This is pure bullshit! Usually I'm the one here talking shit to people doing stupid shit, but this is just way fu$$ed up..  I don't think this guy did anything wrong!  The Statue of Liberty is the kind of thing we want to take pictures of with these drones!  This guy is being bullied just because they feel like it...   I would have done the same thing myself if I was in New York.  Times are changing and people have a different type of camera these days. And I think our copters should be considered a little more of a camera and less of a drone..  This is the biggest crap I've ever heard and I'm on Felix side with this one!..  Just tell me, which of you wouldn't wanna see Felix video? I know I sure would...   He wasn't out flying it around a federal building or police station.  He was trying to get some good aerial shots of something that would interest a p3 owner...  Keep us informed Felix and I hope you take these crap a$$ Tickets to court !  I would be so pissed off if I was Felix!

Mark97564 Posted at 2015-8-17 21:05
This is pure bullshit! Usually I'm the one here talking shit to people doing stupid shit, but this i ...

I am with Felix too but the problem is I know the area and they fudge things really badly and you never win in that situation and they will wipe the ground with your face if you don't know your legal right and have backup, so I fear for him getting the rap and being made as an example, we should stick by him as a union does because if we make him as sacrifice then our turn will come one day.

I don't want one day soon to be forced to sell my phantom just because the FAA Imposes a ban on us and makes it impossible to fly.

Let's all be responsible and educate kindly and support anyone in distress as I feel the crack down has begun and more of this confiscating theme is going to show up on the forums.

Ever since Sept 11th they have been very sensitive about security around national land marks .For obvious reasons i can see why they dont want UAS around the statue of liberty. New Jersey, & New York are always making stupid laws that make zero since but I'm wondering how they found  where you were? Did they wait for you fly back or find you when you were still flying?. I do see a registration and safety course in the near future if this keeps up . About the UK regulations  I'm surprised you don't have to get permission to breathe in the UK.   .

PLEASE don't just fly these UAS just anywhere.  Especially in populated areas without permission.

the time will come when it will be mandatory to have a license to operate... it is slowly happening in the UK through the CAA. I personally don't see a problem with this as it promotes safe and legal flight...

lb11778 Posted at 2015-8-17 21:48
Ever since Sept 11th they have been very sensitive about security around national land marks .For ob ...

HAHA, yes it may be strict in the UK, but it wont be long until the FAA follows suit and starts to impose these regulations on the US UAS pilots...

"The Statue of Liberty is the kind of thing we want to take pictures of with these drones!  This guy is being bullied just because they feel like it...   I would have done the same thing myself if I was in New York."

Oh FFS, seriously? What are we, 12 years old? ..."I'm gonna do something just because I want to do it, without regards to any potential consequences to me or to other people"?

I live smack dab in the middle of a huge metropolitan downtown area, and there are HUNDREDS of parks, places, events, and buildings I would love to photograph or video with my sUAV's, but I (and most other responsible photographers and videographers) have the common sense to realize that I shouldn't do so.
And why is this? There are risks and consequences to our actions.

Firstly there's the safety aspect - people and property are almost always below the potential flightpath, and what would happen should I have an equipment failure? While sophisticated, these things are still toys. They have not been scrutinized or tested to anywhere near the same level as standard aircraft. They can and do break and crash, even in the hands of the best and most experienced operators. While only a couple pounds, a Phantom 3 plummeting into a person from hundreds of feet up with rotors spinning might not end well for anyone.

Secondly, there is a tremendous amount of public scrutiny directed towards drones, and just the sight of one over public and national property is liable to make the news. Flying around locations like the Stature of Liberty (or any other National Park, crowded venues, etc.) and being sighted can only result in bad press for us all.

The only reasons to ignore these risks are:

• Ignorance of the consequences of your actions or of any rules that apply. It appears the OP recognizes this and has learned from the experience - good on you, but the consequences of his actions go far beyond getting a ticket, getting escorted off by LEA's, etc.. His actions reflect poorly on us all, and just the mere fact that he was taken into custody would have provided more fodder for press that is already hungry for any story on drones. The reality of today is, though, that anyone who has the money to buy a Phantom 3 (or any other of the competitors to the P3 series) can take to the skies over anyone, anyplace, at any time, but this is the Genie that is already out of the bottle. This is also the huge challenge to local, municipal, state and national regulators and flying organizations and manufacturers of drones all over the world: come up with ways of enacting regulations and rules that protect against people doing unwise things, without hamstringing safe and responsible operations, both recreational and commercial. Not an easy challenge to meet.
• Lack of care about the potential consequences, and this is even more troubling than number 1.  Essentially this means the operator just wants to do whatever he/she wants to do, and believes nobody can say otherwise. Good luck with this, mate.
  

Come on, folks, THINK about what you're doing before doing it. IDENTIFY what could happen if something went wrong during your flight, and if the risks are too high, don't fly! LEARN about the rules and follow them. DON'T do anything that places other people or property at risk - period, even when or if it might be within current rules. Clearly technology is advancing faster than regulators can craft new rules. Don't make their job easier by doing something stupid and forcing them to come down hard, with bans and heavy regulation fees.


I'm done, now. Officially off my soapbox.

dmwierz Posted at 2015-8-17 22:51
"The Statue of Liberty is the kind of thing we want to take pictures of with these drones!  This guy ...

well said, completely agree

dmwierz Posted at 2015-8-17 22:51
"The Statue of Liberty is the kind of thing we want to take pictures of with these drones!  This guy ...

It's a common sense law in the head that we should go by not getting hard headed and do what ever we want to, I too had the same idea as Felix did and the same take off location but I did not act on it as there is so many things that could go wrong that not only will affect me it will affect everyone that shares the same hobby as me, besides it has been over exposed too much and filmed way too many times, there is plenty of places and subjects that have never been exploited before, go hunt them down and film them, and I am sure plenty of them are legal and if in doubt get permission.

The pope is coming to Philadelphia soon so please NO ONE goes there with there phantoms please, unless you want to be the next victim.

If someone wanted to blow up the statue they wouldn't be right by it flying the bomb... Come on here. The issue is the government got way to much power in the last 50 yrs cuz we all pussed out just like now.. I'm not trying to sacrifice anyone and if I was in Felix position  I would be bitching up a storm..  Clearly we need to combine all of our little ama groups and stuff into 1 big ass group and start doing shit about our rights or you will end up being right! We won't be flying anything anymore!  And it will be because everyone lied down not cuz of the few dipshits that didn't have common since..  Shit happens and people are stupid and if that is all they got to ban a drone then cars should be banned too! Dumb ass people are killing thousands of people each year, with cars!  I can't think of 1 person that has died from a copter or anything rc.  

vu.q.le@outlook Posted at 2015-8-17 14:13
Seriously it's people like you that will screw it for all of us ...

You can make your point without the personal insults. I think your response is rude and uncalled for.

xxFeliXxx Posted at 2015-8-17 09:47
Yes they will give it back to me after checking the video. I got two tickets, one is $50, and the  ...

Can I ask where did you take off from?

Felix, just out of curiousity, What is your ethnic back ground? Black people are winning the battle against racism in the U.S. Cuz none of them are taking any bullshit and are willing to fight until they die for what they believe in.  Whites won't but will shove their beliefs down another races throats! Btw I'm white and when I hear about allot of this shit I wish I was green!  I'm guessing here but for them to take Felix copter from him as evidence was bullshit! No offense Felix but you gotta be a Indian or something for that to happen cuz I can't understand what kind of evidence they would need to investigate that copter for. Other than it being explosive, why wouldn't its memory card have been good enough? I don't think Felix is going to get his copter back functioning...  Cops take shit apart but they don't put it back together..  

Felix I think you gotta choice to make, you can lay down and take this up your rear or you can get pissed off and raise holy hell..  They should not have taken anything from you, at most it's memory card. I would be at that police station every day asking for my copter back. I would be calling them while I was there too. They can't make you leave a public place if your not causing disruption and you can't get into trouble by calling for your copter every 15 minutes..  You can be a pain in their ass too ya know.  And get app on your cell phone that records video and uploads it to a remote server someplace and record your interactions with them. If they try to take your phone at least the video of it will be someplace else they can't get too.    I do hope you keep us all posted on what happens with this.. A day by day play would be nice too if you decide to get active about this crap....

Mark97564 Posted at 2015-8-18 00:08
Felix, just out of curiousity, What is your ethnic back ground? Black people are winning the battle  ...

I knew someone will say it and I am as frustrated as you are mark, I am  Just torn apart and feel like that this hobby of ours is being viewed as something out of the normal and there is so many factors and so many outside forces inflicting damage on us which in my personal opinion making it not fun at all in every second I see my quad in the air I keep thinking what is next I am going to be accused of  or charged with involving the use of my quad and the enjoyment is gone, as you said YES WE NEED a resolution to this bull shit and the end of this fear of being judged and accused and tormented every time we fly, every agency is taking matters in there hands differently and no universal rules anywhere and the FAA is toying around with our minds because we let them, our voice needs to be heard.

More than a normal no fly zone it is consider one of the potential terrorist targets.  No smart, it would be like flying over the new world trade center.

Mark97564 Posted at 2015-8-18 00:08
Felix, just out of curiousity, What is your ethnic back ground? Black people are winning the battle  ...

It was his calm and most likely humbling demeanor that kept him from getting arrested in the first place.  Very smart move Felix.

Regarding afterwards, I agree with Mark97564 about now doing some follow-up with the police or whomever said they would return your Phantom.  But again, do it your way, not anyone else's way.  Your mature response got you out of trouble the first time.  Be yourself, and follow-up to see when your P3 will be returned.  If you didn't get arrested that day, then you won't get arrested following up - as long as you continue to act with emotional maturity.

Good luck, hope to hear a good ending to this story.

HunterBrooks Posted at 2015-8-18 01:31
It was his calm and most likely humbling demeanor that kept him from getting arrested in the first ...

common sense?

A must have before flying!  Don't be STUPID!

If i were a tourist from Napal or Tampa vistiting the statue and saw a drone take off and fly at it, I would be very concerned, perhaps afraid.  Everybody run!

Sure, it may be legal?, but considering reprecusions...  this guy should be tackeled and shackeled.

If you're trying to prove a point, this is not the way to do it.

great.day Posted at 2015-8-18 05:55
common sense?

A must have before flying!  Don't be STUPID!

Ha, I wasn't commenting on whether he was smart or not.  Just noting why he probably didn't get tackled right then, and the advice he was being given to run down to police headquarters right now and kick the door down demanding his P3 back.  Humble pie kept him outta jail, humble pie might get his P3 back.

I grew up in Jersey, and worked/played in NYC all the time.  The cops in that area can tell in about 8 seconds who's a friendly, and who's a hostile.     

So, they obviously figured out quickly that he was just "another nitwit with a new toy."  

HunterBrooks Posted at 2015-8-18 08:35
Ha, I wasn't commenting on whether he was smart or not.  Just noting why he probably didn't get ta ...

LOOOOOL "nitwit with a new toy"  and that is exactly what they saw in him, and thank god that was all it was at that point.

Hi everyone, thank you for all your advises and suggestions, I really appreciate it.

Good news is they called me this afternoon to go pick it up, and I just got my P3 back, functioning, and all recorded materials were still there As someone said, maybe it's my humble behavior that protected me from further horrible things. All those policemans are pretty nice to me.

Honestly,since this kind of "toy" could cause serious problems and the sky will become so noisy and overcrowded without any regulation, I do agree that it should be regulated in some way, but not just a simple prohibition of any UAV.

Btw, one policeman told me they've caught another guy before me did the same thing, and the outcome was the same.

xxFeliXxx Posted at 2015-8-18 10:02
Hi everyone, thank you for all your advises and suggestions, I really appreciate it.

Good news is  ...

Thank god you made it back, please share your experience with others to make them aware of the sensitivity of the situation around certain areas, don't let this stop you from flying, just fly smarter and don't get caught again.

Sorry but these people that won't fly because it may crash and hurt someone... Are you insane? You know how many helicopters and airplanes there are in the sky right now?
I guess the FAA needs to ground them all because they may one day crash and kill thousands!!!!

The DMV better park all vehicles too! Never know when one might crash and kill!

And with what people are posting about the UK... Where CAN you fly then? I have seen videos of the UK and it seems like 90% of the country is buildings up against buildings.
I would HOPE that the USA would be different and if the FAA tried to be like the UK, we Americans would rise up and demand our government give us back our freedoms. We were not sheep once, we can not be once again.

Don't know if you have this, but just in case. I also hope you get your drone back.

https://www.mapbox.com/drone/no-fly/

skymaker6 Posted at 2015-8-18 10:37
Don't know if you have this, but just in case. I also hope you get your drone back.

https://www.map ...

Flying upto the Statue of Liberty is perfectly legal provided you don't take off or land there. The NPS memorandum only covers take offs and landings.

If I were to pilot a boat up the river and fly around Liberty island I wouldn't be breaking any laws.

What got Felix in trouble with the police was a local ordnance for flying from the state park.

You know, I hesitate in even raising this, as I know many people feel it was foolish to fly around the Statue of Liberty...and truth is I agree with them.  However, as I and others have mentioned here, without further information...many people believe that flying over open water near the Statue of Liberty isn't on the face illegal.  Could you face additional scrutiny for unsafe flying or other regulations...perhaps.  It appears by your limited information you were cited for flying from a state park...which in New Jersey is against park rules, and a ticketable offense.

However, and here is the kicker....earlier you said you flew from the walkway.  To my understanding the Hudson River Walkway is NOT a state park...it just runs along it, in this case...in others, it runs along private property.  It is actually governed by something called the Public Trust Doctrine.  You can read all about this, and the weird conflagration of rules (and associated legal cases of improper closures in other places) associated with waterfront access in New Jersey here: http://www.state.nj.us/dep/cmp/access/public_access_handbook.pdf. My point isn't that you are in the clear...  However, I certainly would question in my own mind whether you were actually on State Park governed land (the Hudson River Walkway is generally not Governed by Stare Park rules).  The possibility that you were outside the park...and its rules is certainly worth exploring.  

Of course you are the only one that can decide if you wanna poke a bear.  I'd stand by my earlier comment to not clarify on a public forum what you did or did not do.  I just think that rules are rules...and we should follow them (no matter how hard they are to ascertain).  However, none of us should let another force a rule upon us by their own invention.  In this case, perhaps you did nothing more illegal then if you would've flown from public property across the street from a state park.  You mentioned you are a foreign study student.  Perhaps you can find a law advocate at your university to explore your options from an academic sense.  That is of course if you'd rather not pay the "ticket".

Just out of curiousity sense...I am interested who the issuing authority of your ticket was (it should say on it)...and if you were given a "confiscation" receipt who that authority was?

TAZ Posted at 2015-8-18 12:26
You know, I hesitate in even raising this, as I know many people feel it was foolish to fly around t ...

I would love to know also, and i will go there next weekend and see for myself the boundaries and ask the park rangers over there of what is what and i will have my phantom ready to take off and hover it if it is public property and will take a selfie and see who is going to touch my phantom when it lands.

xxFeliXxx Posted at 2015-8-18 10:02
Hi everyone, thank you for all your advises and suggestions, I really appreciate it.

Good news is  ...

Out of interests sake...what was the disposition of the ticket?  Did you have a fine?  Did they indicate a law that you violated for infraction?  Did they indicate you had any future consequences?

Willie Wonka Posted at 2015-8-18 12:33
I would love to know also, and i will go there next weekend and see for myself the boundaries and a ...

Lol.  Did you read my poke a bear comment?  

TAZ Posted at 2015-8-18 12:38
Lol.  Did you read my poke a bear comment?

Yeah but i am half asleep and mad at the same time as they put rules and then they bend them for there own sake and we suffer at the end weather its emotional or physical or both, can the kid play with his toy (including me) and they can go help out in newark or jersey city streets get the real bad guys ?!

Willie Wonka Posted at 2015-8-18 12:43
Yeah but i am half asleep and mad at the same time as they put rules and then they bend them for t ...

For sure I agree with the sentiment. The whole National Park rule (and State Parks decision to enact their own rules), I 100% support.  I'm a naturalist first, a photographer second, a drone enthusiast 3rd.  All of those can live together in my life...perhaps not all at the same time..and I'm OK with that.  I certainly don't want more regulations, but more accessible/reliable ones would be nice.

If one is to do their research ahead of time, learn they are in the clear in regards to using our drones....and then get confronted with a misinterpreting official, would be emmensly frustrating and disconcerting for me.  I'd still acquiesce...and object later....cause I've got my priorities in check...but for governing bodies, either make the rules or don't...But follow the rules you have.  It negatively influences the enjoyment and progression of the hobby when we have to fly in fear.

gregg1r Posted at 2015-8-18 11:29
Flying upto the Statue of Liberty is perfectly legal provided you don't take off or land there. Th ...

That is a very good point.. I have found that it is best to check before you fly.

TAZ Posted at 2015-8-18 12:56
For sure I agree with the sentiment. The whole National Park rule (and State Parks decision to ena ...

i would print a copy of the laws and have it with me in cases that the official is wrong and does not know fully the law code that you are supposedly breaking. i obviously would be very nice and polite because who knows what may happen to your P3 if the officer insists on taking your P3 in as evidence!!

Willie Wonka Posted at 2015-8-17 09:33
Hire a lawyer ASAP after the FBI call you within a couple of days and you will be interrogated.
The  ...

Yes, Better Call Saul mate. You do not want to end on Guantanamo.
In last month some guy was flying in CTR zone, at approach route near Chopin Airport and now he have a big troubles.

I didn't mean go into the police station acting a fool, I mean don't just lie down and get walked on..  Everyone with a brain knows if your a asshole your going to get crapped on, he'll I smile that way myself..  Be a dick to me and it's going to cost you 10 times more to get your furnace fixed.  It's good he was mature and respectful about it no doubt.  Don't take my ranting the wrong way.  You can be very nice and friendly and not take any shit.  It's people acting a fool that won't help anything. I'm not saying smack the cop or take the p3 and run here.  clearly Felix was lucky and was dealing with cops who didn't push their weight around and were real people.  But at the same time here we can't be afraid to fly! To film and take pictures of anything not private, meaning of someone's house or what they do in their back yard....  

With any luck we will end up getting the right people owning drones themselves and appreciating the hobby...  I mean faa employees which clearly they like planes and things that fly in order to get a job like that. Or some powerful lawmakers that want to protect the hobby themselves...

daviskw2004 Posted at 2015-8-17 09:34
There is a moratorium on flying drones over any Federal Property... I am assuming it is Federal Prop ...

SO does this include national forests, BLM land, Post offices, and social security buildings?

Spankybear Posted at 2015-8-19 02:42
SO does this include national forests, BLM land, Post offices, and social security buildings?

More specifically it isn't the "federal" property that is the issue, it's the lands governed by the National Park Service, specifically. It is lands administered by the National Park Service that need to 100% be avoided for takeoffs and landings..other federally administered property doesn't have the restrictions (BLM Lands and Parks, National Forests and National Recreation Areas--some governed by the NPS, others by USFS...so regulations may vary) also aren't similarly restricted.

For reference, one can use Wikipedia to determine parks administered by the NPS to the limits of its accuracy: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ ... ational_Park_System .  Local State and City park laws equally need to be explored as their regulations will vary.

It can be ridiculously difficult to navigate the existing laws...but correct terminology helps if someone is doing their own research.

Isn't it typically a bad idea to fly near large metal objects?  Kind of curious how the drone was performing...  

You'd think there would be some leniency around public property.  I get that you are foreign however the same would have happened to a person who has had nearly half of their paycheck confiscated for taxes, and nearly another 5%-10% taken any time the spend it.  

Spankybear Posted at 2015-8-19 02:42
SO does this include national forests, BLM land, Post offices, and social security buildings?

The only property that the memorandum effects is land owner by the National Parks Service. This also includes waterways within the parks.

I can't believe that with all the federal regulations out there, that the government isn't required to issue a pdf version instead of plain text.

I would have linked to the pdf, but it ain't there. http://www.nps.gov/policy/PolMemos/PM_14-05.htm

Oh my lord, guys. If you really think that flying around a national monument with your drone is your right, then, please do us all a favour and sell your drone or like other moronic people do and fly near a power line or into Enrique Iglesias to bring your hobby to an end. There are aviation laws, just like there are road laws that you just have to follow and don't argue about. If there would be no aviation regulation, then every idiot could just buy a real Cessna and fly around as they please. I'm sorry, but a drone that can do 20-30 mph and can go up a 1000 ft or higher is no different.

This discussion is like "Why can't I drive on a road that is clearly marked as 'no trespassing'?" or "Why do I have stop at a red light?".

By doing this moronic stuff, you are actually doing everything you can to make the situation even worse for all the rest of us.

Seriously, guys, are you 12 years old or feel just too entitled or privileged to do whatever you want?