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VERY BLURRY AND GLITCHY VIDEO IN MOVEMENT PLS HELP
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PEchiOnlajn
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Hello,

Is this supposed to be normal? I don't really think so, please see the video link for the description, while I'm moving with the camera, it makes a very glitchy and blurry outcome - the videos are useless and I cant even ask my clients to get paid for today's work. I used to have Osmo Action 1 and it did not make this error in the same conditions. The blur glitch appears on various video settings the same and it appears VERY often.

https://youtu.be/Ji21JkAb1Rg

Do your Osmo Actions 3 make videos like this? I mean, I'm filming in water, and there are no hard jumps .... considering other sports this movement is to be considered very very slow...


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Fishycomics
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Called poor lighting,  you will need to  do a test Outdoors in 12 o'clock sunlight and you will notice a great difference,   you will need to tweak the settings til you  find that sweet spot.    want no jitters, turn of rocksteady and you'll have  camera shake. can not have both on these small sensor cameras
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PEchiOnlajn
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Fishycomics Posted at 3-10 13:26
Called poor lighting,  you will need to  do a test Outdoors in 12 o'clock sunlight and you will notice a great difference,   you will need to tweak the settings til you  find that sweet spot.    want no jitters, turn of rocksteady and you'll have  camera shake. can not have both on these small sensor cameras

My DJI Osmo Action 1 did no such thing in the SAME room filming the SAME thing... so I don't feel like I need to tweak and search... this simply is not acceptable and should not be considered design, I refuse to believe this.
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PEchiOnlajn
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Fishycomics Posted at 3-10 13:26
Called poor lighting,  you will need to  do a test Outdoors in 12 o'clock sunlight and you will notice a great difference,   you will need to tweak the settings til you  find that sweet spot.    want no jitters, turn of rocksteady and you'll have  camera shake. can not have both on these small sensor cameras

Also, the advice is... to turn off RockSteady? The very feature that is advertised to buy the device for? And when it malfunctions... the solution is to turn it off? :-O ... I'm speechless... if this Is how its normally works Im returning it....
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Fishycomics
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then return the camera, get a new one if you feel it is a defect. or an issue , i the jitters are noticble  do not wan to  do settings not sure what to tell ya.
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osmonauta
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Assuming "50p" means "50fps", what I've gathered from this forum is that when you are filming twice the normal (25fps) frame rate, you either need more light than you'd need for normal frame rate or you need a slower shutter. But stabilization needs fast shutter speeds to work correctly. So basically you don't have enough light for 50fps + stabilization.

Using the 180 rule, for a 50fps you'd ideally need a 1/100 shutter. But under those lighting conditions that's difficult to achieve. You could try switching to manual mode, set your shutter to 1/100 and increase your ISO. Or just use Auto (in Pro mode) and just up the ISO and the shutter will follow. (someone correct me if I'm wrong)


Also, see this thread:
https://forum.dji.com/forum.php? ... D781%26typeid%3D781


...and this one:
https://forum.dji.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=285642&extra=page%3D1%26filter%3Dtypeid%26typeid%3D781%26typeid%3D781

2023-3-10
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DJI Tony
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Hi, PEchiOnlajn. Thanks for reaching out, and we're sorry you're encountering such concerns. We will forward this to our designated team for confirmation. We'll keep you updated. Thanks for your understanding.
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DJ DJ
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osmonauta Posted at 3-10 17:45
Assuming "50p" means "50fps", what I've gathered from this forum is that when you are filming twice the normal (25fps) frame rate, you either need more light than you'd need for normal frame rate or you need a slower shutter. But stabilization needs fast shutter speeds to work correctly. So basically you don't have enough light for 50fps + stabilization.

Using the 180 rule, for a 50fps you'd ideally need a 1/100 shutter. But under those lighting conditions that's difficult to achieve. You could try switching to manual mode, set your shutter to 1/100 and increase your ISO. Or just use Auto (in Pro mode) and just up the ISO and the shutter will follow. (someone correct me if I'm wrong)

Thanks for the links, nice additional information.

You are right with your conclusion - more light, less jitter. To get the best digital stabilization, you want to have the cleanest frames. That means the least motion blur and the least noise. So rising iso to shorten the shutter speeds helps in one way but brings new problems by adding noise.
The 180 degree shutter speed rule is just to lower shutter speeds to get motion blur for a more cinematic picture - hence the use of ND filters in bright light situations e.g. But that is counterproductive for eis situations. With an action cam, you have to decide to either have a picture as sharp as possible for good eis results or a nicer looking movements by motion blur, it cannot do both.

In the video shown, the light situation is very demanding for the eis. 50fps in that lighting should result in a shutter speed of 1/50s and very high iso. That shutter speed would look great for movments because it adds motion blur, but the eis is struggling because it cannot align the single frames correctly - in that video I think at least 1/125, better 1/250 would have been needed.
Add iso noise and you get even more jittering. In addition, the fluorescent tubes may interfere with the framerate sometimes.

I don't know, which image 'flaws' work worse with RockSteady, motion blur or iso noise. I assume the latter as that affects the whole frame, but I don't know for shure.
I understand that this is a restriction when using action cams in low light condition, maybe someday the algorithms deal better with that. I don't think it's a problem only for the action 3 as I've also seen that in other action cams footage already (including gopro).


The basic rule for good results with eis should be to get the shortest shutter speeds possible and the lowest iso. There even is a setting in basic image parameters to priorize shorter shutter speeds for eis, but only when you don't use pro mode.
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PEchiOnlajn
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Thank you, everybody, for your answers but I'm still unwilling to accept this as the design because I used my DJI Osmo Action 1 in the SAME room filming the SAME thing using the SAME settings ant id did NOT flicker at all.... I bought a new camera to get a better picture, not worst.... The setting is simple I'm there using shutter 50 (because of the lights frequency) I'm using ISO 400 all on manual and the same settings did work PERFECT with osmo 1 so I'm really unhappy with digesting that osmo 3 is this much worst than osmo 1
2023-3-11
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DJ DJ
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PEchiOnlajn Posted at 3-11 00:37
Thank you, everybody, for your answers but I'm still unwilling to accept this as the design because I used my DJI Osmo Action 1 in the SAME room filming the SAME thing using the SAME settings ant id did NOT flicker at all.... I bought a new camera to get a better picture, not worst.... The setting is simple I'm there using shutter 50 (because of the lights frequency) I'm using ISO 400 all on manual and the same settings did work PERFECT with osmo 1 so I'm really unhappy with digesting that osmo 3 is this much worst than osmo 1

You are absolutely right. As I see it, DJI has gone some way to improve Rocksteady in its typical situations. Compared to the action cams 4-5 years ago, the stabilization is marvellous, making gimbals obsolete in many situations.
But on the other hand, the algorithms used are more prone to jittering. I did not encounter that jittering at all on my old yi 4k, but its EIS had other flaws, from just not stabilizing enough (it was just dampened a bit) over a jiggling picture to torn out edges.

I think, DJI pushed the parameters a bit to far, so the picture is smoother, but made it more prone to jittering in low light situations.
To be fair, I appreciate the possibilities in daylight and ditch low light filming for what the Action 3 is simply not the right tool for me at the moment.
But hopefully DJI finds a way to allow both use cases. Maybe a low light option for RockSteady - and call it NightSteady. ;) Or a way the adjust the EIS strenght. Or - best option - finds a way to cope with the jitters, but I just don't think that is possible with the current processing power.

As a short reminder - I don't own an the Osmo Action and therefore have no comparision. Maybe DJI changed parameters to enhance Rocksteady in general but amplified the jittering in low light that way.
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Fishycomics
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Have you tried  using Priority enable for low light, may help you out some
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DJI Tony
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Hi there. We just received feedback from our related team and we need to ask you to perform tests to further verify this.
For the blur issue, kindly adjust the settings based on the parameters, then capture new videos and photos, and then send them to us. Please proceed with the following:
1. We recommend that you go to a well-lit scenario and try again.
2. Photograph the back of the product’s package box (including Standard Combo and Adventure Combo).
[Please set the parameters as follows]:
1) ISO: 100-200;
2) EV: 0; Make sure that the ambient brightness is bright enough;
3) FOV: Wide
4) Resolution/Frame Rate: 16:9 & Steady Disabled & 4K25 or 4K30;
5) Fixed Capturing: Ensure that the camera and outer box remain fixed during capturing.
For the jitters or glitches, please shoot in a well-lit environment and test other frame rates.
We will be waiting for your update. Thank you.
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Fishycomics
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returning hte camera is a lot faster and less hassle, this more a delay in telling you to keep the camera, sorry but truth hurts
2023-3-12
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4wd
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It will do better if you force it to use higher shutter speed.
In Pro Mode go to exposure and change the range option to 1/200 to 1/8000 and let ISO go 100 to 1600 or 3200
Then you can still use auto exposure, click confirm.

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PEchiOnlajn
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4wd Posted at 3-12 10:57
It will do better if you force it to use higher shutter speed.
In Pro Mode go to exposure and change the range option to 1/200 to 1/8000 and let ISO go 100 to 1600 or 3200
Then you can still use auto exposure, click confirm.

I was filming this on full manual. Shutter 50 because of the frequency of the light. iso 400 I think
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PEchiOnlajn Posted at 3-12 13:06
I was filming this on full manual. Shutter 50 because of the frequency of the light. iso 400 I think

I know why you did that but set it up like this and the glitch will go away.
It's not a cinematic camera having shutter below 1/100 compromises stabilisation if you are moving it about.
It's a bit shocking DJI staff have commented here but don't know this.

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PEchiOnlajn
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4wd Posted at 3-12 13:24
I know why you did that but set it up like this and the glitch will go away.
It's not a cinematic camera having shutter below 1/100 compromises stabilisation if you are moving it about.
It's a bit shocking DJI staff have commented here but don't know this.

i can do floating ISO but i need to have fixed shutter because of the lights frequency .. so 100 or 200 will hopefully work (they are blinking at 50)
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Montfrooij
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Do you have similar footage from the action 1 that you can show for comparison?
Since you state it looks beter on the OA1
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PEchiOnlajn
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Montfrooij Posted at 3-13 02:03
Do you have similar footage from the action 1 that you can show for comparison?
Since you state it looks beter on the OA1

Of course, I do...

I don't have the raw files since I'm doing this event 3 times a year and there's no point in archiving the material. But here I have an ad I did from those previous sessions. Even the picture quality is WAY better in the same room... and NOT a single flicekr...

https://youtu.be/cKwKki7rhEU


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Montfrooij
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PEchiOnlajn Posted at 3-13 02:38
Of course, I do...

I don't have the raw files since I'm doing this event 3 times a year and there's no point in archiving the material. But here I have an ad I did from those previous sessions. Even the picture quality is WAY better in the same room... and NOT a single flicekr...

Thanks. I like the OA3 footage much better.

I'm not sure if I understand the problem in the original video.
When I look at that (the OA3), it looks quite good on my PC.
At what point do you notice a problem?
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PEchiOnlajn
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Montfrooij Posted at 3-13 02:53
Thanks. I like the OA3 footage much better.

I'm not sure if I understand the problem in the original video.

You really don't see the jitter / blurry / glitching throughout the whole posted video?
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Fishycomics
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Just  rewatch it and you see he Panns super fast it jittered, and he slowly walked forward it Jittered, what   is not  good the quality of the format he loaded to youtube causing   it to be blotchy.
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Montfrooij
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PEchiOnlajn Posted at 3-13 03:01
You really don't see the jitter / blurry / glitching throughout the whole posted video?

I want to focus on what you think is the problem.
I don't see a problem, but maybe I'm not focusing on the right thing.
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PEchiOnlajn
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Montfrooij Posted at 3-13 03:04
I want to focus on what you think is the problem.
I don't see a problem, but maybe I'm not focusing on the right thing.

Focus on the strong blurring while moving
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Montfrooij
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PEchiOnlajn Posted at 3-13 03:06
Focus on the strong blurring while moving

I see motion blur yes.
Which is caused by moving the camera quickly combined with a relatively slow shutterspeed.

This is great, since it helps reduce the jitter that you would get with a too fast shutterspeed and fast motion.

There is always a balance between 'sharp' footage (fast shutterspeed) and movement in your frame.
If you choose a fast shutterspeed, you will get less blur, but also less light on your sensor (darker footage, or higher iso with more noise) AND you might get stuttery footage (jitter) because the eye and brain process a fast moving video with fast shutterspeed (sharp frames) as stuttering.

So the best way is to dial in a slower shutterspeed (which is what you did) and move the camera slowly.
(which is NOT what you did).
And if you have to move quickly, you also have to accept the motion blur that comes with this.
And really, you WANT this motion blur, otherwise you get stuttery footage.

Just do a quick google on motion blur in video vs stuttery / jidder.
There is very good a reason why professionals usually choose a slow shutterspeed and WANT motion blur in their footage. And that is also the reason their camera's usually use slow movements instead of fast movements like you did.

Welcome to the world of videomaking!

PS, you are not the first one who asks these questions. I think this is the most common misunderstanding here on the forum when it comes to image quality.

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PEchiOnlajn
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Montfrooij Posted at 3-13 03:19
I see motion blur yes.
Which is caused by moving the camera quickly combined with a relatively slow shutterspeed.

So in conclusion the DJI Osmo Action 1 I a better camera than the DJI Osmo Action 3 since Osmo 1 did NOT do this strong blurring in the absolute same conditions (room light., speed of my movement...)

No need to welcome me into the video-making world man, I am making videos for a living for over 15 years now... please keep the discussion professional and humble. You are talking to me like I'm using the camera wrong but the main and strong point I am trying to make ....

Osmo Action 1 doing this exact work in the same exact room moving exactly the same speed gives me a perfect picture with no errors and the Osmo 3 in the same conditions gives me absolutely awful picture with blurring and jitters...

There is absolutely no way I ever accept that I'm doing a mistake here... DJI did the mistake, I bought two generations younger devices to get a better picture... not this much worst... I am absolutely disappointed and I need this to be addressed by DJI because at this point the shop won't let me return the device but I don't want it as it works this worst, I feel like I have been and I believe I really have been ripped off here...
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Montfrooij
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PEchiOnlajn Posted at 3-13 03:51
So in conclusion the DJI Osmo Action 1 I a better camera than the DJI Osmo Action 3 since Osmo 1 did NOT do this strong blurring in the absolute same conditions (room light., speed of my movement...)

No need to welcome me into the video-making world man, I am making videos for a living for over 15 years now... please keep the discussion professional and humble. You are talking to me like I'm using the camera wrong but the main and strong point I am trying to make ....

I'm not saying you don't know about videography.
This was just ment as a sarcastic joke.
Welcome to the world of videography. Since there are so many factors to consider. It can get complicated quickly.
So 'welcome to the world of videography'

And for the rest, do what you think is best.
I personally like your footage from the OA3 better than the OA1 footage you shared.
If you want sharper footage, dial in a faster shutterspeed. That will get you the same (darker, noisy) footage as you shared from the OA1. With less motion blur.
But I like how it is as you shared in the first post!
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osmonauta
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The way I see it is DJI created an action camera for outdoor enthusiasts (not indoor ones) to record anything action, eg mountain biking, skydiving, skiing, base jumping, rock climbing, or anything else you might be doing outdoors. I'm guessing that in order to provide a more stable footage during activities that can introduce substantial shaking or moving of the camera, they tweaked or changed the algorithm of the various stabilization methods. As a result, the camera can produce super steady shots during activities and motion, provided there’s adequate lighting. Since “adequate lighting” can usually be achieved outdoors, the camera is geared more towards outdoor use. Of course if you have the required amount of light, you can get a steady footage  indoors as well. Taking all this into account, in your case you don’t have the amount of light required to fulfill the requirements to take advantage of the better stabilization methods, hence older generation of devices worked differently. I am willing to bet you won’t have this problem if you will film the same scenario in an outdoor pool under the right conditions.

That’s just my guess.
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PEchiOnlajn
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Montfrooij Posted at 3-13 04:08
I'm not saying you don't know about videography.
This was just ment as a sarcastic joke.
Welcome to the world of videography. Since there are so many factors to consider. It can get complicated quickly.

I will, of course, try to go with a higher shutter next week and I really hope the blurring will disappear because, from the last session, the shots are useless, I will have to film those families again...
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PEchiOnlajn Posted at 3-13 04:28
I will, of course, try to go with a higher shutter next week and I really hope the blurring will disappear because, from the last session, the shots are useless, I will have to film those families again...

I'm curious how you will like that.
PS, you can try that in your kitchen etc. too.
So you don't have to wait for next week and can do more immediate testing.
(like film, check on your PC, change settings, check again, change settings etc. until you are satisfied. )

And maybe you can try slower moves too.
It will (in general) give a more smooth end result
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DJ DJ
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Montfrooij Posted at 3-13 03:04
I want to focus on what you think is the problem.
I don't see a problem, but maybe I'm not focusing on the right thing.

If you don't see the jittering, maybe your whole comments on slow shutter speeds to get motion blur don't apply here (beacuse you cannot notice the obvious).

There definitely is a lot of jittering in the first video that really makes it useless if you want to give it to customers.
It's not about creating motion blur because that interferes with Rocksteady. That simply does not apply here as the first video definitely has more motion blur than the EIS can handle.
You can have motion blur if you don't want image stabilization.
The problem in this thread is not to create a more cinematic look, but to eleminate the image artifacts (jitters in this case), not stuttering because of missing motion blur. That would generally be a problem in bright daylight situations, not in lowlight indoors.

Your tips won't help PEchiOnlajn, because that would only amplify the jittering.
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hurtighansen1
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Well, do not use, untestet gear for cleints. Nomatter how new and fantastic you think it is. If it's a bug, ? no ideer. But using action cams indore can be bad. I will say, use action cam stationæry indore, Use a fullframe cam, with f1.8-4.0 for movement. When i film, i use, 2-6 cams, only one moves, rest is b-role and persptives and hope for somthing funny.
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Montfrooij
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DJ DJ Posted at 3-13 10:31
If you don't see the jittering, maybe your whole comments on slow shutter speeds to get motion blur don't apply here (beacuse you cannot notice the obvious).

There definitely is a lot of jittering in the first video that really makes it useless if you want to give it to customers.

OP was asking about blur (that is what we talked about at least)
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Fishycomics
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Montfrooij Posted at 3-13 23:38
OP was asking about blur (that is what we talked about at least)

I deffently agree,  maybe if it was about EIS  that was how he expressed the jitters being bluriness  so glad it was not sharpness issues LOL

lighting is the issue on today's camera
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Fishycomics Posted at 3-14 03:06
I deffently agree,  maybe if it was about EIS  that was how he expressed the jitters being bluriness  so glad it was not sharpness issues LOL

lighting is the issue on today's camera

It is always difficult to make sure you understand eachother on a forum.
I did my best and that was all I could do
In my opinion, the OA3 footage looks a lot better. Even with the motion blur.
But there are so many 'opinions' from many people, it is getting blurry here sometimes.
(pun intended).
I have done a lot of research on both jitter and motion blur (since they are related usually and I wanted to get to the bottom of it), but apparently this is a complicated matter for many and people seem to simplify this and base their opinions on their own experience rather than research.
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Montfrooij Posted at 3-14 03:22
It is always difficult to make sure you understand eachother on a forum.
I did my best and that was all I could do
In my opinion, the OA3 footage looks a lot better. Even with the motion blur.

it all comes down to the user & camera, and  he feels his latter is better,  then keep to the older,if it ain't broken why fix it.  when I did this short video I did a comparison and learned EIS kills the footage


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aG_mXi-BW9g
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Fishycomics Posted at 3-14 04:13
it all comes down to the user & camera, and  he feels his latter is better,  then keep to the older,if it ain't broken why fix it.  when I did this short video I did a comparison and learned EIS kills the footage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aG_mXi-BW9g

Yeah, very true.
Never change a winning team.
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Montfrooij Posted at 3-13 23:38
OP was asking about blur (that is what we talked about at least)

That's why I replied to your specific post, not your following explanations... That was the point when the topic drifted away from the problem the OP described. I considered it obvious, that not the few moments when motion blur occurs could be a problem, but the many times the picture jitters (that's why the TO asked a bit incredulous, if you don't see the jittering beforehand). And yes, it clearly has to do with motion blur, because the EIS often cannot align the following frames correctly, when there is too much motion blur in the pictures. But that is not the possibly wanted motion blur to make the picture appear more cinematic. The resulting jittering sometimes appears very unnatural and may kill a whole shot.
If you don't see that kind of jittering, ok no problem here, but that may put your whole 'research' - or should it better be called 'experience', too - in a different light. But I definitely am not the one to judge, because I don't know your experience, your expertise, your background and not even your work. And you are absolutely right, many misunderstandings do happen in forums, so - sorry, if I got you wrong.

So in my 'opinion' - and I think no one here has anything else to offer than an opinion or experience - the only way to deal with the jittering of Rocksteady in the OA3 would be shorter shutter speeds. Or turn it off and do the stabilization in post if possible - but from my experience the latter does not work better ;).
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DJ DJ Posted at 3-14 10:28
That's why I replied to your specific post, not your following explanations... That was the point when the topic drifted away from the problem the OP described. I considered it obvious, that not the few moments when motion blur occurs could be a problem, but the many times the picture jitters (that's why the TO asked a bit incredulous, if you don't see the jittering beforehand). And yes, it clearly has to do with motion blur, because the EIS often cannot align the following frames correctly, when there is too much motion blur in the pictures. But that is not the possibly wanted motion blur to make the picture appear more cinematic. The resulting jittering sometimes appears very unnatural and may kill a whole shot.
If you don't see that kind of jittering, ok no problem here, but that may put your whole 'research' - or should it better be called 'experience', too - in a different light. But I definitely am not the one to judge, because I don't know your experience, your expertise, your background and not even your work. And you are absolutely right, many misunderstandings do happen in forums, so - sorry, if I got you wrong.

Yeah, that is where things went off track in this thread probably.
I assumed 'jitter' was ment as in the technical term for stuttery footage. Most often caused by too fast motion for the shutterspeed.
My bad.
I missed the 1 real problem I see during my first watch, where the image goes all over the place. If I was the OP, I would only share that part and not all the 'good' footage.
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