Hi folks, i know that there are 2, Emergency and whatever the other one is, I always set mine to emergency cause heck, why else would you put the sticks in that position?

Anyhoo, i went to test it from the lowest possible height, just above some soft green ferny type weed so there would have been a lovely soft landing, so, the sticks assumed the position and straight away the AC proceeded to move away from the test bed, so I let go as it hadn't initiated the actually shut down. I tried this 3 times and each time it did the exact same. So i assume that this is normal behaviour and had I left it long enough it would have shut down the props, but the question is, how much further does it travel before the shutdown occurs? what's the point of an emergency shutdown if its going to move position prior to shutting down? If I need to use CSC it is because of something entering the flight area, i really do not need the AC moving closer to the infiltrator.

Before you ask, yes, both sticks were moved at the exact time.

Hello there Bashy. Good day and thank you for giving out these information. Just a friendly reminder that the DJI Mini 3 Pro's motors can be stopped mid-flight anytime once the pilot performs a combination stick command ( CSC ). Stopping the motor in mid-flight will cause the aircraft to crash. In addition I will post an additional information about the CSC. Thank you and fly safe always.

It should surely travel in a 'circle'/descending-helix, set the flight mode to the slowest setting, that it will reduce the speed of movement.
Alternatively hand hold the drone, rev the motors fo flying speed, enough that it fights you and does try to fly out of your grip, DON'T LET IT, then wobble the drone reasonably vigorously such that it thinks it is in turbulent air and, whilst doing that, use the other hand to put the sticks in the CSC position.
In emergency mode I very much doubt the motors will be stopped.
Switch the to alternative setting and do the hand holding / wobbling thing again and I think you will find the motors stop very quickly i.e.within 1 to 2 seconds.
I did the above with the Mavic Mini and the M2P/Z.
Don't wobble the Mini 3 for too long, it might not like the poor air flow and heat generation.
I also suspended the Mavic mini from a thread and pulley system that had the thread weighted at its far end to keep the thead just taut and therefore clear of the props and the 'launched' and flew=hovered the drone indoors and did the CSC tests.

Sean-bumble-bee Posted at 8-19 22:14
It should surely travel in a 'circle'/descending-helix, set the flight mode to the slowest setting, that it will reduce the speed of movement.
Alternatively hand hold the drone, rev the motors fo flying speed, enough that it fights you and does try to fly out of your grip, DON'T LET IT, then wobble the drone reasonably vigorously such that it thinks it is in turbulent air and, whilst doing that, use the other hand to put the sticks in the CSC position.
In emergency mode I very much doubt the motors will be stopped.

You do know i am talking about during flight? Your reply seems wot be about in hand.

Yes I am aware you are concerned about 'what happens in flight'.  The hand held thing simulates flight since, if the movement is sufficient to cause the drone to fight you, it 'thinks' its flying.
The reverse of this is why your hand needs to be steady in a hand catch, move your hand too much and the motors will not shut down in a hand catch.....unless you do the 90deg flip/twist thing.

I also added another test to post 3, a tethered flight.

If you do any experiments involving the alternative setting, DO NOT FORGET to switch back to "emergency only" or whatever the name is.

Sean-bumble-bee Posted at 8-19 22:26
Yes I am aware you are concerned about 'what happens in flight'.  The hand held thing simulates flight since, if the movement is sufficient to cause the drone to fight you, it 'thinks' its flying.
The reverse of this is why your hand needs to be steady in a hand catch, move your hand too much and the motors will not shut down in a hand catch.....unless you do the 90deg flip/twist thing.

Oh, my bad, was you saying to test it whilst holding it..

I don't use that other setting, its always set to emergency, i don't even want to test the other setting, i find it pointless setting, but i suppose its ok for those that mess about with the sticks i suppose, but ya shouldn't be doing that anyway lol

It should shut the motors down when doing the emergency shut down but I guess the drone takes into account height, compass readings, imu etc before engaging this function as some pilots engage this movement by mistake. Have seen threads in the past where pilots crashed and when their logs were read the fault was the stick positions engaged emergency shutdown.

Bashy Posted at 8-20 00:01
Oh, my bad, was you saying to test it whilst holding it..

Yes

I did a hand catch this morning and flip and the props didnt turn off,.  so I did the CSC and they still didnt turn off,   I wonder if there is a new bug in this firmware.  

Suren Posted at 8-20 00:59
It should shut the motors down when doing the emergency shut down but I guess the drone takes into account height, compass readings, imu etc before engaging this function as some pilots engage this movement by mistake. Have seen threads in the past where pilots crashed and when their logs were read the fault was the stick positions engaged emergency shutdown.

Suren, I think the 'tests ', for "emergency only"  amount to
1) whether the drone thinks it has encountered an emergency (however that may be defined), if it does think it has encountered any emergency then it will stop the motors........but I think there is a fair chance it would already be falling at that point.
2) whether or not the drone thinks it is in flight, which may be defined as its accelerometers, or whatever, detecting movement. If the 'sensors' detect sufficient movement then the drone WILL NOT stop its motors

When, with the sticks in the CSC position, I stopped wobbling my hand during my "emergency only" experiments the motors stopped and the drone was at the same height as it had been whilst I had been wobbling my hand.

In all the logs that I have looked at, where a CSC was responsible for a mid air motor stop, those logs showed that the CSC response option had been set to "Anytime/Always".
Following my hand held experiments I tested both CSC response settings, in free flight, with a Mavic Mini in Cine flight mode.
With the response set to "emergency only" the Mavic Mini descended,in perfect control, in a helix, several complete revolutions as I remember, and hovered once I let go of the sticks. For the "Anytime" test I started around head height over longish grass and the motors stopped after the position had been held for less than 2 seconds, the drone fell about 18".
I semi accidentally tested Anytime with a Mini 2, I had forgotten to switch to Cine flight mode and the drone accelerated to quite a speed before dropping, again the delay was quite short.

DAFlys, to what angle did you flip the drone? 90deg seems the most reliable, I have seen inversion, 180ish deg, fail to stop the motors.
If the CSC response is set to "emergency only" and your hand was not still then the CSC will not stop the motors.

DAFlys Posted at 8-20 01:22
I did a hand catch this morning and flip and the props didnt turn off,.  so I did the CSC and they still didnt turn off,   I wonder if there is a new bug in this firmware.

If that happens again, flip the drone upside down and it should turn off.

CloudVisual Posted at 8-20 02:44
If that happens again, flip the drone upside down and it should turn off.

That's exactly what I did,  I usually hand catch and flip,   today was the first time since the firmware update and the flip didnt kill the props,  nor did the CSC.

Sean-bumble-bee Posted at 8-20 01:51
DAFlys, to what angle did you flip the drone? 90deg seems the most reliable, I have seen inversion, 180ish deg, fail to stop the motors.
If the CSC response is set to "emergency only" and your hand was not still then the CSC will not stop the motors.

It was completely upside down,  same as I always do it.     Also it was still when I tried the CSC.   

Dirty Bird Posted at 8-20 03:07
If you have it set to Emergency CSC is only going to work if the drone senses it's in an unusual situation.   This to prevent an accidental CSC, not that I can understand why a pilot would have the sticks in either CSC position during normal flight?  The other setting let's it engage any time the CSC positions are reached.

Yep, thats what i was testing, but each time i tried, it moved off the target area, it looks like it follows the stick movements for a few seconds then it probably shuts off the motors, from what i know, it doesn't have to sense a bad situation, you should be able to shut it down when ever you want to, i expected it to be an instant thing, but evidently its not that instant

Sean-bumble-bee Posted at 8-20 01:46
Suren, I think the 'tests ', for "emergency only"  amount to
1) whether the drone thinks it has encountered an emergency (however that may be defined), if it does think it has encountered any emergency then it will stop the motors........but I think there is a fair chance it would already be falling at that point.
2) whether or not the drone thinks it is in flight, which may be defined as its accelerometers, or whatever, detecting movement. If the 'sensors' detect sufficient movement then the drone WILL NOT stop its motors

AH, i think mines set to emergency only, i get it now, that's why it didn't do it instantly then. *face palm*

Bashy Posted at 8-20 06:56
AH, i think mines set to emergency only, i get it now, that's why it didn't do it instantly then. *face palm*

Ok, though.......it's not a setting where "I think" is a safe condition to be in, you should "know".  Mistaken "I think"s were probably the reason for the downings mentioned earlier.

I have changed mine at times and it is surprising, if one has a routine at the end of a flight, how many times one forgets to switch it 'back' to the 'safe' default setting at the end of the flight. I once caught myself flying the M2P with the setting set to "Anytime", that was a chilling moment.

These are two YT's I like in connection with this subject, from memory I got the tether idea from one of their discussions.

DAFlys Posted at 8-20 01:22
I did a hand catch this morning and flip and the props didnt turn off,.  so I did the CSC and they still didnt turn off,   I wonder if there is a new bug in this firmware.

Oh. I didn't want to hear that
I've just got into the habit of hand-catching the Mini3Pro.

The Combination Stick Command always sounds like the "Kami-kaze" setting, to me

Bleriot53, the normal method of stopping the motors in a hand catch is simply continuing to hold the throttle close.
I would suggest that the "twist " thing is probably not the best thing to do as a routine method of stopping the motors.
I have done it once, to 90deg, for a real flight with an M2P/Z and it worked.

Sean-bumble-bee Posted at 8-20 07:32
Ok, though.......it's not a setting where "I think" is a safe condition to be in, you should "know".  Mistaken "I think"s were probably the reason for the downings mentioned earlier.

I have changed mine at times and it is surprising, if one has a routine at the end of a flight, how many times one forgets to switch it 'back' to the 'safe' default setting at the end of the flight. I once caught myself flying the M2P with the setting set to "Anytime", that was a chilling moment.

I need to check what it is set at, it should be the one where it will instantly shut down, no x amount of time waiting, like i said earlier, if its an emergency, ya don't want to be waiting for it to shut down. I think i may have just gotten my wording mixed up, but i will check later...

Yeah, i always use the left stick down when hand catching and it shuts down after initiating landing.
Though some sneak up on it and pluck it from the air then flipping, is that right, DAFlys?
Ya wouldnt catch me doing it that way, i hate the strain it puts on the motors and or airframe, prob doesn't do any harm, just not for me

Ok, for clarity,
If you wish the CSC command to actually reliably stop the motors at your discretion, and solely your discretion, I believe you need to set the option to "Anytime" but there will  probably be a short minimum length of time for which the position must be held before the motors stop. There is, as far as I know, no instantanoeus motor stop with any DJI drone except perhaps the FPV.
With the M2P/Z and the Mini 1/2 the above 'delay' period is around 1.7 seconds from memory of what I have seen in the logs of my test 'flights' / fights.  
If you want to test this in a real flight, switch the flight mode to the drone's slowest but it may still reach a horizontal speed of 6m/s, and start the CSC with the drone at about head height/2m to limit the free fall height. I would have some concerns about possible damage if the drone does in fact reach a horizontal speed of 6m/s. My hand-held, semi vigorous wobbling of the drone, may be the safest option.

I would NOT RECOMMEND the use of the "Anytime" option, the delay period is too short IMO. I once caught myself doing this with a Phantom 3 but fortunately the delay period for the P3 is longer, 5sec? I think. From memory, the P3 has no options concerning the concerning the CSC response.
Between here and Mavic Pilots I have seen at least two "My drone fell from the sky" threads that turned out to be due to the option being set to "Anytime" and the CSC position being used.

It might be interesting to test what the CSC position is if the controller's stick mode is something other than the default but I will leave that to soemone else to mess with.

However, I believe the alternative option, "Emergency Only", means that if and when a CSC command is issued, it is ultimately the drone that decides whether or not to stop the motors, NOT THE PILOT.

I think neither option is ideal but there is nothing we can do about it, so I set "Emergency Only' as the "best of a bad lot" choice since it is, IMO, too easy to cause a crash with the response set to "Anytime".

And yes I have a "bug up my rear" about this, and have had so since I first read the manual of my first Mavic type drone, the Mavic Mini. Coming from th P3 I was horrified that it appeared we the pilots had had this setup thrust upon us.

Sean-bumble-bee Posted at 8-20 20:37
Ok, for clarity,
If you wish the CSC command to actually reliably stop the motors at your discretion, and solely your discretion, I believe you need to set the option to "Anytime" but there will  probably be a short minimum length of time for which the position must be held before the motors stop. There is, as far as I know, no instantanoeus motor stop with any DJI drone except perhaps the FPV.
With the M2P/Z and the Mini 1/2 the above 'delay' period is around 1.7 seconds from memory of what I have seen in the logs of my test 'flights' / fights.  

Thanks for the info, I will have to review my settings in case i have it wrongly set, i should read more lol.

It is "Anytime" that i thought i wanted to use as i want to be in control of that but after reading your reply, i am now doubting my reasoning. I cannot even convince myself that i have never accidentally put the sticks in the CSC position because i may have without realising it.

I now think about it, it should be a combination of CSC and a button to activate the motor shutdown command, perhaps used with the pause or the power button, after all, the latter requires a double press to turn off the remote so a single press like any normal power button would work. Granted, the thought process to work the sticks and a button may take a second longer but i cannot see a scenario where that 1 second would hurt.

I tried this test today and using emergency stop, I could not get the motors to stop while flying forward. It did something like a loop following the sticks commands but when I set it to anytime, as soon as the sticks were both pulled into the CSC position the drone dropped with motors dead.

Bashy Posted at 8-20 18:50
I need to check what it is set at, it should be the one where it will instantly shut down, no x amount of time waiting, like i said earlier, if its an emergency, ya don't want to be waiting for it to shut down. I think i may have just gotten my wording mixed up, but i will check later...

Yeah, i always use the left stick down when hand catching and it shuts down after initiating landing.

Yep done it hundred of times now with Mini2 and Mini3 and they are both going strong,   I dont always do it but on windy days or if Im flying somewhere that landing on the ground is not feasible like long grass, sand etc.    I often like to land on the smallest subject going like walls or posts especially if people are about as it looks cool.

DAFlys Posted at 8-20 23:42
Yep done it hundred of times now with Mini2 and Mini3 and they are both going strong,   I dont always do it but on windy days or if Im flying somewhere that landing on the ground is not feasible like long grass, sand etc.    I often like to land on the smallest subject going like walls or posts especially if people are about as it looks cool.

ha ha, i nearly tried to land on a field gate post, then quickly bottled it, the Mini 2 was quite unstable in the wind lol

Suren Posted at 8-20 23:03
I tried this test today and using emergency stop, I could not get the motors to stop while flying forward. It did something like a loop following the sticks commands but when I set it to anytime, as soon as the sticks were both pulled into the CSC position the drone dropped with motors dead.

Thank you for doing that, i must have it set to Emergency then thinking that that was the immediate stop. I will change it

DAFlys, are you saying you have actually stopped their motors hundreds of times whilst they are in the air and moving in the circular/helical flight path over grass and allowed them to FREE FALL on to grass? If so in what flight mode, S P/N C/T, did you have the drone when doing this? I can say that the Mavic Mini accelerates quite quickly when given full stick commands and bearing in mind you are commanding full reverse and full sideways, I would think the drone would be traveling at a fair speed if the drone was in either P/N or sports mode.
It seems, at the moment, I am mistaken and it was a Mavic Mini that I accidentally CSCed, not the Mini 2.  
In both the deliberate CSC and accidental CSC, the Mavic Mini was, from a hover, moving horizontally at around 1.8m/s  by the time the motors cut and the log stops, 1.7sec after CSC start. During the "emergency only" mode testing with the Mavic Mini, I tested the CSC whilst the drone was in sports mode as well as in cine mode, in sports mode the logs indicate the drone was, from a hover,  moving horizontally at around 3m/s at 1.7sec after CSC start, I'd guess a Mini 2 would be somewhat faster.

Sean-bumble-bee Posted at 8-20 07:32
Ok, though.......it's not a setting where "I think" is a safe condition to be in, you should "know".  Mistaken "I think"s were probably the reason for the downings mentioned earlier.

I have changed mine at times and it is surprising, if one has a routine at the end of a flight, how many times one forgets to switch it 'back' to the 'safe' default setting at the end of the flight. I once caught myself flying the M2P with the setting set to "Anytime", that was a chilling moment.

That is a fine looking fella in that second video there!  

Sean-bumble-bee Posted at 8-20 01:46
Suren, I think the 'tests ', for "emergency only"  amount to
1) whether the drone thinks it has encountered an emergency (however that may be defined), if it does think it has encountered any emergency then it will stop the motors........but I think there is a fair chance it would already be falling at that point.
2) whether or not the drone thinks it is in flight, which may be defined as its accelerometers, or whatever, detecting movement. If the 'sensors' detect sufficient movement then the drone WILL NOT stop its motors

Hi,

Interesting find... "n all the logs that I have looked at, where a CSC was responsible for a mid air motor stop, those logs showed that the CSC response option had been set to "Anytime/Always".

But where in the logs (csv?  dat? or...) did you found the Anytime/Always data ?

cheers
JJB

JJB, by deduction, the logs show the stick positions and the log-stops/motors-cut after the position was held for 1.7 seconds or thereabouts, the drone were Mavics. As far as I know the setting is not recorded in the txt flight log and I have not looked for it in the DATs

But OSD.isMotorUp switches from "True" to "False", I think it was sar104 over on MavicPilots that mentioned the latter in one of the threads. The switch happens when the motors stop so the line containing "False"  is normally/always the last line of the log.
However that, the switch of OSD.isMotorUp, did not happen with a P3 with which I DID DO a mid air motor stop and restart but the motors did not stop turning. Looking at the DAT, from the drone, the motors went from approximately 4000rpm to  -200 in the 30th of a second between the two consecutive lines in the DAT, around the 'motor switch off', the speeds accelerated to roughly -3000 rpm for the duration of the free fall. I don't have the csv's of the DAT's  from my Mavic Mini CSC's to hand to check if the motors showed negative speeds in their brief freefall and will have to switch computers to create them.

KlooGee Posted at 8-21 05:20
That is a fine looking fella in that second video there!

Aye, you must be proud of your sons, lol

Sean-bumble-bee Posted at 8-21 10:58
JJB, by deduction, the logs show the stick positions and the log-stops/motors-cut after the position was held for 1.7 seconds or thereabouts, the drone were Mavics. As far as I know the setting is not recorded in the txt flight log and I have not looked for it in the DATs

But OSD.isMotorUp switches from "True" to "False", I think it was sar104 over on MavicPilots that mentioned the latter in one of the threads. The switch happens when the motors stop so the line containing "False"  is normally/always the last line of the log.

Thanks, Field "OSD.isMotorUp" is actually in my CSV "OSD.isMotorON"

I understand your dedcution thinking, curious i was as your wrote that for sure the option in the App was set ot AnyTime/Always, but that for sure data item is not find in the logs.

I will check my large log database for CSC commands, and check the True/False values after x seconds.

If i remember correctly KG did some CSC tests....love to see those logs as well.

cheers
JJB

Just checked the DAT for my accidental CSC Mavic Mini crash and the motor speeds go from flight speed to 0, in consecutive lines. No negative  values shown. As yet I can not identify the deliberate "Anytime/Always" test.
In case you are thinking of asking, sorry, I don't post logs.

Sean-bumble-bee Posted at 8-21 10:59
Aye, you must be proud of your sons, lol

That video was recorded not too long after all the pandemic lockdowns started.  It was a fun little distraction for us all to do together at the time. Makes me smile looking back on it.

Bashy Posted at 8-21 04:06
ha ha, i nearly tried to land on a field gate post, then quickly bottled it, the Mini 2 was quite unstable in the wind lol

Yes I dont do it in the wind,   mostly in wind I only hand catch.,

I went out and tested flip and CSC yesterday and did two tests and both were fine so I think it might have just been a one off.

DAFlys Posted at 8-21 22:40
Yes I dont do it in the wind,   mostly in wind I only hand catch.,

I went out and tested flip and CSC yesterday and did two tests and both were fine so I think it might have just been a one off.

Thanks, thats good to know

Bashy Posted at 8-21 22:48
Thanks, thats good to know

I hope it doesn't make a habit of it for sure