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Mavic 3 Forced Landing and Flight Log
3849 18 2022-7-18
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Tillikum
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Hi,
I've had a problem with a "forced landing" and almost lost my drone in the ocean.   I would like to upload the flight log,  but it is a ".txt" file and the DJI forum "attachment"  function says that the file is not compatible.   

Can anyone tell me how to upload the flight record ?

thank you,

Tim




2022-7-18
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Labroides
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Go to: https://www.phantomhelp.com/LogViewer/Upload/
... where you'll find instructions to upload the data to that site and it will give a report
For help interpreting the data you can post a link for the report here.
Or just post the .txt file as an attachment.
2022-7-18
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DJI Stephen
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Hello there Tim. I am sorry for the trouble this has caused and thank you for reaching out. May we please know if you have received any error message on the DJI Fly application when this issue happened? Just a reminder that when flying above the water, the vision positioning function will turn off automatically and only the GPS and barometer are used for positioning, if affected by the accuracy range, and an accident might happen. Thank you.
2022-7-20
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Tillikum
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DJI Stephen Posted at 7-20 19:18
Hello there Tim. I am sorry for the trouble this has caused and thank you for reaching out. May we please know if you have received any error message on the DJI Fly application when this issue happened? Just a reminder that when flying above the water, the vision positioning function will turn off automatically and only the GPS and barometer are used for positioning, if affected by the accuracy range, and an accident might happen. Thank you.

Thanks for the response Stephen.   There were not any other error messages that I’m aware of.  
2022-7-20
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GaryDoug
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Tillikum Posted at 7-20 20:07
Thanks for the response Stephen.   There were not any other error messages that I’m aware of.

Follow Labroides advice and do it. He is far better at analysis than any DJI web mod here. Most of us members are anyway!
2022-7-20
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CloudVisual
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When you say 'Forced Landing' do you mean the Landing Protection, where the drone decides that it will take over the landing process and in DJI Fly there is no way to turn it off.

Landing Protection does nothing to protect the drone, takes away the landing controls from operators and only serves to make it more dangerous in some scenarios. For the millionth time, DJI needs to let us decide if we want this setting on or off.
2022-7-20
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JJB*
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CloudVisual Posted at 7-20 23:38
When you say 'Forced Landing' do you mean the Landing Protection, where the drone decides that it will take over the landing process and in DJI Fly there is no way to turn it off.

Landing Protection does nothing to protect the drone, takes away the landing controls from operators and only serves to make it more dangerous in some scenarios. For the millionth time, DJI needs to let us decide if we want this setting on or off.

asked many many times ; DJI will not give remote pilots this option.

Landing Protection does work too with any speed....who want to land a drone flying 10 m/s ?

cheers
JJB
2022-7-21
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JJB*
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DJI Stephen Posted at 7-20 19:18
Hello there Tim. I am sorry for the trouble this has caused and thank you for reaching out. May we please know if you have received any error message on the DJI Fly application when this issue happened? Just a reminder that when flying above the water, the vision positioning function will turn off automatically and only the GPS and barometer are used for positioning, if affected by the accuracy range, and an accident might happen. Thank you.

Hi Stephen,

And again you post this outdated link!!  why ?

FlyApp drones cannot disable the VPS bottem sensor!!

And the vision positioning is not turned off automatically flying over water!
And what do you mean with "...affected by the accuranct range, an accident might happen" ?? It is so wrong!

I fly many times low over water, VPS bottom sensor does sense alway the correct height.Only when flying slow or hovering low over streaming water the VPS downward sensor gets sometimes "confused"....
Well, just my experience flying many many flights low over water.
And, analyzing logs, you can see that the vision is not used for positioning when the GPS signals are oke. (see the manuals as well ....)

Best for DJI is to change the autolanding protection such that it will automatically turns off with some speed in any direction! This has caused many wet drones....

Cheers
JJB
2022-7-21
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Tillikum
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Agreed, there should be some way to disable “auto-landing” or “forced landing”.   Ideally, you should be able to turn off the downward sensors, but failing that, you should at least be able to terminate the “air-landing” sequence.  Many people fly over water even if not from boats and this is a major shortcoming with DJI Mavic 3 drones.  
2022-7-21
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Tillikum Posted at 7-21 08:40
Agreed, there should be some way to disable “auto-landing” or “forced landing”.   Ideally, you should be able to turn off the downward sensors, but failing that, you should at least be able to terminate the “air-landing” sequence.  Many people fly over water even if not from boats and this is a major shortcoming with DJI Mavic 3 drones.

Hi,

Flying at downward sensor height of 0.5 meter AND 100% down stick = inititate a landing with landing protection.To cancel this > full UP stick for short moment.

Autolanding (followed after RTH or user requested) can be cancelled by press on the pause btn.

The only landing wich cannot be cancelled is the critical battery landing, but by UP stick possible to cilmb instead of landing....

cheers
JJB

2022-7-21
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Labroides
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Tillikum Posted at 7-21 08:40
Agreed, there should be some way to disable “auto-landing” or “forced landing”.   Ideally, you should be able to turn off the downward sensors, but failing that, you should at least be able to terminate the “air-landing” sequence.  Many people fly over water even if not from boats and this is a major shortcoming with DJI Mavic 3 drones.

If you post your flight data, following the instructions in post #2, we'll be able to find the explanation for your incident.

As already mentioned you can cancel an autolanding.
2022-7-21
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Tillikum
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Labroides Posted at 7-21 12:26
If you post your flight data, following the instructions in post #2, we'll be able to find the explanation for your incident.

As already mentioned you can cancel an autolanding.

https://www.phantomhelp.com/logviewer/11B31G960YUA05TXLVIO/

This is the flight log.   At approx 4m8s,  it changed to "P-GPS" mode,  and then to "forced landing".  What is P-GPS ?  Looking at this,  it seems like I fail to go "full up" on the left stick after this point,  which presumably would have cancelled the forced landing.  I probably panicked and was focused on getting it back to the side of the boat, hence the full sideways stick.

In any case,  I'm wondering what triggered this, since the discrepancy between VPS alt and IMU altitude occurred at 3m30s,  roughly 40 seconds before forced landing was initiated ?

In the end,  I'm trying to determine if using catch handle when flying from the boat is relatively safe. I tried without the handle and got my fingers in the props, then crash landed on the deck, nearly going into the water -   so the the stick catching method is way easier with the stick on a rolling boat.  I've subsequently tested it  with and without the stick on land and found that using the stick (surprisingly) caused an error to the IMU altitude rather than the VPS altitude.  However,  that was not borne out in the attached flight record where the IMU was correct and VPS was wrong.  Perhaps it the sensors react differently to the stick interference when over water ?

Attached are pictures of the stick mount.

Any further input would be much appreciated.







2022-7-21
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Labroides
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Tillikum Posted at 7-21 14:34
https://www.phantomhelp.com/logviewer/11B31G960YUA05TXLVIO/

This is the flight log.   At approx 4m8s,  it changed to "P-GPS" mode,  and then to "forced landing".  What is P-GPS ?  Looking at this,  it seems like I fail to go "full up" on the left stick after this point,  which presumably would have cancelled the forced landing.  I probably panicked and was focused on getting it back to the side of the boat, hence the full sideways stick.

What is P-GPS ?
P-GPS iswhat DJI now calls Normal Mode.
It shows briefly because teh drone switched out of Tripod Mode to enter Autolanding.

Looking at this,  it seems like I fail to go "full up" on the left stick after this point,  which presumably would have cancelled the forced landing.

That's correct

In any case,  I'm wondering what triggered this, since the discrepancy between VPS alt and IMU altitude occurred at 3m30s,  roughly 40 seconds before forced landing was initiated ?
VPS height is the height of the drone above whatever is below it as detected by the VPS sensors.
IMU height is the height relative to the launch point measured by the barometric sensor.
It's quite normal for there to be a difference when the drone flies over something higher than the launch point.

The VPS sensors have a limited range and when they are beyond this, they show N/A.
It's not a problem to fly low over something and landing protection will protect you from accidentally crashing into whatever is below the drone.
As you get very close, it will resist descent.
If you have to hold the left stick down hard for long enough to make the drone switch to autolanding.
It's easy to check how this works when you land normally on dry land.
It's you that forces the drone to cancel the landing protection and autoland.

In the end,  I'm trying to determine if using catch handle when flying from the boat is relatively safe.
In this flight, the VPS height only shows when the IMU height is <67 ft at launch and <22 ft at the end of the flight.
There are some warning messages that say: Low environmental visibility. Fly with caution.
This usually indicates an issue with fog or mist and this can also affect VPS height measurement.
On descending your VPS only starts showing very low numbers rather than N/A from 3:35.5, when you descended <22 ft.
If the VPS is seeing the stick, you'd expect that to show up right through the flight, rather than just at low altitude.
So this might be a result of mist or fog rather than VPS seeing the stick?
I suspect this was the issue.

I've subsequently tested it  with and without the stick on land and found that using the stick (surprisingly) caused an error to the IMU altitude rather than the VPS altitude.
However,  that was not borne out in the attached flight record where the IMU was correct and VPS was wrong.  Perhaps it the sensors react differently to the stick interference when over water ?

That's odd .. It should have no effect at all on the IMU altitude which comes from measuring the air pressure.
The stick shouldn't change air pressure at the IMU sensor inside the drone, but if it's visible to the downward facing sensors, it will give false low altitude data.
Flying over water makes no difference to the way the sensors work.

Some more testing on dry land would be a good idea to confirm whether the VPS is seeing the stick and that IMU height is about right.  (Small variances in IMU height are common and normal over the duration of a flight).
2022-7-21
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Tillikum
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Labroides Posted at 7-21 18:22
What is P-GPS ?
P-GPS iswhat DJI now calls Normal Mode.
It shows briefly because teh drone switched out of Tripod Mode to enter Autolanding.

thank you for your excellent advice on this.  As regards the discrepancy that occurred on land,  the IMU reading was about 6’ higher than VPS when hand launched.   Based on you comments, I can now see that this would be due to elevated launch position when using the stick vs launching from the ground without the stick, so that mystery is solved.  

As regards the faulty VPS altitude over water, it was in fact a foggy day.   I guess I assumed that the sensors would see through the fog, but apparently not. So I guess the fog would be to blame for the low altitude VPS reading, and hence, the forced landing.

As regards forced landing abort procedure,  had I gone full up on left stick,  would it go back to forced landing as soon as I let go of the left stick ?

thanks for your help with this.   
2022-7-21
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Labroides
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Tillikum Posted at 7-21 19:42
thank you for your excellent advice on this.  As regards the discrepancy that occurred on land,  the IMU reading was about 6’ higher than VPS when hand launched.   Based on you comments, I can now see that this would be due to elevated launch position when using the stick vs launching from the ground without the stick, so that mystery is solved.  

As regards the faulty VPS altitude over water, it was in fact a foggy day.   I guess I assumed that the sensors would see through the fog, but apparently not. So I guess the fog would be to blame for the low altitude VPS reading, and hence, the forced landing.

As regards forced landing abort procedure,  had I gone full up on left stick,  would it go back to forced landing as soon as I let go of the left stick ?
It should cancel the forced landing .. try it out on dry land to get a feel for it.

The catch handle could make boat launch/landings easier.
I always hand caught my Phantom 4 pro, but it's not so easy with the Mavic 3.
I wonder how much it affects top speed/wind resistance?

What kind of boat are you launching from?
2022-7-21
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Tillikum
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Labroides Posted at 7-21 19:53
As regards forced landing abort procedure,  had I gone full up on left stick,  would it go back to forced landing as soon as I let go of the left stick ?
It should cancel the forced landing .. try it out on dry land to get a feel for it.


I’m launching from a 47’ sailboat and it is very hard to hand catch without a handle.   

I don’t know about top speed but it doesn’t seem to affect speed.   With my Mavic 2 there was a pretty big reduction in flight time, but it seems like very little impact on flight time with the Mavic 3.
2022-7-21
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CloudVisual
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Geez, that drone must struggle in a breeze with that giant stick connected to it.

My advice is that you need to practice hand catches on land until you can pretty much do it without much thought. The best way to do it is to underbelly pinch it out of the air and then throttle down to cut the motors, but be prepared for it to want to fly away, so hold on tight. Worst case, flip it upside down and it'll cut the motors. Grab the underbelly and there is plenty of room for your fingers, I'm impressed that you managed to catch them, given the space that's there.

I've done this hundreds of times with the M3 at sea and with practice it's fairly simple. I would say that challenging sea conditions will make things harder though, but in those cases it's best to land earlier than you would and plan ahead for how you'll land it. For very tricky conditions, hover the drone above the water and bring the boat to the drone and grab it when it's above you. If you fly the drone to a boat which is moving a lot you will end up overshooting and become disorientated when both the boat and drone are moving.
2022-7-22
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Labroides
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Catch landing on a moving boat is so much more complicated than landlubbers can imagine.
You definitely need enough battery to allow for several attempts.
2022-7-22
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CloudVisual
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Labroides Posted at 7-22 00:10
Catch landing on a moving boat is so much more complicated than landlubbers can imagine.
You definitely need enough battery for several attempts.

DJI could make it so much easier by allowing Atti mode and disabling landing protection, it's as if they want people to crash and lose their drones.
2022-7-22
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