Question for those of you that got a US shipping notice but you still cannot get a delivery tracking from UPS. Did you order Mini 3 Pro only or did you order the Flymore combo also. Since some that ordered the drone only have gotten UPS delivery estimate, I'm guessing we're waiting on the combo?

I received my shipping notice on May 25th at about 10AM eastern time, but UPS never received the package. I just now spoke with DJI chat and was told that my order will actually be shipped on May 31.  I ordered the Mini 3 Pro with DJI RC and Fly More Plus.

I agree that the Fly More combo is probably the holdup.

i would be surprise if you got a different answer from someone (like me) who ordered the drone only.

The Saint Posted at 5-27 14:21
i would be surprise if you got a different answer from someone (like me) who ordered the drone only.

Someone posted on the other thread that he actually have an estimated srrival date on the 28th, guess we'll find out tomorrow.

Wiz33 Posted at 5-27 14:49
Someone posted on the other thread that he actually have an estimated srrival date on the 28th, guess we'll find out tomorrow.

i have a ups tracking number and i have a ups scheduled delivery date of 05/31/2022.

what the heck is an "estimated arrival date" and why would anybody think it has any credibly absent of data from the shipper actually delivering the package?

i see no movement on my package according to ups (the shipper) so i plan accordingly.  ups has been known to be wrong and it's possible dji knows more than ups.

you're right, we shall see.  however, this label business im not seeing it.

The Saint Posted at 5-27 15:04
i have a ups tracking number and i have a ups scheduled delivery date of 05/31/2022.

what the heck is an "estimated arrival date" and why would anybody think it has any credibly absent of data from the shipper actually delivering the package?

Where did you find the arrival date on the UPS site? All I got is "The delivery date will be provided as soon as possible"

Wiz33 Posted at 5-27 15:13
Where did you find the arrival date on the UPS site? All I got is "The delivery date will be provided as soon as possible"

couple of things to note:

ups.com website and the ups app may contain different information.  below is a screenshot from the app which shows the date (and the tracking number is below that but i cut it out).  when i go to ups.com, i see "pending delivery date" which i did not see yesterday because yesterday it said 05/31/2022 as well.  it probably changed right after i switched my deliver to an "access point" which is another story.  anyway, check the app and check on the summary page because even in the app, if you go into the tracking number details, it says "The delivery date will be provided as soon as possible" under Estimate Delivery.

anyway, you should always login because just searching on a tracking number usually won't give you much.

The Saint Posted at 5-27 16:32
couple of things to note:

ups.com website and the ups app may contain different information.  below is a screenshot from the app which shows the date (and the tracking number is below that but i cut it out).  when i go to ups.com, i see "pending delivery date" which i did not see yesterday because yesterday it said 05/31/2022 as well.  it probably changed right after i switched my deliver to an "access point" which is another story.  anyway, check the app and check on the summary page because even in the app, if you go into the tracking number details, it says "The delivery date will be provided as soon as possible" under Estimate Delivery.

Ah thanks. I did not login, I'll give that a try.

The Saint Posted at 5-27 16:32
couple of things to note:

ups.com website and the ups app may contain different information.  below is a screenshot from the app which shows the date (and the tracking number is below that but i cut it out).  when i go to ups.com, i see "pending delivery date" which i did not see yesterday because yesterday it said 05/31/2022 as well.  it probably changed right after i switched my deliver to an "access point" which is another story.  anyway, check the app and check on the summary page because even in the app, if you go into the tracking number details, it says "The delivery date will be provided as soon as possible" under Estimate Delivery.

Well logging in does give more info but totally useless as mine said "Estimated delivery
Today, May 27 between 11:45 A.M. - 3:45 P.M".  I think that's auto generated based on the time the label was created and your location (I'm in CA).

I got my shipping notices on May 25th.  I did a split order with the Mini3P and RC screened on one order and then followed up a few minutes later and ordered the FMC with extended batteries.  I did the split order in case the FMC kit would delay the drone/RC.  However, I got two e-mails with a UPS label created for Drone/RC and another label created for the FMC kit.  Both tracking number still show as label created and awaiting UPS pickup.  I did notice that both are coming UPS Ground which is usually 3-5 Business days after pickup.  With Monday being a holiday I'm thinking I will not get my 2 deliveries until late next week.  

Wiz33 Posted at 5-27 17:17
Well logging in does give more info but totally useless as mine said "Estimated delivery
Today, May 27 between 11:45 A.M. - 3:45 P.M".  I think that's auto generated based on the time the label was created and your location (I'm in CA).

agreed, these are dates generate by ups algorithms that do the best they can to tell you what they think they know based on their years and years of deliveries.   in all of my history, i have found them to be super accurate as long as you give them the package.  otherwise, i think we all know that anytime it says "awaiting...." then all bets are off.

we've all shipped packages ourselves.  i have paid for shipping and printed a label (after plugging in a shipping label with today's date) and sat on the box for the entire rest of the day until i had time to drop it off.   and at 7pm when i drop it in the box knowing pickup has already passed....well, you get the point.  none of this is a surprise.

Hi there. Thank you for reaching out and we're sorry for the trouble. Can you please send us the order number via PM so we can check it here on our end? Please keep us posted. Thank you.

Well another 24 hours have gone by and UPS still does not have the package. So unless they made arrangement with UPS for a Staturday pickup. It won't even reach UPS till Tuesday. What a mess. Yes, I know they probably have to print label and get thing ready with such a large shipment but they should delay sending out the shipping notice.

Also, None of the forum mods have a clue as to what's going on and they just keep moving all the ship date thread to the service/shipping forum. A simple statement that explain that they have to start creating labels early with such a large shipment and the shipment won't actually be released to UPS until May 31st would have cleared things up, Same can be said with DJI support with different reps giving out ship date from May 25th to May 31st. What a mess.

Same thing here.  I'm calling the FTC Tuesday if I don't see my mini 3 shipped.

Wiz33 Posted at 5-28 06:56
Also, None of the forum mods have a clue as to what's going on and they just keep moving all the ship date thread to the service/shipping forum. A simple statement that explain that they have to start creating labels early with such a large shipment and the shipment won't actually be released to UPS until May 31st would have cleared things up, Same can be said with DJI support with different reps giving out ship date from May 25th to May 31st. What a mess.

Hi, there. We are greatly sorry to hear about that. Please kindly note that we have replied to your other post and your orders will be updated within 48 business hours, please wait for the update patiently.

Riddler 305 Posted at 5-27 14:07
I received my shipping notice on May 25th at about 10AM eastern time, but UPS never received the package. I just now spoke with DJI chat and was told that my order will actually be shipped on May 31.  I ordered the Mini 3 Pro with DJI RC and Fly More Plus.

I agree that the Fly More combo is probably the holdup.

Same here. I'm getting antsy, I hope they do ship today.

Intentionally creating a shipping label knowing there is no intention to ship a product is a "Deceptive Trade Practice". They're only attempting to stave off folks from canceling orders because they are tired of DJI holding their money so long without shipping the orders. It's simply an attempt to buy themselves more time. I'll be surprised if this "Deceptive Trade Practice" doesn't turn into a class action suit. If it does, I'd gladly join it! In the mean time, I'm reporting this to the FTC https://www.ftc.gov/ and to my states Attorney General. This not right nor fair to sale somethin on a "Pre" sale then attempt to fake out customers to hold their money longer. While still not delivering the purchased product/s.

I, as a matter of fact, am an attorney who handles class actions.  This is EXACTLY what I was thinking when I posted initially about DJI charging my card nearly a month before the product ships.  Now that they have pulled the 'label printed' shenanigans, I am only more intent on digging further.  Has DJI always conducted business by charging cards so long before shipping occurs?  

djiuser_hV61jVnlptqC Posted at 5-31 09:09
Intentionally creating a shipping label knowing there is no intention to ship a product is a "Deceptive Trade Practice". They're only attempting to stave off folks from canceling orders because they are tired of DJI holding their money so long without shipping the orders. It's simply an attempt to buy themselves more time. I'll be surprised if this "Deceptive Trade Practice" doesn't turn into a class action suit. If it does, I'd gladly join it! In the mean time, I'm reporting this to the FTC https://www.ftc.gov/ and to my states Attorney General. This not right nor fair to sale somethin on a "Pre" sale then attempt to fake out customers to hold their money longer. While still not delivering the purchased product/s.

good luck proving that. DJI can easily state that due to personnel shortage during the pandemic that they need to print out labels ahead of time for such a large shipment.  In truth. Their CA facility only have about 15 people according to their latest corporate info.

You do not have a personnel shortage for 4 or 5 weeks so as to justify an actual charge instead of a "temporary hold."

djiuser_UiOpbSlvbHqN Posted at 5-31 09:16
I, as a matter of fact, am an attorney who handles class actions.  This is EXACTLY what I was thinking when I posted initially about DJI charging my card nearly a month before the product ships.  Now that they have pulled the 'label printed' shenanigans, I am only more intent on digging further.  Has DJI always conducted business by charging cards so long before shipping occurs?

There are no laws preventing a supplier charging fully for an pre-order. It's probably buried in some fine print on their site that your CC will be charged upon order entry. You basically entered into a purchase agreement willing to pay in full knowing that the product will not ship till a certain date. Since the earliest shipping date that was show when you placed your order was May 31st. You don't even have a basis for filing a complaint till tomorrow.

As I said, I don't really care when I get my drone (since my next international travel won't be till Oct). I was just frustrated with all the conflicting shipping info. But it seems that package should hit UPS later today and you should see tracking info no later than tomorrow morning.

djiuser_UiOpbSlvbHqN Posted at 5-31 09:16
I, as a matter of fact, am an attorney who handles class actions.  This is EXACTLY what I was thinking when I posted initially about DJI charging my card nearly a month before the product ships.  Now that they have pulled the 'label printed' shenanigans, I am only more intent on digging further.  Has DJI always conducted business by charging cards so long before shipping occurs?

if you were a real attorney you would know they could "hold" your money for 30 days before having to notify you to gain consent for hold it longer.  this is capitalism, nobody is ripping you off.  you can get your money back in an instant if you really wanted it back.  you're not entitled to a drone.  if you don't like the way they do business, demand your money back and take your business elsewhere with people who conduct business more in line with how you feel it should be done.  that's the american way, not sue happy b.s.  learn to tell the difference between a company that is ripping off people getting their money with no intentions of delivery ever or stalling to keep you from getting a refund., sending out fake updates with ambiguous terms; hiding the details.  uggh!

djiuser_UiOpbSlvbHqN Posted at 5-31 09:19
You do not have a personnel shortage for 4 or 5 weeks so as to justify an actual charge instead of a "temporary hold."

seriously?  a merchant has to justify an actual charger rather than a hold?  is that a visa/mc rule or is that a state law or is it a federal law?  you're a lawyer, let us know what are the legal requirements a merchant must meet in order to justify getting paid now instead of later?  you willing sent them your money, you didn't read the terms?  there's nothing abnormal or inconsistent about their business practices.  you're not a lawyer, please.

I did not say the charge was illegal, per se.  The problem here is the misrepresentation on the shipping status.  There are, as another poster indicated, some pretty stern deceptive trade laws around the country.  DJI's website indicates "shipped" on my order status page.  However, when you investigate further you see (quite clearly) that the product has not shipped and that a label has just been printed.  What I am saying is that the pre-shipping charge (as opposed to a hold or merchant authorization), coupled with what seems to be intentional misrepresentation of the shipment status on the order page, seems to be designed to allow DJI to benefit financially insofar as it holds funds that a reasonable person might seek a refund for.  The difference between an actual charge and a hold is such that a person has to pay interest on an actual charge when they would not have to on a hold.  In most cases with DJI, people seemingly have to pay interest for charges on a product they do not even have and which will not even ship any time soon.  A reasonable person might see that they are paying interest and initiate a refund with DJI "but for" DJI showing "product shipped" on the order status page.  That is misleading and is, in fact, a violation of several provisions of applicable consumer protection laws.  Nobody in their right mind is going to be happy with being charged interest on a product that won't even ship for 5 or 6 weeks.  

djiuser_UiOpbSlvbHqN Posted at 5-31 10:47
I did not say the charge was illegal, per se.  The problem here is the misrepresentation on the shipping status.  There are, as another poster indicated, some pretty stern deceptive trade laws around the country.  DJI's website indicates "shipped" on my order status page.  However, when you investigate further you see (quite clearly) that the product has not shipped and that a label has just been printed.  What I am saying is that the pre-shipping charge (as opposed to a hold or merchant authorization), coupled with what seems to be intentional misrepresentation of the shipment status on the order page, seems to be designed to allow DJI to benefit financially insofar as it holds funds that a reasonable person might seek a refund for.  The difference between an actual charge and a hold is such that a person has to pay interest on an actual charge when they would not have to on a hold.  In most cases with DJI, people seemingly have to pay interest for charges on a product they do not even have and which will not even ship any time soon.  A reasonable person might see that they are paying interest and initiate a refund with DJI "but for" DJI showing "product shipped" on the order status page.  That is misleading and is, in fact, a violation of several provisions of applicable consumer protection laws.  Nobody in their right mind is going to be happy with being charged interest on a product that won't even ship for 5 or 6 weeks.

You still have no case since the shipping date that was given was May 31st when place your order. As for being charge and just not a hold on your CC, I'll pretty sure you'll find it in the fine print somewhere on their store site that you'll be charged in full upon order entry.  If you're not willing to do that, you should have waited till it's IN STOCK on their store or one of the local/online retailers.

In my case, it said "ships May 17" when I ordered it, so there is that also.

business is unpredictable and the process has to be flexible in order to facilitate so many factors and changes that are bound to happen.  i checked the dji order page again and if you review the entire page instead of just focusing on the words "shipped" then you cannot be deceived.  it clearly states that dji has shipped the package (to the common carrier, however long that takes) and you will receive further updates on the progress of your package shortly.  no one should assume that their package is making "substantial progress" once it says "shipped" and no one should think dji is the common carrier so when you go to ups.com, you know exactly where you stand.  i can tell for sure, my package is late so im not confused.  the process has to be flexible in case there are delays or issues.  it is common for seller status to differ from the shipper status.  as far as representation, most sellers will advise you an order is beyond change once it reaches the "processing" stage.  marking an item as "shipped" is not the dji method to fool anyone into not asking for a refund; that's preposterous.  it is within the normal course of business for a seller to delay any changes to your order once it is either marked processing or shipped (their choice) status.  you still have choices once the package is delivered and that is legal for dji to lock you out for a bit before getting final resolution.

dji does not charge interest.  if you have a problem with paying interest, you need to address that with whomever you borrowed money from.  i don't pay interest.  all of my banks and credit card allow 30 days on every single transaction regardless.  if you don't want to pay interest, use a debit card or pay with cash/check.  dji cannot be responsible for the interest you pay regardless if the order is your fault, their fault, ups fault, or anyone's fault.  as you know, if you have damages in the form of interest, a court will award those if necessary.  perhaps you can call your bank and explain the situation and they might waive the interest....but it's not relevant to this conversation.  everybody who pre-orders a product or orders a hot new product for the first time must be prepared but i understand if you're not cut out for this.  decades ago it took me awhile to get used to it as well.  i paid with paypal which generally means there is no "hold" function (but you didn't see me complain).  i needed the dji charges to hit the month of may statement and i didn't want to risk a delayed charge should dji go that route.  if you secure your finances properly, none of this is an issue.  if you have financial issues, this game is not for you.

this is a pre-order for a hot product.  you express your desire to be the first to obtain this product by paying for it in advance.  not a deposit, not a hold....but full price.  then you agreed to wait for it with the option to cancel at any point or ask for a refund.  i'm not sure how you are making your decision or what causes you to change your mind but anyone who has any experience with a pre-order or a hot new product knows that factors like order status, change in dates, changes to specs, etc. cannot be a mitigating factor for your claim.  people pay money to hold their place in line and get whatever comes their way and if you don't want to wait or something is not right, get out of line.  it's a risk; it's not risk free like you want it.  you cannot blame it on "they changed the specs at the last minute" or "they keep pushing the date out" or "my credit card charges are about to roll over" or "they marked my order as shipped but i don't have it yet."  this is the nature of the game and as i said before, it's 2022 and this is how it works and you should know this and if you are not happy about it, instead of finding fault to an imperfect process that "works", just get out the game and wait for things to go your way until you are ready to make the "perfect purchase."  dji has no ill intent by marking the item on their website as shipped but at the same time, providing a tracking number that tells you the current status so you have the whole picture.  should they just change the verbiage to "shopped?"  for ordinary business, the process flows, but for the first orders out the gate, it's bumpy and a little bit unpredictable.  instead of asking the customer how to do it, they follow the law.  and the law is clear on this.

i understand why dji doesn't put a hold on the credit card.  it's a hot product and they probably would prefer not if one person puts 3 holds on their credit card from 3 different places:  first one to ship (and charge me), the rest gets cancelled or returned.  won't stop you but you are less likely to do this if these are charges.  not cool when thousands of people who want just one are making the line longer at best buy and amazon and dji and the local retailer and dronenerds, etc.  dji didn't make this up; everybody does this.  and it's a legal practice.  if you have a problem with it, call visa/mc or your bank is the appropriate response not to get the nosy government involved in telling private businesses how they should run; this is america, not russia.  there is no ill intent, there is no fraud, this is nothing deceptive.  you can't claim you saw a cool dji commercial and it's deceived you into not to cancel your order excuse...."shipped" does not rise to that level in any sense of the word and especially when you have a tracking number.  your case would be dismissed.

djiuser_UiOpbSlvbHqN Posted at 5-31 11:07
In my case, it said "ships May 17" when I ordered it, so there is that also.

Where did you get that ship date? No one that ordered from the US even within one minute after the order page went active got anything other than "Product will ship on May 31st).

Wiz33 Posted at 5-31 12:07
Where did you get that ship date? No one that ordered from the US even within one minute after the order page went active got anything other than "Product will ship on May 31st).

to be more precise, before you even click the "pre-order" button, it says (for your state):

"Estimated shipping date: 08/01/2022"

as you alluded to, nobody got anything close to a commitment.

Before I clicked, it CLEARLY said May 17.  After I clicked and my payment went through I then got the notification that said another date (June 2).  Also, when I ordered the fly more combo it clearly and unambiguously indicated it would ship May 30.  That still has not occurred, I don't even have a "warehouse processing," "label printed," etc. notification.  The point here is that DJI should not represent circumstances are XYZ when, in fact, they are ABC.  I think DJI knew it could not meet the ship dates it promoted but wanted to nevertheless go ahead and charge everyone's cards.  You must keep in mind, also, that the longer the time that passes the more diluted your rights become with respect to protections afforded by your credit card company.  If you were charged for something two months ago and did not get it in enough time to go through the dispute process then you may very well be left without recourse.  I can assure you DJI are no bunch of fools.  

djiuser_UiOpbSlvbHqN Posted at 5-31 14:31
Before I clicked, it CLEARLY said May 17.  After I clicked and my payment went through I then got the notification that said another date (June 2).  Also, when I ordered the fly more combo it clearly and unambiguously indicated it would ship May 30.  That still has not occurred, I don't even have a "warehouse processing," "label printed," etc. notification.  The point here is that DJI should not represent circumstances are XYZ when, in fact, they are ABC.  I think DJI knew it could not meet the ship dates it promoted but wanted to nevertheless go ahead and charge everyone's cards.  You must keep in mind, also, that the longer the time that passes the more diluted your rights become with respect to protections afforded by your credit card company.  If you were charged for something two months ago and did not get it in enough time to go through the dispute process then you may very well be left without recourse.  I can assure you DJI are no bunch of fools.

Never said May 17th. I was on the page way before ordering started and after. Started with May 31st.

djiuser_UiOpbSlvbHqN Posted at 5-31 14:31
Before I clicked, it CLEARLY said May 17.  After I clicked and my payment went through I then got the notification that said another date (June 2).  Also, when I ordered the fly more combo it clearly and unambiguously indicated it would ship May 30.  That still has not occurred, I don't even have a "warehouse processing," "label printed," etc. notification.  The point here is that DJI should not represent circumstances are XYZ when, in fact, they are ABC.  I think DJI knew it could not meet the ship dates it promoted but wanted to nevertheless go ahead and charge everyone's cards.  You must keep in mind, also, that the longer the time that passes the more diluted your rights become with respect to protections afforded by your credit card company.  If you were charged for something two months ago and did not get it in enough time to go through the dispute process then you may very well be left without recourse.  I can assure you DJI are no bunch of fools.

dji is going to keep your money past the deadline where you will be able to get it back?  c'mon.  
i hate to say it but seriously, pretty much everything you said couldn't be further from the truth.

I know what I saw.  I want to know why in the heck so many people on this forum seem to be a DJI apologist?  DJI claims it want to be the Apple of the Drone industry.  Their performance is pathetic.  If they cannot manage basic things such as shipping, credit card charges, etc. then I pity what a real problem would do for them.  Before anyone says it, Apple delivers MILLIONS of iPhones each year on a new release schedule with nary a hiccup.  They also don't charge the card until it ships.  I don't want to hear any bull... about why DJI does it this way, that way, etc.   The fact remains that their performance is horrendous.  

djiuser_UiOpbSlvbHqN Posted at 5-31 19:01
I know what I saw.  I want to know why in the heck so many people on this forum seem to be a DJI apologist?  DJI claims it want to be the Apple of the Drone industry.  Their performance is pathetic.  If they cannot manage basic things such as shipping, credit card charges, etc. then I pity what a real problem would do for them.  Before anyone says it, Apple delivers MILLIONS of iPhones each year on a new release schedule with nary a hiccup.  They also don't charge the card until it ships.  I don't want to hear any bull... about why DJI does it this way, that way, etc.   The fact remains that their performance is horrendous.

Then you must be special because no one else that placed their order in the US got anything other than May 31st as an estimate ship date and I repeat "ESTIMATE". They did screw up by getting the labels printed way ahead of time which resulted in shipping notice being sent (I'm sure that it's an automated process). They should have pin a topic explaining this on the forum.

djiuser_UiOpbSlvbHqN Posted at 5-31 19:01
I know what I saw.  I want to know why in the heck so many people on this forum seem to be a DJI apologist?  DJI claims it want to be the Apple of the Drone industry.  Their performance is pathetic.  If they cannot manage basic things such as shipping, credit card charges, etc. then I pity what a real problem would do for them.  Before anyone says it, Apple delivers MILLIONS of iPhones each year on a new release schedule with nary a hiccup.  They also don't charge the card until it ships.  I don't want to hear any bull... about why DJI does it this way, that way, etc.   The fact remains that their performance is horrendous.

buying an iphone is complex.  it involves a possible subscription, possible trade-in, etc.   iphones come in dozens of skus and they are specific to country, all with different availability dates.  cannot compare dji to apple even if they wannabe.  a pre-order from dji is quite a bit different from a pre-order from apple.  an on-time apple launch is much different than a late dji launch.

if you want apple-like service, buy your dji mini 3 pro from apple.  oh, wait....

Wiz33 Posted at 5-31 19:19
Then you must be special because no one else that placed their order in the US got anything other than May 31st as an estimate ship date and I repeat "ESTIMATE". They did screw up by getting the labels printed way ahead of time which resulted in shipping notice being sent (I'm sure that it's an automated process). They should have pin a topic explaining this on the forum.

s* happens.  hopefully they found something and decided to hold the drone until they could reflash them or something like that.  i want the drone to be shipped when it is ready, not when a email is sent or a labell is printed.

if i sell something on ebay for example, when i print a shipping label in the morning and i don't take the package to the shipper that day and wait for the next day because there is a blizzard outside, i often wonder if i got stuck with someone who's going to nitpick about a day and become unhappy just because.  millions of people are like that; cant be satisfied.  so i pirate ship.

djiuser_hV61jVnlptqC Posted at 5-31 09:09
Intentionally creating a shipping label knowing there is no intention to ship a product is a "Deceptive Trade Practice". They're only attempting to stave off folks from canceling orders because they are tired of DJI holding their money so long without shipping the orders. It's simply an attempt to buy themselves more time. I'll be surprised if this "Deceptive Trade Practice" doesn't turn into a class action suit. If it does, I'd gladly join it! In the mean time, I'm reporting this to the FTC https://www.ftc.gov/ and to my states Attorney General. This not right nor fair to sale somethin on a "Pre" sale then attempt to fake out customers to hold their money longer. While still not delivering the purchased product/s.

It's not that serious!!!

Lighten up everyone, we all just want the stuff in our hands, let's not be douches. The sheer amount of product being shipped is likely the cause of the delay from "label printed" to "shipped", mine is in that same state and I'd love to see it change but after a few days, it hasn't. Bottom line, if you don't want the product, request a refund, if you do, suck it up and make the best of it, we do this each and evert time a new product is shipped. I am sure they try and estimate but it can't be easy given today's environment and if you really, I mean this, if you really don't trust them, you should get a refund and never do business with them again. Sorry for the harsh words but c'mon, enough of the complaining and thinking a massive conspiracy is afoot...

Jack