Most yours fly are VLOS or BVLOS? how do you think?
If you have RC Pro while watching the screen not the aircraft during flight its BVLOS IMO, until there is no companion / buddy with you to do so.
If i want to record something i ask my buddy for help, if i just want to train flying skills than im doing it with VLOS, i mosty fly to record something.
What about you?

not relevant my mistake

Sean-bumble-bee Posted at 8-7 04:31
A poll will not resolve this, there is nothing we or any forum can resolve. The law is the law.
If push comes to shove it is what your air space authority means by the rules that matters or, in the worst possible case, what a court  of law decides it means. It can be debated and argued all you want here but that matters not.

I was waiting for you with this thread, do you use your RC Pro Controller? Do you look at your screen while flying and recording or you engage other persons like me?
I assume you follow the rules, or you disagree and you look at your screen alone but you can identify your aircraft in the air due to short distance?
The moment of truth
Another thing, with proper qualifications in certain circumstances BVLOS flights are also allowed in most of countries

not relevant my mistake

Agree
I am going to get certified soon
https://edziennik.ulc.gov.pl/DU_ULC/2020/73/akt.pdf

At this point I have to hold my hands up and say I have just realised I misinterrpreted  your opening post. Apologies.

BVLOS at mostly over water

The rule is the rule, but the truth is the truth. Really doubt if many people, if any, actually fly a camera drone within VLOS, or fly with a buddy. Those who say they do are the ones who tell people they never lie.

Thats why we should consider to qualify specific category, in my country its about 300$ and i prefer to fly cheap MINI2 but legit BVLOS than pay for Air 2S and be restricted to VLOS and observers. On the other hand - if you not hurt anybody and do not inflict any damage that mean you fly safe, all the rules are made to keep safety. Ill be soon qualified but still unexperienced and more dangerous for environment than sombody who has practical skills due to hours and hours spent on flying, thats the truth.  Half a year and i will be probably trained to teach another people (60 hours BVLOS), thats quite fast IMO but legally possible, maybe ill try this.

I didn't answer your poll, because I wasn't sure what specific question you were asking.

I fly in the USA, and the FAA rules on this are at least a bit ambiguous.

My interpretation of the rule is that you have to be able to see the drone at all times, but you don't have to stare at it. So, even if you spend most of the time looking at the screen, as long as you can see the drone at any time by looking up at it, you're legally VLOS.

Other interpretations of the regs are possible. However, the EFFECTIVE law is a combination of the raw text of the law, any relevant court cases, and the enforcement decisions of the FAA out in the field. What I described above is absolutely consistent with effective law in the USA for VLOS.

I have not heard of single case, not one, where someone got busted for looking at their screen even most of the time, as long as they could also look up and see the drone at any time.

This is, of course, a very intelligent enforcement decision by the FAA.

TCS

Hello there fateofangel. Good day and thank you for creating this post. Just a reminder that being able to actually see your DJI Drone while flying without the use of any visual aids, binoculars is considered as Visual Line of Sight ( VLOS ). If you can not longer see the said drone in flight, that is simply beyond your VLOS. DJI highly recommend to follow the rules and regulations when flying your DJI Drones to avoid an untoward incidents. Thank you.

Chaosrider Posted at 8-7 15:02
I didn't answer your poll, because I wasn't sure what specific question you were asking.

I fly in the USA, and the FAA rules on this are at least a bit ambiguous.

i used to interpretate that like you, but during getting more education i think its not obvious and as you say it does not matter - until something very bad could happen
https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/visual-line-of-sight-vlos

Chaosrider Posted at 8-7 15:02
I didn't answer your poll, because I wasn't sure what specific question you were asking.

I fly in the USA, and the FAA rules on this are at least a bit ambiguous.

My question was:
Most yours fly are VLOS or BVLOS? how do you think?
- what is your sense / opinion vote + description / comment

In EU VLOS is limited to 500m even if you can still see it.   Odd eh.

fateofangel Posted at 8-7 21:31
i used to interpretate that like you, but during getting more education i think its not obvious and as you say it does not matter - until something very bad could happen
https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/visual-line-of-sight-vlos

Probabilities rule, possibilities drool!

:-)

TCS

fateofangel Posted at 8-7 21:34
My question was:
Most yours fly are VLOS or BVLOS? how do you think?
- what is your sense / opinion vote + description / comment

There was some uncertainty in my mind about what definition of VLOS you were using.

Using the "able to see" definition, most of my flights are VLOS compliant. That's why I put Firehouse strobes on all of my drones...so I can see them!

Thx,

TCS

DAFlys Posted at 8-7 22:29
In EU VLOS is limited to 500m even if you can still see it.   Odd eh.

In the USA, there's some fragmentary evidence that suggests that the FAA is using 2 km (1.2 mi) as the presumptive limit for being beyond VLOS.

I know of no case where anyone has been busted under the VLOS rule for a flight of less than that distance.

It's a good rule, informal though it is.

Thx,

TCS

Looking at your screen while flying is “NOT” BVLOS. BVLOS is when its not possible to see your drone in the air. Its very easy to become accustomed to looking from screen to your aircraft as it flys so long as it remains within your VLOS and this is the way most experienced drone users fly all the time.

Using a buddy while it might be helpful to you its not something that will cover you to fly beyond your VLOS. The only aids you can use within the drone rules are your eyes and glasses, except when flying FPV where you need to have a buddy.

Flying VLOS is simply keeping the drone within you vision line of sight , not continually looking at the drone.

Chaosrider Posted at 8-8 06:56
In the USA, there's some fragmentary evidence that suggests that the FAA is using 2 km (1.2 mi) as the presumptive limit for being beyond VLOS.

I know of no case where anyone has been busted under the VLOS rule for a flight of less than that distance.

VLOS is not a set distance , in fact it would be impossible to set a distance and call it VLOS for all. Its simply a guide for all to fly their drone in a safe manner that “they” can view at all times.

DAFlys Posted at 8-7 22:29
In EU VLOS is limited to 500m even if you can still see it.   Odd eh.

VLOS does not have a limit. But flying your drone does have a limit. If your VLOS is only 100m thats as far as you should fly your drone under the rules.

hallmark007 Posted at 8-14 02:10
VLOS does not have a limit. But flying your drone does have a limit. If your VLOS is only 100m thats as far as you should fly your drone under the rules.

It was guidance from the CAA.  infact I seem to recall they recommend you file for permission beyond that.  

Monkey007 Posted at 8-7 11:29
The rule is the rule, but the truth is the truth. Really doubt if many people, if any, actually fly a camera drone within VLOS, or fly with a buddy. Those who say they do are the ones who tell people they never lie.

“Those who say they do are the ones who tell people they never lie.”

I don’t think its a them or us thing, and there is nothing wrong with those who aspire to fly within the rules. Some do some don’t, those who do or don't follow the rules and feel the need to publish it are open to comment by others for whatever reasons.
But the majority of users of these drones use them for video/photography etc and believe me as one of them its a lot easier to get better photos and video if you can control you drone and can actually see where it is than flying BVLOS when its just as easy to walk drive etc to be closer to the subject your photographing or videoing.

Its not a contest of those who fly VLOS or BVLOS so generalizing about who lies or doesn’t is not fair really.

DAFlys Posted at 8-14 02:18
It was guidance from the CAA.  infact I seem to recall they recommend you file for permission beyond that.

Yes but in almost every country in the world VLOS is a rule and its a completely separate rule to the distance limit set out IE 400m /500m distance allowed to fly.

hallmark007 Posted at 8-14 02:23
“Those who say they do are the ones who tell people they never lie.”

I don’t think its a them or us thing, and there is nothing wrong with those who aspire to fly within the rules. Some do some don’t, those who do or don't follow the rules and feel the need to publish it are open to comment by others for whatever reasons.

Ok forum police, whatever you say is correct

hallmark007 Posted at 8-14 02:27
Yes but in almost every country in the world VLOS is a rule and its a completely separate rule to the distance limit set out IE 400m /500m distance allowed to fly.

I think that was my point though.  

hallmark007 Posted at 8-14 02:10
VLOS does not have a limit. But flying your drone does have a limit. If your VLOS is only 100m thats as far as you should fly your drone under the rules.

• In EU FPV flies are limited to 500m
• According to EASA 2km (1.2mil) i max distance during standard BVLOS scenarios - you need NSTS > 4 competence to plan a mission
• UAVO can only look at screen too check flight parameters to keep VLOS rule, thats why any observer is very helpfull
• 
  

hallmark007 Posted at 8-14 02:23
“Those who say they do are the ones who tell people they never lie.”

I don’t think its a them or us thing, and there is nothing wrong with those who aspire to fly within the rules. Some do some don’t, those who do or don't follow the rules and feel the need to publish it are open to comment by others for whatever reasons.

I agree that, thats why law rules should be customized to us - users to keep better safety. Probably there is no enough of trust people will fly safely BVLOS, and they care more about simply cover their azzaz with more restriction rules instead of deeply consideration about shape of regulations

Monkey007 Posted at 8-14 02:54
Ok forum police, whatever you say is correct

I think you are the only forum police here on this thread as it was you who brought this up. But it seems you are only interested in smart comments.

fateofangel Posted at 8-14 05:11

In EU FPV flies are limited to 500m

According to EASA 2km (1.2mil) i max distance during standard BVLOS scenarios - you need NSTS > 4 competence to plan a mission

UAVO can only look at screen too check flight parameters to keep VLOS rule, thats why any observer is very helpfull

Your quoting professional and SOP rules but your thread is aimed at hobbyists etc.

BVLOS even with SOP will only allow spotter as long as you are in direct contact with him/her no phones hand signals. Very few drone operators will be given permission to exceed these rules.

fateofangel Posted at 8-14 05:16
I agree that, thats why law rules should be customized to us - users to keep better safety. Probably there is no enough of trust people will fly safely BVLOS, and they care more about simply cover their azzaz with more restriction rules instead of deeply consideration about shape of regulations

There was discussion regarding EVLOS becoming a rule , extended vision line of sight for those who could see further than 500m which is quite possible with bigger drones etc, but I don’t hear too much about it just now.

hallmark007 Posted at 8-14 06:00
There was discussion regarding EVLOS becoming a rule , extended vision line of sight for those who could see further than 500m which is quite possible with bigger drones etc, but I don’t hear too much about it just now.

for those who could see further than 500m which is quite possible with bigger drones
That would be VLOS

This explains what EVLOS actually is:
https://aviassist.com.au/extende ... s-expands-horizons/

hallmark007 Posted at 8-14 05:51
Your quoting professional and SOP rules but your thread is aimed at hobbyists etc.

BVLOS even with SOP will only allow spotter as long as you are in direct contact with him/her no phones hand signals. Very few drone operators will be given permission to exceed these rules.

I cannot agree, it my depend on country but in mine all my BVLOS missions where accepted even without spotter.
There is no hobbistic FPV, you need NSTS-01 to practice it legally, me thread is genral but generally more of operators are not FPV users

Labroides Posted at 8-14 06:42
for those who could see further than 500m which is quite possible with bigger drones
That would be VLOS

now i am asking what about people with glasses?if VLOS is unaided visual contact
THEY SHOULD take them off before flying
to follow the rule of law Sean-Bumble-Bee
https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/visual-line-of-sight-vlos

fateofangel Posted at 8-14 07:05
now i am asking what about people with glasses?if VLOS is unaided visual contact
THEY SHOULD take them off before flying
to follow the rule of law Sean-Bumble-Bee

If you looked at actual rules instead of guessing, you'd see that eyeglasses are allowed.
It would be ridiculous if they weren't.

fateofangel Posted at 8-14 07:00
I cannot agree, it my depend on country but in mine all my BVLOS missions where accepted even without spotter.
There is no hobbistic FPV, you need NSTS-01 to practice it legally, me thread is genral but generally more of operators are not FPV users

Accepted without a spotter. What is that “how do you get accepted for these flights. Certainly almost everywhere else in Europe you would need SOP plus risk assessment to allow for BVLOS missions.

What are polish rules from what I read they are very similar to the rest of Europe.

The remote pilot will maintain a visual line of sight (VLOS) or the remote pilot will be assisted by a UA observer.
The remote pilot will not operate the drone above 120m (400ft).

Poland.
Drones cannot be flown above 150 meters (492 feet).
Drone pilots must maintain a visual line of sight with their drone during drone operations.

fateofangel Posted at 8-14 07:05
now i am asking what about people with glasses?if VLOS is unaided visual contact THEY SHOULD take them off before flying to follow the rule of law Sean-Bumble-Bee

The rules I have read and cite specifically include the use of spectacles as acceptable.

In general that would be for people who are nearsighted and need spectacles to see distant objects clearly.

On the other hand people like myself, who are farsighted, need spectacles to read the screen but not to see the drone, within my VLOS, at distance.

I perch my spectacles on the end of my nose so that I can look over them to see the drone and look through them to read the screen.

"Unaided" as used in the rules, refers to the use of optical instrument designed to magnify the image of distant object i.e. telescopes and binoculars.

hallmark007 Posted at 8-14 07:27
Accepted without a spotter. What is that “how do you get accepted for these flights. Certainly almost everywhere else in Europe you would need SOP plus risk assessment to allow for BVLOS missions.

What are polish rules from what I read they are very similar to the rest of Europe.

It may vary with the mission area, where have you planned yours? in suburbs? how big area of operation?

I use PDRA instead of SORA i fly unpopulated areas

Labroides Posted at 8-14 07:24
If you looked at actual rules instead of guessing, you'd see that eyeglasses are allowed.
It would be ridiculous if they weren't.

so please point where are those rules wiritten

Sean-bumble-bee Posted at 8-14 08:51
The rules I have read and cite specifically include the use of spectacles as acceptable.

In general that would be for people who are nearsighted and need spectacles to see distant objects clearly.

i was joiking abut spectacles but before 2018 to fly a drone in my cuntry you had to have multiple medical examinations, many f.e heart or lungs malfunctions could exclude you from certification