CloudVisual Posted at 1-17 04:03
Why on earth would I shoot in auto and then lock the exposure when manual mode does exactly that? Let me assure you that I am never going to film in auto because I want the frame rate locked so my exposure remains exactly the same throughout the shot I’m taking. I’m not fixing this issue by solving it with AEL - utterly amateur and not what’s happening here.

If people want to profess that “pros shoot in auto” they need to go talk to a real professional and learn a lesson about cinematography.

Hi there,

Very sorry to read that my suggestion has offended you.  It was not my intention.  Sorry about that.
However, I feel somewhat obligated to tell you that “frame rate” is not the same thing as shutter speed.  When using AutoExposure, your frame rate doesn’t change.  Again, sorry to have offended you with my suggestion.

DroneApe Posted at 1-19 12:33
Hi there,

Very sorry to read that my suggestion has offended you.  It was not my intention.  Sorry about that.

Mixups happen. I meant to write shutter speed, but thanks for picking me up on that. I was too busy hammering out a reply to the suggestion that AEL would be a fix for the issue to notice

CloudVisual Posted at 1-19 10:00
Update from DJI.

They have contacted me today after I submitted the video and SRT files and they have advised me to downgrade my firmware. They've also given me some credit on my account for the inconvenience, which was a very kind gesture.

Nobody was offering criticism, but you had no problem ridiculing any other suggestions. There mere fact that you rubbished anyone as an amateur or they haven’t a clue if the use some auto settings when videoing. Yet it’s most likely that if you were videoing you were using auto continuous focus as I’m certain 99% of users here use when videoing, a lot easier to use manual focusing when shooting stills . But you totally dismiss using any auto as amateurish which is rubbish. The fact you think once you set manual settings that exposure cannot change “its what you said” the fact you are using Manual settings will most likely mean that you will have to continuously change settings to maintain correct exposure if you are shooting out in the open , the least movement of your gimbal could easily change exposure it wont change your settings but can change the exposure. Let’s see what DJI come up with before rubbishing what others say .
I do find it strange that everyone says to shoot professionally you need to shoot full manual, but my guess is almost all of them use continuous auto focus, but hand held almost all videographers will use manual focus.

Hallmark007 Posted at 1-19 14:44
Nobody was offering criticism, but you had no problem ridiculing any other suggestions. There mere fact that you rubbished anyone as an amateur or they haven’t a clue if the use some auto settings when videoing. Yet it’s most likely that if you were videoing you were using auto continuous focus as I’m certain 99% of users here use when videoing, a lot easier to use manual focusing when shooting stills . But you totally dismiss using any auto as amateurish which is rubbish. The fact you think once you set manual settings that exposure cannot change “its what you said” the fact you are using Manual settings will most likely mean that you will have to continuously change settings to maintain correct exposure if you are shooting out in the open , the least movement of your gimbal could easily change exposure it wont change your settings but can change the exposure. Let’s see what DJI come up with before rubbishing what others say .
I do find it strange that everyone says to shoot professionally you need to shoot full manual, but my guess is almost all of them use continuous auto focus, but hand held almost all videographers will use manual focus.

You're really fixed on this auto/autofocus thing aren't you.

I shot an advert today for a globally recognised brand and did so entirely in manual focus, because I want to know that my focus isn't going to start hunting if it's unsure of the scene. Plenty of threads on here where people complain that their shots are ruined thanks to the autofocus trying to adjust mid-take. My shutter, aperture and WB were also all in manual, because I'd genuinely never get asked to work with that Director again if I suggested using auto settings.

I'm 1000% sure I shot it in manual focus today because my focus peaking markers were visible, which you can only see if you're in manual focus, I'm sure you knew that though.

"Let's see what DJI come up with before rubbishing what others say"
Erm, DJI replied to me. Looks like it's a firmware issue based on their findings. You just won't back down, even in the face of the manufacturer compensating me for the incovenience and advising a firmware rollback. If you're not willing to accept that, then you deserve to be ridiculed.

CloudVisual Posted at 1-19 15:05
You're really fixed on this auto/autofocus thing aren't you.

I shot an advert today for a globally recognised brand and did so entirely in manual focus, because I want to know that my focus isn't going to start hunting if it's unsure of the scene. Plenty of threads on here where people complain that their shots are ruined thanks to the autofocus trying to adjust mid-take. My shutter, aperture and WB were also all in manual, because I'd genuinely never get asked to work with that Director again if I suggested using auto settings.

Ok now you say DJI said it was a FW issue. That’s a lot clearer than your last post in which you said has been acknowledged by DJI as a potential bug. and so we should see an update and maybe others with the same issue.
Maybe you’ll explain how you continually manually focus while continuously trying to maintain your exposure . You spoke here a while ago about flying continuously and making sudden 360 turnabout, I would think for this kind of move your exposure and focus would completely change. I can and have seen this done manually but it’s almost impossible with one operator. In fact turning banking raising or lowering your craft will cause changes in focus and exposure how do you continuously find the time to potentially change aperture SS and focus and fly and watch what you film. I have been around drones a long time and I am aware how people use them .

Hallmark007 Posted at 1-19 16:11
Ok now you say DJI said it was a FW issue. That’s a lot clearer than your last post in which you said has been acknowledged by DJI as a potential bug.  and so we should see an update and maybe others with the same issue.
Maybe you’ll explain how you continually manually focus while continuously trying to maintain your exposure . You spoke here a while ago about flying continuously and making sudden 360 turnabout, I would think for this kind of move your exposure and focus would completely change. I can and have seen this done manually but it’s almost impossible with one operator. In fact turning banking raising or lowering your craft will cause changes in focus and exposure how do you continuously find the time to potentially change aperture SS and focus and fly and watch what you film. I have been around drones a long time and I am aware how people use them .

Clearly when you're doing your filming, you just hit record and fly around, looking up, down and around. In manual exposure that would be a nightmare situation and that's exactly why you don't see those shots in film/TV. You might notice that shots usually aren't very long and very very rarely go from extremely dark to light without some kind of cut between shots. (someone leaving a house and walking out the door will have a brief sun flare to hide the cut).

When we film, we shoot short clips of only 5-30 seconds in a scene where the light isn't going to change by much. If it is, then you've got to find a middle ground for both and use a good Codec like CineDNG or ProRes to give the dynamic range you need and recover the shadows or highlights in post production.

I don't have to continually manually focus. The focus on something like the Mavic is about 3m to infinity if the aperture is anything above f5.6. I'd have to get in ridiculously close to something before I'm worrying that the focus is lost.

So in short, with the Mavic 3 I don't have to continually change exposure, because I set that before we start filming to suit the scene I'm shooting. The focus is something that I barely have to touch because I'll let the jib deal with anything that's less than 3m.

If I'm filming on the Inspire 2 with a reasonably tight lens, the 1st AC will do the focus pulling. You're wrong in saying that it's a two person job, because it's actually three. You still need a cam op, 1st AC and drone op for that setup.

I think you need to go spend a day on set and see how things really happen - You'd learn a lot!

CloudVisual Posted at 1-19 16:28
Clearly when you're doing your filming, you just hit record and fly around, looking up, down and around. In manual exposure that would be a nightmare situation and that's exactly why you don't see those shots in film/TV. You might notice that shots usually aren't very long and very very rarely go from extremely dark to light without some kind of cut between shots. (someone leaving a house and walking out the door will have a brief sun flare to hide the cut).

When we film, we shoot short clips of only 5-30 seconds in a scene where the light isn't going to change by much. If it is, then you've got to find a middle ground for both and use a good Codec like CineDNG or ProRes to give the dynamic range you need and recover the shadows or highlights in post production.

The focus on a Mavic 3 is 1 metre to infinity and that’s auto fixed continuous . It’s not manual, there is manual focus which can be done on screen with a slider or tap to focus. I don’t think I’ve ever seen the camera hunting for focus, maybe if you get to close but I’ve not seen this. The focus to infinity is @ aperture f2.8 and while many say f5.6 is the aperture sweet spot,  there is still acceptable sharpness at f9.

Again my question was regarding as you yourself said flying completing a 360 and still managing to keep correct exposure,  you did say you completed this in one movement, my question how can you fly this manoeuvre and manage to change SS, Aperture etc and fly.

I’m well aware what it’s like on a film set I recently spent 3 weeks on location for the movie The banshees of Inisherin , and I’m well aware of scenes shot on drones the majority of them shot from straight lines of flying when filming. I’m also very aware of the job of editors and what they require . And I have assisted in twin operated flying though never 3 man operated.

CloudVisual Posted at 1-19 10:00
Update from DJI.

They have contacted me today after I submitted the video and SRT files and they have advised me to downgrade my firmware. They've also given me some credit on my account for the inconvenience, which was a very kind gesture.

I am glad to hear of their response!  I know a fraction about cameras as most of you, but I do know I have had to leave some footage on the cutting room floor because of this.  It nagged at me, but not enough to post.  Glad you took the initiative!

Hallmark007 Posted at 1-19 18:35
The focus on a Mavic 3 is 1 metre to infinity and that’s auto fixed continuous . It’s not manual, there is manual focus which can be done on screen with a slider or tap to focus. I don’t think I’ve ever seen the camera hunting for focus, maybe if you get to close but I’ve not seen this. The focus to infinity is @ aperture f2.8 and while many say f5.6 is the aperture sweet spot,  there is still acceptable sharpness at f9.

Again my question was regarding as you yourself said flying completing a 360 and still managing to keep correct exposure,  you did say you completed this in one movement, my question how can you fly this manoeuvre and manage to change SS, Aperture etc and fly.

Did you get to do drone videography for the film?  It is playing now, have not seen it, but when I get a day off this one is on my radar.  It has to be great to have both Colin Farrell and Brendan Gleeson working together again!  If anyone has not seen the other one they did together - it's great!  In Bruges I believe.  Loved that one!

Hallmark007 Posted at 1-19 18:35
The focus on a Mavic 3 is 1 metre to infinity and that’s auto fixed continuous . It’s not manual, there is manual focus which can be done on screen with a slider or tap to focus. I don’t think I’ve ever seen the camera hunting for focus, maybe if you get to close but I’ve not seen this. The focus to infinity is @ aperture f2.8 and while many say f5.6 is the aperture sweet spot,  there is still acceptable sharpness at f9.

Again my question was regarding as you yourself said flying completing a 360 and still managing to keep correct exposure,  you did say you completed this in one movement, my question how can you fly this manoeuvre and manage to change SS, Aperture etc and fly.

Auto fixed continuous? Do us all a favor and google what AFC really stands for. The result may also explain why it's often a better choice to either use manual focus or AFS (which sadly is not available on the Mavic 3).

And hats off to CloudVisual for taking the time and having the patience to lay out the facts.

Hallmark007 Posted at 1-19 18:35
The focus on a Mavic 3 is 1 metre to infinity and that’s auto fixed continuous . It’s not manual, there is manual focus which can be done on screen with a slider or tap to focus. I don’t think I’ve ever seen the camera hunting for focus, maybe if you get to close but I’ve not seen this. The focus to infinity is @ aperture f2.8 and while many say f5.6 is the aperture sweet spot,  there is still acceptable sharpness at f9.

Again my question was regarding as you yourself said flying completing a 360 and still managing to keep correct exposure,  you did say you completed this in one movement, my question how can you fly this manoeuvre and manage to change SS, Aperture etc and fly.

OK so let me explain that the camera's ability to focus is from 1m - Infinity. That's what it's capable of. The minimum focal distance and the maximum. However, if you focus to infinity and shoot at something above f5.6, everything from about 3M to infinity will be in focus with this M3 lens. If I want to shoot something closer, I'll need to adjust my focus, but as it's not something I usually film that close up, I don't have to. So therefore I do not need to change my focus whilst shooting, it's a manual fixed focus shot.

The Mavic 3 does not have AFC. I believe the last DJI drone to have it was the Phantom 4 Pro.

I have searched through the forums and I can neither find or recall me ever talking about filming a complete 360, please point me to my comment as you seem to remember it better than me. Anyway.. a 360 roating video isn't a normal shot for me to take because it's not cinematic and would take too long. Sure, I've done one in the past for a construction job, because the bar is low for what quality of footage they like. EVEN for that shot, I would fix the exposure and have the shot blow out when facing the sun, because believe it or not, when you look at the sun, it's really bright. So I'll just find a middle ground where 90% of that shot is slightly underexposed and then it'll not ruin the shot looking into the sun, which I can further correct in post by lifting the shadows and that'll not affect the 10% facing the sun.  

All I have to stress to you is that I NEVER change my exposure, aperture, ISO during the middle of a take. If I film and the shot becomes under/over exposed, it's cut, that's it, the shot is over. Make the necessary changes to film the next shot and carry on with the new exposure settings and hit record.

TonyPHX Posted at 1-19 19:07
Did you get to do drone videography for the film?  It is playing now, have not seen it, but when I get a day off this one is on my radar.  It has to be great to have both Colin Farrell and Brendan Gleeson working together again!  If anyone has not seen the other one they did together - it's great!  In Bruges I believe.  Loved that one!

In Bruges was a great movie one of my favourites. And Banshees is also excellent. There were 3 drone crews on location at achill Island an Inishmore Island (Aran Island) we flew quite a bit and produced much footage, but as is usual on these projects much of the footage is archived or used for PR and shorts. We managed to get in one scene and it was the closing scene of Inishmore Island. I flew a M 300 and camera pilot shot the scene. The experience was great and meeting Colin Farrell for a few pints on a couple of occasions was special such a great guy as well as a great Actor. 75% of the movie was shot just a few miles from where we come from.

The movie is great and so far has been really successful.

Hallmark007 Posted at 1-20 10:56
In Bruges was a great movie one of my favourites. And Banshees is also excellent. There were 3 drone crews on location at achill Island an Inishmore Island (Aran Island) we flew quite a bit and produced much footage, but as is usual on these projects much of the footage is archived or used for PR and shorts. We managed to get in one scene and it was the closing scene of Inishmore Island. I flew a M 300 and camera pilot shot the scene. The experience was great and meeting Colin Farrell for a few pints on a couple of occasions was special such a great guy as well as a great Actor. 75% of the movie was shot just a few miles from where we come from.

The movie is great and so far has been really successful.

Looking forward to seeing it!

For all interested, there is an interesting drone shot at the start of another movie, "The Menu" that I think will be of interest to those who shoot video professionally for movies and productions.  It is a push scene where the gimbal angle looks up from the water to the island (where the restaurant is at in the movie.)
What caught my eye though was how badly the horizon was off.  It was leaning like my M3 Cine did before I had it repaired by DJI.  

It has me wondering - did they do this intentionally or was it just a bad shot??  Yes, y'all probably have to see the movie to comment on it.

TonyPHX Posted at 1-20 19:57
Looking forward to seeing it!

For all interested, there is an interesting drone shot at the start of another movie, "The Menu" that I think will be of interest to those who shoot video professionally for movies and productions.  It is a push scene where the gimbal angle looks up from the water to the island (where the restaurant is at in the movie.)

Yeah, this scene puzzled me, too. Horizon was way off. I don't think it was intentional, what purpose would that have?

Then again, why did they not correct it in post?

Since I started editing my own videos I see so many things in professional productions that make me wonder if I'm trying to be way too perfect.

codex22 Posted at 1-21 16:48
Yeah, this scene puzzled me, too. Horizon was way off. I don't think it was intentional, what purpose would that have?

Then again, why did they not correct it in post?

@codex22 - I am so glad that somebody else noticed it too!  I think it was a mistake they made to not fix it!

TonyPHX Posted at 1-21 19:15
@codex22 - I am so glad that somebody else noticed it too!  I think it was a mistake they made to not fix it!

I sure would have fixed it. Horizon off is the one thing that always stands out the most.

Then again, among "regular" people (meaning not photographers or videographers) I haven't heard one person say "oh, did you see the slanted horizon?". We just have a more critical eye for that kind of thing I guess. We'll keep on striving for perfection! !