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Drone lost to Sea
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Suren
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What do you guys think of this video, I think this pilot was a fool for flying in the winds like that because even in sports mode the drone was battling high winds and now he raises a ticket with Dji.


4-29 11:44
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fans1adbdd02
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I don't beleave the drone was up and running after it got dropped in the ocean.  
4-29 16:29
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rwynant V1
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Why would anyone fly an unknown $1300 package over the ocean without vetting the capabilities of the drone?  

Learn what you have ...... test...test and test some more.  Then don't fly over water in any wind without having a plan!!
4-29 18:49
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Suren
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fans1adbdd02 Posted at 4-29 16:29
I don't beleave the drone was up and running after it got dropped in the ocean.

It would have run out of battery power
4-29 18:58
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Suren
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rwynant V1 Posted at 4-29 18:49
Why would anyone fly an unknown $1300 package over the ocean without vetting the capabilities of the drone?  

Learn what you have ...... test...test and test some more.  Then don't fly over water in any wind without having a plan!!

Very True. I took me almost 8 months to fully trust my Mavic 2 before sending it out over the sea. Now I send my Air2S over water but will keep it close to shore and will never fly with the wind to my back going out which is what this guy must have done.
4-29 19:00
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GaryDoug
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OK, I watched the whole thing and I do not believe this was the fault of the operator....mostly. Being a long time sailor, I noticed no sea conditions that indicated a wind of over 20 knots at the most, and the A2s should be able to deal with that easily (43 mph max in sport mode). There are only a few small whitecaps and the wind at sea level was probably about 12-15 knots. Now at the drone's altitude it could be more, but not high enough to be a big problem for an A2s. Something does not add up here.

Now for the disclaimer. The operator should have reduced altitude and aimed for the shore at a greater angle from the home point, not directly into the wind. Better to have to walk a quarter mile to retrieve it than lose it. Because he did not, I fault him for that much.

The A2s does not know the wind speed. It estimates that by measuring it's GPS progress compared to the throttle value. If that ratio is not above a certain level, it reports "high winds" as an assumption. A mechanical or electical anomoly could cause invalid messages.

Two weeks ago, I flew my MA2 over a few islands in my area in what looks like very similar conditions, breakers on the beach and a few whitecaps. I had no problems all day long.



4-29 19:11
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Hello there Suren. Good day and thank you for sharing this video you have found. Have a safe and a happy flying always.
4-29 20:04
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Labroides
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What do you guys think of this video

The guy is a loser.
It would have been a lot quicker and easier to determine the issue just looking at hias flight data rather than listen to him and try to put the story together from his video.
But here's what actually happened.

He had no understanding of the wind's direction or hpw that would affect the flight.
Look at the wave patterns and you see that the wind was from West - WSW.
Speed going out 16-17 m/s - the wind is a crosswind.
It would have been no trouble to fly straight back.

When the loser gets a strong wind warning, he doesn't think about the wind's direction .. just that the wind is strong (in DJI-speak it's >7 metres/sec).
He says:
Try going off to the right (NE) maybe you'll get an easier entrance there.
Do not come back the way you went out.
Idiot move because that puts the drone way downwind, forcing a long fight against a headwind to come home.
This is confirmed when the drone is working hard in sport mode to make 4-6 m/s against the headwind.
Things are looking grim.
But they persist fighting the headwind in sport mode, which burns through the battery quickly.
They go a little off to the left which reduces the headwind component, but puts teh drone further away from land.
They leave the drone up high where the wind is stronger.

Even with the battery close to zero and the power has been limited, all he can think of is to try to push against the headwind.
He never mad a push across teh wind toward shore.

Limited understanding of flying in wind.
No awareness of what the wind was doing.
No knowledge or experience to do anything to remedy the situation after putting the drone into a position that made it difficult to come back.
One huge error, compounded by a series of further mistakes.
He's a Loser.

Flying out at sea you are in an unforgiving environment.
Just one mistake might mean losing the drone.
This guy could have done several things to save the drone after the first big mistake but missed them all.
And on top of all that, he fails to recognise any of the mistakes he made and then blames the drone.
Two time Loser.


4-29 20:32
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Labroides
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GaryDoug Posted at 4-29 19:11
OK, I watched the whole thing and I do not believe this was the fault of the operator....mostly. Being a long time sailor, I noticed no sea conditions that indicated a wind of over 20 knots at the most, and the A2s should be able to deal with that easily (43 mph max in sport mode). There are only a few small whitecaps and the wind at sea level was probably about 12-15 knots. Now at the drone's altitude it could be more, but not high enough to be a big problem for an A2s. Something does not add up here.

Now for the disclaimer. The operator should have reduced altitude and aimed for the shore at a greater angle from the home point, not directly into the wind. Better to have to walk a quarter mile to retrieve it than lose it. Because he did not, I fault him for that much.

The A2s does not know the wind speed. It estimates that by measuring it's GPS progress compared to the throttle value. If that ratio is not above a certain level, it reports "high winds" as an assumption. A mechanical or electrical anomaly could cause invalid messages.

The drone's wind warning is calculated from the tilt and roll data and is triggered whe the wind speed is calculated to be >7 metres/sec.
The wind his drone was dealing with up there probably was something around that figure.

But this loser flew the drone 2500 metres downwind (and 1200 metres from the nearest shore) and tried to push against a sigificant headwind when the battery is already at 40%.
Sport Mode is very uneconomical and burns battery quickly.
As demonstrated it guzzled the 40% battery down to nothing before the operator could get home.

Wind speed is only a small part drone flying.
Wind direction is even more important.

4-29 20:50
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GaryDoug
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Labroides Posted at 4-29 20:50
The A2s does not know the wind speed. It estimates that by measuring it's GPS progress compared to the throttle value. If that ratio is not above a certain level, it reports "high winds" as an assumption. A mechanical or electrical anomaly could cause invalid messages.

The drone's wind warning is calculated from the tilt and roll data and is triggered whe the wind speed is calculated to be >7 metres/sec.

I stand corrected. Not long after posting, I thought it would be better worded as attitude (tilt angle) rather than throttle value.

I think a big part of the final failure was repeatedly trying to increase altitude instead of reducing it. All the small bit of power left seemed to go to keeping the drone at that height, not to mention some possibly higher headwind there.

4-29 21:10
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Labroides
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GaryDoug Posted at 4-29 21:10
I stand corrected. Not long after posting, I thought it would be better worded as attitude (tilt angle) rather than throttle value.

I think a big part of the final failure was repeatedly trying to increase altitude instead of reducing it. All the small bit of power left seemed to go to keeping the drone at that height, not to mention some possibly higher headwind there.

So many mistakes.
He did just about everything wrong that he could have, but even after losing the drone didn't seem to realise any mistakes.
It's sad to lose a drone.
It's a waste to learn nothing from it.
4-29 23:19
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Montfrooij
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All for the views.
4-30 00:02
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DAFlys
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What a twit.   
4-30 00:45
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videoeditman
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Why did he keep going when he was already down to 40% battery? What height was he at (didn't lower altitude)? Did he have any idea which way the wind was blowing? Hopefully he will learn to plan or not fly again!
4-30 04:53
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KLRSKIR
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This happens most every day around the globe. Only a few choose to make a video and blame their mistakes on Mother Nature.
4-30 05:50
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Huginn Kenningar
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Such a mistake to fly with the wind into the sea... and wait for 40% to return... from 2,4Km.

Burning gas in full stick sports mode and flying at high altitude... If you want it to come home... normal mode, low altitude and half stick. You want to get 20-30Km/h but you need to maintain the amperage as low as possible or you'll burn the fuel in no time.

The speed you can achieve with the full stick in normal mode is a good indicator of the strength of the wind, and the tilt in the compass at the lower left corner shows you the direction of the wind. Try to fly crosswind to the shore instead of just burning gas into the wind at high altitude ¬_¬U

PS: And if it's windy, stay under 1Km radious, that way it will allways be able to return, just go 2Km or more if you understand how to surf the wind properly.
4-30 11:47
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Suren
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Labroides Posted at 4-29 20:32
What do you guys think of this video

The guy is a loser.

Agreed, plenty of ways to get back. If you get caught in high wind/gusts drop altitude first is what I always try. It could also be a ploy just to rack up views and he never really lost the drone. I flew my Air2S in 32km winds here and back with no issues at all.
4-30 11:53
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Suren
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Sometimes people do stupid things or they fake it just to get views
4-30 12:00
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crosswired
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I'm not Einstein but first thing what he should've done was go low altitude.
Ive had similar experience, flew roughly 2.5km across the bay (against the wind) and somewhere at 2km point wind changed direction (which I didnt know at this stage). Happily took some pics and videos and decided that time to go back home with battery well over 60% so like a boss was enjoining the views when noticed that battery meter goes gown too fast, way too fast and ...holy sugar, was thinking, it wont make.... panic mode was on at this stage, wifey calls me an idiot and all that stuff .In a stroke of genius took a look at altimeter and guess what, the drone (MA2) was at over 100m up so flew it dow to 30m and made home with 24% of juice left .
Lesson learned
4-30 13:50
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Labroides
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Suren Posted at 4-30 11:53
Agreed, plenty of ways to get back. If you get caught in high wind/gusts drop altitude first is what I always try. It could also be a ploy just to rack up views and he never really lost the drone. I flew my Air2S in 32km winds here and back with no issues at all.

It could also be a ploy just to rack up views and he never really lost the drone.
What do you think happened when the battery went to zero and the drone was still offshore?
4-30 15:47
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Huginn Kenningar
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Labroides Posted at 4-30 15:47
It could also be a ploy just to rack up views and he never really lost the drone.
What do you think happened when the battery went to zero and the drone was still offshore?

I think he really lost it... but I doubt he payed for it, youtubers usually get free drones from DJI.

There  are some nice youtubers (Hatu, Ken Heron, Billy Kyle, FlytPath,  DroningON, Tech Drone Media, Joshua Bardwell, etc) and then there are also stupids like this guy.

Joshua for example crashed the DJI FPV,  but that seemed pretty normal, as FPVs are constantly crashing (DJI sent  him not one, but two FPV drones in advance).

An "experienced" pilot flying over water with a tailwind and returning at 40% in sports mode? Everyone knows how that is going to end.
4-30 16:09
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GaryDoug
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videoeditman Posted at 4-30 04:53
Why did he keep going when he was already down to 40% battery? What height was he at (didn't lower altitude)? Did he have any idea which way the wind was blowing? Hopefully he will learn to plan or not fly again!

I noticed this from the video and diagrams: When the battery went low, it looked like the drone started to drop altitude to at least 33 meters (prep for landing??). Instead of letting it go lower, he reacted the opposite and raised it up to 50 meters. I would have lowered it to maybe 10 meters or less. I am assuming he had LOS at the time and the lower altitude would not have caused a loss of comms but I could be wrong.
4-30 17:48
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Dominic1
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DJI should make a small airbag cartridge on their drones that would inflate in water. So there is a possible chance to recover it.
5-1 06:06
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Mike90210
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Crash aside, I really admire his story telling technique and video productions values.

I was so #ZEN watching it :-)
5-1 08:02
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Suren
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Labroides Posted at 4-30 15:47
It could also be a ploy just to rack up views and he never really lost the drone.
What do you think happened when the battery went to zero and the drone was still offshore?

Most of these you tubers just do things for views
5-1 13:40
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Montfrooij
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Suren Posted at 4-30 12:00
Sometimes people do stupid things or they fake it just to get views

Exactly.
I don't like that part of YT.
5-2 03:38
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hallmark007
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This guy is completely obnoxious, I’ve watched some of his videos particularly on Air 2 s and he really hasn’t much of a clue.
He says he was flying with a Guy that is allowed fly BVLOS, but polish and European rules do not allow this under any circumstances, yes there is a rule that allows flying BVLOS with permission and you need to put forward in writing a risk assessment “which obviously hasn’t been done in this instance” But his friend is supposed to be pro or at least proficient flying drones, but made the most basic mistake of flying out downwind and back straight into a headwind. He lost his drone “thats what Happens”
And yes Clickbait is very obvious here...
5-2 05:47
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Suren
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hallmark007 Posted at 5-2 05:47
This guy is completely obnoxious, I’ve watched some of his videos particularly on Air 2 s and he really hasn’t much of a clue.
He says he was flying with a Guy that is allowed fly BVLOS, but polish and European rules do not allow this under any circumstances, yes there is a rule that allows flying BVLOS with permission and you need to put forward in writing a risk assessment “which obviously hasn’t been done in this instance” But his friend is supposed to be pro or at least proficient flying drones, but made the most basic mistake of flying out downwind and back straight into a headwind. He lost his drone “thats what Happens”
And yes Clickbait is very obvious here...

'm not sure about the EU rules but yes it is clickbait.
5-2 11:15
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MattCaz
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Dominic1 Posted at 5-1 06:06
DJI should make a small airbag cartridge on their drones that would inflate in water. So there is a possible chance to recover it.

I have one of these in case I ever get the desire to go flying over water with my mini 2, MA2 or Air 2s.
https://www.getterback.com/

GetterBack.jpg
5-2 11:48
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Huginn Kenningar
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hallmark007 Posted at 5-2 05:47
This guy is completely obnoxious, I’ve watched some of his videos particularly on Air 2 s and he really hasn’t much of a clue.
He says he was flying with a Guy that is allowed fly BVLOS, but polish and European rules do not allow this under any circumstances, yes there is a rule that allows flying BVLOS with permission and you need to put forward in writing a risk assessment “which obviously hasn’t been done in this instance” But his friend is supposed to be pro or at least proficient flying drones, but made the most basic mistake of flying out downwind and back straight into a headwind. He lost his drone “thats what Happens”
And yes Clickbait is very obvious here...

To fly in BVLOS in Europe, depending on the country you need to ask for permission and reserve airspace, a procedure which can take about a week or more.

There's a BVLOS scenario where you can fly BVLOS if you have the STS certificate (wich I have btw), the STS-02, but you need a C6 labeled drone... drones can't be C labeled yet, so the only way to do a legal BVLOS flight is to ask for permission and reserve airspace.

You can also get a LUC (Light UAS operator Certificate), so that you can self approve your own BVLOS operations, but to obtain that you need to be an enterprise, you can't get a LUC as a person.

Certain day from certain hour to certain hour you can do the flight. Some people do it, as sometimes in my area appear some chunks of airspace reserved for drone flight, but it's not the common thing, so doubt they had any permit to do BVLOS over water.

That being said, I can easily spot the Air2S at 1Km after looking at the screen and back to the sky, so with a dedicated observer with good sight maybe up to 1.2Km is possible, but not much more (well in daylight conditions, at night those green leds can be seen at 2Km easily)

For the Mini 2 on the other hand I've never been able to relocate it in the sky past 150 meters, but with a dedicated observer can be seen up to 550 meters in daylight and about 750 meters at night.

The bigger the drone, the bigger the VLOS range.

From the new european rule, VLOS definition (member states can add their own subrules, like a 500 meter VLOS limit, for example):
                        
‘visual line of sight operation’ (‘VLOS’) means  a type of UAS operation in which, the remote pilot is able to maintain  continuous unaided visual contact with the unmanned aircraft, allowing  the remote pilot to control the flight path of the unmanned aircraft in  relation to other aircraft, people and obstacles for the purpose of  avoiding collisions;
      
5-2 14:11
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GaryDoug
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MattCaz Posted at 5-2 11:48
I have one of these in case I ever get the desire to go flying over water with my mini 2, MA2 or Air 2s.
https://www.getterback.com/

Keep in mind that this device will not work unless the water is at least 8 feet deep. It operates on pressure and in shallow water there is not as much pressure. I can't use it because most of my over-water flying is in water less than 10 feet.
5-2 14:16
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hallmark007
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Huginn Kenningar Posted at 5-2 14:11
To fly in BVLOS in Europe, depending on the country you need to ask for permission and reserve airspace, a procedure which can take about a week or more.

You can also get a LUC (Light UAS operator Certificate), so that you can self approve your own BVLOS operations, but to obtain that you need to be an enterprise, you can't get a LUC as a person.

I think you’ll find VLOS in Poland is only covered to 400m no further for normal use of a drone, so doesn’t matter whether you flying a Mini or an inspire 400m is your lot, unless you are flying with SOP and you will always need permission for these flights, no drone pilots in Europe have free reign to fly where and when they like and same goes for manned pilots, so long and short of this is, video was done for more clicks and information given regarding pilot is almost certainly wrong.
I don’t believe any insurance will give you cover for LUC without providing risk assessment first .
5-2 14:39
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Huginn Kenningar
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hallmark007 Posted at 5-2 14:39
I think you’ll find VLOS in Poland is only covered to 400m no further for normal use of a drone, so doesn’t matter whether you flying a Mini or an inspire 400m is your lot, unless you are flying with SOP and you will always need permission for these flights, no drone pilots in Europe have free reign to fly where and when they like and same goes for manned pilots, so long and short of this is, video was done for more clicks and information given regarding pilot is almost certainly wrong.
I don’t believe any insurance will give you cover for LUC without providing risk assessment first .

The new european rule has no distance limit for VLOS range, but state members can modify the rules a bit, so they can add a limit. In my country it was 500 meters, but we need to wait for the new legislation that will be approved this year to know whether it is still a 500m limit or not.

Same for flying in controlled air space for example, maybe in the new legislation we are able to fly in controlled airspace up to 60 meters altitude.

And it's obvious he didn't had the permit, I doubt he even have the A1/A3 or A2 certificate to fly the Air2S legally in Europe... but that's his problem.

5-2 14:50
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MattCaz
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GaryDoug Posted at 5-2 14:16
Keep in mind that this device will not work unless the water is at least 8 feet deep. It operates on pressure and in shallow water there is not as much pressure. I can't use it because most of my over-water flying is in water less than 10 feet.

Well in your case you should be able to just dive in and recover it so good for you.



5-2 14:59
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GaryDoug
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MattCaz Posted at 5-2 14:59
Well in your case you should be able to just dive in and recover it so good for you.

That assumes you can find it. Ever try that in an acre of seagrass bottom or a white drone on a sand floor ;-)

Now that I am thinking.... maybe an ounce of blue Lysol in a water soluble bag....

5-2 19:18
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MattCaz
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GaryDoug Posted at 5-2 19:18
That assumes you can find it. Ever try that in an acre of seagrass bottom or a white drone on a sand floor ;-)

Now that I am thinking.... maybe an ounce of blue Lysol in a water soluble bag....

You're just a ray of sunshine aren't you.  8-)
5-2 23:00
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GaryDoug
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MattCaz Posted at 5-2 23:00
You're just a ray of sunshine aren't you.  8-)

Your sarcasm is out of place and not appreciated here.
5-3 14:51
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MattCaz
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GaryDoug Posted at 5-3 14:51
Your sarcasm is out of place and not appreciated here.

I would say the same about your negativity.  All I did was offer up something that was made to assist and you're reply was to point out a problem with it.   As for it being out of place and not appreciated here, I didn't appreciate you dumping all over my attempt to provide some good info for anyone who might be interested in this product.  I don't work for them and I don't sell them.  No good turn goes unpunished.

You fly yours and I'll fly mine.  have a great day!
5-4 16:23
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Savage3006
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Can't we all get alone!!! That is a good product at least you will be able to get her back.
5-4 16:59
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GaryDoug
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MattCaz Posted at 5-4 16:23
I would say the same about your negativity.  All I did was offer up something that was made to assist and you're reply was to point out a problem with it.   As for it being out of place and not appreciated here, I didn't appreciate you dumping all over my attempt to provide some good info for anyone who might be interested in this product.  I don't work for them and I don't sell them.  No good turn goes unpunished.

You fly yours and I'll fly mine.  have a great day!

I was warning the other members here about a flaw in the design that could negatively affect their use of the product. I posted this warning many months ago after communicating directly with the company owner and just wanted to remind people that it is not perfect by a long shot. And speaking of "good info", wouldn't that also apply to describing the shortcoming? It is not a perfect world regardless of what you may think.

And using insults is never "good info" either.

Hello Gary,
Thank you for your interest in our product.    Unfortunately, the minimum depth to activate of(sic) six feet.  We designed  this  into the product to ensure that the check valve stays closed in  all weather  conditions so that no moisture can enter and cause an  accidental  deployment.  Using six feet of water pressure, which is,  about 3 psi, was  the required pressure to achieve this.  Hope this  helps.
Sincerely,

Steve Fisher President  & CEO


5-4 17:45
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