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Stop testing Action 3 focus problems with stills
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David_Harry
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Stop testing for out of focus lens problems and minimum distance focus problems on the Action 3 using stills.

Using stills for testing such problems is very problematic, either as a camera still or a screen grab. Serioulsy, there's a load of problems doing it with the various ways of producing stills, that the results can end up being meaningless.

All testing should be done in video form under proper filming conditions and presented as video. Uploading your Action 3's video files to YouTube and then embedding the YouTube clips into a forum post is really easy. Or you can upload your clips to a free cloud sharing service so that users and DJI can download them and look at them properly.

I totally understand that there are some Action 3s out there that definitely have focus issues and not only do these need replacing (not fixing but replacing). But DJI also need to be held accountable for making such a massive screw up of what is probably the most fundamental function of any camera, its focus. Serioulsy, the way DJI have gone about releasing this camera, you'd be forgiven for thinking that DJI were new to cameras and this was there first effort.

There's also the issue that there are many more Action 3s in stock around the world that have this potential issue. The cynical among us may even think that this is a ploy by DJI to see if they can get rid of defective stock to less discerning users who may not notice the issue, as opposed to doing a recall. Or maybe, this is just a genuine massive screw up on DJI's part and the issue may not be as seemingly as wide spread as this forum is making out.

In any event. If people are trying to prove a point about their Action 3 being faulty, then do your tests properly and show them properly. Until the evidence of this potential manufacturing issue is galvanised and presented properly by the end users. You will only be giving DJI the grey area and latitude they need to avoid a full and proper response, if this is indeed a wide spread manufacturing problem. And if it can be proven to be a wide spread manufacturing problem, then there may be grounds for a full product recall.

Moaning about it on this forum isn't going to do you much good either, your voice here is only small. DJI will take more notice if these problems are being publicised elsewhere on the internet. YouTube is a good start. Maybe use some common video title on YouTube for your complaints and examples, the more videos showing the problem with a similar "call to action" title, the more effective your pressure and efforts will be.

Using a title such as "Don't Buy The DJI Action 3 It's Focus And Lens Are Broke Here's My Example", is probably a good start. And don't worry about using hyperbole and clickbait, Google and YouTube definitely favour such titles becuase, unfortunately, your average viewers gravitate to negative titles. There's also Social Media but I don't have much experience of that, so can't give any advice.

Anyway. I sincerely hope those of you out there who do have a genuine lens manufacturing problem with your DJI Osmo Action 3, get it sorted by way of replacement or refund from DJI.

UPDATE:

Thanks to EpicTree for these examples. This is exactly what people need to be doing to prove if they have, or don’t have, problems with minimum focus distance and overall wide lens focus issues with video.









2022-10-21
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Hi David_Harry,
No need to worry about DJI support handle the "grey area" and the bargin about the focus issue unit.
1.contact DJI support (since u post the thread, support colleague will contact you )
2.raise up the issue u meet about the product.
we will get it solved.

forum users are closest users of DJI. We record each thread and see whether the issue is solved.
2022-10-21
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BigTB
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Not sure if this is partly in response to my recent post where I show pictures taken at longer distance and diopters to show the difference in focus.  But I have a few thoughts either way.

The same "load of problems" that can make photo tests vary can affect video as well (exposure, camera movement, subject distance, lighting, etc.).  Also, photo mode is a feature of the camera, so why is it wrong to test focus in photo mode?  

I actually suspect that with video compression, the problem may be exacerbated in video because areas of fine detail that are softened by poor focus will get smeared away by compression.  For my outdoor testing I will be using video, but that's mostly because I want to see how much it affects the slightly lower 8-ish megapixels of 4K video vs. the 12 megapixel photos (not to mention having video compression thrown into the mix).  I'm not on here to "moan."  I'm testing to see if there's a focus issue with my camera and if the issue is bad enough to matter in my normal usage (I'm still undecided on that), and I'm sharing the results along the way.  That's all.  

And don't worry, I'll be making a Youtube video, lol.
2022-10-21
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BigTB Posted at 10-21 02:45
Not sure if this is partly in response to my recent post where I show pictures taken at longer distance and diopters to show the difference in focus.  But I have a few thoughts either way.

The same "load of problems" that can make photo tests vary can affect video as well (exposure, camera movement, subject distance, lighting, etc.).  Also, photo mode is a feature of the camera, so why is it wrong to test focus in photo mode?  

Seriously, you’re gonna argue the toss with a post that’s encouraging people to do the right thing to make a complaint about a problem. This is why any company that makes a defective product will carry on getting away with it. Because people like you would rather fragment the argument and make stupid points against what is essentially the same argument against a manufacturer, instead of concentrating the effort. Then again, this is a public forum……

As for what you’ve said.

No, this post wasn’t a response, partly or otherwise, to anything about what you’ve said, I don’t know what you’ve posted. However, I’ve just taken a quick look and in spite of what is known about the Action 3, you still ordered one anyway. Well, that speaks volumes. You made a couple of stills that copy a test that someone else has already done in video form. Again, that speaks volumes.

The many issues of taking stills from video and how they are done, has nothing to do with taking photos. Anyone with even the slightest of post experience will know this.

You say the Action 3 has a photo mode. I most certainly hope you didn’t buy an action cam to take photos. Although raising the point in the first place to justify a pointless exorcise and weak argument, again, speaks volumes.

You “suspect” that with video compression blah blah blah. Well, stop suspecting and start doing empirical analysis and understand the temporal difference not just between video recording and taking pictures but also the effects of temporal inter-frame redundancy with the video codec being used.

As for the rest of what you’ve said. I’m just as equally uninterested in that as well, seeing as there was absolutely no need what so ever for your response in the first place because all you’ve done is water down and distract from the point being made.

For anyone else who may read this post. Take it or leave it, either way it makes no difference to me as I don’t own an Action 3 and have no skin in this particular game.  All I’ve done here is to give people a couple of ideas on how to concentrate focus of a particular complaint about a particular problem, more effectively.

If others would rather spend their time urinating in the wind, then fair enough but the only outcome of that exorcise is that you’ll end up wreaking of urine and your complaint becomes more diminished.



2022-10-21
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BigTB
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I didn't buy an action camera specifically for the photo mode.  I will probably never take a photo with it in normal use.  But you made a blanket, unambiguous statement that using photos to test lens focus is somehow wrong.  My point was simply that the camera has a photo mode, so I don't know why it would be a bad way to see if the lens is in focus or not.  I don't see how I watered down or fragmented the problem.  Again, why is it so problematic to test the focus of a camera lens by taking photos?

You seem to feel strongly that people should be reporting the problem and giving evidence of the focus issue to DJI.  DJI specifically said they monitor every thread on this forum and work to fix every issue reported.  So why is reporting that my camera too seems to show a soft focus watering down or fragmenting the issue?  Why is taking photos to show the soft focus and the improvement with a diopter such a problematic way to do this?  I used a studio light, a tripod and manual exposure settings.  I think that's a pretty good way to show that it's not a bit-rate issue, lighting issue, noise reduction issue, stabilization issue, etc.  It's a lens issue and it's not only at really close distances.  That was another thing I saw a lot of people (and DJI) saying:  That it's only a close focus issue.  I showed that even at much longer distances than 30cm, the lens focus seems off.  Why are photos the wrong way to do that?

And yes, I knew of the potential problem and I still bought a camera.  I actually pre-ordered the camera because I really like the Action 1 and was excited that DJI had released a more direct successor, as compared to the Action 2.  I cancelled that order for a few reasons, including early reports of possible focus issues.  Why did I end up ordering it now?  Because DJI claims to be working on the problem and a number of people claim to be totally happy with the performance, so maybe it will be good for my uses.  I took a chance.  What volumes does that speak?

And yes, I only "suspect" that video compression will come into play.  It's just a discussion on a forum, so I shared my thoughts.  That's all.  As I said, I will be doing video test when I get time.  Hopefully this weekend.  
2022-10-21
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2022-10-21
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David_Harry
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BigTB Posted at 10-21 06:25
I didn't buy an action camera specifically for the photo mode.  I will probably never take a photo with it in normal use.  But you made a blanket, unambiguous statement that using photos to test lens focus is somehow wrong.  My point was simply that the camera has a photo mode, so I don't know why it would be a bad way to see if the lens is in focus or not.  I don't see how I watered down or fragmented the problem.  Again, why is it so problematic to test the focus of a camera lens by taking photos?

You seem to feel strongly that people should be reporting the problem and giving evidence of the focus issue to DJI.  DJI specifically said they monitor every thread on this forum and work to fix every issue reported.  So why is reporting that my camera too seems to show a soft focus watering down or fragmenting the issue?  Why is taking photos to show the soft focus and the improvement with a diopter such a problematic way to do this?  I used a studio light, a tripod and manual exposure settings.  I think that's a pretty good way to show that it's not a bit-rate issue, lighting issue, noise reduction issue, stabilization issue, etc.  It's a lens issue and it's not only at really close distances.  That was another thing I saw a lot of people (and DJI) saying:  That it's only a close focus issue.  I showed that even at much longer distances than 30cm, the lens focus seems off.  Why are photos the wrong way to do that?

You’re the one claiming there’s no difference between taking stills and videos to demonstrate a video problem, so why don’t you explain to everyone why that is the case.
2022-10-21
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Fishycomics
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Best of Luck D. Harry. if you   preferred not to see it then do not open it, the testing is already taken care of at DJI, people are just expressing their  camera, that they need to address to DJI as they do not, this is a Support page  not a discussion page or is it both.

2 points for me, 5-points for you, that said happy trails on the camera  support forum
2022-10-21
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David_Harry Posted at 10-21 06:54
You’re the one claiming there’s no difference between taking stills and videos to demonstrate a video problem, so why don’t you explain to everyone why that is the case.

I never said there is "no difference."  I specifically said I was still going to do video tests because I suspect there will be differences.  You specifically and emphatically said not to use photos to demonstrate a lens focus issue.  You specifically said it was problematic.  I asked why.  That's all.
Edit:  Also, I'm not trying to demonstrate a "video" problem, I'm trying to demonstrate a lens problem.  The lens on the camera.  The lens that is a fixed focus whether recording video or taking photos.
2022-10-21
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osmonauta Posted at 10-21 06:33
"I most certainly hope you didn’t buy an action cam to take photos."
Why not? Do people buy phones only for the purpose of taking photos and/or video? It is a phone that they added lens(es) to it. First, just one. But one wasn't enough. So now it's three. Then four. Then wide angle. Then zoom. Etc. Is a phone first and foremost a camera or a phone? Or both? What's more important when people buy a phone? The quality of the phone signal and how clear you can hear the other party or the quality of the photos/videos?

Yet another person who’s completely missed the point.

But hey, I suppose if we just ignore “ the underlying science and all that”, then everything is all justifiable and OK

As for bringing phones into the conversation and comparing apples to elephants. Let me just guide you back to that point of ignoring “ the underlying science and all that” especially the “and all that” bit
2022-10-21
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David_Harry
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Fishycomics Posted at 10-21 06:56
Best of Luck D. Harry. if you   preferred not to see it then do not open it, the testing is already taken care of at DJI, people are just expressing their  camera, that they need to address to DJI as they do not, this is a Support page  not a discussion page or is it both.

2 points for me, 5-points for you, that said happy trails on the camera  support forum

Now try that again in proper English.
2022-10-21
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David_Harry
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BigTB Posted at 10-21 07:02
I never said there is "no difference."  I specifically said I was still going to do video tests because I suspect there will be differences.  You specifically and emphatically said not to use photos to demonstrate a lens focus issue.  You specifically said it was problematic.  I asked why.  That's all.
Edit:  Also, I'm not trying to demonstrate a "video" problem, I'm trying to demonstrate a lens problem.  The lens on the camera.  The lens that is a fixed focus whether recording video or taking photos.

My post is clearly about not using the various ways that people are using stills to demonstrate a video issue on what is primarily a video camera. You’re the one mixing metaphors and getting all confused.
2022-10-21
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hallmark007
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I Think this post by epic 3 proves the point you’re making https://forum.dji.com/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=277149&pid=2882997. Even in some of the videos posted here it could be said there is a focus issue, but if watched in the highest resolution he posted on YT its clear he has no issues at all with focus. And I suspect many posting here are seeing similar. But posting photos here and trying to figure out is focus good or not, is a useless exercise, firstly you can only upload about 10% of the actual file size and even then the website here is pulling and dragging at the quality of them to render them useless. I cant tell you how many “Chart” photos I’ve seen posted here, many of them zoomed in jpegs 260% which show nothing only washed out photos not fit for anything.
Problem is many believe their units have a focus problem while they are perfectly ok.
2022-10-21
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hallmark007 Posted at 10-21 07:27
I Think this post by epic 3 proves the point you’re making https://forum.dji.com/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=277149&pid=2882997. Even in some of the videos posted here it could be said there is a focus issue, but if watched in the highest resolution he posted on YT its clear he has no issues at all with focus. And I suspect many posting here are seeing similar. But posting photos here and trying to figure out is focus good or not, is a useless exercise, firstly you can only upload about 10% of the actual file size and even then the website here is pulling and dragging at the quality of them to render them useless. I cant tell you how many “Chart” photos I’ve seen posted here, many of them zoomed in jpegs 260% which show nothing only washed out photos not fit for anything.
Problem is many believe their units have a focus problem while they are perfectly ok.

At last, someone who knows what they are talking about and understands the point of this post
2022-10-21
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David_Harry
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Thanks to hallmark007 for pointing out thiese excellent examples for testing minimum focus and wide lens focus by EpicTree.

This is exactly what people need to be doing to prove if they have, or don’t have, problems with minimum focus distance and overall wide lens focus issues with video.









2022-10-21
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Fishycomics
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David_Harry Posted at 10-21 07:09
Now try that again in proper English.

I say.  good luck on that. sweet, short, to the Point
2022-10-21
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I've used professional film and digital cameras for over 20 years, this is a hardware issue and there's no reason you cant use stills to test it.  Here are crops that clearly show what issues I saw.

2022-10-21
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djiuser_i82mY6tgH5DN Posted at 10-21 11:24
I've used professional film and digital cameras for over 20 years, this is a hardware issue and there's no reason you cant use stills to test it.  Here are crops that clearly show what issues I saw.

[view_image]

3 different cameras 3 different focal ranges 3 different zooms and 3 different crops. Nah professional my arse.
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djiuser_i82mY6tgH5DN Posted at 10-21 11:24
I've used professional film and digital cameras for over 20 years, this is a hardware issue and there's no reason you cant use stills to test it.  Here are crops that clearly show what issues I saw.

[view_image]

Why is it that it’s usually those on day release who start spouting professional something or another

You may have used professional cameras but that obviously doesn’t mean that you’re a professional, as your “so called” examples clearly show.

Seriously, three different cropped pictures from three different cameras   WTF is that supposed to prove, other than you clearly don’t know what you are doing.

And not one pro camera among them

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hallmark007 Posted at 10-21 11:39
3 different cameras 3 different focal ranges 3 different zooms and 3 different crops. Nah professional my arse.

2022-10-21
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Well I'd love to link you to my photographic work vs any "cat pics" you have to share, the point of using different cameras was to show how it compares to similar DJI products since I have yet to see a decently focused Action 3.  As far as the crop it was it easily illustrate that the differences in sharpness/contrast that I have observed.  This isn't just a slightly enlarged wider angle of view difference but an actually lens issue as illustrated many times by others.  If I used any words that were too large for you I can try dumbing them down or using emojis.  
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djiuser_i82mY6tgH5DN Posted at 10-21 13:19
Well I'd love to link you to my photographic work vs any "cat pics" you have to share, the point of using different cameras was to show how it compares to similar DJI products since I have yet to see a decently focused Action 3.  As far as the crop it was it easily illustrate that the differences in sharpness/contrast that I have observed.  This isn't just a slightly enlarged wider angle of view difference but an actually lens issue as illustrated many times by others.  If I used any words that were too large for you I can try dumbing them down or using emojis.

Cmon look at post 17, the focus is spot on in some of the most testing conditions. You passed by it twice to post on this thread.
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djiuser_i82mY6tgH5DN Posted at 10-21 13:19
Well I'd love to link you to my photographic work vs any "cat pics" you have to share, the point of using different cameras was to show how it compares to similar DJI products since I have yet to see a decently focused Action 3.  As far as the crop it was it easily illustrate that the differences in sharpness/contrast that I have observed.  This isn't just a slightly enlarged wider angle of view difference but an actually lens issue as illustrated many times by others.  If I used any words that were too large for you I can try dumbing them down or using emojis

2022-10-21
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djiuser_i82mY6tgH5DN Posted at 10-21 13:19
Well I'd love to link you to my photographic work vs any "cat pics" you have to share, the point of using different cameras was to show how it compares to similar DJI products since I have yet to see a decently focused Action 3.  As far as the crop it was it easily illustrate that the differences in sharpness/contrast that I have observed.  This isn't just a slightly enlarged wider angle of view difference but an actually lens issue as illustrated many times by others.  If I used any words that were too large for you I can try dumbing them down or using emojis.

I’d rather you shared some of your “cat pics” as I’m sure they’d complement your obvious abilities
2022-10-21
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@David_Harry

Are you kidding us? The vast amount of empty meaningless phrases in your posts, as if your only goal is to confuse people here and beat them to death with the text.

The Action 3 definitely has a problem with focus and you can see that both when you take photos with it but also videos. No one needs your life lessons to determine that.
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JustName Posted at 10-21 14:16
@David_Harry

Are you kidding us? The vast amount of empty meaningless phrases in your posts, as if your only goal is to confuse people here and beat them to death with the text.

Did you even look at post 17….
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JustName Posted at 10-21 14:16
@David_Harry

Are you kidding us? The vast amount of empty meaningless phrases in your posts, as if your only goal is to confuse people here and beat them to death with the text.

And yet another person who’s completely missed the point. You’d think that I was saying that there’s nothing wrong with the camera by all the ignorant responses, including yours. Seriously, talk about completely missing the point and showing your ignorance.

BTW, when you say “ The vast amount of empty meaningless phrases in your posts, as if your only goal is to confuse people here and beat them to death with the text.” That’s the type of thing that ignorant people say when they are clearly out of their depth, don’t understand what’s being said, and are just getting frustrated because they are feeling intimidated by someone who obviously knows what’s they’re talking about.

Also. Why are all you ignorant people ignoring the examples in post 17? Oh, wait a minute, I just answered my own question



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hallmark007 Posted at 10-21 14:24
Did you even look at post 17….

Isn’t it weird how they all seem to ignore that one……

What’s really sad is that someone takes the time to do proper video tests of a video camera, which takes a lot more time and effort compared to taking pointless stills, and they get absolutely no thanks or appreciation for it.

It’s indicative of the pointlessness and futility being shown in many of the comments made here by people who clearly don’t know how to prove a point. But hey, this is a forum and the internet, both places where people don’t have to make any effort at all or prove anything with any proper evidence.
2022-10-21
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2022-10-21
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Do you mean its not it’s?

Anyway to judge focus calibration, a still image is great. You rule out softness due to motion blur and video compression.

You can clearly see if a building 20 meters away is in focus or not.
The action 3 has a larger sensor, so close focus can not be that close, unless DJI opted for a smaller aperture lens.

Minimal focus distance can be corrected with a screw on close up filter lens, but out of focus infinity can not be fixed without dismantling the camera and recalibrating tne distance between the lens and focal plane.
2022-10-21
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osmonauta Posted at 10-21 16:45
I have a feeling David_Harry and hallmark007 is the same individual with different usernames. They both seem to ridicule everyone, apparently none of them read the forum rules, especially this one:

Looks like I’m busted and all that swapping between DNS servers didn’t work to mask my IP address
Although, the paranoid conspiracy wasn't even the best bit.

Quoting the forum rules about being rude, or whatever it was you were trying to point out, and then to finish off with "I think instead of buying drones and cameras, you two (...or one...) should've saved all that money and spend it on therapy.". Is that irony or stupidity?

Serioulsy, though. For those of us who've been around long enough to have started off on dial up bulletin boards, we've seen it all. It's alsways the same responses on forums when ignorant people have been proven wrong. Accuse two people of being the same one person, persumably because they agree on similar things, in these instances the right things. Then quote forum rules about conduct and immediately, in the same post, do the exact same thing they are trying to use the forum rules to complain about.
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fans5dafffce Posted at 10-21 17:17
Do you mean its not it’s?

Anyway to judge focus calibration, a still image is great. You rule out softness due to motion blur and video compression.

Maybe you should learn the fundamentals of videography and photography before you try critiquing someone’s use of an apostrophe.

“a screw on close up filter lens” What’s one of those

“out of focus infinity” Wait a second, let me just repeat that one again, “out of focus infinity”

Once again, this is exactly what happens when you get a group of ignorant people constantly repeating and reinforcing their ignorance of anything remotely technical.

If I keep repeating the phrase “farther Christmas is real” will that make farther Christmas real? I really hope so because maybe he’ll bring me one of those “screw on close up filter lens” things for Christmas and maybe a camera that doesn’t suffer from “out of focus infinity”
2022-10-21
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David_Harry Posted at 10-21 21:16
Maybe you should learn the fundamentals of videography and photography before you try critiquing someone’s use of an apostrophe.

“a screw on close up filter lens” What’s one of those

If you actually want to know what fans5dafffce meant, search for "close-up lens". INON have some, for example.
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osmonauta Posted at 10-21 16:45
I have a feeling David_Harry and hallmark007 is the same individual with different usernames. They both seem to ridicule everyone, apparently none of them read the forum rules, especially this one:



Firstly you should go back and read the rules yourself. I’m certain you’re not allowed accuse people of something that is clearly not true. Has it got to a stage that people like you believe that if members here are not denigrating DJI products they should not be listened to or taken seriously. You really have some cheek particularly on an open forum.
2022-10-22
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