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Falesafe : Reduce Energy
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Sylfest Strutle
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According to a Norwegian checklist for flying BVLOS I need a falesafemode so that "the energy in the model is reduced if loss of control,".  What mode do you recpmmend?
5-7 04:09
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IrishD
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Hi, not sure about your question but BVLOS is permitted in Norway ?
5-7 04:51
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Sylfest Strutle
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IrishD Posted at 5-7 04:51
Hi, not sure about your question but BVLOS is permitted in Norway ?

I want suggestions on the settings so that «the energy in the model is reduced...» if I loose control over the drone during BVLOS/FPV. - Will RTH «reduce the energy» (or do I have to stop the rotors  mid air, and is this a falesafe mode)? BVLOS in Norway is only allowed given several sircumstances. One possibility is to fly with a liscence, as a member of an aero club, and use a checklist to see if BVLOS is  possible. One thing to check, is the falesafe mode.
5-7 05:19
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IrishD
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Sylfest Strutle Posted at 5-7 05:19
I want suggestions on the settings so that «the energy in the model is reduced...» if I loose control over the drone during BVLOS/FPV. - Will RTH «reduce the energy» (or do I have to stop the rotors  mid air, and is this a falesafe mode)? BVLOS in Norway is only allowed given several sircumstances. One possibility is to fly with a liscence, as a member of an aero club, and use a checklist to see if BVLOS is  possible. One thing to check, is the falesafe mode.

Cool that you can use BVLOS.... getting very restrictive here with the drone rules.

Page 43 of the manual shows how u can stop the motors in an emergency ,, is that the type failsafe u need ?
5-7 05:31
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IrishD
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RTH won't reduce power, will just try and come back to you... so in a loss of control situation this wouldn't help.
I suppose it could be considered a failsafe in the event u lost connection.

Killing the motors would be the only way I know of to 'Reduce the energy' in a loss of control event


5-7 05:48
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Sylfest Strutle
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IrishD Posted at 5-7 05:31
Cool that you can use BVLOS.... getting very restrictive here with the drone rules.

Page 43 of the manual shows how u can stop the motors in an emergency ,, is that the type failsafe u need ?

If possible, I would have an automatic failsafe that reduces the energy use of the drone without crashing it... Like returning home the samme way as it travelled, but slower.
5-7 05:49
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IrishD
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I think i may have misunderstood you....

by loss of control do you mean losing signal between the controller and the drone ?
5-7 05:53
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Sylfest Strutle
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IrishD Posted at 5-7 05:53
I think i may have misunderstood you....

by loss of control do you mean losing signal between the controller and the drone ?

Yes, that is what I mean.
5-7 06:22
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videoeditman
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You can set the drone to land when it loses signal, but that could have a very bad ending! Or you can set it to hoover, which is OK if you can get in the car and drive near the location of the drone and reconnect before battery drains. I believe the RTH function sets a specific speed which is probably not battery saving.
5-7 06:32
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IrishD
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videoeditman Posted at 5-7 06:32
You can set the drone to land when it loses signal, but that could have a very bad ending! Or you can set it to hoover, which is OK if you can get in the car and drive near the location of the drone and reconnect before battery drains. I believe the RTH function sets a specific speed which is probably not battery saving.

Hi videoeditman ,
the manual says flight speed is restricted in each mode:
16m/s - Sport
10m/s - Norm
6m/s - Cine

do you know does RTH ignore the mode your in or does it stay within those limits ?

I'm thinking it's probably different depending on what activates the RTH
5-7 06:35
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videoeditman
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Yes, RTH sets the speed: The speed for RTH is 8m/s approx. 18mph, which could be bad on a windy day! This speed is more energy saving than Sport mode for sure.
5-7 06:39
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IrishD
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@Sylfest Strutle

you might want to check your local rules/laws again and see if the RTH feature is a sufficient safety feature for loss of signal ?

the mini 2 only has this 'reduced energy' failsafe for a loss of flight control event where the drone is out of control and going to crash anyway.
the need for a 'reduced energy' failsafe for a loss of signal event may not be required for the mini 2 due to its low weight and built in RTH feature.
5-7 06:47
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Sylfest Strutle
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IrishD Posted at 5-7 06:47
@Sylfest Strutle

you might want to check your local rules/laws again and see if the RTH feature is a sufficient safety feature for loss of signal ?

RTH is, in itself, not an optimal falesafemode,  because we at any time need safe distance. The failsafe procedure  « ...reduced energy...» is of course to avoid the drone posing danger by itself. Normaly failsafe on BVLOS flight  with a small drone  lead to cut off engines and crash. But «reduced energy» by failsafe hovering or landing should do i guess.  If flown in sports mode in a straight line in a remote, nonpopulated  area, RTH could  be an acceptable falesafemode in Norway, I guess.....
5-7 07:40
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videoeditman
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Sylfest Strutle Posted at 5-7 07:40
RTH is, in itself, not an optimal falesafemode,  because we at any time need safe distance. The failsafe procedure  « ...reduced energy...» is of course to avoid the drone posing danger by itself. Normaly failsafe on BVLOS flight  with a small drone  lead to cut off engines and crash. But «reduced energy» by failsafe hovering or landing should do i guess.  If flown in sports mode in a straight line in a remote, nonpopulated  area, RTH could  be an acceptable falesafemode in Norway, I guess.....

Also, in RTH mode after a minute or 2 the drone should reconnect to the controller. If it is to far away to come back Home safely you can cancel RTH and choose a landing place and not let it crash!
5-7 07:59
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Chanc3
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I think energy reduction in this context refers to slowing down the drone as it drops from the sky, effectively reducing impact in case of loss of control (not communication loss between ac and rc) or crash ( for public safety reasons). If this is correct then a parachute system would be a viable fail safe.
Or... a self destruct function that would disintegrate the drone in case it starts falling from the sky uncontrollably.
5-7 09:57
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Labroides
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IrishD Posted at 5-7 06:47
@Sylfest Strutle

you might want to check your local rules/laws again and see if the RTH feature is a sufficient safety feature for loss of signal ?

the mini 2 only has this 'reduced energy' failsafe for a loss of flight control event where the drone is out of control and going to crash anyway.
What are you talking about?
The Mini 2 has no 'reduced energy' failsafe for a loss of flight control event where the drone is out of control and going to crash anyway.
You might think you understand what you typed, but it makes no sense at all.

There is no 'reduced energy' failsafe for a loss of flight control.
5-7 15:58
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Labroides
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Sylfest Strutle Posted at 5-7 07:40
RTH is, in itself, not an optimal falesafemode,  because we at any time need safe distance. The failsafe procedure  « ...reduced energy...» is of course to avoid the drone posing danger by itself. Normaly failsafe on BVLOS flight  with a small drone  lead to cut off engines and crash. But «reduced energy» by failsafe hovering or landing should do i guess.  If flown in sports mode in a straight line in a remote, nonpopulated  area, RTH could  be an acceptable falesafemode in Norway, I guess.....

do you know does RTH ignore the mode your in or does it stay within those limits ?
I'm thinking it's probably different depending on what activates the RTH

RTH is a separate flight mode.
If your drone loses signal and enters RTH, it makes no difference what mode it was in before loss of signal.
If flown in sports mode in a straight line in a remote, nonpopulated  area, RTH could  be an acceptable falesafemode in Norway, I guess.....
No ... it would RTH in RTH mode

This whole thread is very confused.
It's unlikely that the concern is about returning to home on loss of signal.
Much more likely is reduction of kinetic energy of a drone falling after loss of power.
For that you need a parachute device.
Check with your drone safety authority to find out what their rules actually mean, rather than what some random people who have no idea think.

5-7 16:09
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IrishD
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Labroides Posted at 5-7 16:09
do you know does RTH ignore the mode your in or does it stay within those limits ?
I'm thinking it's probably different depending on what activates the RTH
RTH is a separate flight mode.

what are u on about ?

of course switching off the motors reduces energy, it's no longer propelled

you should climb down off whatever platform u think you're on
5-7 16:52
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Labroides
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IrishD Posted at 5-7 16:52
what are u on about ?

of course switching off the motors reduces energy, it's no longer propelled

what are u on about ?
I'm talking about a blabbering idiot that doesn't have any idea how limited his understanding is.

of course switching off the motors reduces energy, it's no longer propelled
That only applies if the unpowered drone just sits there pinned to the sky.
In the real world, if you cut the power, your drone falls to the ground with significant kinetic energy.
And that's the energy the OP needs to find a way to reduce.

And to go back to your wackdoodle idea, how do you suggest he could cut the motors if he's lost control of the drone?

you should climb down off whatever platform u think you're on
I think you should only comment when you have some actual understanding of the topic and the question being answered.
Otherwise you just confuse people with irrelevant nonsense as you've done with this thread.

5-7 17:12
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IrishD
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Powered drone continues to release energy

Unpowered doesn't      

This point is not exclusive to drones and is really simple, u must be the one misunderstanding
5-7 17:15
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Labroides
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IrishD Posted at 5-7 17:15
Powered drone continues to release energy

Unpowered doesn't      

There's no point discussing the matter with you.
You've shown that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about or about the issue the OP is asking about.


5-7 17:20
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IrishD
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Labroides Posted at 5-7 17:20
There's no point discussing the matter with you.
You've shown that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about or about the issue the OP is asking about.

me and the op cleared the original misunderstanding up, didn't u read ?

Motors off = less energy !
Maybe u can explain how that's wrong with more of the fancy blue font.
Good chap
5-7 17:22
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Labroides
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IrishD Posted at 5-7 17:22
me and the op cleared the original misunderstanding up, didn't u read ?

Motors off = less energy !

me and the op cleared the original misunderstanding up, didn't u read ?
You didn't clear anything up.
You still don't understand the issue he is asking about and only confused him more.

Motors off = less energy !

One more time ... what happens if you shut down the power of a drone in flight?
It falls to the ground and has significant kinetic energy.
How are you going to reduce the kinetic energy of a falling drone?

But I'm still wondering how you think anyone can cut their drone's power, if they have lost control.



5-7 17:27
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IrishD
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Labroides Posted at 5-7 17:27
me and the op cleared the original misunderstanding up, didn't u read ?
You didn't clear anything up.
You still don't understand the issue he is asking about and only confused him more.

are you for real ?
according to your profile you're an experienced pilot and you're honestly trying to make the case that and out of control drone under power is carrying less energy than one that isn't powered ?
and stop talking kinetics when its god damn kinetic energy is maintained when under power ... WTF man, this isn't complicated

5-7 17:32
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IrishD
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"But I'm still wondering how you think anyone can cut their drone's power, if they have lost control."

as described on page 35-36 of the mini2 manual
5-7 17:34
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IrishD
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I think it's just the terminologies that are causing confusion here...
Loss of control / Out of control / Loss of connection etc

to me 'loss of control' would be loss of flight controls
ie: still fully connected but your inputs no longer have effect due to motor failure, impact with something etc

'Loss of connection' would be either video loss, RC loss or both  

'Totally F****d' would be all of the above
5-7 17:48
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Labroides
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IrishD Posted at 5-7 17:48
I think it's just the terminologies that are causing confusion here...
Loss of control / Out of control / Loss of connection etc

to me 'loss of control' would be loss of flight controls
ie: still fully connected but your inputs no longer have effect due to motor failure, impact with something etc
'Loss of connection' would be either video loss, RC loss or both  


OK genius ... if your control inputs no longer have effect or if you have lost connection, please explain how you imagine you would be able to cut power ???

But that's irrelevant because that's not adressing the OP's issue.
The concern he has to address is how to reduce the kinetic energy of a falling drone after it's lost power.
Not how do you make a drone fall to the ground.
Why in the world would you ever think that's the solution to anything?

But I won't expect any of that to make any sense to you as I've put it in clear, simple English and understanding that is way beyond your limited skill set.
Much like it doesn't include understanding how your drone works.


5-7 19:52
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GaryDoug
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I think we need to start over.

"According to a Norwegian checklist for flying BVLOS I need a falesafemode so that "the energy in the model is reduced if loss of control,".  What mode do you recpmmend? "

Does the checklist have any other details or a guide that explains it?
If not, technically if you fly in sport mode and lose control, the Mini 2 will do an RTH in the lesser speed mode. That might be enough of a solution to the list. Or you could set it to hover, reducing the speed to zero.
I am making an assumption that this was written for RC aircraft that can not hover; and lowering power would be much safer. It doesn't require you to remove power, just "reduce" it.

So the answer here is that we do not know without more information.

5-7 20:05
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Labroides
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GaryDoug Posted at 5-7 20:05
I think we need to start over.

"According to a Norwegian checklist for flying BVLOS I need a falesafemode so that "the energy in the model is reduced if loss of control,".  What mode do you recpmmend? "

The use of the word failsafe has confused people here.
It isn't referring to RTH on loss of signal at all.

It would help to see the actual regulation rather than an approximate rough translation.
5-7 21:39
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IrishD
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Labroides Posted at 5-7 21:39
The use of the word failsafe has confused people here.
It isn't referring to RTH on loss of signal at all.

You really are up your own ass aren't you .

I tried calming things down with a bit of humour but NO.

I've never been to Australia but you must be working with different laws of Physics there,
where i'm from an object in motion is carrying more energy than one that's stationary.

Please respond because you're making a complete Tit of yourself and I find it hilarious.

SO PLEASE don't drift off topic, i'm talking about NOTHING other than you claiming a powered drone has the same energy as an unpowered one.

DJi themselves list killing the motors as an option in an 'OUT OF CONTROL EVENT'

So please go ahead fool

I guess Flight distance doesn't mean much on here 'Flight distance : 9991457 ft' Lesson learned.
5-8 03:07
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IrishD
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i should probably get this guy a shovel  
5-8 03:11
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IrishD
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DJi must have no understanding of how drones work  



5-8 03:35
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Labroides
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IrishD Posted at 5-8 03:07
You really are up your own ass aren't you .

I tried calming things down with a bit of humour but NO.

I've said it all three times already so there's no need to repeat it again.
You are really missing each of the relevant points.
Just go back and read what I've already posted.
Even better, get someone to read it to you.


5-8 04:42
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IrishD
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Labroides Posted at 5-8 04:42
I've said it all three times already so there's no need to repeat it again.
You are really missing each of the relevant points.
Just go back and read what I've already posted.

no...You go read

this thread was quite civil and constructive until you arrived in and start trying to school everyone.
You made a claim that was simply wrong and are too stubborn to go back on it.

I've linked the exact part of the manual that explains how to kill motors in an out of control event. (which you have already stated u don't understand)
Instead of engaging in the discussion you go DRAGON MODE and start breathing fire and completely contradict me and the official manual.

I'm done with this, anyone reading this thread can see how un-reasonable you're being and will hopefully learn not to judge a persons knowledge on their profiles flight distance.

Good day.
5-8 05:08
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Labroides
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IrishD Posted at 5-8 03:07
You really are up your own ass aren't you .

I tried calming things down with a bit of humour but NO.

I guess Flight distance doesn't mean much on here 'Flight distance : 9991457 ft' Lesson learned.
Guess again idiot.
If I synced my flight records that number would be more than doubled.
But dream on.
How could it be that someone that's been flying these things professionally for more than 6 years knows nothing while an ignorant prick like you knows it all?

5-8 05:09
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IrishD
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and again u avoid topic
angry little man  

I've flown rc heli's for years ....
You ever see the difference in a heli crash where the motor is disengaged compared to when it's still under power and being driven ?
These things can hit the ground and still unleash huge power and will cause itself more damage and even propell itself back off the ground in any direction.
The reason is difference in energy.

But you already know this
5-8 05:21
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hallmark007
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IrishD Posted at 5-8 05:08
no...You go read

this thread was quite civil and constructive until you arrived in and start trying to school everyone.

“the mini 2 only has this 'reduced energy' failsafe for a loss of flight control event where the drone is out of control and going to crash anyway.””

I have to agree with Labroids, Its ridiculous to insist that a drone crashing to the ground is a Failsafe measure.

If the OP is flying BVLOS and loses control he has many failsafes and one of these is certainly not to "cut motors", that is more suitable to be called “Not Safe” The OP clearly said loss of control “not out of control”
Landing will be a lot safer, it’s automatic and speed is controlled also drone will not completely land until it has a safe landing spot and if this is not possible it will just wait until its out of energy. Hover is exactly the same. Rth speed is set to P or normal mode no matter what Mode you’re flying in.

Cutting motors when you are BVLOS And have “lost Control” is probably the most unsafe thing you can do. Its not a failsafe and its not designed to reduce energy. I’d much prefer to see a controlled drone landing than one tumbling out of control. CSC was designed to quit motors on impact or to avoid imminent collision and if you’re BVLOS you are going to have heck of a time figuring that out.

Rules in Norway in category below pro flying do not include BVLOS for any flying missions including having spotters.

The OP has not explained to well these Rules and they make very little sense in English or even drone speak.
5-8 10:33
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IrishD
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hi @hallmark007

"I have to agree with Labroids, Its ridiculous to insist that a drone crashing to the ground is a Failsafe measure."

I wasn't insisting that it's a failsafe... i'm insisting that an unpowered drone is carrying less energy than a powered one,...
pretty straightforward really
5-8 13:16
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Sylfest Strutle
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GaryDoug Posted at 5-7 20:05
I think we need to start over.

"According to a Norwegian checklist for flying BVLOS I need a falesafemode so that "the energy in the model is reduced if loss of control,".  What mode do you recpmmend? "

The checklist has 10 points, conserning control of area, air traffick, strobelights etc. The exact phrase on the one conserning failsafe mode (my translation...): Is failsafemode configurated so that the energy in the model reduces in case of loss of control. Example: the propeller stops ?». Untill it is revised, this is what I need to follow.
5-8 13:41
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hallmark007
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IrishD Posted at 5-8 13:16
hi @hallmark007

"I have to agree with Labroids, Its ridiculous to insist that a drone crashing to the ground is a Failsafe measure."

You called it a failsafe, and it was precisely this that labroids pulled you up on. Its not a failsafe and when your drone is out of control you cannot use this, hence “Out of Control” this movement is basically for when you crash into something and props are still spinning and imminent crash but even then you are not saving a crash you are guaranteeing a crash. i can see this helping in situations where drone crashes into people or their property and could possibly do some more damage because its still flying, but you have control of that.
In the Air well if you see a helicopter and most people will hear a helicopter 5 miles away an on a reasonable day up to 10 miles away, so work that one out for yourself.

Again the OP gave scant information which made little sense, I certainly cant find the rule he speaks of and my guess is he a little confused.
5-8 13:43
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