hallmark007 Posted at 10-5 08:52
I don’t normally agree with this guy but he makes a Great case for this being pilot error and he does it comprehensively. I think this is mainly down to haters as is very apparent on you tube and bad pilots.

How is he making a great case for pilot error?

All through the video he's having issues while flying like at the 3:06 mark.

He even says there could have been a bad batch of gyro's and at one point he said if I was a little closer to the ground I would have crashed but at the end he says he hasn't seen any problems????

I can take any of my cinewhoops out and do the exact same yaw turn/spin and don't have to "save" them. I took my ProTek35 and self built Cinelog 25 out today just to test and had zero issues with either. Yeah they don't fly like a 5" but they don't try to fall out of the sky and need to be saved from a yaw spin. This is not normal behavior for a cinewhoop.  

bp328i Posted at 10-5 16:09
How is he making a great case for pilot error?

All through the video he's having issues while flying like at the 3:06 mark.

Yeah, just because they didn't experience the issue doesn't mean it doesn't exist. A lot of the reviewers are already stating that there is a really an issue on the manual mode. The reviewer below initially recommended the DJI AVATA but then he is now advising not to BUY YET the DJI AVATA until DJI addresses and fixed the issue.

bp328i Posted at 10-5 16:09
How is he making a great case for pilot error?

All through the video he's having issues while flying like at the 3:06 mark.

He mentioned about recovering “HIS” move not a fault in his craft showing that if he was to crash it would be pilot error. He didn’t say there “WAS” a bad batch, but his experience with other similar craft there were bad batches with them.
I think if there is a bad batch and it cannot be sorted with FW we will see a recall so lets wait and see.

Elendel Posted at 10-5 15:43
Apparently some reviewers are posting that DJI acknowledged the issue. I hope so, and they really need to address the issue especially that most are telling DJI that it is a desync on one of the motors that causes the issue.

Here is the video

If dji acknowledged the issue Im certain we would have heard directly from them. But if it is correct then its more likely this can be sorted with FW update.

hallmark007 Posted at 10-6 04:23
He mentioned about recovering “HIS” move not a fault in his craft showing that if he was to crash it would be pilot error. He didn’t say there “WAS” a bad batch, but his experience with other similar craft there were bad batches with them.
I think if there is a bad batch and it cannot be sorted with FW we will see a recall so lets wait and see.

That's my point, his move was a yaw turn, the same thing that has been show numerous times to cause the Avata to crash.

You shouldn't have to recover a yaw turn, they don't make most quads try to flip over.

bp328i Posted at 10-6 06:23
That's my point, his move was a yaw turn, the same thing that has been show numerous times to cause the Avata to crash.

You shouldn't have to recover a yaw turn, they don't make most quads try to flip over.

But it could also be said he was trying to make the same bad move others made, but was competent enough to recover the first bad move, it sounds like you’re saying that any move should be recovered by the drone itself. But surely that does not equate to full manual and this is where at least Im seeing that the crashing has an element of pilot error. Im not saying something would be better if some tweaking in FW was made. Its just not clear cut here and I also believe that many are available to jump on the recall its broken wagon. Time will tell but right now its not conclusive .

hallmark007 Posted at 10-6 06:32
But it could also be said he was trying to make the same bad move others made, but was competent enough to recover the first bad move, it sounds like you’re saying that any move should be recovered by the drone itself. But surely that does not equate to full manual and this is where at least Im seeing that the crashing has an element of pilot error. Im not saying something would be better if some tweaking in FW was made. Its just not clear cut here and I also believe that many are available to jump on the recall its broken wagon. Time will tell but right now its not conclusive .

Bad move???

Now a yaw turn is a bad move to make with a quad?

And I'm definitely not saying the quad should recover itself especially in manual mode.

I'm not sure where the disconnect is or why you think making a yaw turn is a bad move but a normal quad (cinewhoop or 5") does not try to flip upside down from making a turn using just yaw. That is not normal behavior.

Do you fly FPV in Acro mode?

Bob Brown Posted at 10-6 06:51
DJI AVATA Shocking Testing Results - NO PROP GUARDS

I saw this video as well, and that shows that the DJI AVATA has an issue due to the prop guards. It boils down to the under powered motors to compensate the weight of the prop guards when turning and that is not due to PILOT ERROR as others are claiming.

Bob Brown Posted at 10-6 06:51
DJI AVATA Shocking Testing Results - NO PROP GUARDS

The Avata will do everything in that video with the ducts on. He never does the left flat yaw spin which is were people are seeing the problem.

I've been following the many videos and post about suspected issues with the avata. Nothing has been confirmed by DJI. There are so called you tubers saying it has been confirmed. I suppose click bait kicks in at some point for views.

The avata manual is a good read, and whilst page 19 is not conclusive it does talk about flying the avata in manual mode may make it unstable in certain manoeuvres. With all DJI products they evolve by firmware updates over time. And weather this is a component level issue with certain avata's as a lot more have been sold then i have seen videos about.

I have had bad esc's from some of my build out of the box, or is it firmware issue or even pilot error that they are not able to recover from a tumble, or there is no chance no matter how skilled you are its not good to see.

Time will tell, until then we will just have to wait for the next update. If this is a product issue DJI should acknowledge it and make sure customers are looked after...

bp328i Posted at 10-6 06:55
Bad move???

Now a yaw turn is a bad move to make with a quad?

I fly FPV badly, but thats nothing to do with this, he was recreating what was causing everyone to crash, yet he didn’t crash, if the yaw movement doesn’t cause him to crash but is causing me to crash, I have no problems putting my hands up and putting it down to pilot error. Even with standard drones I still watch beginners making bad yaw movements so don’t be under any illusion that there are no new or bad pilots out there.
Crashing, bad FW, recalls and exotic clickbait titles are synonymous with all you tubers on new dji releases .
Still nothing from dji so we’ll just have to wait and see.

I think DJI should do a lot of thorough testing before putting an expensive and unreliable product on the market.

hallmark007 Posted at 10-6 08:27
I fly FPV badly, but thats nothing to do with this, he was recreating what was causing everyone to crash, yet he didn’t crash, if the yaw movement doesn’t cause him to crash but is causing me to crash, I have no problems putting my hands up and putting it down to pilot error. Even with standard drones I still watch beginners making bad yaw movements so don’t be under any illusion that there are no new or bad pilots out there.
Crashing, bad FW, recalls and exotic clickbait titles are synonymous with all you tubers on new dji releases .
Still nothing from dji so we’ll just have to wait and see.

Last thing I'm going to say about this. I've been flying full acro FPV for almost 4 years. I fly cinewhoops everyday.

He was looking for it and trying to reproduce it and as such expecting it. If a quad in manual/acro mode does something the sticks (you) don't tell it to do it's going to catch even the most experienced FPV pilot off guard.  

In manual/Acro mode the quad is only responding to your stick inputs. What the Avata is doing durning a yaw turn/spin is not normal behavior or from stick input, end of story. Cinewhoops don't try to flip from yawing.

If the quad does something the pilot doesn't tell it to do it's not user error whether or not you save the quad from crashing.

bp328i Posted at 10-6 09:40
Last thing I'm going to say about this. I've been flying full acro FPV for almost 4 years. I fly cinewhoops everyday.

He was looking for it and trying to reproduce it and as such expecting it. If a quad in manual/acro mode does something the sticks (you) don't tell it to do it's going to catch even the most experienced FPV pilot off guard.  

Well unless you are beside all the users how are you so sure they aren’t making mistakes. Either way whether he knew about the problem or not, one thing is perfectly clear he has had no problem with it. The fact you fly cine whoops everyday for 4 years makes no difference to this argument, not sure why you need to get that boast in. I take it you have flown the Avata so maybe post a video showing what you’re talking about.

Guys... Without going through the physics details or electrics details, making a bad move as bad pilot should not cut out all the commands you give to the drone. If you do a strong yaw on the left, the Avata at any time could cut you out from giving him commands for a while flipping side down on the ground in a very nervous way which is not normal. That's it.

hallmark007 Posted at 10-6 11:04
Well unless you are beside all the users how are you so sure they aren’t making mistakes. Either way whether he knew about the problem or not, one thing is perfectly clear he has had no problem with it. The fact you fly cine whoops everyday for 4 years makes no difference to this argument, not sure why you need to get that boast in. I take it you have flown the Avata so maybe post a video showing what you’re talking about.

Now you must be just trolling or honestly just don't understand how quads fly...

I don't have to be next to them, many people have replicated the issue by doing a left yaw turn. It's not a secret that's how to induce the issue. Have you not seen all the other videos of people doing yaw turns and the Avata flipping out? Let me guess they are all lying about what stick inputs there're doing. Everyone who had the problem had a secret meeting and agreed to say it's just from a left yaw.

If someone is able to save something the quad did that it shouldn't have and you can't, that doesn't make it user error. It just means that person is a better pilot than you, not user error.

Nothing I said was a boast. Me flying FPV and cinewhoops for 4 years means I know how a cinewhoop reacts when doing a yaw turn/spin. It's obvious you don't.

Go ahead and get your last words in. I'm done replying to nonsense.

Jaydem_ks Posted at 10-6 11:18
Guys... Without going through the physics details or electrics details, making a bad move as bad pilot should not cut out all the commands you give to the drone. If you do a strong yaw on the left, the Avata at any time could cut you out from giving him commands for a while flipping side down on the ground in a very nervous way which is not normal. That's it.

Thank you, exactly

bp328i Posted at 10-6 12:41
Now you must be just trolling or honestly just don't understand how quads fly...

I don't have to be next to them, many people have replicated the issue by doing a left yaw turn. It's not a secret that's how to induce the issue. Have you not seen all the other videos of people doing yaw turns and the Avata flipping out? Let me guess they are all lying about what stick inputs there're doing. Everyone who had the problem had a secret meeting and agreed to say it's just from a left yaw.

So you don’t own one, but you’re an expert from your armchair a ledge down in your own lunchtime and you wonder how these things gain speed

I was thinking about to try out my avata without the prop guards to understand if the issues comes out, but that guy tested it out already in the video posted above.
If that thing fix the problem, i'll design and print a different propguards, at least i could fly in the meanwhile dji makes a new solution to replace the actual propguards.

If you didn't experience the tumble on avata, you probably didn't push it enough to understand the issue.

Jaydem_ks Posted at 10-7 02:58
I was thinking about to try out my avata without the prop guards to understand if the issues comes out, but that guy tested it out already.
According to his information/video if you remove the propguards you are not getting any tumble yawing. If that thing fix the problem, i'll build and print a different propguards, at least i could fly in the meanwhile dji makes a new solution to replace the actual propguards.

If DJI can patch the underpowered motors via firmware update that would be great that is to compensate the weight of the prop guard when making a left turn. Tumble is only noticeable during the sharp left yaw turn.

So, I don't know if it is related and I'm a very new FPV pilot, so I'll say I don't know what I don't know.   I DO know that that drone should just  not accelerate sideways with no input from me.  You can see the videos in my post below that I was using the motion controller in normal mode coming down for a landing and all of a sudden the thing just takes off!  In the one video you can see it accelerate sideways.  I was using the motion controller, so there IS NO WAY to make the drone do that with this controller.   It was in ATTI mode as there was no GPS signal, but please correct me if I'm wrong, it still should NOT do this.  No signal is another issue IMHO this thing has.   I have used it in three different places on clear days and hardly get a signal.  I never had that issue with my Air V1 in the same locations.   Looking for input here if any of this is just something I don't understand.

Link to my detailed post

CG1558 Posted at 10-7 04:00
So, I don't know if it is related and I'm a very new FPV pilot, so I'll say I don't know what I don't know.   I DO know that that drone should just  not accelerate sideways with no input from me.  You can see the videos in my post below that I was using the motion controller in normal mode coming down for a landing and all of a sudden the thing just takes off!  In the one video you can see it accelerate sideways.  I was using the motion controller, so there IS NO WAY to make the drone do that with this controller.   It was in ATTI mode as there was no GPS signal, but please correct me if I'm wrong, it still should NOT do this.  No signal is another issue IMHO this thing has.   I have used it in three different places on clear days and hardly get a signal.  I never had that issue with my Air V1 in the same locations.   Looking for input here if any of this is just something I don't understand.

Link to my detailed post

You would need to see flight log. To me this looks like a compass error IE yaw error caused by compass causing the drone to shoot to one side, this would also account for the one being in ATTI MODE, if there is a compass problem your drone will drop GPS mode in favour of ATTI .

Where did you take off from this can cause problems if drone compass gets magnetic interference.

hallmark007 Posted at 10-7 12:21
You would need to see flight log. To me this looks like a compass error IE yaw error caused by compass causing the drone to shoot to one side, this would also account for the one being in ATTI MODE, if there is a compass problem your drone will drop GPS mode in favour of ATTI .

Where did you take off from this can cause problems if drone compass gets magnetic interference.

I took off in my driveway exactly where I was trying to land.   So, let's say there is something wrong with the compas.  How do I fix / calibrate that?

CG1558 Posted at 10-7 19:25
I took off in my driveway exactly where I was trying to land.   So, let's say there is something wrong with the compas.  How do I fix / calibrate that?

There is nothing wrong with your compass, if you were close to magnetic interference at take off this can affect your compass, IE Rebar in concrete or close to any metal, your compass will reset so you just need to be careful were you take off from you don’t need to calibrate anything.

Below is for “ normal” drone but principle is the same.

Tip To Help Avoid compass interference and crash.


1/ Never calibrate Compass unless prompted to. Your compass will always prompt to calibrate if it needs it .

2/ start AC leave until you receive enough gps lock ,

3/ if you get Compass interference turn off AC and move to another location,
without interference.

4/ In bottom left hand corner on your map you will see small red/blue triangle, check to make sure that this triangle is pointing in the same direction (heading) as your AC, this will show good compass on the ground.

Raise AC to height of 8ft
Hover for 20 seconds
Fly forward 2ft
Backward 2ft
Left 2ft
Right 2ft
Up 2ft
Down 2ft
Yaw left
Yaw right
Each time returning to hover position
If you have a good horizontal each time, you will then know you have good GPS good IMU and good Compass, and your ready to fly.

This exercise takes less than 1 minute and is worthwhile doing before every flight,

Elendel Posted at 10-7 03:02
If DJI can patch the underpowered motors via firmware update that would be great that is to compensate the weight of the prop guard when making a left turn. Tumble is only noticeable during the sharp left yaw turn.

Yep, that would be great also, it will avoid to make us buy another frame.

I still don't understand why dji still didn't fix this, some dji dealers in my country just told me that they already knew that issue.

That's why they made a lot of marketing around the motion controller, so that the majority of the customer would have not notice that issue.

RGMGFitness Posted at 10-3 07:47
Well...technically you can fly over people.  The Amended rule went into effect April 21, 2021 and requires a Part 107 license (just to clarify).  If you’re flying "recreationally", you still can NOT fly over people and vehicles.

I agree with you.

Someone did an upgrade on the DJI AVATA motors using axisflying C157 3650kv and the tumble issue is gone. So what conclusion can we have here? An underpowered stock motor used by DJI in this DJI AVATA they did not consider the extra weight of the prop guard.

I've come to the conclusion that it's not pilot error but rather pilot inexperience. Hear me out here... The drone does drop and wobble when you make hard yaw + roll turns in manual mode, however, it's completely recoverable to someone that is more experienced at flying in acro freestyle manual mode. Also, the Avata is not built to do those types of freestyle moves.

My son and I tested both Sport mode and Manual mode to see if it was "dropping out of the sky" like so many others are saying. See the results for yourself and come to your own conclusions.

FPVTrendz Posted at 10-9 12:30
I've come to the conclusion that it's not pilot error but rather pilot inexperience. Hear me out here... The drone does drop and wobble when you make hard yaw + roll turns in manual mode, however, it's completely recoverable to someone that is more experienced at flying in acro freestyle manual mode. Also, the Avata is not built to do those types of freestyle moves.

My son and I tested both Sport mode and Manual mode to see if it was "dropping out of the sky" like so many others are saying. See the results for yourself and come to your own conclusions.

Sorry bro, but you are wrong.

Dji admitted that manual mode as issues, the drone should never flip down as it happens.

They will release a firmware update to optimize it but they already told us that they can't totally fix the problem because is a propguards problem.

In any case I did see your video, and you always make short turns even if they are fast, this is not enough to generate the issue.

Jaydem_ks Posted at 10-10 04:51
Sorry bro, but you are wrong.

Dji admitted that manual mode as issues, the drone should never flip down as it happens.

Where did they say this?

Jaydem_ks Posted at 10-10 04:51
Sorry bro, but you are wrong.

Dji admitted that manual mode as issues, the drone should never flip down as it happens.

Where did they admit that it has issues? I'd like to read that.

FPVTrendz Posted at 10-10 17:59
Where did they admit that it has issues? I'd like to read that.

It's on reddit.

So DJI when would you release the new firmware?
And what do you mean by "unable to completely avoid"?
Do you mean unable to avoid the sudden abnormal flipping issue, or just unable to avoid prop washout only?
Coz if you mean the flipping issue is still gonna happen even firmware is upgraded, I think it is a permanent flaw that can cause potential hazard due to the uncontrollable behaviour
If only the prop washout is remaining after the firmware fix, i will still keep this drone.
Otherwise, i think it is not a safe drone to fly anymore and i think i might give up on this drone due to safety reason...

Elendel Posted at 10-10 20:57
It's on reddit.

[view_image][view_image]

They haven’t admitted they have an issue. They basically said this is a limitation of Avata and the need to use Propellor guard means not everything will be possible and Avata is limited in some ways but much safer in others. So maybe optimisations will improve the dynamics of the Avata but there is nothing wrong with it, “its just limited”

Looks like a motor upgrade helps with the issues, but this is not something I should have to pay for myself. If DJI advertising a great beginner drone then nooo because new pilot's are going to make not the best maneuvers. So in my opinion they should reevaluate the marketing,which they won't, or they should fix the issue,which they probably won't. Which sucks. They were so close. Please fix this issue

hallmark007 Posted at 10-11 07:02
They haven’t admitted they have an issue. They basically said this is a limitation of Avata and the need to use Propellor guard means not everything will be possible and Avata is limited in some ways but much safer in others. So maybe optimisations will improve the dynamics of the Avata but there is nothing wrong with it, “its just limited”

they have admitted, check out robhk latest vid (6:35) :

if you still think they havent admitted it, nothing can, not gonna argue with you.
end of topic.

arkchan Posted at 10-11 10:17
they have admitted, check out robhk latest vid (6:35) :

if you still think they havent admitted it, nothing can, not gonna argue with you.

You obviously haven’t watched this yourself. The admission was about his drone not about all drones or even a batch of drones . My advice watch again and listen to what is being said. The guy is advising to update FW yet many have and still complain of a problem.

Elendel Posted at 10-10 20:57
It's on reddit.

[view_image][view_image]

I don't see an admission there, all I see is them saying what the limitations of the drone are thus really confirming what I said which is pilot inexperience because an experienced pilot would not fly a ciniwhoop like this without already knowing the limitations and being confident that they can counter any actions the avata makes to be able to keep it from hitting the ground.

FPVTrendz Posted at 10-11 11:28
I don't see an admission there, all I see is them saying what the limitations of the drone are thus really confirming what I said which is pilot inexperience because an experienced pilot would not fly a ciniwhoop like this without already knowing the limitations and being confident that they can counter any actions the avata makes to be able to keep it from hitting the ground.

Except an experienced FPV pilot knows this is not normal behavior from a cinewhoop, why would they expect the Avata to be any different?

Videos of people skateboarding, BMX, dirt bikes, down hill mountain biking all have been filmed with cinewhoops and some require fast yaw spins to keep up.