Joe Dawson Posted at 6-15 12:16
I understand... With my disability this is not a practical option.

So I was disappointed to see this feature missing from the DJI Fly app that existed in Go 4 app on my older DJI drones.

You could tape over the sensors but obviously that means they are never available in the flight concerned.
Go4 to Fly resulted in quite a few retrograde 'improvements'.

hallmark007 Posted at 6-15 12:18
No it doesn’t for me just checked sensors still send drone upward, they don’t seem to send it up as much in normal mode for some reason but they are still on.

I just made a video showing thew different behaviour I get between the two modes.

Sean-bumble-bee Posted at 6-16 02:39
You could tape over the sensors but obviously that means they are never available in the flight concerned.
Go4 to Fly resulted in quite a few retrograde 'improvements'.

Yes it is sad that so many years later we don't have a Go 5 app or something that is well beyond what we had in Go 4.

Sean-bumble-bee Posted at 6-16 02:31
The same then can easily happen if you revert from flying a drone with landing protection to flying the likes of a P3, fortunately I throttle up in time to prevent the landing but it was a close thing.

I suppose because you are aware , not everyone is.

DAFlys Posted at 6-16 03:11
I just made a video showing thew different behaviour I get between the two modes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCMJCvATrEM

The second one looked very fast looks like you sneaked up on it, i would try putting your hand underneath and try landing on it then you will see sensors are still on.

hallmark007 Posted at 6-16 04:05
I suppose because you are aware , not everyone is.

Ah I missed a "d" which changed the context of the post. Now fixed.

hallmark007 Posted at 6-16 04:07
The second one looked very fast looks like you sneaked up on it, i would try putting your hand underneath and try landing on it then you will see sensors are still on.

If you’re too slow vps will kick in, but as I’ve had to do this for around 10 windy flights now trust me it makes a difference.   I’ve got over 171 miles on mini 3 now and I did that test three times to get a video that I was happy with so there's obviously a difference.  

I’ll remake it slower if it helps.  

DAFlys Posted at 6-16 11:48
If you’re too slow vps will kick in, but as I’ve had to do this for around 10 windy flights now trust me it makes a difference.   I’ve got over 171 miles on mini 3 now and I did that test three times to get a video that I was happy with so there's obviously a difference.  

I’ll remake it slower if it helps.

No your good, I tested myself but found in normal mode it was quick to jump up, but sport mode although it did jump up it was a lot slower.

hallmark007 Posted at 6-16 12:18
No your good, I tested myself but found in normal mode it was quick to jump up, but sport mode although it did jump up it was a lot slower.

I think the slower response is  the VPS sensor kicking in.  

JJB* Posted at 6-15 04:28
Hi,

Experienced guy here too   ;-)  

You do know that there are 2 different downward sensors? With 2 different discrete functions.

All the situations that I read here for why you want to disable these sensors are actually all there reasons you want them active.

P.s. The Drones have multiple sensors and the failure of one does no/t necessarily mean that the case you are referring to will happen.

If the IR height sensor fails or is blinded by another IR source the drone will use its Accelerometers and barometer to determine that the reality is the drone has not suddenly fallen and requires an auto land. This will though be different for each drone model and its Firmware.

Think this over for a second. Why do these drones hover so precisely?
1) Uses downward vision sensor to do optiflow stability if at low enough altitude.
2) Uses GPS (Only Marginally accurate) and the accelerometers to detect horizontal movement.
3) Uses Barometer and Accelerometers to measure vertical movement.

So you need to consider what the impact of disables sensor trade-offs actually are for safety and control.

  

bjr981s Posted at 6-16 22:34
You do know that there are 2 different downward sensors? With 2 different discrete functions.

All the situations that I read here for why you want to disable these sensors are actually all there reasons you want them active.

If the IR height sensor fails or is blinded by another IR source the drone will use its Accelerometers and barometer to determine that the reality is the drone has not suddenly fallen and requires an auto land.
Can you explain that in different words?
I can't work out what you mean.

Think this over for a second. Why do these drones hover so precisely?
1) Uses downward vision sensor to do optiflow stability if at low enough altitude.
2) Uses GPS (Only Marginally accurate) and the accelerometers to detect horizontal movement.
3) Uses Barometer and Accelerometers to measure vertical movement.
Yes ... that's all true, but it doesn't explain why you are advocating leaving the sensors active.

So you need to consider what the impact of disables sensor trade-offs actually are for safety and control.
When I disable the downward sensors on my Phantom, it's perfectly safe to fly that way.
Why would it be any different with my Mavic?

bjr981s Posted at 6-16 22:34
You do know that there are 2 different downward sensors? With 2 different discrete functions.

All the situations that I read here for why you want to disable these sensors are actually all there reasons you want them active.

Hi,

"if the IR height sensor fails or is blinded by another IR source the drone will use its Accelerometers and barometer to determine that the reality is the drone has not suddenly fallen and requires an auto land."

What do mean ? Problem with the IR sensor is that for some reason this sensor "measures" 0.5 meter of false height, plus the DJI software is nor clever enough to understand that this is a false reading (flying outside its range and.or baro height > its range)
False reading is used wrongly  ssee post #26.
VPS height = 0.5 meter AND 100% stick down for short moment = AUTOLANDING (despite barometer and acc meter values)


Yes i know all about sensors DJI drones and the signals usage within the software.

See post#26 for one reason to have the option to disable the bottom sensor wich measures height.
The landing protection height of 0.5 meter is for DJI drones a great feature. (uh, in the GoApp possible to disable!)
But flying with a messured height of 0.5 mtr (false or true) AND 100% RC stick down will force the drone into an autolanding.Nice to have but not oke when this is triggerd flying at 100 meter baro height (or any other height > bottom sensor height sensor range. Or flying low above water (pilot wants to get even lower = into autolanding = probably a wet drone)
Or autolanding pops in flying at any speed (not wanted to land) while lowering the craft....
Not all new pilots know this, few drones are lost/crashed beacuse of this. Only way to cancel this autolanding is momentarily UP stick. But if you are not aware of your craft being in autolanding....oke, you have missed the audio but in a noisy envirioment it is easy to miss audio warnings.

All my arguments i wrote in this thread are not commented by you, no need to further discuss ofcourse from my side.

answers on your 1,2,3

1) Nah, with GPS enabled and enough lighting the Vision Position is active but not used, so it does not add more stability to the hover.

2) GPS is precise enough to keep craft in steady hover. Misunderstanding about GPS accurancy is that when you plot the position of the craft (flightlog GPS data) on the map ; position can be meters away from the true actual postion. But any horizontal move is noticed by the GPS, see the precision after the .dot in LatLon data.
Acc meters measures the speed of change of position, needed for the correct amount of steer back correction.

Flying at night ; your DJI drone hovers rock steady ; while VPS doing nothing!Hover at low height to 120 meters height, UP command only ; drone keeps position really accurate!  do you see any difference in stability when in>out of vision range??

3) Barometer mesasures vertical movement, acc meters as said in #2.


So i am totally aware of the consequences to disable to VPS bottom sensor, thus only this sensor!
And why against it as i propose it as an option with a user prompt to disable?

From the MM2 manual
With GPS signal strong > craft uses GPS to locate and stabilize
With GPS signal is weak > crfat uses Downward Vision to locate and stabilize (good lightning conditions)



cheers
JJB

JJB* Posted at 6-17 00:01
Hi,

"if the IR height sensor fails or is blinded by another IR source the drone will use its Accelerometers and barometer to determine that the reality is the drone has not suddenly fallen and requires an auto land."

Two other times it would be helpful to be able to disable VPS

1.  To be able to fly higher than 3 metres when indoors or GPS-denied environments
2.  To be able to descend normally when fog, VPS false data etc slows the descent rate to a crawl.

Labroides Posted at 6-17 03:09
Two other times it would be helpful to be able to disable VPS

1.  To be able to fly higher than 3 metres when indoors or GPS-denied environments

Finally DJI corrected the table in the manual....but only for MINI3 pro
Weak GPS and enough lightning : max height is 30 meters.
But fun to read that if both are inperative : again 30 meters....
Same for mini2, ma2 ect   but not correct in their manuals.

cheers
JJB

Labroides Posted at 6-16 22:47
If the IR height sensor fails or is blinded by another IR source the drone will use its Accelerometers and barometer to determine that the reality is the drone has not suddenly fallen and requires an auto land.
Can you explain that in different words?
I can't work out what you mean.

If the IR height sensor fails or is blinded by another IR source the drone will use its Accelerometers and barometer to determine that the reality is the drone has not suddenly fallen and requires an auto land.
Can you explain that in different words?
I can't work out what you mean.

It means that the firmware is not reliant on a single sensor. It uses the sum of information from all sensors to make a decision.


Think this over for a second. Why do these drones hover so precisely?
1) Uses downward vision sensor to do optiflow stability if at low enough altitude.
2) Uses GPS (Only Marginally accurate) and the accelerometers to detect horizontal movement.
3) Uses Barometer and Accelerometers to measure vertical movement.
Yes ... that's all true, but it doesn't explain why you are advocating leaving the sensors active.

Because if you read the other posts here on why that want to disable the downward sensors you will find things like I want to be able to precisely land on the spot when wind blowing etc.

Disable downward sensor will cause drone to be less stable in the wind.

So you need to consider what the impact of disables sensor trade-offs actually are for safety and control.
When I disable the downward sensors on my Phantom, it's perfectly safe to fly that way.
Why would it be any different with my Mavic?

Because the Mavic is safer than the Phantom for beginners. Phantom is no longer being sold and DJI are reacting to the capability of new drone pilots, new drone products and trying to protect newbies. DJI does not like getting bad press and bad press about everything is what they get. Why add to it by making it easer for newbies with a on/off switch and crash their drone. Newbies love to think they re experts and try everything. Most of the time they cant fly their drone without the automation. Go buy yourself an RC helicopter and you will understand what I am talking about.

bjr981s Posted at 6-17 19:16
If the IR height sensor fails or is blinded by another IR source the drone will use its Accelerometers and barometer to determine that the reality is the drone has not suddenly fallen and requires an auto land.
Can you explain that in different words?
I can't work out what you mean.

Thanks for responding, but none of that answers my questions.
From what you said, I'm not sure you understood why people want to be able to disable the downward sensors.

Your point about DJI bringing everything down to beginner level seems pointless when you can't disable the downward sensors of their $3000 pro level Mavic 3.
Which means you can't fly higher than 3 metres in a GPS-denied environment or to get the drone to come down when fog or a VPS malfunction, slows the descent to  snail's pace.

Most of the time they cant fly their drone  without the automation. Go buy yourself an RC helicopter and you will  understand what I am talking about.
Despite your dismissive attitude, there are plenty of flyers who do understand more than the basics.
And there's no need to fly an RC helicopter to have a detailed understanding of advanced drone flying.

For what it's worth, I'll add my voice to the chorus calling for the ability to disable downward sensors on the M3 line.

I own and am most familiar with M2P, but I'm often supplied with a M3 for shoots. The inability to turn off downward sensing makes them horrible to hand catch, which for my line of filming is often the only way of landing them. Typically this is happening in a thick jungle understory, or on a cliff face, or on a boat that's bobbing up and down in ocean swell. Situations where hand catching is the only choice.

Any safety incidents I've had with the M3 have come about directly as a result of me not being able to hand catch, which is a consequence of not being able to disable downward sensing.

This is the single factor that has stopped me from upgrading to a M3. I'd almost been tempted to buy the fancy new M3P, until yesterday's incident trying to land an M3 on a steep mountainside in high wind. The aircraft control abilities of M2P still remain superior.

hallmark007 Posted at 2022-6-16 01:56
As somebody who flies off boats I also would like the option, but I have experienced turning it off with P4 pro, then not remembering I had it turned off and had a couple of hard landings. But yes some kind of option could be better.

Perhaps options could be to disable for 10/30/60/300secs or indefinitely.

trainee Posted at 5-16 02:10
Perhaps options could be to disable for 10/30/60'...180 seconds'

I think that is an EXTREMELY good idea.

nOxxxx Posted at 2022-6-15 02:17
You can temporarily cover the sensors with tape, or turn off the appropriate parameter (It is necessary to know secret knowledge).

Care to share the secret knowledge of which parameter to change and how to do it?

JJB* Posted at 2022-6-15 02:20
Hi Stephen,

Why do you never react seriously on experienced remote pilots?

Good point. I've seen that video. They should at least mention that the downward sensor disable function is only on older models.

djiuser_4TLkdQSeEXB4 Posted at 3-13 12:07
Good point. I've seen that video. They should at least mention that the downward sensor disable function is only on older models.

They should at least mention that the downward sensor disable function is only on older models.
DJI introduced the ability to disable the downward sensors in a firmware update a few months back.

Labroides Posted at 2022-6-14 23:08
Switching to sports mode seems to disable the downward camera.
No
The VPS is still operating when the drone is in Sport Mode.

Why be insulting? Maybe you should stick to talking about drones and not be an A$$ hole?!