can fly in your local park, over people, over houses and almost anywhere you want or a drone that forbids  you to do all of that?

You dont understand, in a years time how much will my air2s be worth and will it be possible to retroactively bring it up to spec for EASA, dji say they have closely worked with EASA and on their blurb on website they confirm that it will be possible. So 12 months ago I had to listen to exactly the sam thing but it never came to fruition and buying and selling and using air2 was no problem whatsoever.

It seem’s the solution coming from some users here is don’t buy a new drone of any kind until EASA cross their T’s and dot their I’s, well if the truth was known back in 2017 EASA said new rules would come into force 2018/2019, we are now in 2021 and expecting change to come in 2023, so if we are to take EASA literally then we would not have bought a drone since 2016.
Having followed this now for over 5 years and being a part of a delegation from Ireland helping and proposing possible new rule changes, it has always been clear that EASA are very much on the side of drone users enthusiasts and professionals and hav also said when the time comes that flexibility will almost certainly be needed.

So what I’m saying is simple, i don’t believe drone users or manufacturers will be penalized in anyway because EASA didn’t or couldn’t get their act together. EASA are in the business of safety for all flying aircraft in Europe and drone business is potentially huge for them so it stands to reason from both what they say and what the manufacturers are saying that upsetting drone users will be bad business for all interests. I “think” you will find that the drones if up to regulations for safe flying in safe category will not be cast to some drone hell as others would like to see or to scaremonger. Some common sense should be applied here, this is not a case of big brother bringing new stringent rules to stop others flying. If you have followed the progress of EASA through this new rule process you would know that drone users where always first for their  consideration after the need for safety for all.

It would be crazy for anyone to believe that these actions are going to be somehow archaic to drone users and somehow designed to disenfranchise them. These rules were designed to include and open up the safety compliance of flying drones under one set of rules throughout Europe, something we should not lose sight of.

JBSonic Posted at 4-17 04:38
But you just sold that now, So right now it wouldn't be a problem to sell it at  a decent value. I am talking a year from now when the new legacy restrictions  are looming.
I said you will struggle to sell the 2s, not the original Air 2.
Once the Air 2s is about to become a legacy drone that you cannot legally fly virtually anywhere, who is going to buy that drone? Very few people would be interested. Especially, at that point there will probably be new drones on the market with the C classifications. So someone looking to buy a drone, which one do you think they will get? The new Mavic/portable drone that you can fly in your local park, over people, over houses and almost anywhere you want or a drone that forbids  you to do all of that?

theres no drone which you can fly over the people unless youve got official certifications

hallmark007 Posted at 4-17 05:10
You dont understand, in a years time how much will my air2s be worth and will it be possible to retroactively bring it up to spec for EASA, dji say they have closely worked with EASA and on their blurb on website they confirm that it will be possible. So 12 months ago I had to listen to exactly the sam thing but it never came to fruition and buying and selling and using air2 was no problem whatsoever.

It seem’s the solution coming from some users here is don’t buy a new drone of any kind until EASA cross their T’s and dot their I’s, well if the truth was known back in 2017 EASA said new rules would come into force 2018/2019, we are now in 2021 and expecting change to come in 2023, so if we are to take EASA literally then we would not have bought a drone since 2016.

First of all: a retrospective classification is (currently) legally excluded. Statements to the contrary, no matter by whom, are false and contradict currently valid EU law, not only in Germany. It can be doubted that there will be a change in the law, as the question arises as to why this has not already been included in the regulation.

On the point of hysteria, which was denounced here in the forum. At least according to my insurance contract, the insurance only pays in the event of an accident if I have flown within the applicable laws. It may be different in other countries, stupid for me, but that scares me off.

Drohni Posted at 4-17 08:37
First of all: a retrospective classification is (currently) legally excluded. Statements to the contrary, no matter by whom, are false and contradict currently valid EU law, not only in Germany. It can be doubted that there will be a change in the law, as the question arises as to why this has not already been included in the regulation.

Again what you’re quoting is the law , but you have no idea If drones will or not be retrofitted or brought up to standard by FW. But one thing is clear you expect that know one should buy any drone for flying professionally of as hobbyists and that is just not right, if people listened to that last year they would have missed out on a full year of enjoying for instance the AIR2, so why should users adhere to rules that were supposed to start 2017/2018 then 2021 and now 2023, you’re perfectly entitled to wait until EASA tells you that you can buy your drone, others want to enjoy now and so they should. Maybe you might post some examples where the drone police are ripping drones from people or they are being fined or arrested or being put off the streets for flying their perfectly safe drones.

We have seen none of above and its my belief that until everything is sorted and drone users are not penalized then we will see change for the better. I thin k the saying is “Live and let Live”

hallmark007 Posted at 4-17 09:01
Again what you’re quoting is the law , but you have no idea If drones will or not be retrofitted or brought up to standard by FW. But one thing is clear you expect that know one should buy any drone for flying professionally of as hobbyists and that is just not right, if people listened to that last year they would have missed out on a full year of enjoying for instance the AIR2, so why should users adhere to rules that were supposed to start 2017/2018 then 2021 and now 2023, you’re perfectly entitled to wait until EASA tells you that you can buy your drone, others want to enjoy now and so they should. Maybe you might post some examples where the drone police are ripping drones from people or they are being fined or arrested or being put off the streets for flying their perfectly safe drones.

We have seen none of above and its my belief that until everything is sorted and drone users are not penalized then we will see change for the better. I thin k the saying is “Live and let Live”

To be honest, I don't know what to say about it anymore. Obviously we are writing past each other. I am only trying to point out the currently valid law and the restrictions to which one is also or better, especially as a hobby pilot, subject. These have been in effect for unclassified drones since January 1st, 2021. But what is it, let's agree, you do what you think is right and I do what I think is right.

Drohni Posted at 4-17 09:15
To be honest, I don't know what to say about it anymore. Obviously we are writing past each other. I am only trying to point out the currently valid law and the restrictions to which one is also or better, especially as a hobby pilot, subject. These have been in effect for unclassified drones since January 1st, 2021. But what is it, let's agree, you do what you think is right and I do what I think is right.

Exactly, but dont feel the need to stop others enjoying themselves.

Hallmark you can do what ever  you want, I fly big drones and have PFCO so I might be more qualified than you to talk about what is legal or not.
Fact is, currently any unmarked drones will fly in the legacy category or A3, which means no flight within 150m horizontally of residential, industrial, commercial or recreational areas. No uninvolved people presents within area of the flight. This basically means you can only fly such a drone in the middle of nowhere, big open field, that's  it.

But if a  drone has the C2 classification, then you can fly in all those  areas mentioned above, plus up to 30m horizontally to uninvolved people or up to 5m when set to "low speed mode".

A Mavic Pro 2 would fall into the C2 classification due to its size, but EASA has stated that drones cannot be retro-classified and as such are automatically considered "legacy drones" come 2023.

JBSonic Posted at 4-17 09:38
Hallmark you can do what ever  you want, I fly big drones and have PFCO so I might be more qualified than you to talk about what is legal or not.
Fact is, currently any unmarked drones will fly in the legacy category or A3, which means no flight within 150m horizontally of residential, industrial, commercial or recreational areas. No uninvolved people presents within area of the flight. This basically means you can only fly such a drone in the middle of nowhere, big open field, that's  it.

Well I fly a Matrice 600 on a weekly basis for a Company surveying wind turbines on and offshore both in Rep of Ireland and North of Ireland,  I have been licensed for the last 5 years, I also fly many drones as a hobbyist and am involved with UAAI here in Ireland who worked with EASA over the past 5 years compiling rules and regs, I’m well aware of the situation, it was in no way designed to stop or curb any professional or hobbyists users and I believe when changes were supposed to come and were delayed because of Covid 19 lots of things changed and changes are still coming, I would hold on to your hat for now, but I don’t believe you will see a single user hauled up for using an Air2 Mavic 2P or an Air2s. So I think people should not worry just yet, there will be more to come, and in time this will be sorted for all and from what I know no one is likely to be penalized. I remember exactly the same thing 12 months ago more scaremongering yet how many have been hauled up flying illegal drones.
If you are flying dangerously or in breech of your countries rules then you get what you deserve.

hallmark007 Posted at 4-17 10:21
Well I fly a Matrice 600 on a weekly basis for a Company surveying wind turbines on and offshore both in Rep of Ireland and North of Ireland,  I have been licensed for the last 5 years, I also fly many drones as a hobbyist and am involved with UAAI here in Ireland who worked with EASA over the past 5 years compiling rules and regs, I’m well aware of the situation, it was in no way designed to stop or curb any professional or hobbyists users and I believe when changes were supposed to come and were delayed because of Covid 19 lots of things changed and changes are still coming, I would hold on to your hat for now, but I don’t believe you will see a single user hauled up for using an Air2 Mavic 2P or an Air2s. So I think people should not worry just yet, there will be more to come, and in time this will be sorted for all and from what I know no one is likely to be penalized. I remember exactly the same thing 12 months ago more scaremongering yet how many have been hauled up flying illegal drones.
If you are flying dangerously or in breech of your countries rules then you get what you deserve.

Hi hallmark
Nobody on here seems to talking about CAA article 16 within the UK, which if I understand it correctly seems like a great way for recreational flyers to continue flying more or less as before 1st January.
I would be appreciate  for you input.

The picture didn't work as I'd hoped sorry

UKMoose Posted at 4-17 11:33
Hi hallmark
Nobody on here seems to talking about CAA article 16 within the UK, which if I understand it correctly seems like a great way for recreational flyers to continue flying more or less as before 1st January.
I would be appreciate  for you input.

While I’m aware of article 16 .In Ireland things are very similar for now and rules have not changed a lot contrary to what most people think, there are strict rules concerning flying close to property and people, but these rules were always there, some new rules provided you are certified allow you to fly closer to property and people and closer still once they are under your control IE you have specific operations planning and risk assessments in place. People should first look local to their country, don’t be afraid to talk to the Law, one thing you will find its the sheer lack of knowledge the law actually has and how they are somewhat clueless about new rules etc. signs for not allowing drones to fly in certain areas are as much for law enforcement as they are for drone pilots. This whole thing is a huge learning curve for us all and I include authorities in that. Flying within your country’s rules with safe craft will not get you into any trouble, I’m afraid the law are a lot greener than drone pilots regarding the rules.

Article 16 is available for all to read and is quite extensive , but although common sense doesn’t seem very common these days it will get you a long way down the road. Fly safe.

crosswired Posted at 4-17 06:32
theres no drone which you can fly over the people unless youve got official certifications

Currently, Mini 1 and Mini 2 can fly in A1 over uninvolved people (but not crowds) without any certificate, you just need to register as an operator.

In the future any C0/C1 drone will be able to fly over people. Air 2S and Air 2 are manufactured to be C1 class, but as EASA isn't giving any certificate yet, so both of them fly in A2 (50 meters from people) till 2023 and then, if nothing changes, will fly in A3 (150 meters from people).

And coming back to the topic, as long as you stay out of controlled airspace no one will go with a meter to measure if you where flying at 50 meters from people or at 49... and if we get out of airspace some day, it will be just to sell the 0-120m airspace to Amazon, DHL, UPS, Fedex, etc.

All the open category rules can be resumed as:

• Stay away from controlled airspace.
• Stay under 120m from the ground.
• Stay away from uninvolved people.
  

As long as you follow that you'll be fine... and remember to have all the paperwork up to date (pilot certifications, operatior number, insurance, etc).

hallmark007 Posted at 4-17 12:04
While I’m aware of article 16 .In Ireland things are very similar for now and rules have not changed a lot contrary to what most people think, there are strict rules concerning flying close to property and people, but these rules were always there, some new rules provided you are certified allow you to fly closer to property and people and closer still once they are under your control IE you have specific operations planning and risk assessments in place. People should first look local to their country, don’t be afraid to talk to the Law, one thing you will find its the sheer lack of knowledge the law actually has and how they are somewhat clueless about new rules etc. signs for not allowing drones to fly in certain areas are as much for law enforcement as they are for drone pilots. This whole thing is a huge learning curve for us all and I include authorities in that. Flying within your country’s rules with safe craft will not get you into any trouble, I’m afraid the law are a lot greener than drone pilots regarding the rules.

Article 16 is available for all to read and is quite extensive , but although common sense doesn’t seem very common these days it will get you a long way down the road. Fly safe.

Thanks for your reply, I have always flown in what  I perceive to be a safe and considerate way.
As you say I doubt the police will have much idea of the rules. I will continue to fly article 16. I'm also lucky to be from a farming family so I've always plenty of space to fly.
Keep safe Mark

As the OP I am seeing a lot for argument about the rules. This is fine. I think my main point is that those on this forum probably have several DJI drones that surely with the speed that DJI are bringing them out we should just stick to the drones we have and wait till they bring out one with the C marking. If you don’t already have a DJI drone then go for a mini 2 which will do most if not all you will want and will be far more ‘legal’ in the future...............Just be patient and wait a while

It will be possible from EASA for DJI to get a C label for older drones, but DJI must want to do it.
I think DJI will do it and in that hope I bought the Air2S, because it will be my first drone and I waitet already sice a year... I don‘t want to wait longer time anymore and I think this latest drone will have the greatest chance to get a C label.

Drohni Posted at 4-17 08:58
On the point of hysteria, which was denounced here in the forum. At least according to my insurance contract, the insurance only pays in the event of an accident if I have flown within the applicable laws. It may be different in other countries, stupid for me, but that scares me off.

thats weird, my insurance doesnt say anything like that just mention typical drone code (which I presume its the same in all EU countries) without any word about drones class

Huginn Kenningar Posted at 4-17 12:21
Currently, Mini 1 and Mini 2 can fly in A1 over uninvolved people (but not crowds) without any certificate, you just need to register as an operator.

In the future any C0/C1 drone will be able to fly over people. Air 2S and Air 2 are manufactured to be C1 class, but as EASA isn't giving any certificate yet, so both of them fly in A2 (50 meters from people) till 2023 and then, if nothing changes, will fly in A3 (150 meters from people).

by people meant crowds of course ...
about mini / mini2 it weight less than 250g without props guards on

PilotJan Posted at 4-18 01:05
[view_image]

Yes but when you say this out loud too many in disbelief at the sheer amount of common sense applied and common sense was indeed a big factor in discussions regarding drones over the last 5 years.

Drohni Posted at 4-17 08:37
First of all: a retrospective classification is (currently) legally excluded. Statements to the contrary, no matter by whom, are false and contradict currently valid EU law, not only in Germany. It can be doubted that there will be a change in the law, as the question arises as to why this has not already been included in the regulation.

I think you should look at FAQ by EASA below, it shows clearly that drones will be considered retrospective, I think its important common sense is applied here and hysteria kept to a minimum. This is about flying drones mostly for pleasure with no intentions by users to break laws put others in danger or fly illegally. The vast majority will insure that this hobby and profession will continue and benefit all involved. Its really that simple...

PilotJan Posted at 4-18 01:05
[view_image]

Thank you very much, finally a really reliable statement from an official body and not just wishful thinking from some here. To be honest, I don't know how this statement can be reconciled with the wording of the underlying regulation, but an authority like EASA should know. Let's see when that comes to fruition and how the process can be implemented.

hallmark007 Posted at 4-18 04:56
I think you should look at FAQ by EASA below, it shows clearly that drones will be considered retrospective, I think its important common sense is applied here and hysteria kept to a minimum. This is about flying drones mostly for pleasure with no intentions by users to break laws put others in danger or fly illegally. The vast majority will insure that this hobby and profession will continue and benefit all involved. Its really that simple...

Didn't you know that Germans are not easy. Geman Angst and so ...

Drohni Posted at 4-18 05:22
Didn't you know that Germans are not easy. Geman Angst and so ...

I don’t need easy. I have plenty of German friends, “Tough but Fair” would be how I describe them.

I already baught it assuming it had the EU CE Mark. I ve still to get around to registering as a drone flyer with tie IAA but ill do that today see if i need a CE mark for that.

djiuser_03kPH6QFfeTe Posted at 4-18 05:41
I already baught it assuming it had the EU CE Mark. I ve still to get around to registering as a drone flyer with tie IAA but ill do that today see if i need a CE mark for that.

You won’t to register your drone.

djiuser_03kPH6QFfeTe Posted at 4-18 05:41
I already baught it assuming it had the EU CE Mark. I ve still to get around to registering as a drone flyer with tie IAA but ill do that today see if i need a CE mark for that.

Please remember the difference between a CE and a C mark

I believe for most its the probable C1 of the Air2 & 2s that gets people worked up, when the badge is there it could fly A1, under current regs its A2 & requires A2CofC then goes A3. Whilst refit may allow classification it's the lack of progress reporting against this option causing angst & there feels to be some underhand sales tactics from DJI & whilst that might be misfounded a clear unambiguous statement would go a long way; are we 6 months away, a year or waiting for 01/01/2023 before a class badge is applied.  As far as I'm aware apart from enterprise aircraft & one comment made about the Air2 nothing more has been offered & the latter offered no timeline or detail of change process.

BaynhamPhoto Posted at 4-18 10:39
I believe for most its the probable C1 of the Air2 & 2s that gets people worked up, when the badge is there it could fly A1, under current regs its A2 & requires A2CofC then goes A3. Whilst refit may allow classification it's the lack of progress reporting against this option causing angst & there feels to be some underhand sales tactics from DJI & whilst that might be misfounded a clear unambiguous statement would go a long way; are we 6 months away, a year or waiting for 01/01/2023 before a class badge is applied.  As far as I'm aware apart from enterprise aircraft & one comment made about the Air2 nothing more has been offered & the latter offered no timeline or detail of change process.

Not sure how clear and unambiguous you need it. But your conspiracy is just wrong.

https://enterprise-insights.dji. ... u-drone-regulations
Also post 68 Message FAQ from EASA...

hallmark007 Posted at 4-18 10:44
Not sure how clear and unambiguous you need it. But your conspiracy is just wrong.

https://enterprise-insights.dji. ... u-drone-regulations

Conspiracy theory?, observation perhaps but read as you will. Unambiguous means exactly that nothing states what change is needed to make the Air2 compliant or when so why bother making the statement without supporting facts. I have seen nothing to just suggest anything but refit by manufacturer will be acceptable not simply firmware by user classification the CAA has not even confirmed that to date.  Whilst you may have commercial background and prior engagement in regulation not even you can share exactly what the next changes are perhaps if you could conspiracy & what I consider valid concerns for those who make a long term non commercial investment could be rendered unfounded.  Whilst I agree with a lot of your posts about regs & flying within them you do appear to go looking to antagonise at times even if I doubt it is meant as such.  I have pointed direct questions to DJI via this forum with absolutely nothing being offered in return.