Is GPS really the only way to stabilize DJI drones? Is there no software or algorithms to use the onboard accelerometers and gyroscopes to hold the aircraft steady? Has DJI attempted this and if not, has it been a consideration? As a 20 year military aircraft mechanic, I know for a fact it is possilbe. I'm just looking to improve on your drones and a better user experience. Thanks.  

It's already the case. Originally there was no GNSS receiver.
You can fly the drone indoors without GNSS signal. The drone is very stable in this conditions.

LV_Forestry Posted at 3-18 04:14
It's already the case. Originally there was no GNSS receiver.
You can fly the drone indoors without GNSS signal. The drone is very stable in this conditions.

The obstacle avoidance sensors enable stabilization while flying indoors,  not the accelerometer or gyroscope. No?

DJI already use GPS + IMU sensor fusion.
And when low enough, there is always the VPS.

I'm just looking to improve on your drones and a better user experience.
What would you improve?
How would it provide a better experience?

MQNine Posted at 3-18 06:36
The obstacle avoidance sensors enable stabilization while flying indoors,  not the accelerometer or gyroscope. No?

The VPS sensors + the IMU sensors do that.

Labroides Posted at 3-18 06:36
DJI already use GPS + IMU sensor fusion.
And when low enough, there is always the VPS.

Yes. But I thought I was going to lose my $5500 M3T yesterday.  Had good satellite signal, took off to 100 ft altitude and suddenly lost all gps signal and went into attitude mode. Was extremely difficult to recover and regain some-what control. Honestly I wouldn't of been able to land it without crashing in attitude mode. Then gps suddenly came back online.  Scary experience. Was also at  night, so no VPS. Would be my second loss, as my first M3T did this and crashed into a canyon wall. Would be a huge improvement in safety and control of the drone if it could rely only on onboard sensors when outdoors. Using coding to tell the IMU to auto correct for drift is possible. And more accurate than GPS.

MQNine Posted at 3-18 06:46
Yes. But I thought I was going to lose my $5500 M3T yesterday.  Had good satellite signal, took off to 100 ft altitude and suddenly lost all gps signal and went into attitude mode. Was extremely difficult to recover and regain some-what control. Honestly I wouldn't of been able to land it without crashing in attitude mode. Then gps suddenly came back online.  Scary experience. Was also at  night, so no VPS. Would be my second loss, as my first M3T did this and crashed into a canyon wall. Would be a huge improvement in safety and control of the drone if it could rely only on onboard sensors when outdoors.

It looks like your drone had a fault. It's not normal to lose the GNSS signal like this. If this happens the drone must not become uncontrollable. Send the Log file to DJI and make a repair request, it's safer.

MQ nine, isn't it the thing that has trouble flying with a broken propeller?

LV_Forestry Posted at 3-18 06:57
It looks like your drone had a fault. It's not normal to lose the GNSS signal like this. If this happens the drone must not become uncontrollable. Send the Log file to DJI and make a repair request, it's safer.

MQ nine, isn't it the thing that has trouble flying with a broken propeller?

Nah.  It still has a jet engine it can use.

MQNine Posted at 3-18 07:14
Nah.  It still has a jet engine it can use.

You mean the exhaust from the turboprop provides enough thrust to keep it airborne?

LV_Forestry Posted at 3-18 07:18
You mean the exhaust from the turboprop provides enough thrust to keep it airborne?

Yeah. It can just use afterburner.

MQNine Posted at 3-18 07:19
Yeah. It can just use afterburner.

MQ9, afterburner ?
Maybe if someone accidentally pours fuel into the sidestream.

MQNine Posted at 3-18 06:46
Yes. But I thought I was going to lose my $5500 M3T yesterday.  Had good satellite signal, took off to 100 ft altitude and suddenly lost all gps signal and went into attitude mode. Was extremely difficult to recover and regain some-what control. Honestly I wouldn't of been able to land it without crashing in attitude mode. Then gps suddenly came back online.  Scary experience. Was also at  night, so no VPS. Would be my second loss, as my first M3T did this and crashed into a canyon wall. Would be a huge improvement in safety and control of the drone if it could rely only on onboard sensors when outdoors. Using coding to tell the IMU to auto correct for drift is possible. And more accurate than GPS.

Hi,

In ATTI mode, flying at height where bottem sensor out-of-range, craft is only baro height controlled.
It will drift on wind away, after RC input you have to apply opposite input to stop the motion.
Normal in a GPS stabilized mode after releasing sticks craft will stop the motion and is rock steady in hover. not in ATTI mode.

Would be nice to know why your M3T suddenly lost GPS and into ATTI.

But when loosing compass data, DJI drones also enters ATTI mode.
Often with a compass fail drone will start to fly away, quitte difficult to keep the drone under control.

If you like   post the flightlog on here , use this link > https://www.phantomhelp.com/LogViewer/Upload/

Post the uploaded link on here.

cheers
JJB

LV_Forestry Posted at 3-18 06:57
It looks like your drone had a fault. It's not normal to lose the GNSS signal like this. If this happens the drone must not become uncontrollable. Send the Log file to DJI and make a repair request, it's safer.

MQ nine, isn't it the thing that has trouble flying with a broken propeller?

It looks like your drone had a fault. It's not normal to lose the GNSS signal like this.
It's completely normal and should be expected flying in a canyon as in the 2nd case he mentioned.

MQNine Posted at 3-18 06:46
Yes. But I thought I was going to lose my $5500 M3T yesterday.  Had good satellite signal, took off to 100 ft altitude and suddenly lost all gps signal and went into attitude mode. Was extremely difficult to recover and regain some-what control. Honestly I wouldn't of been able to land it without crashing in attitude mode. Then gps suddenly came back online.  Scary experience. Was also at  night, so no VPS. Would be my second loss, as my first M3T did this and crashed into a canyon wall. Would be a huge improvement in safety and control of the drone if it could rely only on onboard sensors when outdoors. Using coding to tell the IMU to auto correct for drift is possible. And more accurate than GPS.

Drones that can work in GPS-denied environments are already avaliable, but much more expensive that recreational flyers would want to pay.
Have a look at Elios for details:
https://www.flyability.com/

While losing GPS might be disorienting when you first experience it, it doesn't make the drone uncontrollable.
In atti mode that drone is fully controllable, but without horizontal position holding the handling is different.

Labroides Posted at 3-18 15:49
It looks like your drone had a fault. It's not normal to lose the GNSS signal like this.
It's completely normal and should be expected flying in a canyon as in the 2nd case he mentioned.

Yes, but, at 100ft also ?

LV_Forestry Posted at 3-18 20:04
Yes, but, at 100ft also ?

As he gave no additional info, and there's no data, we can't tell what caused it or if it really was unusual.
That he seemed to think it was unusual in a canyon, suggests that you can't assume much from his minimal description.
There could be more to the story than we;ve heard so far.

When flying in a canyon, the pilot should expect a loss of GPS signal or a decrease in GPS positioning accuracy. In addition to this, if you lose visual contact with the drone it is possible to lose control even at relatively short distances (radio shadow). Failure to comply with these realities is pilot error!

A DJI representative can chime in anytime now with a 'Hey, good idea, I will pass it on to our engineering team'. Why are all of you so against my intelligent idea? Be the solution, not the problem. I put in over 60 hours of flight time in less than a month. I am not the error of the problem. GPS is unreliable. Let's improve on the drone and not your fragile egos.

MQNine Posted at 3-19 03:53
A DJI representative can chime in anytime now with a 'Hey, good idea, I will pass it on to our engineering team'. Why are all of you so against my intelligent idea? Be the solution, not the problem. I put in over 60 hours of flight time in less than a month. I am not the error of the problem. GPS is unreliable. Let's improve on the drone and not your fragile egos.

It's not that the idea isn't smart. It is that it already exists and is already implemented.
Maybe you can share your flight log to see what really happened.

It scares me that there are people out there working commercially who cannot keep a drone under control in Atti mode. Don't blame DJI, you need to go and get some experience to deal with these real world problems that you might face and should be prepared for.

I'm fairly sure that the M3T has an option in the settings to switch the tripod mode out for Atti mode. Go get some practice in.

CloudVisual Posted at 3-19 04:02
It scares me that there are people out there working commercially who cannot keep a drone under control in Atti mode. Don't blame DJI, you need to go and get some experience to deal with these real world problems that you might face and should be prepared for.

I'm fairly sure that the M3T has an option in the settings to switch the tripod mode out for Atti mode. Go get some practice in.

You're more than welcome to fly your drone at 45 mph while ascending at 13 mph, then immediately switch to ATTI mode. Lets see how easy it is for you to regain control. I did not state that I could not control my drone in ATTI mode. Please read my post again and use some reading comprehension. I've flown that route over 100 times with no lost of GPS like that. So it was sudden and I wasn't prepared.
Perhaps I'm posting in the Karen section of these forums, because there are quite a few of you here.  Is there a DJI improvement section where only DJI gets the message?

MQNine Posted at 3-19 03:53
A DJI representative can chime in anytime now with a 'Hey, good idea, I will pass it on to our engineering team'. Why are all of you so against my intelligent idea? Be the solution, not the problem. I put in over 60 hours of flight time in less than a month. I am not the error of the problem. GPS is unreliable. Let's improve on the drone and not your fragile egos.

A DJI representative can chime in anytime now with a 'Hey, good idea, I will pass it on to our engineering team'.
That's just a polite way of saying thanks for your suggestion, but it's never going anywhere.
But even if it did, drones for use in GPS denied environments would only be of interest to a tiny number of users and the cost would be much, much more than a Mavic 3.
Do a little searching to see the price of those Elios machines.

GPS unreliable?
No it's not.

MQNine Posted at 3-19 04:06
You're more than welcome to fly your drone at 45 mph while ascending at 13 mph, then immediately switch to ATTI mode. Lets see how easy it is for you to regain control. I did not state that I could not control my drone in ATTI mode. Please read my post again and use some reading comprehension. I've flown that route over 100 times with no lost of GPS like that.

Such an odd (full beans) flight path for a thermal drone of such high value, what was the rush? I don't have much fear in losing GPS in that scenario though, I fly in Atti mode a lot for this exact reason.

The flight logs (if you upload them) will tell a lot more about what actually happened. My bet is that you didn't give the drone long enough to get a GPS fix.

MQNine Posted at 3-19 04:06
You're more than welcome to fly your drone at 45 mph while ascending at 13 mph, then immediately switch to ATTI mode. Lets see how easy it is for you to regain control. I did not state that I could not control my drone in ATTI mode. Please read my post again and use some reading comprehension. I've flown that route over 100 times with no lost of GPS like that. So it was sudden and I wasn't prepared.
Perhaps I'm posting in the Karen section of these forums, because there are quite a few of you here.  Is there a DJI improvement section where only DJI gets the message?

Please post your flight log, and you'll see things will get much easier.

If you do not want to receive user reviews, do not come to the user forum to ask your question. Write directly to enterprise@dji.com. At least you are sure that no third party will answer you. DJI might not answer you as well, but that's something else.

Otherwise you have to complain to your local DJI authorized dealer. It is he who is supposed to send feedback to DJI.

CloudVisual Posted at 3-19 04:22
Such an odd (full beans) flight path for a thermal drone of such high value, what was the rush? I don't have much fear in losing GPS in that scenario though, I fly in Atti mode a lot for this exact reason.

The flight logs (if you upload them) will tell a lot more about what actually happened. My bet is that you didn't give the drone long enough to get a GPS fix.

Stupid neighbors complaining. Got to get out of sight to avoid my take off location being spotted. I get guns pointed at my drone quit often.

MQNine Posted at 4-2 19:22
Stupid neighbors complaining. Got to get out of sight to avoid my take off location being spotted. I get guns pointed at my drone quit often.

You might want to educate your neighbors about the consequences for them shooting at an aircraft.