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Noise on Air2s
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b9y
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Hey guys.

I had the same problem on the MA2. I sent my Air2s to DJI and they told me everything was fine. But the noise I see on video is pretty bad in bright daylight. I've noticed that when using an ND filter, 4-8 in daylight, what happens is the darker areas have noise. But with no ND filter, later in the day, those darker areas (to the equivalent brightness) don't seem to. Does anyone else have this issue? It seems like the ND filters introduce noise even in areas that wouldn't be as dark. It's weird.
2021-7-30
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Huginn Kenningar
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If the ISO rises the noise also rises, try to lock ISO to 100 and use the exact filter that gives you the desired shutter speed.

If you put a too dark ND and leave the settings on auto, it may rise the ISO to compensate the exposure and hence you'll have noisy footage.
2021-7-30
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AlexanderK
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Same here. iso 100 shutter fixed at 1/50 (pal area). D Log 5.4 k footage has massive noise. I know what I'm doing, I've been in de film industry for over 20 years and work with all kind of material on a daily basis (Arri, Red, Sony, Canon... all kind of logs) but this is way worse then any of them. I've tested with slightly under- or over exposing but its just in the material.  


I do find a basic noise reduction in Resolve (or use neat premiere) solves most of it. I'd like a sharpness adjust in camera as well, hope DJI adds that.


2021-7-31
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Huginn Kenningar
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Well, the size of the sensor it's what it is... can't expect the IQ of a FF.

Mini 2 is a flying smartphone camera and Air2s is a a flying compact camera... for more quality you have to attach the desired camera to a bigger drone or just velcro it to an FPV like that ad from Porsche XD
2021-7-31
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AlexanderK
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Huginn Kenningar Posted at 7-31 04:56
Well, the size of the sensor it's what it is... can't expect the IQ of a FF.

Mini 2 is a flying smartphone camera and Air2s is a a flying compact camera... for more quality you have to attach the desired camera to a bigger drone or just velcro it to an FPV like that ad from Porsche XD

yeah but thats a nonsens reply. My mini 2 produces less noise than the Air2s. This is very visual noise, something I haven't seen in a Phantom 4 pro for example. Or any cam for that matter. And yes I know.... the mini2 does use nr a bit etc etc... thats not the point. I know what to expect image wise to a certain extend... but this is so pronounced in the images I really think it could be a faulty sensor. If I was provided with this material I would call the camera operator for sure, just to check everything is okay.
But reading more and more I see some other users also report this. If I look at a shot (yes on a callibrated broadcast monitor) there is one thing that stands out: noise. I'll post some shots for you later this weekend.
I'm not expacting Arri Alexa like preformace or FF (noise wise), nowhere did I state I did so please don't assume that. I do expact it to keep up with something like a Phantom 4 in log.


2021-7-31
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Huginn Kenningar
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At least  based from my experience both with the Mini 2 and the Air2S, the Mini 2 photos are noisy even in plain sunny daylight. On the video side, the lower bitrate of the Mini 2 eats up all the quality compared to the Air2S, wich is specially noticeable on the artifacts that appear on high frequency areas like in tall grass in landscapes.

Optical quality is also poorer on the Mini 2, showing a magenta tint that ruins the entire picture every time the sun hits the lens, while on the Air2S you can shoot facing the sun without any problems and with minimal glare. And the fact that the Mini 2 lens has fixed focus makes all the image equally blurry and you have to abuse the unsharp mask to get anything usable.

Air2S camera is way beyond Mini 2 capabilities either for photos and video, with much better dynamic range and much less noise and diffraction... but ofc is miles away from any FF DLSR. On the other hand the Mavic line not necessarily beats the Phantom line in image quality, but they were bulky and noisy, while you can bring the Air2S and 3 batteries anywhere with it's small bag and due to it's weight fly almost everywhere.

I don't think you can expect more for the price it has... compared to the price of a Canon R6 or R5... or the Inspire, Mavic line are cheap as hell for what they offer.

PS: If the noise you are getting is exaggerated maybe you have a faulty camera unit, idk.
2021-7-31
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b9y
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Huginn Kenningar Posted at 7-31 07:13
At least  based from my experience both with the Mini 2 and the Air2S, the Mini 2 photos are noisy even in plain sunny daylight. On the video side, the lower bitrate of the Mini 2 eats up all the quality compared to the Air2S, wich is specially noticeable on the artifacts that appear on high frequency areas like in tall grass in landscapes.

Optical quality is also poorer on the Mini 2, showing a magenta tint that ruins the entire picture every time the sun hits the lens, while on the Air2S you can shoot facing the sun without any problems and with minimal glare. And the fact that the Mini 2 lens has fixed focus makes all the image equally blurry and you have to abuse the unsharp mask to get anything usable.

They said it was fine but I don't trust them.

Pan shot 26 seconds in, was taken with an ND8 filter:



Quite noticeable, plenty of light and even with the ND8 it was overexposed by +1. Ridiculous to be honest.
2021-8-2
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b9y
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Huginn Kenningar Posted at 7-30 07:39
If the ISO rises the noise also rises, try to lock ISO to 100 and use the exact filter that gives you the desired shutter speed.

If you put a too dark ND and leave the settings on auto, it may rise the ISO to compensate the exposure and hence you'll have noisy footage.

ISO is set to 100 and locked always.
2021-8-2
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b9y
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b9y Posted at 8-2 08:08
They said it was fine but I don't trust them.

Pan shot 26 seconds in, was taken with an ND8 filter:

Also if anyone says about Youtube /  artifacts I can assure  you before colour-grading, the footage was basically the same noise levels.
2021-8-2
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b9y
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AlexanderK Posted at 7-31 03:39
Same here. iso 100 shutter fixed at 1/50 (pal area). D Log 5.4 k footage has massive noise. I know what I'm doing, I've been in de film industry for over 20 years and work with all kind of material on a daily basis (Arri, Red, Sony, Canon... all kind of logs) but this is way worse then any of them. I've tested with slightly under- or over exposing but its just in the material.  

Using a denoiser shows me excellent results but then I'm using Premiere Pro and a trial plug in.  Might try the other option for better footage. I know it's only a 1" sensor but I'm only getting this in dark areas and especially more with the ND filter. It feels like a software issue where it's being instructed to add noise no matter what the situation, i know that sounds silly, but I can't make sense of it. I spoke to a friend who  works in the industry  who has a Pro 2 and said he's experienced  the same issues....yet he plays with a Go Pro H9 and no problems (Obviously there's noise, but not in the same way). I'm even getting noise when it's overexposed by +2 and more.
2021-8-2
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AlexanderK
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b9y Posted at 8-2 08:13
Using a denoiser shows me excellent results but then I'm using Premiere Pro and a trial plug in.  Might try the other option for better footage. I know it's only a 1" sensor but I'm only getting this in dark areas and especially more with the ND filter. It feels like a software issue where it's being instructed to add noise no matter what the situation, i know that sounds silly, but I can't make sense of it. I spoke to a friend who  works in the industry  who has a Pro 2 and said he's experienced  the same issues....yet he plays with a Go Pro H9 and no problems (Obviously there's noise, but not in the same way). I'm even getting noise when it's overexposed by +2 and more.

Yeah I know. Resolve studio with noise reduction is fine. In Premiere I use Neat. But just like you I get massive noise in basic shots. Is it also a bit more on the sides in your shots? I'll try with other ND's soon. But compared to other footage this is the worst I've encountered.
2021-8-2
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b9y
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AlexanderK Posted at 8-2 22:56
Yeah I know. Resolve studio with noise reduction is fine. In Premiere I use Neat. But just like you I get massive noise in basic shots. Is it also a bit more on the sides in your shots? I'll try with other ND's soon. But compared to other footage this is the worst I've encountered.

DJI are going to have a lawsuit on their  hands I suspect. Class action, there's been talk of it  in some forums I've seen (although not recently). Did you know most of the footage used in the promo was denoised? Kinda  mad how they can get away with false advertising. I know I can't expect the world, but these inconsistent  issues really do make me feel like I've been duped.

And yes it's on the sides mainly. I also get a blurring effect mainly on the bottom left / right.

DJI just don't like to address it, I'll make sure they will, one day...somehow aha.
2021-8-3
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Geebax
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b9y Posted at 8-3 06:22
DJI are going to have a lawsuit on their  hands I suspect. Class action, there's been talk of it  in some forums I've seen (although not recently). Did you know most of the footage used in the promo was denoised? Kinda  mad how they can get away with false advertising. I know I can't expect the world, but these inconsistent  issues really do make me feel like I've been duped.

And yes it's on the sides mainly. I also get a blurring effect mainly on the bottom left / right.

I would love a dollar for every time someone on this forum threatened DJI with a law suit. You appear to be shooting in the UK where the light is as dull as dishwater, why you are using an ND filter I don't know.
2021-8-3
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b9y
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Geebax Posted at 8-3 15:03
I would love a dollar for every time someone on this forum threatened DJI with a law suit. You appear to be shooting in the UK where the light is as dull as dishwater, why you are using an ND filter I don't know.

So it's obvious you don't know what an ND filter is.
2021-8-4
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Huginn Kenningar
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Maybe it's my 1440p screen or just the YT bitrate/compression ripped away the noise (common thing when downsampling)... but I see no noticeable noise on that footage. Maybe at 100% or in a native 4K screen is noticeable, but I don't think you can expect a better performance from that tiny camera setup anyways.

It's a 1000€ flying camera, wich is about half the cost of an R6 and fourth the cost of an R5... and you get a flying gimbal that can fly up to 6.2Km and return that records 5.4K and shot decent 20MP pictures with nice dynamic range.

If you want more quality you need a bigger drone capable of wearing bigger cameras, like the inspire. Mavic 2 with its diaphragm will be also a better solution for videography that the Air2S, there's plenty of second hand ones anywhere, so It'll be the best solution till M3 comes out.
2021-8-4
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Geebax
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b9y Posted at 8-4 02:49
So it's obvious you don't know what an ND filter is.

I do actually, but you, like so many other keyboard warriors on here, make stupid assumptions like that all the time. I have been using electronic cameras since the early 60s.

But given you live in the UK, where the light levels are dreary at the best of times, I could safely say you do not need to use an ND filter for the vast majority of your flights.
2021-8-4
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b9y
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Geebax Posted at 8-4 15:13
I do actually, but you, like so many other keyboard warriors on here, make stupid assumptions like that all the time. I have been using electronic cameras since the early 60s.

But given you live in the UK, where the light levels are dreary at the best of times, I could safely say you do not need to use an ND filter for the vast majority of your flights.

And I can say you're hilariously wrong.


You do realise on a cloudy day, without an ND filter it shows roughly +3 exposure value right?

Watch my latest video, with an ND16 filter used.



You can talk the talk, but it's bull... mate.
2021-8-5
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b9y
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b9y Posted at 8-5 02:40
And I can say you're hilariously wrong.

Notice the clouds are still overexposed. Cheers.
2021-8-5
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b9y
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Huginn Kenningar Posted at 8-4 04:55
Maybe it's my 1440p screen or just the YT bitrate/compression ripped away the noise (common thing when downsampling)... but I see no noticeable noise on that footage. Maybe at 100% or in a native 4K screen is noticeable, but I don't think you can expect a better performance from that tiny camera setup anyways.

It's a 1000€ flying camera, wich is about half the cost of an R6 and fourth the cost of an R5... and you get a flying gimbal that can fly up to 6.2Km and return that records 5.4K and shot decent 20MP pictures with nice dynamic range.

There's a lot of noise 26 seconds in. Notice the fuzz on the left on the grassy mountain.
2021-8-5
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Geebax
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b9y Posted at 8-5 02:41
Notice the clouds are still overexposed. Cheers.

Why, can't you figure out how to adjust the exposure manually? Who is the fool now?
2021-8-5
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b9y
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Geebax Posted at 8-5 15:34
Why, can't you figure out how to adjust the exposure manually? Who is the fool now?

Exposure lock doesn't work for me, in my drone that DJI says is fine.

But you still haven't answered my reply about ND filters. SO tell me, expert, what are they for?
2021-8-6
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Geebax
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b9y Posted at 8-6 06:25
Exposure lock doesn't work for me, in my drone that DJI says is fine.

But you still haven't answered my reply about ND filters. SO tell me, expert, what are they for?

The most common reason to use ND filters is to reduce the light sufficiently to permit the shutter speed to be set to a slower setting, in order to permit frame blurring. That is done to mitigate the 'stuttering' effect on pans or scenes with high rates of relative movement of the camera with respect to the image.
2021-8-6
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b9y
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Geebax Posted at 8-6 14:29
The most common reason to use ND filters is to reduce the light sufficiently to permit the shutter speed to be set to a slower setting, in order to permit frame blurring. That is done to mitigate the 'stuttering' effect on pans or scenes with high rates of relative movement of the camera with respect to the image.

Mmmhmm. Yep. Well done. And yet you were questioning why I used an ND16 filter and it still showed overexposure by a large amount.
2021-8-6
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Geebax
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b9y Posted at 8-6 18:07
Mmmhmm. Yep. Well done. And yet you were questioning why I used an ND16 filter and it still showed overexposure by a large amount.

Like I said, learn to expose manually using the histogram and ETTR.
2021-8-6
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b9y
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Geebax Posted at 8-6 18:37
Like I said, learn to expose manually using the histogram and ETTR.

And that's impossible to do on a day that's bright enough to require ND filters.
2021-8-7
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Geebax
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b9y Posted at 8-7 06:09
And that's impossible to do on a day that's bright enough to require ND filters.

It shouldn't be, I do it all the time in lighting conditions far brighter than you are dealing with.
2021-8-7
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b9y
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Geebax Posted at 8-7 14:38
It shouldn't be, I do it all the time in lighting conditions far brighter than you are dealing with.

That can't be physically possible. Are you telling me, without ND filters on a bright day, with the 180 rule, it's not overexposed at all?
2021-8-7
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Geebax
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b9y Posted at 8-7 18:02
That can't be physically possible. Are you telling me, without ND filters on a bright day, with the 180 rule, it's not overexposed at all?

No, I use ND 16 and 32 in Australia, where the light is very much brighter than you are dealing with, and I use the histogram to adjust the aperture manually while I am flying.
2021-8-7
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b9y
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Geebax Posted at 8-7 19:25
No, I use ND 16 and 32 in Australia, where the light is very much brighter than you are dealing with, and I use the histogram to adjust the aperture manually while I am flying.

Apature on the Air2s is fixed. You really don't have a clue what you're on about.
2021-8-10
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Geebax
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b9y Posted at 8-10 06:39
Apature on the Air2s is fixed. You really don't have a clue what you're on about.

Stupid pommy twit, I did not say I use an Air 2S, my main drone is a Phantom 4 Pro, and it does have variable aperture.
2021-8-10
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b9y
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Geebax Posted at 8-10 14:43
Stupid pommy twit, I did not say I use an Air 2S, my main drone is a Phantom 4 Pro, and it does have variable aperture.

I'm a twit yet you're saying I don't need an ND filter and to change the aperture when you're on the wrong part of the forum. Be gone. Done here.
2021-8-11
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Geebax
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b9y Posted at 8-11 08:42
I'm a twit yet you're saying I don't need an ND filter and to change the aperture when you're on the wrong part of the forum. Be gone. Done here.

No, I am not on a the wrong part of the forum, I also own a P3 And a Mavic Pro. And as far as I know, all the DJI aircraft allow you to adjust exposure while in flight.
2021-8-11
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b9y
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Geebax Posted at 8-11 14:23
No, I am not on a the wrong part of the forum, I also own a P3 And a Mavic Pro. And as far as I know, all the DJI aircraft allow you to adjust exposure while in flight.

You are wrong, please shut up now.
2021-8-12
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Geebax
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b9y Posted at 8-12 07:05
You are wrong, please shut up now.

Try reading the manual, SFB.
2021-8-12
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AlexanderK
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b9y Posted at 8-12 07:05
You are wrong, please shut up now.

Okay please let it go and return to the subject.
Most other DJI drones have an adjustable aperture, the AIR2s doesn't. So if someone uses an other drone than the air2s and writes on this subforum 100% focused on the 2s it might help to mention that in a reply.
2021-8-12
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AlexanderK
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Geebax Posted at 8-11 14:23
No, I am not on a the wrong part of the forum, I also own a P3 And a Mavic Pro. And as far as I know, all the DJI aircraft allow you to adjust exposure while in flight.

This back and forth doesn't add anything informative to the subject, please stop.
This is however the sub-forum for the air2s. So if your experience is with other drones please mention that. Later on you did mention that but not initial, and I feel that's where the discussion started. On the Air2s there simply is no adjustable aperture. Other drones like my phantom 4 pro do have that, but even then I use ND's as a base but thats a personal pref.

On topic, I still have massive noise and my drone has a 'softer' corner on the right but after contacting DJI and my supplier I choose not to swap for another simply because it looks more like this is apparently what happens with this air2s. Lot of similar 'problems' and complaints.

In Resolve Studio the basic noise reduction helps and in Premiere I use Neat (created presets with effects that have the lut applied from dlog to rec709 and the neat noise reduction to save some time).
2021-8-12
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b9y Posted at 8-2 08:08
They said it was fine but I don't trust them.

Pan shot 26 seconds in, was taken with an ND8 filter:

The people who upload clean footage like this probably run through some denoiser in post.
2021-8-14
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b9y Posted at 8-3 06:22
DJI are going to have a lawsuit on their  hands I suspect. Class action, there's been talk of it  in some forums I've seen (although not recently). Did you know most of the footage used in the promo was denoised? Kinda  mad how they can get away with false advertising. I know I can't expect the world, but these inconsistent  issues really do make me feel like I've been duped.

And yes it's on the sides mainly. I also get a blurring effect mainly on the bottom left / right.

If you want less to no noise you need to get an M2P lol.  Air is a lower model than the M2P and to the Inspire 2.  To demand Inspire 2 clean footage of even M2P at Air 2S price is wrong imo.  Air 2S is not a successor to the M2P.  Just because it's DJIs newest released drone shouldn't cloud the fact it's sensor is not 1".

Even under low-light at that 0:26 vid you put, the M2P has some noise like that.
2021-8-14
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b9y
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AntDX316 Posted at 8-14 11:04
If you want less to no noise you need to get an M2P lol.  Air is a lower model than the M2P and to the Inspire 2.  To demand Inspire 2 clean footage of even M2P at Air 2S price is wrong imo.  Air 2S is not a successor to the M2P.  Just because it's DJIs newest released drone shouldn't cloud the fact it's sensor is not 1".

Even under low-light at that 0:26 vid you put, the M2P has some noise like that.

The sensor on the Air 2s is 1". And if the footage used noise removal software, then it's still false advertising.
2021-8-15
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b9y
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AlexanderK Posted at 8-12 21:46
This back and forth doesn't add anything informative to the subject, please stop.
This is however the sub-forum for the air2s. So if your experience is with other drones please mention that. Later on you did mention that but not initial, and I feel that's where the discussion started. On the Air2s there simply is no adjustable aperture. Other drones like my phantom 4 pro do have that, but even then I use ND's as a base but thats a personal pref.

From DJI:


"       
Steffen Sauer (Support)

Aug 13, 2021, 18:40 GMT+8

Dear Jack,

thank you for your further feedback.

My name is Steffen from the technical support department. Your case was forwarded to me in order to assist with the remaining technical questions.

The lens distortion, dark corners, dispersion is an objective physical phenomenon. So there will be a difference between the brightness of the lens corners and the brightness of the center of the lens. This difference will aggravate the noise after correction through the algorithm, our R & D team is constantly optimizing this algorithm to reduce the noise.

A ND filter is used in a strong light environment to reduce the amount of incoming light.
Then if camera is in a normal light or weak light environment, and the lens parameters are unchanged. We just add the ND filter, the noise will not increase.
But if Camera is overexposed , then the ND filter will reduce the amount of incoming light and then cause more noise after correction."
2021-8-15
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