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Health concerns with DJI FPV Goggles V2
9504 33 2022-5-20
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EiraSYS
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This subject may be quite sensitive, I'm not sure of it, so unless there are more reports of similar health issues this information should not be taken as correct, avoiding any DJI responsability.
Goggles V2 have 4 antennas, 2 of them are receiving antennas, the other 2 are transmitting antennas. Version 1 is diffferent, guess there are 3 transmitting and 1 for receiving.
To allow a good image quality in the goggles the communication architecture of DJI must allow full transmission and reception of all devices, having error control, allowing to send requests from the goggles to the drone to send back video corretion packets. Also true for other communications, like controllers informations and drone settings. The transmission power of the goggles must be enough to arrive to the drone, so that it can understand the message and send back acknowledge and all necessary corrections. Maybe a full mesh 2x2 MIMO communication protocol inside it. The more interference there is the more power is required for a good communication. DJI goggles adjust the power of the radiation that will need to arrive to the Drone at 10Km distance. The goggles are glued to the face, so the radiation is maximized in the head tissues. 2.4GHz and 5.8GHz radiation is not ionizing radiation, but it is a microwave radiation (just like microwave cooking) that will heat flesh. Prolonged use of the goggles may affect health. Repeated concentrated radiation in the same regions of the body may burn. One of the issues that I have detected is the burn of the skin inside the mouth, but under special circumstances, only after making a dental implant. Antennas radiation is changed with the metal implants, producing errors in the communications that are detected with the ‘interference’ message of the goggles when flying in free fields! To overcome the interference more power is feed to the goggles antennas and skin burn stripes will apear near the implants. Other skin spots may appear due to radiation lobbes. Other troubling symptoms may be related to eyeglass lens graduation that can eventually get worse, as was my case, in the same side of the dental implant! Not sure, but the green spots appearing in the goggles screen may well be the result of the same disturbed radiation caused by dental implants.
Expecting to have some feedback with similar complaints, or just none meaning that I’m wrong, or maybe my goggles are an isolated case.
Thank you for the reading,
J.Antunes

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2022-5-20
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FlyLow
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you keep them at most for the full duration of a flight (10-15min). i would rather worry about radiation from cell phones, much worse.
like everything, you should not exaggerate, you can still use the fpv drone without the goggles if you are very sensitive to radiation.

2022-5-20
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RH009
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I can't really comment on the possibilities, as I'm just not smart enough to know the intricate details of how the radiation can affect a person.  However, I do have dental implants and haven't had any issues at all with them, while using the goggles. Seems the same could be said with the Oculus Quest 2, which I have had attached to my face for multiple hours at a time (I get hooked on Poker and Fishing). I also haven't experienced any burning or sensitive skin issues with either of the goggles.  On a side note, I do appreciate the attached goggles image, I was curious as to which antenna did what.
2022-5-20
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EiraSYS
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Goggles image is a copy from another forum, not mine. Cell phones radiation is lower since the amount of information is less, and also because operator antennas are much more sensitive then the drone. Be aware that radiation power depends on the inverse square of the distance from the source. The goggles are clearly attached to the face and the transmitting antenna near the implant. I’m in the middle of the process, maybe its because the implant screw is now exposed and more subject to work as a passive antenna. The appearance of the burns look like a slight bruise making ~5mm stripes  perpendicular to the implant. It’’s important DJI make all goggles information available in the tablet  or cell phone so that we can pilot  without wearing the goggles. Should be legally an advantage since we shouldn’t need a second viewer for the drone. I’m considering selling the FPV drone kit and buy a different model because of the goggles!
2022-5-21
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FlyLow
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EiraSYS Posted at 5-21 04:07
Goggles image is a copy from another forum, not mine. Cell phones radiation is lower since the amount of information is less, and also because operator antennas are much more sensitive then the drone. Be aware that radiation power depends on the inverse square of the distance from the source. The goggles are clearly attached to the face and the transmitting antenna near the implant. I’m in the middle of the process, maybe its because the implant screw is now exposed and more subject to work as a passive antenna. The appearance of the burns look like a slight bruise making ~5mm stripes  perpendicular to the implant. It’’s important DJI make all goggles information available in the tablet  or cell phone so that we can pilot  without wearing the goggles. Should be legally an advantage since we shouldn’t need a second viewer for the drone. I’m considering selling the FPV drone kit and buy a different model because of the goggles!

as I said, it all depends on the exposure time very close to the body. you wear the goggles for short periods while having your phone with you all the time, there are people who spend hours with the phone to their ear and often with 4G/5G and wiFi running at the same time.
maybe someday continued radiation exposure from wireless equipment will be a scandal like asbestos, let's hope not.
but I agree, DJI should provide the data and ensure that the Goggles are reasonably shielded in the back. maybe that is already the case, maybe an independent body has already analyzed them, but nothing is known.




2022-5-21
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EiraSYS
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My exposure time is around 12 hours distributed over 2 years of drone flights, corresponding to the recorded videos. This information should be available in the goggles. I don’t think there is any shielding at all, maybe covering my head with aluminum foil with two small holes for the eyes! Phones have low range WiFi signal, just as Oculus Quest 2 that don’t need a 10Km range in line of sight. Power is much lower, you never have access to your home WiFi at 5Km distance (with a standard router)!
The solution for DJI is to break apart the head display from the power transmission and build a router/repeater that will stand near the pilot 5~10 meters away.

For who wants to read more about this subject:

Frequency Bands of DJI FPV:
2.4GHz:
        Wave frequency f = 2400~2483.5 MHz
        Wavelength  λ = 12.0mm~12.5mm

SDR 5.8GHz:
        Wave frequency f = 5725~5875 MHz
        Wavelength  λ = 51.0mm~52.3mm

REFERENCE, STANDARDS, AND GUIDELINES
FCC/IC:
The limit below which the exposure to RF is considered safe by regulatory bodies in North America is 1.6 mW/g average over 1 gram of tissue mass.
CE:
The limit below which the exposure to RF is considered safe by regulatory bodies in Europe is 2 mW/g average over 10 gram of tissue mass.


H,O.jpeg

https://www.quora.com/Does-water-have-a-microwave-resonant-frequency
Microwave ovens operate at a frequency of 2.45 GHz … will produce a wavelength of around 12.25 cm, and the regions of maximum intensity (hotspots) will be at half-wave points, or every 6.125 cm, but in a complex 3D pattern.


SAR EVALUATION REPORT of DJI FPV Goggles (version 1)

or


2022-5-21
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FlyLow
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EiraSYS Posted at 5-21 16:18
My exposure time is around 12 hours distributed over 2 years of drone flights, corresponding to the recorded videos. This information should be available in the goggles. I don’t think there is any shielding at all, maybe covering my head with aluminum foil  with two small holes for the eyes! Phones have low range WiFi signal, just as Oculus Quest 2 that don’t need a 10Km range in line of sight. Power is much lower, you never have access to your home WiFi at 5Km distance (with a standard router)!
The solution for DJI is to break apart the head display from the power transmission and build a router/repeater that will stand near the pilot 5~10 meters away.

I understand your concerns, maybe I will wrap the inside of the goggles with aluminum foil, but the suggestion of a rugged portable outdoor router connected to wired Goggles at a safe distance from the router would be a very interesting solution.   
2022-5-21
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EiraSYS
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FlyLow Posted at 5-21 20:17
I understand your concerns, maybe I will wrap the inside of the goggles with aluminum foil, but the suggestion of a rugged portable outdoor router connected to wired Goggles at a safe distance from the router would be a very interesting solution.

No need to be wired, goggles they can be wireless but having a low radiation specs. DJI people, make some testing using metallic parts around a simulated head to check radiation levels and induced temperature of a simulated body. Dental implants are not the only source of radiation interference of the goggles, try it with piercings, earrings and necklaces…
2022-5-22
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Chaosrider
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"allowing to send requests from the goggles to the drone to send back video corretion packets."

Do you know this is how it works, or is this a guess?

The goggles ask for the correction packets? Under what conditions?

I'm not worried about the radiation issue. The overall power levels are far too low for that to be a real problem in this application.

Thx,

TCS
2022-5-22
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Chaosrider
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EiraSYS Posted at 5-21 04:07
Goggles image is a copy from another forum, not mine. Cell phones radiation is lower since the amount of information is less, and also because operator antennas are much more sensitive then the drone. Be aware that radiation power depends on the inverse square of the distance from the source. The goggles are clearly attached to the face and the transmitting antenna near the implant. I’m in the middle of the process, maybe its because the implant screw is now exposed and more subject to work as a passive antenna. The appearance of the burns look like a slight bruise making ~5mm stripes  perpendicular to the implant. It’’s important DJI make all goggles information available in the tablet  or cell phone so that we can pilot  without wearing the goggles. Should be legally an advantage since we shouldn’t need a second viewer for the drone. I’m considering selling the FPV drone kit and buy a different model because of the goggles!

Uhhh...the immersive goggles are the point of FPV!  That's what it's for!

There are plenty of other drones around if you don't want that, both DJI and other.

TCS
2022-5-22
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FlyLow
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RE: Health concerns with DJI FPV Goggles V2

Chaosrider Posted at 5-22 09:21
"allowing to send requests from the goggles to the drone to send back video corretion packets."

Do you know this is how it works, or is this a guess?

Is a topic that always provokes strong reactions, where I live there is an appeal for every 4G/5G antenna that has to be placed and in some extreme cases they are even blown up.

I think it is a legitimate issue that should be addressed transparently by DJI and then find alternative solutions for the Goggles or ensure that they contain material that can reasonably block or absorb radiation in the direction of the head. It could then also be a good selling point.  

As for me, the doubt remains, I use the Goggles with caution and always take a mandatory break after each flight. I would never put these items on a child's head though.
2022-5-22
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EiraSYS
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Chaosrider Posted at 5-22 09:21
"allowing to send requests from the goggles to the drone to send back video corretion packets."

Do you know this is how it works, or is this a guess?

I’m not a DJI engineer, but if the goggles can detect radio interference it means there is a software/hardware mechanism to check if data has been received reliably. If not the goggles ask the drone to send new packets of the information with errors, included may be video data.
Immersive goggles are great, but not immersive radiation! I’m a fan of this drone and I haven’t started with M mode, only in simulation..
2022-5-23
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EiraSYS
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FlyLow Posted at 5-22 22:45
Is a topic that always provokes strong reactions, where I live there is an appeal for every 4G/5G antenna that has to be placed and in some extreme cases they are even blown up.

I think it is a legitimate issue that should be addressed transparently by DJI and then find alternative solutions for the Goggles or ensure that they contain material that can reasonably block or absorb radiation in the direction of the head. It could then also be a good selling point.  

You stated an important message:
“never put these items on a child's head”
When I bought the drone I thought about the radiation effect, I was hesitant to buy it but trusted the technology.
After trying it several times nothing seamed to be wrong, I changed my opinion later when my dentist asked me if I was a smoker because I had several stains inside the cheeks, I've never smoked!
The correlation with the drone was not immediate and obvious. A maxilofacial doctor asked me to do a biopsy and only after that I made the connection with the goggles drone radiation.
Please pay attention to any abnormal reaction. I stopped flying the drone because it was sent for repair (right sensor failing and sometimes no telemetry), since then the symptoms did not evolved anymore and skin is looking better.
2022-5-23
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FlyLow
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EiraSYS Posted at 5-23 09:22
You stated an important message:
“never put these items on a child's head”
When I bought the drone I thought about the radiation effect, I was hesitant to buy it but trusted the technology.

I just read all the warnings about the Goggles in the official manual. We don't have the emission data, but all the symptoms discussed are described, even the warning about children.
You are among those who should no longer wear them.  
2022-5-25
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chinmarifpv
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ohhh crap, im hoping i get xray vision, and not something else...
why everything i like, ends up trying to kill me
2022-5-26
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EiraSYS
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Instaman Posted at 5-26 23:38
Well, I don't have any problems with health whenever I use them. I can tell you that I can have a slight headache every time I wear them, but I just come back home and smoke weed with a Bonf , and after that, all the pain goes away. You can try it as well because cannabis reduces pain pretty well, so it's worth trying.

Headache can be associated with eyes strain. But I’m not a doctor! Weed, … it’s a solution and we can keep fully enjoying the drone flight. I give up selling my FPV for 1350€, want to try the M mode. I will post a new topic with a DIY possible improvised solution for the radiation
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2022-5-27
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bjr981s
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EiraSYS Posted at 5-21 16:18
My exposure time is around 12 hours distributed over 2 years of drone flights, corresponding to the recorded videos. This information should be available in the goggles. I don’t think there is any shielding at all, maybe covering my head with aluminum foil  with two small holes for the eyes! Phones have low range WiFi signal, just as Oculus Quest 2 that don’t need a 10Km range in line of sight. Power is much lower, you never have access to your home WiFi at 5Km distance (with a standard router)!
The solution for DJI is to break apart the head display from the power transmission and build a router/repeater that will stand near the pilot 5~10 meters away.

You have lost the plot mate

Mobile phones do not use Wifi to make and receive calls. (except for some carriers that support WiFi calling) The WiFi is for local data transport that is not encoded for Speech. WiFi is low power. On the other hand the mobile phone connection is high power from the phone to the cell tower and back. And carries for many miles.

In fact the further away from a cell tower you are, the stronger the output signal of the phone broadcast in attempt to contact a cell tower.
2022-5-27
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EiraSYS
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bjr981s Posted at 5-27 09:26
You have lost the plot mate

Mobile phones do not use Wifi to make and receive calls. (except for some carriers that support WiFi calling) The WiFi is for local data transport that is not encoded for Speech. WiFi is low power. On the other hand the mobile phone connection is high power from the phone to the cell tower and back. And carries for many miles.

The antennas radiation plot diagram? Sure, never had one!
In fact you can make a FaceTime or WhatsApp WiFi call. Mobile phone connection is high power until cell tower points the radiation pattern lobe towards you, only during a small amount of time, then connection no longer needs such high power. GSM, 3G, 4G, 5G frequency is also quite different from WiFi.
But let's go back to FPV Goggles, we need a DIY shield, this is my first one, the display gets a little of texture because of the wire mesh, other problem is the thickness, should be a lot thinner and lighter and more stylish. I will leave those for professionals. It's not a faraday cage, but it protects very low distance exposure.

FPG Goggles shield - front

FPG Goggles shield - front

FPG Goggles shield - back

FPG Goggles shield - back



2022-5-27
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bjr981s
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EiraSYS Posted at 5-27 13:51
The antennas radiation plot diagram? Sure, never had one!
In fact you can make a FaceTime or WhatsApp WiFi call. Mobile phone connection is high power until cell tower points the radiation pattern lobe towards you, only during a small amount of time, then connection no longer needs such high power. GSM, 3G, 4G, 5G frequency is also quite different from WiFi.
But let's go back to FPV Goggles, we need a DIY shield, this is my first one, the display gets a little of texture because of the wire mesh, other problem is the thickness, should be a lot thinner and lighter and more stylish. I will leave those for professionals. It's not a faraday cage, but it protects very low distance exposure.

"Mobile phone connection is high power until cell tower points the radiation pattern lobe towards you"

This is a technology that I have never heard off. It's also not true. No Rotatable antenna technology on a Mobile tower. Sorry. Would be a significant problem if it did exist as that would require an antenna for every cell connection in place.
The radiation level from your cell phone is significantly higher than WiFi.
You are chasing ghosts.
2022-5-29
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FlyLow
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EiraSYS Posted at 5-27 13:51
But let's go back to FPV Goggles, we need a DIY shield, this is my first one, the display gets a little of texture because of the wire mesh, other problem is the thickness, should be a lot thinner and lighter and more stylish. I will leave those for professionals. It's not a faraday cage, but it protects very low distance exposure.


What material do you use?
2022-5-29
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EiraSYS
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bjr981s Posted at 5-29 08:21
"Mobile phone connection is high power until cell tower points the radiation pattern lobe towards you"

This is a technology that I have never heard off. It's also not true. No Rotatable antenna technology on a Mobile tower. Sorry. Would be a significant problem if it did exist as that would require an antenna for every cell connection in place.

So you never heard about phased array antennas beamforming? MIMO technology? Not sure but FPV Goggles may be using this technology with only two emitting antennas to point the beam to the drone! Anyone interested can make a google search about it, for example 5G makes use of M-MIMO providing huge improvements in terms of system capacity.
2022-5-29
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EiraSYS
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FlyLow Posted at 5-29 08:26
What material do you use?

Improvised a quick solution in a chinese store. Its a sandwich of a wire mesh from a flat strainer with two squares of black felt hand sewn with velcro to merge between the goggles and the sponge foam padding. Very easy and quick to do. There are better selling wire meshes that are  thinner and lighter, for example in aluminium. Try ‘microwave wire mesh’ search.
2022-5-29
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LeslieGibbs
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thx for advice guys!
2022-7-10
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RichardSimmons
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[size=13.3333px]cool! thx
2022-7-18
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djiuser_9JtC29teWSSn
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Great post, thanks.
2022-9-25
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djiuser_1GgHtMp091Dm
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I can definitely feel a difference after even the first 15 minute flight     Its like holding your cellphone 30 minute to your ear.    I wonder if this product will help a little instead of the signal going towards your head rather to the front?   One thing you can minimize the power,  specially for the AVATA use it for the purpose designed to fly nearby inside a property.   Then the controller will not run in full power,  if you fly 6miles away you will feel the full power !  Also I use to sit in the car to be more comfortable but because of the metal roof  the signal gets so strong thats why maybe I get a slight headache.   
Don't rely on DJI same as our Government the don't care about your health, unless you spray  like Monsanto's worst Chemicals on your crops and yourself.  And even then it took many good lawyers to protect those people     If DJI would care the would give the option to connect the Google  with a cable to your  FPV controller and let the Controller handle all the communication and radiation..  

2022-10-26
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EiraSYS
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I keep flying, and still alive, now also with Avata goggles, symptoms did not evolve. So radiation may not be that bad, I hope!
2022-10-27
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Nidge
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Foo Foo pseudo science.

For a start there are  many types of radiation, and only a few are harmful. The problem is as soon a you mention the word radiation most think of ionising radiation which is harmful. RF radiation is non-ionising and has no health hazards, especially at the frequencies and power levels used by our FPV toys. Truth be told your body is subjected to more radiation, ionising and non-ionising, from standing in the Sun for five minutes than if you wore your DJI FPV goggles for a thousand lifetimes.
2022-10-30
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LogoQRCodeCOM
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EiraSYS Posted at 5-21 16:18
My exposure time is around 12 hours distributed over 2 years of drone flights, corresponding to the recorded videos. This information should be available in the goggles. I don’t think there is any shielding at all, maybe covering my head with aluminum foil  with two small holes for the eyes! Phones have low range WiFi signal, just as Oculus Quest 2 that don’t need a 10Km range in line of sight. Power is much lower, you never have access to your home WiFi at 5Km distance (with a standard router)!
The solution for DJI is to break apart the head display from the power transmission and build a router/repeater that will stand near the pilot 5~10 meters away.

I agree 100%  why is not everything build into the remote and just the screens like in Oculus connected trough cables?   My eyes are always getting irritated after using the googles specially  when the drone is behind something and the signal is weak

The will never do this until in a long study first people get harmed.  Similar to Roundup Story
2022-12-30
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Nidge Posted at 10-30 09:55
Foo Foo pseudo science.

For a start there are  many types of radiation, and only a few are harmful. The problem is as soon a you mention the word radiation most think of ionising radiation which is harmful. RF radiation is non-ionising and has no health hazards, especially at the frequencies and power levels used by our FPV toys. Truth be told your body is subjected to more radiation, ionising and non-ionising, from standing in the Sun for five minutes than if you wore your DJI FPV goggles for a thousand lifetimes.

so how come I can use the Oculus Goggles and play flight simulator for 1-2 hours and feel fine.
As soon I put the Googgles V2  for a short flight  ( specially when the signal is bad ) my easy get irritated after 1 flight ! 10 min
2022-12-30
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fans7f7574a5
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When I put the DJIgoggles2 on, my face starts to burn like if my face was in a microwave. I get some bad neurological symptoms from it and the rest of my day is super ...ty after that. Is there a way to fly the Avata without the goggles but on a monitor or on my phone instead?
Thanks for the help
2023-10-5
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fans7f7574a5
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I have two FPV drones from a two different brands,  everytime I use my DJIgoggles2 , my face burns like if my head was in a microwave…I get some neurological symptoms and feel crapy the rest of the day. Is there a way to transmit the signal to a monitor? Would I be able to fly my Avata from another screen other than the goggles?
Thanks
2023-10-6
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Waldo4280
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I use 3 layers of tin foil and still I’ve grown 2 more sets of eyes on my head, and one of them gets irritated when I walk under 5G towers.
2023-10-6
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EiraSYS
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I’m still flying, more and more in AVATA M mode! Already thinking in a more powerful quad, 3.5 or 5 inch propeller with a future DJI O4? Air unit! One with camera pitch control hopefully.
Symptoms are getting worse, the more I fly the more I burn money on new simulators and invest on battery packs : ) my nose also suffers a lot…

2023-10-22
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