Labroides Posted at 1-27 12:27
Do we know if the "cache" is built entirely internally from acquisition data?  or does "cache" pull  data over the air?  Might be easy enough to test by sticking device in airplane mode, but I was wondering if some data was dependent on over-the-air connection (I hope not).

All GPS data comes "over the air" but it has nothing to do with your phone or tablet so putting that into airplane mode won't make any difference.

Thanks Labroides.  I can't do any testing now anyways, watching snow fall rather heavily.

Mobilehomer Posted at 1-27 12:24
Actually the white bars are for RC connection strength. The GPS indicator uses color and number.

If you check what I wrote it was in reply to Kaylami talking about Go4 app, where the GPS signal is measured in white bars and the menu explains this. Anyone who has used go or go4 would always use this graph to measure GPS.

“The bars do represent the signal and 3 white bars you were in opti mode 4/5 gps good to fly.“

There is no mention of opti in fly app.

hallmark007 Posted at 1-27 12:32
If you check what I wrote it was in reply to Kaylami talking about Go4 app, where the GPS signal is measured in white bars and the menu explains this. Anyone who has used go or go4 would always use this graph to measure GPS.

“The bars do represent the signal and 3 white bars you were in opti mode 4/5 gps good to fly.“

Sorry, I read the post and missed the Go 4 reference, ALL my experience is with the Fly app.

Charles Adams Posted at 1-27 12:32
Thanks Labroides.  I can't do any testing now anyways, watching snow fall rather heavily.

I did turn WIFI off on my RC Pro then restarted it. It picked up the GPS pretty quick.

Mobilehomer Posted at 1-27 12:38
Sorry, I read the post and missed the Go 4 reference, ALL my experience is with the Fly app.

No problem, when I started using fly first I kept confusing signal between RC and GPS when flying.

Labroides Posted at 1-27 12:19
For about the hundredth time, there is no magic number of sats.
And you do have a way to tell if the flight controller has determined that location data is reliable and has recorded a home point.
Watch the colour of the GPS icon on your screen.

I am not trying to argue your points.

All I'm saying is, according to my observations, in RC Pro, the two-digits number next to the satellite icon starts as 0..2 and both icon and number are colored red.

As the time passes, the number eventually reaches 8 ( magic 8 ball? 8 monkeys? don't know, don't care ), both the icon and the number change color to yellow, and at this point in time, I'll be getting a message that takeoff is permitted.
If I do take off (which I usually do), I will be only allowed to fly limited altitude.
Home point is not set at this point.

Finally, with more time, both icon and number turn white and the audible message says the home point has been updated.  
From here on, my altitude is only limited to my other settings and RTH would work.

THAT LAST STEP ALWAYS HAPPENS FOR ME WHEN THE NUMBER REACHES 12.
Not 11, not 10, not anything else.
12.  Dozen.

I don't know the true meaning of this number, and while I'm curious, I don't really care what it is.
All I know is that, ACCORDING TO MY EXPERIENCE, until that number reaches 12, I most likely will not be able to have an HP lock.
And without HP lock flying would be, FOR ME, unadvisable, unless I'm flying low/locally around a person/bush and don't really need the HP lock.

So, I use this number as some sort of a strength gauge which allows me to see if I can fly or not. Color white serves the same purpose.

Grimtheviking Posted at 1-27 04:45
Hi Mindy, Uploaded 20mins ago.

Thank you very much for providing the log for our analysis. We believe it will help a lot to solve this issue. Thanks again for your cooperation.

Suren Posted at 1-27 10:12
I will provide a log this afternoon when I get home.

Thank you very much for being willing to provide the log for our analysis. If it's convenient, we hope you can describe the issue in detail such as how long does it take and how many satellites it acquire so that we can forward it to our engineer for further check.

DarthSLR Posted at 1-27 13:42
I am not trying to argue your points.

All I'm saying is, according to my observations, in RC Pro, the two-digits number next to the satellite icon starts as 0..2 and both icon and number are colored red.

... what Labroides explains here is absolutely fine!

If this "damn" delay in the GPS acquisition of the Mavic 3 did not occur, it would also almost not matter which color is displayed for which SAT number...

But from the point of view of a Mavic 3 owner, it is almost unbearable that the expensive drone is much worse than, say, the Mavic Air 2. There have never been such problems.

And, DJI should finally comment on this and explain very clearly what is currently the cause of these problems and whether there will be a remedy for it!!!
The current situation, the lack of clarity about the causes, originally it was much, much better in this respect, it can't stay like this!!!

DarthSLR Posted at 1-27 13:42
I am not trying to argue your points.

All I'm saying is, according to my observations, in RC Pro, the two-digits number next to the satellite icon starts as 0..2 and both icon and number are colored red.

Hi,

On my DJI drones the number of satellites is never a fixed number when the GPS icon change colour red to amber. Seen it changes to amber with 8, 9 and higher numbers.
Same for setting HP (icon amber to white) , sometimes 9, other flight/location 11 or even 15....
It all depends in wich sequence wich satellites are received, if by chance all the first receiving sats are grouped together you will need more of them to set HP.

cheers
JJB

JJB* Posted at 1-28 00:40
Hi,

On my DJI drones the number of satellites is never a fixed number when the GPS icon change colour red to amber. Seen it changes to amber with 8, 9 and higher numbers.

That makes sense and good explanation. Thanks JJB* Wow have I learned a lot here about sats. Copied and pasted all of it in to one document and rereading it so it sticks. Also thanks to all of you who have contributed here about this issue.

DJI Mindy Posted at 1-28 00:00
Thank you very much for providing the log for our analysis. We believe it will help a lot to solve this issue. Thanks again for your cooperation.

No problem Mindy, any time I can help.
Lets hope your team can put this one right for us that have the issue.

NGC Posted at 1-28 05:31
You know what's insulting Mindy? Getting this as a response to the satellite issues.

[view_image]

... this statement refers at best to connection problems, but not to GPS reception performance!

Please don't mix things up!

... it would be helpful to know what the question to DJI was!

DJI Mindy Posted at 1-28 00:03
Thank you very much for being willing to provide the log for our analysis. If it's convenient, we hope you can describe the issue in detail such as how long does it take and how many satellites it acquire so that we can forward it to our engineer for further check.

SO far since my reply the drone has been able to acquire sats with a minute and half to 2 minutes. This is still a long time. I am going to try today again but was hoping my Osmo pocket would arrive so I could video the area I take off from.

JJB* Posted at 1-28 00:40
Hi,

On my DJI drones the number of satellites is never a fixed number when the GPS icon change colour red to amber. Seen it changes to amber with 8, 9 and higher numbers.

I can fully agree with this concept as yesterday I waited for sats and to my surprise the drone recorded homeport with 10 sats, normally I have to wait for 12 or 13 before it records HP. I took off and flew but always hover at around 8 meters and check some preflight it dropped to 8 sats and reported weak GPS.

NGC Posted at 1-28 05:19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbqz1hG8tDg

Great example of the problem.

That is sorely too long.

frankymusik Posted at 1-28 05:48
... this statement refers at best to connection problems, but not to GPS reception performance!

Please don't mix things up!

That reply is from “Santa” that’s the worrying part of that reply.

this is exactly why we took the gps meaning out of mobile phones and for so many years, played down the meaning of "bars" when it comes to the cellular signal.  it just isn't possible to reasonably display a relevant representation to the layperson.  any attempts to go mainstream would only cause confusion, drive support calls, etc.  i know you can download an app and get what you need but 95% of the people don't need or don't want this.  for our drones, this should be made "friendly" and then tucked away under an advanced menu.  for obvious reasons.

Five pages of complaining and not a lot of insight. We need some constructive discussion. There is definitely something different but without some digging, we're not going to get very far. I am not holding my breath for DJI to explain this. In the meantime, I've proposed some ways in which we can investigate this further here:

https://mavicpilots.com/threads/ ... tive-thread.121815/

Directly to DJI, I would ask the following:

1. Why have you not implemented A-GPS and when will you implement it?
2. What is the underlying GNSS hardware? Which GNSS chip? Which antenna?
3. What is causing the delays? Being transparent goes a long way. Try it.

ianwood Posted at 1-28 13:39
Five pages of complaining and not a lot of insight. We need some constructive discussion. There is definitely something different but without some digging, we're not going to get very far. I am not holding my breath for DJI to explain this. In the meantime, I've proposed some ways in which we can investigate this further here:

https://mavicpilots.com/threads/the-big-gnss-gps-issue-the-constructive-thread.121815/

I could NOT agree more.  There are extremely seasoned DJI pilots out there that are all complaining about very REAL issues acquiring satellites on this Mavic 3 drone.    There is something wrong and I sure as heck hope it is something that can be rectified by firmware, but I do have my concerns if DJI doesn't even acknowledge this is an issue.

I have had DJI drones all the way along:  Phantom 3 Pro, Mavic Pro, Mavic 2 Pro, Mavic Mini 2, and now the Mavic 3.

I sold my Mavic Pro years ago and I just sold my Phantom 3 Pro.  However, I did extensive testing on the Phantom 3 Pro before selling and even it (that has been boxed for a couple years) acquired enough satellites within about 30-45 secs (max).   

I literally fly a lot right from my large 'landing pad' driveway.   I have updated the Mavic 3 to the firmware that just came out on 1/24/22 and I still have trouble acquiring enough satellites in what anyone would consider a reasonable amount of time (and, yes, I calibrated my IMU, my compass, and my gimbal after the firmware update as I always do).  I  take off from the same spot on the driveway every day I fly, so location is exactly the same.   Upon first bootup, I timed it and it took over 3-1/2 minutes before I acquired 12 sats with the Mavic 3!   Now, if I turn off the drone and turn it back on, it does acquire MUCH quicker (i.e within 20-30secs).   However, I just flew this thing yesterday.  I go out today, and power it on and the 'cache' everyone is speaking about must not be doing a thing because I just told you it took well over 3-1/2 minutes to acquire a satellite.

As an experiment, I turned on my $400 Mini 2 and I had 14 satellites in like 20 seconds and I haven't flown that drone in over a week.

For giggles, I also tried my Mavic 2 Pro, which hasn't been out for months, and it acquired 13 sats in about 30 seconds.

THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG!   If it ends up being hardware, I will hold DJI responsible here and they owe many of us a new drone with new hardware if this cannot be rectified in firmware.  My goodness, this is like having the first portable car GPS systems that used to take 3-5 minutes to acquire satellites...that is insane.

I know technically speaking that it shouldn't matter that they switched from GLONASS to the Chinese sats, but come on....this is a very fundamental (and realistically CRITICAL) safety and operating requirement of these drones and is NOT new technology; and the main thing everyone can point to is that using Chinese sats is one of the biggest differences....this most likely means different chipset inside, etc.

I hope to heck we didn't spend $2,000 on a piece of equipment that has inferior GPS logic/asics compared to their $400 mini 2!

NGC Posted at 1-28 13:53
DJI ain’t gonna say squat. They won’t even acknowledge this issue more than “point your antennas at the drone” which is hilariously insulting.

Which is why, if you look at the link I posted above, we should see what we can do until DJI does something.

ianwood Posted at 1-28 13:39
Five pages of complaining and not a lot of insight. We need some constructive discussion. There is definitely something different but without some digging, we're not going to get very far. I am not holding my breath for DJI to explain this. In the meantime, I've proposed some ways in which we can investigate this further here:

https://mavicpilots.com/threads/the-big-gnss-gps-issue-the-constructive-thread.121815/

I like your approach. You might as well make the same post here in addition to mavicpilots…

Mavic 3 Raptor Posted at 1-28 14:16
I could NOT agree more.  There are extremely seasoned DJI pilots out there that are all complaining about very REAL issues acquiring satellites on this Mavic 3 drone.    There is something wrong and I sure as heck hope it is something that can be rectified by firmware, but I do have my concerns if DJI doesn't even acknowledge this is an issue.

I have had DJI drones all the way along:  Phantom 3 Pro, Mavic Pro, Mavic 2 Pro, Mavic Mini 2, and now the Mavic 3.

i understand your frustration but in the end, it's just a product and your product has a warranty.  i am big advocate of drones not being singled out and treated any differently than a cellphone or a camera or a computer and this issue is not different.  bottom line, if you have a drone with a manufacturers defect and you have a valid warranty intact, you have some legal recourse.  however, if you believe there is a safety issue, there are other ways to help go down the "recall" route.  ultimately it appears to be a sensitive issue with dji which probably means you're not going to have a lot of luck getting them to admit to anything.  instead, the best remedy is for dji to just to fix the issue.
personally i want this to work out so i can buy the m3 by this spring.  i appreciate the work everyone is going thru to make this drone better.

ianwood Posted at 1-28 13:39
Five pages of complaining and not a lot of insight. We need some constructive discussion. There is definitely something different but without some digging, we're not going to get very far. I am not holding my breath for DJI to explain this. In the meantime, I've proposed some ways in which we can investigate this further here:

https://mavicpilots.com/threads/the-big-gnss-gps-issue-the-constructive-thread.121815/

They are very much aware of it and have posted about it here.

The feeling for many here is that this only occurred from FW introduced in December. Which would mean the GPS unit in the drone was working fine and also there is no problem between Glonass and Beidou.


So DJI Mindy is the main moderator on the forum here. And usually when she says she’s forwarded the problem she has.

NGC Posted at 1-28 14:22
You can’t do anything really unless you somehow magically can access the firmware and figure out the exact problem code and fix it and create a new firmware package which can be installed somehow onto their system.

Probably it is much easier to complain a lot to DJI and try to force them to acknowledge that there is an issue.

Actually, I have identified 4 different things that can be done and could each make a difference. One is to complain loudly to DJI but instead of just saying "it's a dumpster fire" we can petition them with a solution like A-GPS.

Mavic 3 Raptor Posted at 1-28 14:16
I could NOT agree more.  There are extremely seasoned DJI pilots out there that are all complaining about very REAL issues acquiring satellites on this Mavic 3 drone.    There is something wrong and I sure as heck hope it is something that can be rectified by firmware, but I do have my concerns if DJI doesn't even acknowledge this is an issue.

I have had DJI drones all the way along:  Phantom 3 Pro, Mavic Pro, Mavic 2 Pro, Mavic Mini 2, and now the Mavic 3.

So how do you figure it not being a problem on release ? Many certainly around here say it arrived with FW. Update in December which would cancel it being a hardware problem. Some have said it has got worse since new FW. So according the bulk of people on this forum its a SW FW problem. And that’s the only good news.

ianwood Posted at 1-28 14:48
Actually, I have identified 4 different things that can be done and could each make a difference. One is to complain loudly to DJI but instead of just saying "it's a dumpster fire" we can petition them with a solution like A-GPS.

A-GPS requires cell connection. Not too many people going to pay for an extra line just to fly., It has something to do with GPS cache flushing upon shutdown.

NGC Posted at 1-28 16:08
Not necessarily has to do with cache after shutdown. You can shut down and swap batteries and it fixes a home point quickly.
I wouldn’t presume to know what the problem is so don’t say that with such certitude.

According to my research of the last several days, the cache should last for quite a while. At the very least overnight. Probably a lot longer. My RC Pro just acquired in about 2 minutes, inside my house.