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Is the Mavic 3 shooting 8 bit or 10 bit video?
4125 19 1-9 13:36
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Joe Dawson
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I have managed to download some RAW LOG Apple ProRes video files that people who have Mavic 3s have posted to the internet.  And while they look lovely I was disappointed to see that they are shot in Rec 709 (8 bit HDTV colour space) and not shot in Rec 2020 (10 bit ULTRA HDR colour space).  This means the maximum saturation and contrast ranges in the video are as limited as they have been since the first Mavic Pro V1.

Also the LUT files DJI has published for the Mavic 3 are also Rec 709 files.  With so many cell phones now shooting HDR video and able to shoot in the full Rec 2020 colour space it was very disappointing to see this amazing new drone is not able to shoot HDR video.  

Is this a limitation of the current firmware or should I assume that this is a hardware limitation of the drone?

NOTE: Adding information just received from DJI. Sadly the Mavic 3 is not able to do HDR video like the iPhone 13 or other new cameras.  For such an expensive drone this is very unforunate.
  
This conflicts with DJI's own marketing material that says "One billion colors captured by the 10-bit Dlog-M color profile" If you are only capturing 8 bits of colours and not doing HDR you can't capture 1 billion colours.  That requires full HDR support to do 1 billion colors.





DJI-Support-DJISupport-has-sent-you-a-Direct-Message-on-Twitter-jdawson-nf-gmail.png


1-9 13:36
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Goran_m_pg
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Well here is the info on file in H.265 format 10 bit.
As you see it is BT.709 and i did noticed that it is hard to color grade like when you want to lower luminance of sky (blue), and my Sony A7S III have almost RAW-like look if you do this, while with mavic 3 it does behave as it is 8 bit even thou it say 10 bit.... have no idea why is that :/
I would like someone to give me some explanation.


Format                      : MPEG-4
Format profile              : Base Media
Codec ID                    : isom (isom/iso2/mp41)
File size                   : 206 MiB
Duration                    : 10 s 520 ms
Overall bit rate            : 164 Mb/s
Encoded date                : UTC 2022-01-09 16:05:38
Tagged date                 : UTC 2022-01-09 16:05:38
Writing application         : DJIMavic3
Cover                       : Yes
snal                        : (Binary)

Video
ID                          : 1
Format                      : HEVC
Format/Info                 : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile              : Main 10@L6@Main
Codec ID                    : hvc1
Codec ID/Info               : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration                    : 10 s 520 ms
Bit rate                    : 162 Mb/s
Width                       : 5 120 pixels
Height                      : 2 700 pixels
Display aspect ratio        : 1.896
Frame rate mode             : Constant
Frame rate                  : 50.000 FPS
Color space                 : YUV
Chroma subsampling          : 4:2:0
Bit depth                   : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)          : 0.234
Stream size                 : 203 MiB (99%)
Encoded date                : UTC 2022-01-09 16:05:38
Tagged date                 : UTC 2022-01-09 16:05:38
Color range                 : Limited
Color primaries             : BT.709
Transfer characteristics    : BT.709
Matrix coefficients         : BT.709
Codec configuration box     : hvcC

Other #1
Type                        : meta
Duration                    : 10 s 520 ms
Bit rate mode               : Variable
Default                     : No

Other #2
Type                        : dbgi
Duration                    : 10 s 520 ms
Bit rate mode               : Variable
Default                     : No
1-9 13:47
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Joe Dawson
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Goran_m_pg Posted at 1-9 13:47
Well here is the info on file in H.265 format 10 bit.
As you see it is BT.709 and i did noticed that it is hard to color grade like when you want to lower luminance of sky (blue), and my Sony A7S III have almost RAW-like look if you do this, while with mavic 3 it does behave as it is 8 bit even thou it say 10 bit.... have no idea why is that :/
I would like someone to give me some explanation.

Yes but the BT.709 means that none of the colour values are beyond 8 bit.  So it is a 10 bit file that contains 8 bit data.

None of the files are beyond 600 nits and none of the colours are beyond the 709 or 8 bit colour space.  So while it is good it is not really HDR or 10 bit video.

So it is still working in the same colour space as the Mavic Pro V1.  It is not working in 10 bit colour and contrast ranges like an iPhone 13 or other cameras that do true 10 bit colour.

But maybe that will change in a new firmware.
1-9 16:26
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Goran_m_pg
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WTF, is there DJI Support to confirm this?
1-10 00:35
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Joe Dawson
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Goran_m_pg Posted at 1-10 00:35
WTF, is there DJI Support to confirm this?

I have asked DJI Support about this but haven't received anything yet.  I will update you if they tell me something.  I have inspected a video someone else posted a raw Apple ProRes file to the internet.  When I looked at it it was obvious the colour space didn't exist outside the standard definition 709.  And the only LUTs file DJI provides is a 709 LUTs so again not high dynamic range just standard.

So having a HDR mode that operates still within the standard definition mode is not what I call HDR.  It is a simulated HDR with just boosting up the dark areas and saturations but not showing the full HDR spectrum.  

I was thinking as a 10 bit camera we would be looking at true HDR at this point.

1-10 03:39
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following.
1-10 03:46
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I will do a test with proper H.265 10 bit footage (A7SIII)  VS Mavic 3 H.265 10 bit footage, both LOG, and both graded just to see the difference and confirm this issue since on some pages i see that BT.709 can be 10 bit also.

If this turns out to be true, that DJI advertise drone to be 10 bit when actually it is 8 bit, I would be extremely, not only disappointed, but i will start to think that they are not having knowledge for video industry just for blind specs to sell there products.
1-10 04:52
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Joe Dawson
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Well DJI just send me an answer.

"Hi Joseph, thank you for getting back, Mavic 3 does not support HDR video recording. It supports D-log while shooting video. And it supports 10 bit (D-Log mode for recording), and 8 bit (Normal color mode for recording). Hope this is informative for you."

1-10 05:45
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Goran_m_pg
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HDR its true, its not currently supported.
Normal mode is 8 bit
LOG mode is 10 bit but BT.709 color as i pasted from my file.

They dont go in deep, they just read you the drone specs
1-10 05:55
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Goran_m_pg
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Ok first i need to update this topic. What happened is that Joe Dawson had no knowledge regarding this subject and posted this topic which  made me confused.
He posted this subject on facebook claiming DJI told him that drone is 8 bit color compiled in 10bit encoder, even posted a screenshot that he stated his claim of where DJI say clearly that standard color profile is 8bit and D-log is 10 bit but he understood that completely wrong and continued to push his theory.  To bad that post is deleted but there were a lot of people providing argument that what he is comparing is color space not bit depth and so on and so on... to make things short, MAVIC 3 is 10 bit and here is one comparison that i did that proves that.


Tested 10 bit A7S III footage VS 8 bit of the same camera just to see what is difference and how to recognize it, and then added MAVIC 3 D-log in comparison, that shows almost same result as A7S III 10 bit, so to conclude this, 10 BIT all round   

1-13 14:15
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Joe Dawson
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Goran_m_pg Posted at 1-13 14:15
Ok first i need to update this topic. What happened is that Joe Dawson had no knowledge regarding this subject and posted this topic which  made me confused.
He posted this subject on facebook claiming DJI told him that drone is 8 bit color compiled in 10bit encoder, even posted a screenshot that he stated his claim of where DJI say clearly that standard color profile is 8bit and D-log is 10 bit but he understood that completely wrong and continued to push his theory.  To bad that post is deleted but there were a lot of people providing argument that what he is comparing is color space not bit depth and so on and so on... to make things short, MAVIC 3 is 10 bit and here is one comparison that i did that proves that.

Thanks for helping make the point..

A Sony camera as yours can shoot full 10 bit HDR video.


The mavic 3 can not.

Yes you can as you have done take HDR video and place it in standard dynamic range and it looks the same as a Mavic 3.  But the dynamic range of the sony is much better than the Mavic if you know how to place the Sony in HDR mode.

1-13 14:29
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Geo_Drone
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Color range                 : Limited
Are you sure is "Limited" in H265 LOG? Or just in Normal Profile? Because if it is, than is a big problem...Even if you have a 10bit profile at recording, in REC709 format the color range is compressed to R709 only, so will be banding in scenes with sunset/sunrise.
Also is strange that DJI does not have implemented in this case BT.2020 (Rec.2020) as this is a "must have" in a new drone...Perhaps is "work in progress".
1-14 02:52
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Joe Dawson
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Geo_Drone Posted at 1-14 02:52
Color range                 : Limited
Are you sure is "Limited" in H265 LOG? Or just in Normal Profile? Because if it is, than is a big problem...Even if you have a 10bit profile at recording, in REC709 format the color range is compressed to R709 only, so will be banding in scenes with sunset/sunrise.
Also is strange that DJI does not have implemented in this case BT.2020 (Rec.2020) as this is a "must have" in a new drone...Perhaps is "work in progress".

None of DJI drones up to this point have been able to shoot true HDR and I thought this one would but it can not.  If you don't need HDR or don't plan to display your videos on a system able to do HDR this drone will be able to do what you want.
1-14 03:39
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Joe Dawson Posted at 1-14 03:39
None of DJI drones up to this point have been able to shoot true HDR and I thought this one would but it can not.  If you don't need HDR or don't plan to display your videos on a system able to do HDR this drone will be able to do what you want.

Nasty...HDR format and ST/HLG profile is a true beast...And with all new LED and OLED TV's that can manage at least 500 nits (some Oleds already manage 1100 nits), is a waste not to have it...
1-14 04:03
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Joe Dawson
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Geo_Drone Posted at 1-14 04:03
Nasty...HDR format and ST/HLG profile is a true beast...And with all new LED and OLED TV's that can manage at least 500 nits (some Oleds already manage 1100 nits), is a waste not to have it...

This is the information I have from DJI.

1-14 04:23
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Geo_Drone
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Joe Dawson Posted at 1-14 04:23
This is the information I have from DJI.
[view_image]

10 bit LOG is enough to make it "HDR like" in post...the problem is if the 10bit LOG format uses the REC709 color profile that is Limited. Even without HDR, they could use Full color profile at encoding, and would be capable to simulate a nice "HDR like" scene...
But that Limited color is very strange for a 10bit profile. Even at Autel, without HDR enabled, the color profile in A-LOG 10 bit is 4:2:0 Full color, ST...and is 2 years old...
So...maybe needs an update for Full color profile as HEVC codec is capable in 10bit of FULL color profile encoding, but perhaps is not yet implemented in M3.
This is why I have asked you IF that specs are from LOG...but is 10bit, so is clearly LOG, but without proper Color Profile encoded.
1-14 05:01
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Joe Dawson
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Geo_Drone Posted at 1-14 05:01
10 bit LOG is enough to make it "HDR like" in post...the problem is if the 10bit LOG format uses the REC709 color profile that is Limited. Even without HDR, they could use Full color profile at encoding, and would be capable to simulate a nice "HDR like" scene...
But that Limited color is very strange for a 10bit profile. Even at Autel, without HDR enabled, the color profile in A-LOG 10 bit is 4:2:0 Full color, ST...and is 2 years old...
So...maybe needs an update for Full color profile as HEVC codec is capable in 10bit of FULL color profile encoding, but perhaps is not yet implemented in M3.

Yes if your ok with simulated HDR that is fine.

It is a shame now that we have iPhones and Sony a7R III that shot and generate HDR files with 2000 nits of brightness in them out of the device that we didn't see that in the Mavic 3.  Maybe the Mavic 4.
1-14 05:10
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Geo_Drone
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Joe Dawson Posted at 1-14 05:10
Yes if your ok with simulated HDR that is fine.

It is a shame now that we have iPhones and Sony a7R III that shot and generate HDR files with 2000 nits of brightness in them out of the device that we didn't see that in the Mavic 3.  Maybe the Mavic 4.

Well, at least NOW is not supported...Depending on hardware (i don't know what sensor they have), it can be a feature implemented in 4K later...but depends of sensor capabilities.
1-14 05:55
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1-14 07:37
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I can't understand how DJI talks about 1 billion colours if it only supports REC 709. They are lying!!!! Rec 709 is limited to 7 stops of Dynamic Range and 8 bit color gamma... They would need BT.2020 for this...

Mavic 3 sensor can capture 10 bit & 1 billion colours but they can't record it (because of REC 709) ?

I'm almost sure that DJI can be sued because of their wrong specs and information omission.

I won't upgrade until DJI have a BT.2020 drone capable of 1 billion Colors and 10 bit RECORDING...
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