Hallmark007 Posted at 1-15 06:53
Sharpening is included in almost all editing programs because almost all editors use it and how much or how little is completely subjective. The first and most important job of an action camera is to cover the action the rest is down to the photographer how capable he and the camera is IMO.

I agree with this which is why I color grade/correct all my footage myself in post for my YouTube content. I personally don't like GoPro's "out of the box" colors and sharpening. It looks way too fake to my eyes.

Iancraig10 Posted at 1-15 06:55
That’s true. The in camera sharpening on the GoPro can be too ferocious. At least you can dial in low, medium and high. Actually, the Action footage that I first took got my attention onto focus and sharpness because it was the first thing I noticed. Then I realised that most people wouldn’t see it so much with a GoPro because they have it set at medium or high from the start. GP on low sharpness is probably roughly what the A3 gives.

Possibly, a sharpness adjustment might have avoided the problem so that those who want to edit the sharpness could stay with low and those that don’t could have used another setting.

What's the point of software sharpening, if in a scene where infinity can be seen much sharper than the foreground, my eyes roll over...

Iancraig10 Posted at 1-15 06:55
That’s true. The in camera sharpening on the GoPro can be too ferocious. At least you can dial in low, medium and high. Actually, the Action footage that I first took got my attention onto focus and sharpness because it was the first thing I noticed. Then I realised that most people wouldn’t see it so much with a GoPro because they have it set at medium or high from the start. GP on low sharpness is probably roughly what the A3 gives.

Possibly, a sharpness adjustment might have avoided the problem so that those who want to edit the sharpness could stay with low and those that don’t could have used another setting.

With my GP10 I always use Medium sharpening and when I check some of my footage it is not really that good. But it comes to good or bad light.

Andre is the one I always trust because do good test with all his cameras.

StevoB Posted at 1-15 07:01
What's the point of software sharpening, if in a scene where infinity can be seen much sharper than the foreground, my eyes roll over...

That’s exactly the problem I get with the A3. I could ‘crispen up’ the background but my face remains blurry, so it  can accentuate the poor close focus.

johansenfoto Posted at 1-15 07:05
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEiAWqX1sJQ
Andre is the one I always trust because do good test with all his cameras.

This video was shot before last FW that most have seen big improvements so not really relevant Just now.

johansenfoto Posted at 1-15 07:03
With my GP10 I always use Medium sharpening and when I check some of my footage it is not really that good. But it comes to good or bad light.

I use low and bring it up.

I think all Action cams aren’t great really in low light. One thing I do which is rarely mentioned in low light is to underexpose. Light meters try to bring the dark up to grey which shows all the noise.

Iancraig10 Posted at 1-15 07:08
That’s exactly yet he problem with A3. I could ‘crispen up’ the background but my face remains blurry, so it  can accentuate the poor close focus.

That's right, it will emphasize the softness of the foreground even more, especially if there is a contrasting background.

StevoB Posted at 1-15 07:15
That's right, it will emphasize the softness of the foreground even more, especially if there is a contrasting background.

That severely pointed it out to me at the start! I couldn't get my face in focus......

Looking at Worth it or Not, Andre does have a point ……. If SOME cameras were out of spec, then what would the firmware do to them? Make it worse?

This is the thing, are the cameras consistent so that the firmware works or is there in an inconsistency, in which case, the firmware won’t work for some?

Iancraig10 Posted at 1-15 07:19
That severely pointed it out to me at the start! I couldn't get my face in focus......

Looking at Worth it or Not, Andre does have a point ……. If SOME cameras were out of spec, then what would the firmware do to them? Make it worse?

The problem with sharpening in software (in camera or post) is that it can only do so much before it will look terrible.
And software sharpening is only there to fix hardware problem (lens softness). So if the hardware is good, there will be no need or not much need for added sharpening.

johansenfoto Posted at 1-15 07:28
The problem with sharpening in software (in camera or post) is that it can only do so much before it will look terrible.
And software sharpening is only there to fix hardware problem (lens softness). So if the hardware is good, there will be no need or not much need for added sharpening.

Exactly. It needs to be right in camera before processing. This is possibly the difficulty with the A3 ……..

Is it sharp but less digitally sharpened?
Is it NOT sharp and digitally sharpened to make it ‘appear’ better.

Both Andre and Allen have been in contact with me because they both instantly saw the lack of detail and sharpness.

I made that 10 bit video, just to see whether anyone could tell me whether my lens had been twisted or not. You were the only person who mentioned it to me. No one else knows.

Allen is still on the fence and Andre isn’t convinced both by what they’ve seen from me and others.

The other thing is what are people looking at to check? Andre clearly sees what I have done with my footage because he tells me when he sees it. He can definitely see what is going on with his monitor. Allen as well.

Where Allen showed his sharpening, that’s pretty typical of what I get. He got the statue up but the trees behind ……..

There’s that lack of detail, and that’s why I feel that the lens isn’t that good, which isn’t surprising given the A3 price I guess. Good ….. for the price!

Software sharpening is necessary, both in photos and in video. In photography, I used it mostly locally in LR to highlight selected details. Well, everything with a feeling so that it is no longer counterproductive. In video, there is a huge problem with every frame, no one will play, and only a few scene dynamics can be sharpened locally through some kind of fusion. This is all possible as long as the scene is in DOF and the subtle blur is on the lens side of its pixel sharpness limits. But if the shot is far outside the fixed DOF, then any sharpening, where the foreground and the background are prominent at the same time, is only harmful, and such photos always ended up in the trash for me, it cannot be saved, except perhaps with a composition with an indistinct background on something like a 155° FOV lens it's a problem, because it's almost a fish eye, and its deformed image has to be "improved" by dewarp software, which still takes little away points from the quality, because somewhere something has to be stretched, and somewhere else it has to stick. I know, I didn't say anything new, but maybe it will help someone (no, not that one) in compositions...Are we off topic again?

Iancraig10 Posted at 1-15 07:46
Exactly. It needs to be right in camera before processing. This is possibly the difficulty with the A3 ……..

Is it sharp but less digitally sharpened?

When I have checked some of my footage from my GP10, they are not sharp in distance so it is a comprimise with cameras if it should be good mid-range, close or distance.
I don't even know if my camera is good overall, have only done a quick test at home but use it as it should be good. And I think mine is good, but haven't seen in good light yet.

I am on the edge and made my mind up. and . sweet short to the point

StevoB Posted at 1-15 07:52
Are we off topic again?

Ooooh errr………

Well, the topic is ‘sharpness’, so I hope we’re being ‘good boys’.

It’s actually really nice to discuss video sharpness because I don’t know about you guys, but in post, I sometimes find it quite difficult to make a decision. Much like Allen in the video. I closely watch edges but change the zoom and everything changes!!

This forum is too touchy anyway!   ; )

You’ve got me thinking now, Johansenfoto……..

I’ll have to take a close look at the GoPro 11 footage. That may be why selfie shots look nicer.

Hallmark007 Posted at 1-15 07:13
This video was shot before last FW that most have seen big improvements so not really relevant Just now.

Since you are a "photographer" you should know that focus can only be fixed by adjusting the lens, guess that's why your pictures are not looking good afterall

johansenfoto Posted at 1-15 07:56
When I have checked some of my footage from my GP10, they are not sharp in distance so it is a comprimise with cameras if it should be good mid-range, close or distance.
I don't even know if my camera is good overall, have only done a quick test at home but use it as it should be good. And I think mine is good, but haven't seen in good light yet.

I wrote a long time ago that the OA3 is in infinitely sharper than the GP11. And vice versa in the foreground. They cannot be compared to each other, because the GP11 is made and the specification does not lie for a handheld action camera for selfies and vlogs, while the AO3 is an action and better camera than the GP11, but not for what the manufacturer's specification declares it to be, it is simply far......

Trouble was the A3 specs quoting a close focus distance. I wouldn’t have bothered if it hadn’t been for that figure! I felt that it was going to be an improvement on selfie type stuff over the Hero 11.

johansenfoto Posted at 1-15 08:09
Since you are a "photographer" you should know that focus can only be fixed by adjusting the lens, guess that's why your pictures are not looking good afterall

That must be it !!! focus can only be fixed by adjusting the Lens . On a camera with a fixed focus surely adjusting it will have the opposite effect as we have already seen. You seem content to insult others work at the drop of a hat without any proof or any real explanation, I find this continual insulting of others work without any real explanation a bit disgusting particularly on a forum where others come to learn or get help from others. But I suppose you are consistent in how you insult others without foundation.

I don’t perceive myself as a photographer and never claimed I was , I am an photography enthusiast and have shot industrial photography professionally but my profession is a goldsmith that’s it.

StevoB Posted at 1-15 08:12
I wrote a long time ago that the OA3 is in infinitely sharper than the GP11. And vice versa in the foreground. They cannot be compared to each other, because the GP11 is made and the specification does not lie for a handheld action camera for selfies and vlogs, while the AO3 is an action and better camera than the GP11, but not for what the manufacturer's specification declares it to be, it is simply far......

I think the reason OA3 can or is sharper is because it have wider FOV.
But all GoPro is not that good, if you want a good and sharp camera then Insta360 ONE RS 4K Boost is the best out there for even cheaper price than OA3. 1 inch version is even better but cost a bit more.

Iancraig10 Posted at 1-15 08:15
Trouble was the A3 specs quoting a close focus distance. I wouldn’t have bothered if it hadn’t been for that figure! I felt that it was going to be an improvement on selfie type stuff over the Hero 11.

It is probably impossible to produce such a system of lenses in such a small size that everyone would be satisfied. I'm fine with the GP11 DOF and the AO3 body, so I tweaked it as I argued endlessly with DJI about their product being out of spec....
PS: I personally know that I didn't damage the unit in any way, it's as good as new, just with the teeth from the tweezers When something goes wrong and DJI makes problems? It doesn't matter, I'll survive on GP11 and wait for OA4 and I'll also wait for your tests ;)

Hallmark007 Posted at 1-15 08:20
That must be it !!! focus can only be fixed by adjusting the Lens . On a camera with a fixed focus surely adjusting it will have the opposite effect as we have already seen. You seem content to insult others work at the drop of a hat without any proof or any real explanation, I find this continual insulting of others work without any real explanation a bit disgusting particularly on a forum where others come to learn or get help from others. But I suppose you are consistent in how you insult others without foundation.

I don’t perceive myself as a photographer and never claimed I was , I am an photography enthusiast and have shot industrial photography professionally but my profession is a goldsmith that’s it.

Nobody have seen opposite effect on adjusting lens, only making it better in focus.

My income from photography is more than enough for covering my gear.

This was interesting. He was a little bit clumsy with the tweak, but I can see a massive improvement on the iPad!

Iancraig10 Posted at 1-15 07:14
I use low and bring it up.

I think all Action cams aren’t great really in low light. One thing I do which is rarely mentioned in low light is to underexpose. Light meters try to bring the dark up to grey which shows all the noise.

Everyone tends to forget that these action cameras *need* decent lighting to achieve any sort of passable imaging.

actionxander Posted at 1-15 08:29
Everyone tends to forget that these action cameras *need* decent lighting to achieve any sort of passable imaging.

I guess they do, but there is ‘life’ as it happens. I went out with a Pocket 2 last week and we ended up indoors in a restaurant. Pocket 2 perfect …. Didn’t attract attention and then we took a nighttime walk down a pier and I could only use the Pocket because that’s all I took.

Sometimes, you want to use them for things they weren’t really designed for for other reasons than ‘just’ picture.
It's nice to know that they can be used at a pinch ....

Iancraig10 Posted at 1-15 08:29
This was interesting. He was a little bit clumsy with the tweak, but I can see a massive improvement on the iPad!

https://youtu.be/uN_6SIkRxCk

I'm always "terrified" watching theese videos, because it is so easy to f-up everything

Have seen his video before and he did a good job.

johansenfoto Posted at 1-15 08:25
Nobody have seen opposite effect on adjusting lens, only making it better in focus.

My income from photography is more than enough for covering my gear.

Once again this is not visible here by anyone who has moved their lens. In fact some completely refuse to post any results “Which is strange” others who have moved lens have shown that the camera has done nothing but shift out of focus to random spots around the frame and completely rendering the footage as random and useless.

I can afford my own equipment but I’m not sure what that means .

actionxander Posted at 1-15 08:29
Everyone tends to forget that these action cameras *need* decent lighting to achieve any sort of passable imaging.

That’s very true , but no matter what camera you use good light will increase the likelihood of a better quality image. It’s an action camera if it covers action well as you see in the video below then its done its job. If others can develop other uses for it through talent for filming or editing then it’s a bonus.


The footage was shot on action 3 but is a sponsored video. But it shows what’s possible. And yes what you said regarding light is clearly shown in this video.

Hallmark007 Posted at 1-15 08:36
Once again this is not visible here by anyone who has moved their lens. In fact some completely refuse to post any results “Which is strange” others who have moved lens have shown that the camera has done nothing but shift out of focus to random spots around the frame and completely rendering the footage as random and useless.

I can afford my own equipment but I’m not sure what that means .

The others are already satisfied, so they understandably have no reason to go to the forum and prove something to someone hardened. I'm probably the only one with a hacked lens who has the patience to watch and comment on your nonsense about firmware that you think will fix a hardware problem (which you never thought was a problem, then he was problem....) Then you wrote that I didn't do anything, that the firmware...

It’s plainly visible in that video!

  

All talk no action that is who I am:

1. no one will show the adjustment, this may be why



2. why adjust to a 30 cm when, the action is not there. what really  bothers is hte warpness , due to a trademark lens


Yeah the forum now has one issue talked again over and over.

StevoB Posted at 1-15 08:47
The others are already satisfied, so they understandably have no reason to go to the forum and prove something to someone hardened. I'm probably the only one with a hacked lens who has the patience to watch and comment on your nonsense about firmware that you think will fix a hardware problem (which you never thought was a problem, then he was problem....) Then you wrote that I didn't do anything, that the firmware...

Who are the others. Surely if they are telling others to do something then they ought to show the results. The fact is neither here or on you tube “NO ONE” has shown proof that this works and all I can see is it doesn’t.

But I have posted 6/7 videos on this forum today that clearly show that NOT VOIDING” your warranty and risking damaging your device will clearly show far better excellent results, this completely ignored by the same few who offer “NO PROOF” just completely made up rubbish . So where are the others? Or is this just more rubbish to justify making your device a whole lot worse because there is certainly no proof it made it perfect as you proclaimed.

Has this not improved the picture in your opinion?

Fishycomics Posted at 1-15 08:54
All talk no action that is who I am:

1. no one will show the adjustment, this may be why

I have posted many videos today clearly showing really good footage results in all modes of videoing. It’s not luck that these people can get really good results. It may be settings talent and editing skills but that’s life. This sham about hardware problem is just that a sham. If my A3 had a hardware problem and I knew that others could produce such nice work then I would simply exchange for one they had. It seems on this forum if you cannot produce good work it’s the fault of the camera, if you can produce good work , its as a result of having a good camera. Professionalism talent filming ability editing constant hard work are all ignored . It’s like when you show someone a really well taken quality photograph and the first thing they say to you is “you must have a great camera” and I can see this from those who complain the most here you never get to see any of there work , it makes me think what it is they complain about.

Would you like me to twist my lens, just ask but the problem is what are you going to see? Obstuction.

You’ve seen my video. Do you know whether the lens is turned or not?

Fishycomics Posted at 1-15 09:19
Would you like me to twist my lens, just ask but the problem is what are you going to see? Obstuction.

It really doesn’t matter whether anyone has twisted the lens or not. It’s their choice.

That’s exactly why I posted my video. Can anyone see any difference or is it the same as the original camera? My guess is that most can’t tell because no one noticed.

I can't see what the problem is with twisting the lens or not. We're all grown ups and don't need a lecture from someone to make our own choices. It's nothing to do with anyone else and no one is obliged to show what they're doing to anyone else. I've put out videos and no one can tell anything!

But this is a stupid never ending argument which is permeating so many threads now that it is becoming taboo for fear of causing yet more turmoil. No one is being forced to twist their lens for goodness sake!

All over 15 degrees.......

Fishycomics Posted at 1-15 09:19
Would you like me to twist my lens, just ask but the problem is what are you going to see? Obstuction.

That’s not true. The problem is advising others to twist their lens without any proof that it works except pie in the sky . If there is something to it then please by all means show it but from what I’ve seen much more improvements have come through firmware improvements which incidentally has been the case of every DJI camera including high end hassleblad as long as I have been using them.

It’s very strange that the same folk completely ignore any video posted that shows just how good A3 can actually be.

So no I wouldn’t advise you or anybody else to do anything that to date has not proved to improve anything is just as likely to make matters worse and into the bargain lose your warranty.

Grown ups don’t need to take their advice, or yours.

so I suppose when someone says “They wouldn’t advise” that would be ok LMAO