Did some interesting tests flying the Mavic 3 into headwinds this week to establish if the spec'd 19 m/s max speed is based on ground speed or air speed.
Some good results with a little bit of tech stuff at the end!  But this helps explain why the Mavic 3 really is so impressive in strong wind

Cheers, Ian

Sorry to hear about your gym,    Fairstead must have had it hard too,   the MIL in Maldon lost a little bit go her roof,  we just lost a few fences.

Thanks for posting Ian it was obvious if you owned both that M3 easily out preformed Air2s. Great test .

The bigger question is why performance of the Air 2S failed to live up to its specs.

I'd be interested to see flight data from a couple of other Air 2S to confirm whether the poor performance is widespread.

Labroides Posted at 2-27 05:33
The bigger question is why performance of the Air 2S failed to live up to its specs.

I'd be interested to see flight data from a couple of other Air 2S to confirm whether the poor performance is widespread.

It was extremely windy last week and I think the Air 2S' performance was good, but not as good as the Mavic 3...  Last year, pre Mavic 3, it performed very well compared to the 2 Pro, Autel evo ii pro and Mini 2....  

Great job Ian.  

Ian in London Posted at 2-27 08:02
It was extremely windy last week and I think the Air 2S' performance was good, but not as good as the Mavic 3...  Last year, pre Mavic 3, it performed very well compared to the 2 Pro, Autel evo ii pro and Mini 2....  

https://youtu.be/aB57Ng7hOS8

It was extremely windy last week and I think the Air 2S' performance was good, but not as good as the Mavic 3
The Air 2S didn't perform as well as the Air 2S specs either.
Are the specs wrong or was that particular Air 2S underperforming?

Interesting video!

Hello there Ian. Good day and thank you for posting another interesting video that you have filmed and created. Great work and thank you for your support.

Labroides Posted at 2-27 13:31
It was extremely windy last week and I think the Air 2S' performance was good, but not as good as the Mavic 3
The Air 2S didn't perform as well as the Air 2S specs either.
Are the specs wrong or was that particular Air 2S underperforming?

That is a valid observation and question.

But I wonder what the spec "wind resistance" really means. I flew my lowly MA2 in 30 mph steady wind a few weeks ago even though the advertised wind resistance is only 22 mph. Bumpy for sure but it held ground and could be maneuvered ok. I used the MA2 because I thought it expendable ;-)

Also in the 2nd video it looks like the wind speed is fluctuating a lot, so not really a scientific test.

GaryDoug Posted at 3-1 19:21
That is a valid observation and question.

But I wonder what the spec "wind resistance" really means. I flew my lowly MA2 in 30 mph steady wind a few weeks ago even though the advertised wind resistance is only 22 mph. Bumpy for sure but it held ground and could be maneuvered ok. I used the MA2 because I thought it expendable ;-)

But I wonder what the spec "wind resistance" really means.
Certainly not what a lot of users imagine it does.

It's almost meaningless and has never been explained by DJI.
Best guess is the max wind speed at which the drone can hold position while hovering in Normal Mode.
DJI confuse this even more by specifying the wind resistance for the Air 2S to be 8.5-10.5 m/s (Level 5).
They couldn't even give a single wind speed (like they do for other models) and give you the range that coincides with the Beaufort force 5 wind.

Anybody with a wind tunnel and  bunch of DJI drones this is your time to shine...  Even maybe a variable speed, wide mouth leaf blower with accurate wind measuring device???

Bussty Posted at 3-1 23:08
Anybody with a wind tunnel and  bunch of DJI drones this is your time to shine...  Even maybe a variable speed, wide mouth leaf blower with accurate wind measuring device???

There's no need for a wind tunnel when your drone reports its flight data for you.
Even less when someone like Ian puts two drones together in the same winds.

And the leafblower is just a partuy trick that's never going to produce any useful data.

Labroides Posted at 3-2 00:02
There's no need for a wind tunnel when your drone reports its flight data for you.
Even less when someone like Ian puts two drones together in the same winds.

Yes wasn't really serious about the leaf blower (there are a few failed Youtube attempts at that) but would be good to know across the fleet what the winds speeds are that would halt forward movement of the drone at max tilt.

Bussty Posted at 3-2 00:10
Yes wasn't really serious about the leaf blower (there are a few failed Youtube attempts at that) but would be good to know across the fleet what the winds speeds are that would halt forward movement of the drone at max tilt.

would be good to know across the fleet what the winds speeds are that would halt forward movement of the drone at max tilt.
What's the max speed of your drone in still air?
That's the wind speed that will stop it in its tracks.

Labroides Posted at 3-2 01:46
would be good to know across the fleet what the winds speeds are that would halt forward movement of the drone at max tilt.
What's the max speed of your drone in still air?
That's the wind speed that will stop it in its tracks.

But is that speed published anywhere?

Bussty Posted at 3-2 12:26
But is that speed published anywhere?

Seriously?You could read the specs for your drone.
Or you could find it by pushing the right stick  when you fly on a calm day.

I think we are coming back to the whole point of this thread.

So if I fly my drone on a calm day it will reach the maximum allowed ground speed that the manufacturer will allow so in the case of the M3 in Sport Mode that's 19m/s or 68.4 km/hr   ...but

...as discussed above the other figure the manufacturer provides for the Mavic 3 is wind resistance of 12m/s but some question as to what that actually means. If I could add that figure to my 19m/s and get a top airspeed of  31 m/s or 111.6 km/hr that would make total sense and tell me that the drone would hold it's ground in winds up to 111.6 km/hr  BUT I don't think that is the case?

All I'm asking is if adding the 12 m/s wind resistance to the 19 m/s max ground speed doesn't provide the maximum wind the drone could withstand how do you work it out, or what info is available to let you know without having to put your drone in hurricane to find out?

Bussty Posted at 3-2 14:23
I think we are coming back to the whole point of this thread.

So if I fly my drone on a calm day it will reach the maximum allowed ground speed that the manufacturer will allow so in the case of the M3 in Sport Mode that's 19m/s or 68.4 km/hr   ...but

as discussed above the other figure the manufacturer provides for the Mavic 3 is wind resistance of 12m/s but some question as to what that actually means.

All I'm asking is if adding the 12 m/s wind resistance to the 19 m/s max ground speed doesn't provide the maximum wind the drone could withstand how do you work it out, or what info is available to let you know without having to put your drone in hurricane to find out?
I already explained what DJI's confusing Wind Resistance number means above.
It's irrelevant to the questions you are asking about speed of the drone when flying in wind.
If you know how fast your drone can fly in still air, you already know all you need to know about how it will be affected by flying in a moving body of air.

If you know how fast your drone can fly in still air, you already know all you need to know about how it will be affected by wind.

Not if the still air speed i.e ground speed is limited by the manufacturer?

Bussty Posted at 3-2 15:35
If you know how fast your drone can fly in still air, you already know all you need to know about how it will be affected by wind.

Not if the still air speed i.e ground speed is limited by the manufacturer?

If you aren't interested in reality  ........

Sorry Labroides I'm not sure what you mean? I'm here for information and you seem to be quite a wealth of knowledge and I am just hoping you can share some. This forum is I assume for those who know less looking for information from those that know more.

So am I wrong in thinking the Ground Speed of say the Mavic 3 is limited by DJI?

If DJI does limit the ground speed and looking at Ian's videos the Mavic 3 went a good chunk of the way to achieving the Max Ground Speed in a stiff wind I can only assume that the Mavic 3 can go against a wind much faster than 19 m/s. But how fast until it can't make any progress? A lot more than the Mavic Mini for sure!

I don't know the answer to these questions but am interested to find out. Can you help?

Many thanks

Andrew

Bussty Posted at 3-2 16:36
Sorry Labroides I'm not sure what you mean? I'm here for information and you seem to be quite a wealth of knowledge and I am just hoping you can share some. This forum is I assume for those who know less looking for information from those that know more.

So am I wrong in thinking the Ground Speed of say the Mavic 3 is limited by DJI?

Yes, the ground speed IS limited by DJI. It is in the manual. It is a combination of tilt angle and available power.

Mobilehomer Posted at 3-2 17:06
Yes, the ground speed IS limited by DJI. It is in the manual. It is a combination of tilt angle and available power.

Thanks Mobilehomer.

So do you have any ideas how we calculate the max wind the Mavic 3 can fly into before it stops making progress? Would have been nice if the wind resistance figure just added to the max speed to provide that number.

Many thanks

Bussty Posted at 3-2 17:13
Thanks Mobilehomer.

So do you have any ideas how we calculate the max wind the Mavic 3 can fly into before it stops making progress? Would have been nice if the wind resistance figure just added to the max speed to provide that number.

Look in the manual, it's there.

Bussty Posted at 3-2 17:13
Thanks Mobilehomer.

So do you have any ideas how we calculate the max wind the Mavic 3 can fly into before it stops making progress? Would have been nice if the wind resistance figure just added to the max speed to provide that number.

So do you have any ideas how we calculate the max wind the Mavic 3 can fly into before it stops making progress? Would have been nice if the wind resistance figure just added to the max speed to provide that number.
Forget "wind resistance" and read what I explained about that earlier in the thread.
I've already given you all the help I can with the rest of your question, but you haven't accepted any of it.

Mobilehomer Posted at 3-2 17:23
Look in the manual, it's there.

What's in the manual that relates to this?

Labroides Posted at 3-2 17:25
What's in the manual that relates to this?

Kind of conflicting information. Maybe you can make sense of it?
Max speed(Sport) - 21 m/s.
Max speed(Normal) - 15 m/s.
Max wind speed resistance - 12 m/s.
From all our previous discussions(and I may be wrong here), but shouldn't the Max wind speed resistance be closer to the max speed of either Normal or Sport? We are talking ground speed here, so it seems to me that the wind speed that would make the drone stationery to the ground would be the max speed as a head wind.

Mobilehomer Posted at 3-2 17:33
Kind of conflicting information. Maybe you can make sense of it?
Max speed(Sport) - 21 m/s.
Max speed(Normal) - 15 m/s.

DJI have been quite sloppy with their wind resistance numbers so it gets hard to tell what they actually mean.
If you look at what they've specified for different drones and compare them against the speed specs, they aren't consistent at all.

So gentlemen you are saying using 21 m/s as max speed which is 75.6 km/hr, if you launched the Mavic 3 into a wind blowing 75.6 km/hr the drone would just sit there without being able to move forward?

So 75.6 km/hr is the info I wanted. Thank you.

Bussty Posted at 3-2 17:55
So gentlemen you are saying using 21 m/s as max speed which is 75.6 km/hr, if you launched the Mavic 3 into a wind blowing 75.6 km/hr the drone would just sit there without being able to move forward?

So 75.6 km/hr is the info I wanted. Thank you.

I flew it in 60km/h winds and had no issues on top of Mt Mania but then that was the first Mavic 3 I had, this replacement is a piece of c***

Bussty Posted at 3-2 17:55
So gentlemen you are saying using 21 m/s as max speed which is 75.6 km/hr, if you launched the Mavic 3 into a wind blowing 75.6 km/hr the drone would just sit there without being able to move forward?

So 75.6 km/hr is the info I wanted. Thank you.

So gentlemen you are saying using 21 m/s as max speed which is 75.6 km/hr.
???   According to DJI's specs, 19 m/s is the max speed in Sport Mode.

if you launched the Mavic 3 into a wind blowing 75.6 km/hr the drone would just sit there without being able to move forward?
It's not going to be going anywhere in the direction of the wind.
It would probably be going backwards.

So 75.6 km/hr is the info I wanted. Thank you.
How are you going to make use of this "information"?

Labroides Posted at 3-2 19:49
So gentlemen you are saying using 21 m/s as max speed which is 75.6 km/hr.
???   According to DJI's specs, 19 m/s is the max speed in Sport Mode.

Use case 1...
Right I'm going flying today how fast is the wind blowing?
Ok so it's 35km with gusts to 50km Ok cool I'll fly.

Use case 2...
Right I'm going flying today how fast is the wind blowing?
Ok it's 50km with gusts to 80km  Ok I might pass

Bussty Posted at 3-2 20:45
[view_image]

Use case 1...

Good luck with that, but there's no simple, single wind speed that will indicate that it's safe to fly.
It's a lot more complicated than that,
If you don't consider direction of the wind and how far you intend flying, you could easily end up in trouble.

I totally appreciate that especially having a couple of years only flying the mini which doesn't handle strong winds well.

I have just had another look at Ian's video and I think Ian has basically proven there is no way the maximum airspeed of the Mavic 3 can be 19 m/s (EU) or 21 m/s which is the max ground speed limited by DJI. It must have to be significantly faster otherwise when flying into the wind like Ian was he wouldn't have been able to get close to those top ground speeds. The Mavic 3 must have significant ability to go faster in reserve but I wonder what that top airspeed is?

Why would I want to know? So I can make an informed decision and maybe even fly in Use Case 2 above. Use Case 2 might be a spectacular stormy day on the coast and you want to capture some wave breaks on a cliff for example and need to know if the wind is going to kick your drone out of the sky or not.  If you know that top wind speed though you can apply a big fat margin for error and maybe capture something that is a little out of the ordinary. Sounds like the Mavic 3 may have the grunt to do that.

Suren Posted at 3-2 18:14
I flew it in 60km/h winds and had no issues on top of Mt Mania but then that was the first Mavic 3 I had, this replacement is a piece of c***

Sorry to hear that Suren. So was the first drone a freak of nature or is your second drone just not performing? Was there a firmware upgrade between the two?

The wind resistance  spec is a joke at best. I really can't understand what it means. As an engineer, I think it should be very apparent in the definition of a spec. This is nothing farther than the truth. And I must assume it is guesswork....or sales-work.

Bussty Posted at 3-2 21:39
Sorry to hear that Suren. So was the first drone a freak of nature or is your second drone just not performing? Was there a firmware upgrade between the two?

1st drone was maybe just a freak and the 2nd a GPS lemon. The 1st was on firmware .400 and the 2nd is on latest .500

GaryDoug Posted at 3-2 22:23
The wind resistance  spec is a joke at best. I really can't understand what it means. As an engineer, I think it should be very apparent in the definition of a spec. This is nothing farther than the truth. And I must assume it is guesswork....or sales-work.

Wouldn't it be just so helpful if you could take the 19 m/s and add the 12 m/s wind resistance to get the max airspeed (windspeed) the drone could fly in but that converts to 111.60 km per hour!!

I'm guessing that is a bridge way to far!  In this video in a wind tunnel Autel Evo 2 Pro bombs at 68 km/hr but from Ian's video it suggests the Mavic 3 could handle faster than that...