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new Auto RTH making me nervous
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710 45 2021-11-9
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GaryDoug
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I wish there was a way to turn off the auto/smart RTH feature. I am not comfortable letting the M3 find its way back on its own without maintaining the RTH height setting. On my very first flight, during RTH it came very close to crashing into a ham radio antenna (about 65 ft high) in my neighbors yard while it was descending ahead of the HP. I am not sure it detected it as well as desired. I prefer to have the option to stay at the programmed height.
I will test the obstacle detection (down, front, back, side) on that antenna before doing any more flights.



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2021-11-9
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hallmark007
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you would need to test in lowlight because there will be a threshold for OA. Admittedly you would be taking a big risk. Unless you won’t fly in low light.
2021-11-9
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GaryDoug
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hallmark007 Posted at 11-9 15:38
you would need to test in dark or lowlight because there will be a threshold for OA. Admittedly you would be taking a big risk. Unless you won’t fly at night or in low light.

I just tried exactly that in almost total darkness here and no OA messages or alarms. I will try again tomorrow. Of course, at night it doesn't matter because they say it will do a standard RTH then.
2021-11-9
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djiuser_MmmtHkFaa90r
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Increase your return to home
height.
2021-11-9
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djiuser_MmmtHkFaa90r
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Increase your return to home height
2021-11-9
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GaryDoug
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djiuser_MmmtHkFaa90r Posted at 11-9 15:42
Increase your return to home
height.

That is the problem. It ignores that height in the daytime. It's only in effect at night if you can believe them. I witnessed 3 RTH operations today and not one ever settled at the programmed height. On two flights, it came back at the altitude it was at (under the setting) and decreased it farther as it neared the HP. On one flight the RTH started at well below the setting and later increased to well above that, then reduced again as it came home. It never settled at the RTH altitude.
2021-11-9
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djiuser_MmmtHkFaa90r
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GaryDoug Posted at 11-9 15:45
That is the problem. It ignores that height in the daytime. It's only in effect at night if you can believe them. I witnessed 3 RTH operations today and they all reduced altitude at some point when coming back and not one ever reached the programmed height

Thats really strange,I do not have an answer for that one.
2021-11-9
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Sean-bumble-bee
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I do not have an M3 and am unlikely to get an M3 but I did skim the manual when it was released. I was unnerved when I reached the RTH section and saw this mode.  I am left wondering what is the reasoning behind it.
In a way I am glad to see that others have similar thoughts
2021-11-9
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Cloudwalker
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So far the Advanced RTH has been great on mine and while it made me nervous the first few times it worked perfect. However I can understand where one might be concerned with a Ham antenna near by. I agree that the feature should be selectable by the pilot because he or she knows their surrounding area most the time.  
2021-11-9
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TonyPHX
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I am glad you explained this.  I have not had to experience this yet, but yes.  This seems like taking serious control away from the pilot at a time when the pilot most needs consistency and predictability.  I agree with you @Captain Doug.
2021-11-9
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Montfrooij
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Oh yes, this bothers me too.
I never trust auto features.
2021-11-11
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DJI Paladin
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Hi there. Thank you for reaching out. I will take this as suggestion of yours and will forward it to our desiganted team for attention. We will keep you posted once we have an update. Thank you.
2021-11-11
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amorrison
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If you initiate a RTH in sport mode, does it activate the sensors and return home, or climb and return home the old way?
2021-11-12
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The Saint
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my guess is oa turns on when auto rth kicks in.  another fix that should be coming in january.  people  like me who live in a flat flat area where 350 feet rth will 99% always work, i don't need no sticking advanced rth and would turn it off if i could.  please let us know how you go about testing this without the cringe.  i guess it would be a drone warranty claim if it hit that antenna but the potential damage to the infrastructure is not good.  how do you go about testing oa against that antenna?  i can't even bring myself to fly at a tree in the yard much less someone's property.
2021-11-12
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GaryDoug
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The Saint Posted at 11-12 08:25
my guess is oa turns on when auto rth kicks in.  another fix that should be coming in january.  people  like me who live in a flat flat area where 350 feet rth will 99% always work, i don't need no sticking advanced rth and would turn it off if i could.  please let us know how you go about testing this without the cringe.  i guess it would be a drone warranty claim if it hit that antenna but the potential damage to the infrastructure is not good.  how do you go about testing oa against that antenna?  i can't even bring myself to fly at a tree in the yard much less someone's property.

I did perform a simple test of the OA next to that antenna's cross bar and elements. It was not very good. The M3 came within 10 inches of the bar and/or elements when pointed directly at them at very slow speed. At RTH speed that could probably be too close...or it might stop earlier. But the side, top, and rear sensors were ineffective. Now RTH might not use those. But I did notice little effect from the bottom sensor also, so that is a concern.

BTW, the antenna is planned to be removed and possibly sold for scrap. So not a concern for me about damaging it.

2021-11-12
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The Saint
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GaryDoug Posted at 11-12 08:29
I did perform a simple test of the OA next to that antenna's cross bar and elements. It was not very good. The M3 came within 10 inches of the bar and/or elements when pointed directly at them at very slow speed. At RTH speed that could probably be too close...or it might stop earlier. But the side, top, and rear sensors were ineffective. Now RTH might not use those. But I did notice little effect from the bottom sensor also, so that is a concern.

BTW, the antenna is planned to be removed and possibly sold for scrap. So not a concern for me about damaging it.

ok thanks let us know what you find out if you do more testing.  hopefully we can get back that option in the next software update.
2021-11-12
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Lucas775
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That is calling for a lot of trouble by not descending straight down.  Hopefully this could be fix in the future by software updates.  
2021-11-12
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Niknik
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One good idea is to add a switch that will turn on or off the Advanced RTH
2021-11-12
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JJB*
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Hi Gary,

interesting...so i read the M3 manual. OMG, what a text about all various type of RTH.

But mey eyes on this, on page 18 bottom. In wich envirioment will it exit a FailSafe RTH ??So there is no connection RC<>drone, enters a Failsafe RTH and exit again.
After 5 coffees you got worried....
Cannot remember having read this in other manuals.


cheers
JJB

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2021-11-12
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GaryDoug
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JJB* Posted at 11-12 12:08
Hi Gary,

interesting...so i read the M3 manual. OMG, what a text about all various type of RTH.

One case I imagined even before buying it is when the drone flies into an area from which it cannot escape easily. Then if it senses objects all around, above, and below, it just stops.
2021-11-12
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Maxi3D
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Lucas775 Posted at 11-12 08:51
That is calling for a lot of trouble by not descending straight down.  Hopefully this could be fix in the future by software updates.

This is a feature, not a bug.
2021-11-12
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Maxi3D
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I negate all this by just fly the drone back myself. I am old school.
2021-11-12
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GaryDoug
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Maxi3D Posted at 11-12 12:35
I negate all this by just fly the drone back myself. I am old school.

Well that is fine until you have a signal loss and you lose communication. Then it will come back the way it wants regardless of what you want unless you are setup for something other than RTH. When that happens I will be trying to regain control quickly.
2021-11-12
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Lucas775
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GaryDoug Posted at 11-12 13:20
Well that is fine until you have a signal loss and you lose communication. Then it will come back the way it wants regardless of what you want unless you are setup for something other than RTH. When that happens I will be trying to regain control quickly.

Thank you.
2021-11-12
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amorrison
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The instruction manual seems to indicate that you can trigger an advanced RTH or a normal RTH. However it does not say how you might do that. I can't find any way to trigger a normal RTH.  Whatever mode you are in, once RTH is triggered sensors are active, and if sufficient light is available, advanced RTH is used. A possible work around may be to climb to a safer altitude before triggering RTH. I have lots of trees and other obstacles where I normally fly and almost never use RTH. I always fly back and land manually. However, I am concerned that we have no choice here between advanced and normal RTH. If you initiate RTH and the Mavic crashes, with the pilot having no real control, the fault would be DJI. Not sure how you could hold the pilot responsible.  DJI is putting a lot of faith in advanced RTH technology.
2021-11-13
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christangey
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Yep, I always take control of the aircraft after an RTH has been instigated. I don't care how good their AI/systems are only I can truly assess all the elements I'm dealing with.
2021-11-13
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Labroides
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amorrison Posted at 11-12 07:20
If you initiate a RTH in sport mode, does it activate the sensors and return home, or climb and return home the old way?

If you initiate RTH while flying in any mode, the drone exits the flight mode it is in and goes to RTH Mode.
2021-11-13
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GaryDoug
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amorrison Posted at 11-13 12:38
The instruction manual seems to indicate that you can trigger an advanced RTH or a normal RTH. However it does not say how you might do that. I can't find any way to trigger a normal RTH.  Whatever mode you are in, once RTH is triggered sensors are active, and if sufficient light is available, advanced RTH is used. A possible work around may be to climb to a safer altitude before triggering RTH. I have lots of trees and other obstacles where I normally fly and almost never use RTH. I always fly back and land manually. However, I am concerned that we have no choice here between advanced and normal RTH. If you initiate RTH and the Mavic crashes, with the pilot having no real control, the fault would be DJI. Not sure how you could hold the pilot responsible.  DJI is putting a lot of faith in advanced RTH technology.

I believe what they mean is that the method will be different for day and night, so it could be either. Depending on the light available it will use one of those methods.
2021-11-13
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hallmark007
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christangey Posted at 11-13 15:05
Yep, I always take control of the aircraft after an RTH has been instigated. I don't care how good their AI/systems are only I can truly assess all the elements I'm dealing with.

Why would you initiate RTH if you are in control, Rth only initiates itself when it thinks pilot is not in control.
2021-11-14
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SilverWing
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hallmark007 Posted at 11-14 01:15
Why would you initiate RTH if you are in control, Rth only initiates itself when it thinks pilot is not in control.

Sometimes people will do this to let the drone orient itself exactly straight back to the home point before cancelling RTH and pitching forward - though I normally just look at the map and aim the drone myself.
2021-11-21
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hallmark007
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SilverWing Posted at 11-21 12:27
Sometimes people will do this to let the drone orient itself exactly straight back to the home point before cancelling RTH and pitching forward - though I normally just look at the map and aim the drone myself.

That wasn’t my point, if your in control you won’t be in more control if you hit RTH , its then the aircraft is in control. You cannot have it both ways. If you don’t know the heading of your Craft you’re not in control.
2021-11-21
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SilverWing
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Well you asked, I answered.  If you initiated RTH while you're in control, you obviously had a reason; for some people, that is the reason.  If you initiated RTH while not in control, well... that's an oxymoron so I won't answer that.
2021-11-21
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hallmark007
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SilverWing Posted at 11-21 12:40
Well you asked, I answered.  If you initiated RTH while you're in control, you obviously had a reason; for some people, that is the reason.  If you initiated RTH while not in control, well... that's an oxymoron so I won't answer that.

Think about what you said. Initiate RTH to find the heading of the craft. If you don’t know the heading of the craft you’re not in control . That’s basic…
2021-11-21
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Ex Machina
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JJB* Posted at 11-12 12:08
Hi Gary,

interesting...so i read the M3 manual. OMG, what a text about all various type of RTH.

Guess we need to know under which environments failsafe RTH might not operate. First one coming to mind is one in which GPS lock is lost. Another might be magnetic field anomaly that futzes with the onboard compasses?
2021-11-21
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GaryDoug
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hallmark007 Posted at 11-21 13:05
Think about what you said. Initiate RTH to find the heading of the craft. If you don’t know the heading of the craft you’re not in control . That’s basic…

He was just saying that the user could use RTH as a shortcut to point the drone directly back to the HP, then cancel RTH and resume manual control (forward right stick).
2021-11-21
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hallmark007
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GaryDoug Posted at 11-21 14:07
He was just saying that the user could use RTH as a shortcut to point the drone directly back to the HP, then cancel RTH and resume manual control (forward right stick).

“ I don't care how good their AI/systems are only I can truly assess all the elements I'm dealing with.”

So above is initial post after initiating RTH. My simple point is if you don’t know which way your craft is flying at the point before you initiate RTH, then at that time you’re not in control. Unless you’ve lost full telemetry they’re are at least 3 indicators to tell you which way the craft is flying without hitting RTH,  so the author of the post doesn’t trust craft AI but to simply know which way his craft is heading he opts for the the craft AI, which almost beggars belief after he says “I don’t care how good AI/Systems are but his first choice is to chose out of 4 different options the one he doesn’t trust. Maybe you can make sense out of this. But for me it makes very little.
2021-11-21
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Grimtheviking
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Any concerns, Just cancel RTH on approach and fly in and land manually.
2021-11-21
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SilverWing
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hallmark007 Posted at 11-21 13:05
Think about what you said. Initiate RTH to find the heading of the craft. If you don’t know the heading of the craft you’re not in control . That’s basic…

What I said was not to "find the heading of the craft", but to let it orient itself exactly.  This can be advantageous when battery is at a premium and being off by a few degrees will result a longer path back.

And as far as "that's basic" goes, if you have no control of the craft, manual RTH is impossible, since it's a command and I was obviously not talking about an auto-RTH but a user-initiated one.  You seem to be confusing 'situational awareness' with control.
2021-11-26
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hallmark007
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SilverWing Posted at 11-26 14:59
What I said was not to "find the heading of the craft", but to let it orient itself exactly.  This can be advantageous when battery is at a premium and being off by a few degrees will result a longer path back.

And as far as "that's basic" goes, if you have no control of the craft, manual RTH is impossible, since it's a command and I was obviously not talking about an auto-RTH but a user-initiated one.  You seem to be confusing 'situational awareness' with control.

No I’m not, there are other options you can use to see if your craft is on the right and the track you want it to be on without hitting Rth , hitting Rth won’t save battery or keep it at a premium, in fact it will most likely use more battery. If you cannot see the craft one option is gone, but you have a map with perfect trace line which will require you to do a quick yaw and you will clearly see your craft perfectly aligned with the direct path to homepoint. I’m not sure how Rth preforms any better than this and this shows complete control of the pilot. You can dress up Rth anyway you like but once you press Rth you are “No Longer In Control” until you take back control.
2021-11-26
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GaryDoug Posted at 11-9 15:45
That is the problem. It ignores that height in the daytime. It's only in effect at night if you can believe them. I witnessed 3 RTH operations today and not one ever settled at the programmed height. On two flights, it came back at the altitude it was at (under the setting) and decreased it farther as it neared the HP. On one flight the RTH started at well below the setting and later increased to well above that, then reduced again as it came home. It never settled at the RTH altitude.

This problem occurred again yesterday for me where after pressing RTH it went up to 390 feet and wouldn't respond when I tried to pull the left stick down even though the RTH was set to 170 feet.  The tallest object in the area is 150 feet and so there was no need to rise to 390 feet.
2021-11-27
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