BaynhamPhoto Posted at 4-18 11:30
Conspiracy theory?, observation perhaps but read as you will. Unambiguous means exactly that nothing states what change is needed to make the Air2 compliant or when so why bother making the statement without supporting facts. I have seen nothing to just suggest anything but refit by manufacturer will be acceptable not simply firmware by user classification the CAA has not even confirmed that to date.  Whilst you may have commercial background and prior engagement in regulation not even you can share exactly what the next changes are perhaps if you could conspiracy & what I consider valid concerns for those who make a long term non commercial investment could be rendered unfounded.  Whilst I agree with a lot of your posts about regs & flying within them you do appear to go looking to antagonise at times even if I doubt it is meant as such.  I have pointed direct questions to DJI via this forum with absolutely nothing being offered in return.

I think you need to relax, you obviously bought an air2 so it doesn’t seem it was that great of a problem, the position is EASA have not fully finalized yet so I’m sure and from my experience or what I know ,  discussions will be finalized when the powers that be decide to finalize them, but retrospectively fitting by FW or SW will be included in those final plans, it would seem ridiculous for dji to have to wait 3 years for EASA to sign off before the sell any more drones in Europe. From the beginning of discussions 5 years ago discontinuing or putting older drones out to grass was always high on the list for new changes, and its almost certain dji have been manufacturing their drones to the max spec that EASA requires, so yes hardware may be needed or FW , but there is now provision for this. Some 12 months ago people were losing their sh*t about this, now that was unfounded and the sky never fell in. 100% its not in djis or EASA’s interest to upset drone users they both have one thing in common we are there customers and yes I mean customers.
For those who won’t be convinced then its simple “wait” and for others wish them safe flying.

You know other people who have spent much time on this forum trying to help put themselves up for constant abuse, target for all some come to mind Geebax Labroids etc , you get one thing wrong and your constantly ridiculed, you learn to be thick skinned and discuss the drones not the people or their personality’s .

If you’re expecting any private information from dji its not coming and the information and help around here comes from the members, so I don’t and you shouldn’t waste your time on them.

hallmark007 Posted at 4-18 12:01
I think you need to relax, you obviously bought an air2 so it doesn’t seem it was that great of a problem, the position is EASA have not fully finalized yet so I’m sure and from my experience or what I know ,  discussions will be finalized when the powers that be decide to finalize them, but retrospectively fitting by FW or SW will be included in those final plans, it would seem ridiculous for dji to have to wait 3 years for EASA to sign off before the sell any more drones in Europe. From the beginning of discussions 5 years ago discontinuing or putting older drones out to grass was always high on the list for new changes, and its almost certain dji have been manufacturing their drones to the max spec that EASA requires, so yes hardware may be needed or FW , but there is now provision for this. Some 12 months ago people were losing their sh*t about this, now that was unfounded and the sky never fell in. 100% its not in djis or EASA’s interest to upset drone users they both have one thing in common we are there customers and yes I mean customers.
For those who won’t be convinced then its simple “wait” and for others wish them safe flying.

If I relax any further I'd be asleep under the desk, a very well constructed response Hallmark. There is no dispute its a personal choice to wait or fly but   for some looking to the latter circa €1200+ isnt chump change so I appreciate their concern about when such markings make an appearance or longevity of the purchase.  My choice is fly what I have until class badging appears but im in the fortunate position of having multiple aircraft, now if the mythical pro3 appeared would I jump to the buy it now button...

BaynhamPhoto Posted at 4-18 12:23
If I relax any further I'd be asleep under the desk, a very well constructed response Hallmark. There is no dispute its a personal choice to wait or fly but   for some looking to the latter circa €1200+ isnt chump change so I appreciate their concern about when such markings make an appearance or longevity of the purchase.  My choice is fly what I have until class badging appears but im in the fortunate position of having multiple aircraft, now if the mythical pro3 appeared would I jump to the buy it now button...

You’d buy it without the marking , maybe its not the marking thats the problem. But I think by the time all gets sorted there wont be any problems with Markings.

BaynhamPhoto Posted at 4-18 12:23
If I relax any further I'd be asleep under the desk, a very well constructed response Hallmark. There is no dispute its a personal choice to wait or fly but   for some looking to the latter circa €1200+ isnt chump change so I appreciate their concern about when such markings make an appearance or longevity of the purchase.  My choice is fly what I have until class badging appears but im in the fortunate position of having multiple aircraft, now if the mythical pro3 appeared would I jump to the buy it now button...

Very well Said. You need to learn one thing however You will never get the last word with old HallmarkJamesbond. Also no matter how correct you are he will never agree.

As the OP of this thread the results of the Survey speak for themselves. People are saying wait for a C marked drone.

Wait a little bit of time and Old 007 will have an issue with this

This should have been addressed and resolved in January. As any company who still wishes to sell drones and quadcopters in the UK, needs to start printing the classification or having it labelled on the craft. After the grace period is over, how many will still want to fly when it's in reality classed as illegal or having to fly in the middle of nowhere. I did my course so I'm happy with being able to fly my Mini 2 anywhere I like within reason. It's given me some good results so far. It still shows how little the UK government and the CAA know about drones and quadcopters. Anyone who flies on a regular basis knows that even if it's under 250g, it can still rip your face or fingers off if it flies into someone. The fact that they deem it to be no threat to persons or property is hilarious.

Drohni Posted at 4-16 12:11
Well, everyone should be happy. It will just become more and more difficult for everyone to pursue the hobby if everyone thinks that you don't have to follow the rules. Ok, this is only a problem for those who want to adhere to the law. Everyone else does what they want anyway until there is a complete ban.

The amount of people who don't care is bordering on the ridiculous. There's posts all the time about completing the A2 CofC course and why should they. There's posts about not having to register as a pilot with the CAA and get your flying and operator ID's. Idiots who will end up spoiling the hobby for the majority. I did mine on a special offer and in my view is worth every penny. I carry my ID card with me everywhere I fly, just in case Karen comes spouting off about the rules they know nothing about. The public  can be so narrow minded when they see a drone or quadcopter. I fly DJI and freestyle FPV and a lot of the time I get questions off the public. I just do my best to educate them. Here's hoping the rules don't get any worse for the future of the hobby.

CoreyB10 Posted at 4-19 04:04
The amount of people who don't care is bordering on the ridiculous. There's posts all the time about completing the A2 CofC course and why should they. There's posts about not having to register as a pilot with the CAA and get your flying and operator ID's. Idiots who will end up spoiling the hobby for the majority. I did mine on a special offer and in my view is worth every penny. I carry my ID card with me everywhere I fly, just in case Karen comes spouting off about the rules they know nothing about. The public  can be so narrow minded when they see a drone or quadcopter. I fly DJI and freestyle FPV and a lot of the time I get questions off the public. I just do my best to educate them. Here's hoping the rules don't get any worse for the future of the hobby.

not registering is just stupidity .. and believe me, living in Republic have done CAA online course just in case I'll go up the North and decide to fly

btw, originally I've voted 'no buy' but actually getting my MA2S delivered tomorrow ..as life is too short to deny myself some fun and believe that DJI will sort C class labels on MA2S when possible as drone itself is one of best equipped and safest one on the market

crosswired Posted at 4-19 10:43
not registering is just stupidity .. and believe me, living in Republic have done CAA online course just in case I'll go up the North and decide to fly

btw, originally I've voted 'no buy' but actually getting my MA2S delivered tomorrow ..as life is too short to deny myself some fun and believe that DJI will sort C class labels on MA2S when possible as drone itself is one of best equipped and safest one on the market

With you there man. I love flying too much to not at least try and keep legal and do what's required. I fly almost everyday. It's the best escape ever for me.

And what will you use this Vote for? Entertainment, or what's the purpose?  

ebea Posted at 4-21 03:05
And what will you use this Vote for? Entertainment, or what's the purpose?

I would like this vote to prompt some form of a statement from DJI, even their intent with regards to retrospective classification if it's possible for them to do.

Facts are what they are.. the law is in place and we are in a transition period. So until EASA or the CAA announce differently the transition period ends 2022.. so surely DJI can at least give some view on their approach?

They are on a winner anyway as i just bought a Mini 2.. now if they were to announce plans for Air 2s classification I would proably buy one of those too - kaaa ching

Bill Adama Posted at 4-21 03:39
I would like this vote to prompt some form of a statement from DJI, even their intent with regards to retrospective classification if it's possible for them to do.

Facts are what they are.. the law is in place and we are in a transition period. So until EASA or the CAA announce differently the transition period ends 2022.. so surely DJI can at least give some view on their approach?

Why do you answer? I did ask the OP (who made the vote).

Bill Adama Posted at 4-21 03:39
I would like this vote to prompt some form of a statement from DJI, even their intent with regards to retrospective classification if it's possible for them to do.

Facts are what they are.. the law is in place and we are in a transition period. So until EASA or the CAA announce differently the transition period ends 2022.. so surely DJI can at least give some view on their approach?

All this information is available on this thread, Dji have confirmed that through discussions with EASA retro upgrading will be available, and in post 68 you will see EASA have announced that they will allow retro upgrading for some drones.
Now you might like to draw this out and believe that threads like this make any difference. But they don’t, these threads are nothing more than a fun exercise. For instance you will find that many who say they’re not going to upgrade will be the first to post and likely were never going to buy anyways, so everything gets skewed. You will also see that over a thousand people viewed this thread, should we take it that because they didn’t vote they are more likely to buy or not again making a nonsense of these threads. Don’t get me wrong some of these polls might help particularly when the majority of those who visit the thread make it known their views on the topic.

Agree fully with what you said. I also checked your post #68 but cannot find any external confirmation. Currently I am looking for proof about the following statements I read in this thread. Any input would be appreciated.

• EASA will allow retrofit
• The retrofit will be firmware only or requires to send the drone to DJI (sticker with new Serial Number)
• EASA does not have the certification sticker ready yet, it is their fault.
• DJI has agreed to retrofit the CE classification. All I read is: it might be possible. But no confirmation it will be possible for the following drones.
• I thought drones without a classification cannot be sold from 1st Jan 2021 onwards any longer. Obviously wrong.
• A few years back a Mavic version was compatible with the Goggles already. Did not hear much about that - what happened???
  

I voted with No, will not buy and will stick to it. The Air 2s with the large camera is very tempting but in two years from now it will be essentially a paperweight. A new drone will come out and nobody will buy a used drone that cannot be used. Flying the Mini2 and Inspire 1 meanwhile and just sold the Air1 for 60% of its list price.

Frankly, even if DJI would promise a retrofit and V2 goggle support I would wait until it is available. Seen too many promises broken. Much less without any clear statement.

ebea Posted at 4-21 03:05
And what will you use this Vote for? Entertainment, or what's the purpose?

It was just out of interest and to gauge opinion and so DJI see the results which seem  to be heavily on th No side

Bigplumbs Posted at 4-21 22:23
It was just out of interest and to gauge opinion and so DJI see the results which seem  to be heavily on th No side

The reason why I ask, is that no matter what the result will show, it has absolutely no influence on what DJI do of certifications on their Drones.
I'm pretty sure, that DJI knows exactly what they are doing, when it comes to which regulations are in each market where they are represented. And that there are no certifications on the new Air 2S, I'm also sure they have a specific reason for that.

WernerD Posted at 4-21 22:04
Agree fully with what you said. I also checked your post #68 but cannot find any external confirmation. Currently I am looking for proof about the following statements I read in this thread. Any input would be appreciated.

EASA will allow retrofit

You know only answer I can give you is Check The dji website their promise is on there. Same with EASA , its staring everybody in the face that arrangements to retrofit have already been partially if not fully agreed. Its not dji thats holding up certification, they’re only guilt of putting their latest drone on the market and would be foolish not too.

Some 12 months ago and you can go back through the history of this forum, you will read exactly the same rhetoric from many Naysayers “if you buy an Air2 in 12 months it will be worth nothing” if you but an Air2 you will not be able to fly in open category in 12 months you will be banished to a field somewhere. Most ridiculous one you won’t be able to fly close to people or others properties, yet we know this is not possible with any drone without pilot certification.
But 12 months on I have sold my Air2 for a very fair price and it cost little to upgrade to Air2s.
When you look at things logically why should dji have to wait for authorities to get their act together, remember discussions and talks going on now for 5 years, and in that time EASA have been consistent in letting drone enthusiasts and hobbyists that they would not be penalized when new rules and regulations come fully into force, and I fully expect them to stand by this. But time will tell and I think this is about trusting those interested in drone users to do the right thing to support those who are basically their customers .

hallmark007 Posted at 4-22 03:07
You know only answer I can give you is Check The dji website their promise is on there. Same with EASA , its staring everybody in the face that arrangements to retrofit have already been partially if not fully agreed. Its not dji thats holding up certification, they’re only guilt of putting their latest drone on the market and would be foolish not too.

Some 12 months ago and you can go back through the history of this forum, you will read exactly the same rhetoric from many Naysayers “if you buy an Air2 in 12 months it will be worth nothing” if you but an Air2 you will not be able to fly in open category in 12 months you will be banished to a field somewhere. Most ridiculous one you won’t be able to fly close to people or others properties, yet we know this is not possible with any drone without pilot certification.

'Rhetoric'

12 months ago I wanted to buy an air 2, didn't because of the new laws.. the air 2s coming out without certification is for me disappointing based on what we know officially in terms of EASA / CAA statements and the current transition period.

It doesn't matter in the grand scale of things and for now the mini 2 is the sensible option until everything pans out. Just would have been nice if DJI could have clarified somewhat their intent / possible options with regards to the Air2s and C classification (or not) being retrospectively applied for down the line.

We all have to go on our own judgement on this and as an NPPL licence holder and BMFA member over the last 10 years, my view is that it's not a good idea to aspire to anything that's not officially written in law. Right now that's the new regulations + transition period... so therefore in 18 months or so the air 2s can only be flown >150 metres from any building and not in the vicinity of any uninvolved persons.. that for me makes it impossible to buy at the moment (despite having one in the amazon basket and having to fight the urge to buy it everyday!).

Bill Adama Posted at 4-23 05:32
'Rhetoric'  

12 months ago I wanted to buy an air 2, didn't because of the new laws.. the air 2s coming out without certification is for me disappointing based on what we know officially in terms of EASA / CAA statements and the current transition period.

Both dji and EASA did mention retro fitting for these drones, and thats what most were looking for.

Bill Adama Posted at 4-23 05:32
'Rhetoric'  

12 months ago I wanted to buy an air 2, didn't because of the new laws.. the air 2s coming out without certification is for me disappointing based on what we know officially in terms of EASA / CAA statements and the current transition period.

From a commercial point of view, your insurance is going to be invalid if operating a drone that isnt certified in the category of the flight.
So unless it does happen, in 18 months time an Air2S isnt fit for commercial work.

The argument "you're unlikely to get caught" simply wont wash commercially.

How much is commercial drone insurance

Depends on if you want extra cover over the base, a pay per flight or an annual policy and many other things.

Looking for some more information here, I can see that EASA are now going to allow manufacturers to retroactively have drones classified which is good news, so long as DJI go through with it.

Has there been any information from CAA in the UK regarding this? Last I heard they were saying no retro-classifying but I am hoping their stance will, or has changed on this.

I also don't know how brexit comes into play here and if anything changes because of that, would be great if anyone could inform me?

For what its worth, I picked up a Air 2S and I am loving it, I had the original Air a while ago, picked up a Mini 2(primarily to have freedom flying in most places) and now own the Air 2S.

Cruelsco Posted at 4-25 04:18
Looking for some more information here, I can see that EASA are now going to allow manufacturers to retroactively have drones classified which is good news, so long as DJI go through with it.

Has there been any information from CAA in the UK regarding this? Last I heard they were saying no retro-classifying but I am hoping their stance will, or has changed on this.

The CAA have agreed with EASA to fall under their rules of safety for all aircraft and this includes drones, each country may use some localise rules pertaining to their country , but I know for instance here in Ireland we have adopted almost all EASA rules with exception of some local rules. The craft we fly will be passed by EASA . But just like anything else we have changed over time ie older cars timeframes were put on them and timeframes were sometimes changed. But it is a fact that users of any kind of transport put out to grass were always heavily considered and the importance of those losing out was paramount .
I see some saying you could be in bother with insurance companies, these people acting as actuary’s haven’t a clue. Insurance companies can be flexible and negotiable. If you are flying any craft that you’re unsure of approach them and make them aware of the situation. Too many naysayers and funnily enough the same people appeared 12 months ago trying to scaremonger.

hallmark007 Posted at 4-25 06:17
The CAA have agreed with EASA to fall under their rules of safety for all aircraft and this includes drones, each country may use some localise rules pertaining to their country , but I know for instance here in Ireland we have adopted almost all EASA rules with exception of some local rules. The craft we fly will be passed by EASA . But just like anything else we have changed over time ie older cars timeframes were put on them and timeframes were sometimes changed. But it is a fact that users of any kind of transport put out to grass were always heavily considered and the importance of those losing out was paramount .
I see some saying you could be in bother with insurance companies, these people acting as actuary’s haven’t a clue. Insurance companies can be flexible and negotiable. If you are flying any craft that you’re unsure of approach them and make them aware of the situation. Too many naysayers and funnily enough the same people appeared 12 months ago trying to scaremonger.

Thanks for the response!

Hopefully DJI retro-certify the legacy drones and it would just fix any complications...outside that, ill be out having fun flying!

Cruelsco Posted at 4-25 07:31
Thanks for the response!

Hopefully DJI retro-certify the legacy drones and it would just fix any complications...outside that, ill be out having fun flying!

I’m confident that both dji and EASA are on the same page here and this will basically a non entity soon.

Cruelsco Posted at 4-25 04:18
Looking for some more information here, I can see that EASA are now going to allow manufacturers to retroactively have drones classified which is good news, so long as DJI go through with it.

Has there been any information from CAA in the UK regarding this? Last I heard they were saying no retro-classifying but I am hoping their stance will, or has changed on this.

There's no official statement from EASA saying that will be possible.
There's no confirmation from DJI they'll submit the paperwork.

And on top of that, if its like every other EU certification, it'll only apply to devices sold and marked as such so anything bought before that possible date, even if its the same drone, is non-compliant.

Depends how much you want to gamble for the sake of waiting a few months to see what pans out.

gnirtS Posted at 4-25 14:25
There's no official statement from EASA saying that will be possible.
There's no confirmation from DJI they'll submit the paperwork.

He’s already bought his drone and is happily flying it, its clear if you read post 68 EASA claimed they would allow retro fit for some drones, and dji have also confirmed they will do necessary retro fit hardware or Firmware. So no need for you to be keeping yourself up all night, you done similar 12 months ago, its scaremongering nothing else.

hallmark007 Posted at 4-25 15:11
He’s already bought his drone and is happily flying it, its clear if you read post 68 EASA claimed they would allow retro fit for some drones, and dji have also confirmed they will do necessary retro fit hardware or Firmware. So no need for you to be keeping yourself up all night, you done similar 12 months ago, its scaremongering nothing else.

You really have little or no understanding (as is clear from all you responses here).

*IF* retrospective certification is possible its highly likely this will only apply to devices bought after that date and appropriately marked.
There exists no procedure at all for updating and marking devices already sold.  None.
And by the rules those devices will not comply.  They're not marked.

Its perfectly possible the Air2S might get certified but its also perfectly possible that any bought before that date cannot be marked and updated to comply with that.

...and if the drone must be sent-in for the retrofit, it will for sure not be free of charge.

gnirtS Posted at 4-25 16:03
You really have little or no understanding (as is clear from all you responses here).

*IF* retrospective certification is possible its highly likely this will only apply to devices bought after that date and appropriately marked.

EXACTLY it’s perfectly possible and thats all people are asking, you’re just putting out tripe to scaremonger. As part of an Irish delegation I have attended many meetings and havr put forward many proposals. All these meetings were attended by EASA DJI and other delegations throughout Europe, so I have a good idea what was discussed and what’s coming down the road.

You spout “highly likely” “perfectly possible” sounds like you’re now starting your own guessing game.

WernerD Posted at 4-25 22:32
...and if the drone must be sent-in for the retrofit, it will for sure not be free of charge.

Well it could be and particularly if its still under warranty.

Believe and do not search...
God and DJI will provide the solution

S.T. Posted at 4-26 05:27
Believe and do not search...
God and DJI will provide the solution

Well live for today and fcuk the begrudgers.

hallmark007 Posted at 4-26 06:42
Well live for today and fcuk the begrudgers.

Guess a lot depends on where you live too.. here in the southeast of England if i have to fly >150 from any building and in an area where there are no uninvolved people .. then that's pretty restrictive. Pretty much excludes anywhere for a hundred miles.

Makes it less attractive to do £1200 on a drone that's not C rated during a transition period that's over in a year and a half. Probably more sensible to wait and see what happens over the coming months and wait for an official statement from DJI and an update from the CAA.

Some might think it just rhetoric though ;)

For me not worth it without marking

Bill Adama Posted at 4-27 06:18
Guess a lot depends on where you live too.. here in the southeast of England if i have to fly >150 from any building and in an area where there are no uninvolved people .. then that's pretty restrictive. Pretty much excludes anywhere for a hundred miles.

Makes it less attractive to do £1200 on a drone that's not C rated during a transition period that's over in a year and a half. Probably more sensible to wait and see what happens over the coming months and wait for an official statement from DJI and an update from the CAA.

Yes thats fine, but nobody is doing anything wrong here, if you wish to wait then thats your choice and I wish you luck and we know this will all get sorted sometime in the future.

WernerD Posted at 4-21 22:04
Agree fully with what you said. I also checked your post #68 but cannot find any external confirmation. Currently I am looking for proof about the following statements I read in this thread. Any input would be appreciated.

EASA will allow retrofit

Couldnt agree more with the 6 points above, I want 2 of them, the money is burning a whole in my pocket to go & get them. As the sec is great.
But not until there is certainty as in the 6 points above.

I bought the Air2S, currently flying in A2... and don't regret a thing; maybe in one and a half year I can fly it in A1, maybe I'll have to fly it in A3,  or maybe I already crashed it... or maybe I'll just want to sell it and buy an Air 3 or Mavic 3, or Mini 3 or whatever drone comes next...

If you don't want to get the Air2S because you already have the Air2, the Pro 2 or you just want to wait for the Mavic 3 is understandable... but waiting for the legislation to catch up with your hobby? What if EASA delays the legislation again? You won't fly drones till 2025?

I doubt that even the Mavic 3, that it's supposedly coming later this year, has the classification sticker; just wake up and enjoy the hobby while you can because this is getting worse and worse for us every day that passes.

Wait till you need eID to fly, wait till any drone hater with the app can see your takeoff location, wait till the hobby gets even more criminalized by the media, wait till Amazon starts buying chunks of airspace below 120m.... just wait, you'll see.

Huginn Kenningar Posted at 4-27 14:54
I bought the Air2S, currently flying in A2... and don't regret a thing; maybe in one and a half year I can fly it in A1, maybe I'll have to fly it in A3,  or maybe I already crashed it... or maybe I'll just want to sell it and buy an Air 3 or Mavic 3, or Mini 3 or whatever drone comes next...

If you don't want to get the Air2S because you already have the Air2, the Pro 2 or you just want to wait for the Mavic 3 is understandable... but waiting for the legislation to catch up with your hobby? What if EASA delays the legislation again? You won't fly drones till 2025?

I’m almost certain for most of these folk, that if it had certification, they wouldn’t buy because it doesn’t have Side Sensors or Aperture manually or HDR or 22/24/26/28/30/ MP , Ive seen this play out many times on this forum....

Nope, with certification I would go for it in a heartbeat and hope it will get Goggle support later. Its image quality is just too good to be missed out.
Without, it does not fit between the Mini 2 and the Inspire. Mini 2 I can fly everywhere but the video quality leaves something to desire. Inspire has excellent video quality still and dual operator but can be flown almost never due to its weight.
Hence waiting how Air2s gets sorted out or how Mavic 3, Air3, Mini3 does look like - whatever comes first.
And if Skydio comes up with something in the meantime with GPS + Visual tracking and certification for Europe, that will be a must have and no DJI drone the result.

That is the state of thought for me personally.