Yesterday I shot a bunch of tests with my Pocket 2.  I varied the resolution, frame rate, color (natural vs cinelike)... and then I put on an ND32 filter to see how it affects the colors.  I filmed another 20 minutes of tests with the ND32 filter on.  When I got home, I saw that all of the ND32 filter tests were very blurry.

Examples (from raw D-Cinelike footage):

1) No filter:
2) ND32 filter :

Later, I had a clip where I removed the filter and suddenly everything was clear again.  So it's definitely the ND32 filter which caused the blurriness.

What about the ND32 filter caused that blurriness?

a) Did I have the filter on backward or upside down? I was filming straight ahead, and could read "ND32" on the top of the filter.  The magnet is stronger this way than if I had the "ND32" upside down from my perspective.  It seemed like the correct orientation.   By the way, I'm using the official set: https://store.dji.com/nz/product/osmo-pocket-nd-filters-set  

b) Could the filter have been slightly smudged?  Could the Pocket 2 have tried to focus on the filter rather than the scene?  When I looked at it this morning, I saw it wasn't 100% clean but there weren't any dramatic smudge marks or finger prints on it.

c) Or should I have done something different with the shutter speed?  I had left it on "auto".  Does the Pocket 2 need to have its shutter speed manually set when using an ND filter?

Thanks a bunch!

The three possibilities you suggested there sound all plausible to me. My thoughts on each one:
a) Personally, I do not own the DJI-branded ND filter set, I'm using third-party brands myself (PolarPro and PGYtech). Using those, I tend to attach them in a way that keeps the optical surface as far away from the lens surface as possible, as I do believe that is the way the filters are intended to be attached. For what I know, it doesn't matter which of the longer sides of the filter is pointing up. (Do feel free to correct me if I am mistaken.)
b) Smudge on the lens could explain the softness and blurriness in it's own part. It is a good idea to keep a micro-fiber cloth with you when you're on the go with the Pocket 2 and the filters, to clean possible grease, dirt and similar materia from the filters and the lens.
c) Usually, it is a good idea to use manual settings for the shutter speed and the ISO value when using filters. Adjusting manually and experimenting with different values will help finding the optimal settings for each scenario, and using the manual options makes sure the adjustments stay the way you intended. Having the Pro mode enabled is a good idea for these instances.

One more thing I could suggest: How are your focus settings? Continuous autofocus could cause some trouble with filters when attempting to maintain sharp image quality. You could be possibly better off setting the autofocus to single setting, then tapping the screen to make the focusing. That could prevent the focus from suddenly changing and making the image unexpectedly blurry.

Good luck in troubleshooting the issue!

Thanks for the response.

I just did some tests with different filters, shooting both inside my (kinda dark) room and out the window.  I monitored the image on my phone (via the app).  

I found that when I use an ND32 or ND16 filter in my dark-ish room, the picture gets so dark that I can barely see anything (let alone whether it's blurry or not).  

If I use those filters when pointing outside where it's sunny, I can see what looks to be a clean picture.  So it could be a "lack of light" issue that made everything super-soft yesterday.  It's strange, though, since the blurriness didn't seem to change yesterday as I moved through areas of different lighting.  It could also have been a smudge.

I'll try to do some more tests soon, in and out of the sun.

However, I notice that so far, I don't really notice any "improvement" when using the ND16 or ND32 filter.  The picture just becomes dark or blurry (or I guess both).  So maybe I should be starting with a lower filter?

My goal here is to reduce the drabness of the Pocket 2's colors when shooting outside.  It's winter here (in NZ) and it's been cloudy, so the predominant colors outside are grey, brown, and green, with some blue in the sky.  When I add saturation in Premiere PRo, the green of the grass pops *way* too much, making it look radioactive, so I have to back off, leaving everything kinda greyish and blah.

My GoPro does a better job finding color here and there, but GoPros are awful in low light, and there's a lot of light thanks to the clouds and denser vegetation that I pass through on my walks and jogs.  That's why I've been trying to see if I get better colors out of the Pocket 2.  The ND filters were something I needed to test.

My phone, on the other hand, is awesome at getting color out of nothing, and it's good in low light.  But it needs a gimbal for stabilisation, and gimbals are a pain for jogging (or trying to keep a low profile when around other people).

I love the low profile of the Pocket 2, so I'm hoping I can get its images looking decent.  Its weak link at this point seems to be the color, which you can see here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUj2OLOolE4&t=225

Most of the video looks very drab and dark, even when I bring up shadows in Premiere Pro.  But if I lighten things up to cater for the darker segments, then the whites blur together in other parts, like here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUj2OLOolE4&t=1386

I was hoping that ND filters would be the fix for situations like this.  D-Cinelike should help too, but I forgot to use it on that day.  

I did another test today, with ND16 and ND32 filters.

Even in bright sunlight, they both add significant blur.  For close up stuff they might be fine, but for distant details they're useless.  I'll try to upload a video soon.

UPDATE:  Here's my video, showing the blurriness I get from the official ND32 and ND16 filters in different areas around town:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45LwhH8SC14

(There's no audio because I trimmed the clips heavily and was basically saying the same thing that I later wrote in the lower left).

Tripecac Posted at 7-18 20:12
I did another test today, with ND16 and ND32 filters.

Even in bright sunlight, they both add significant blur.  For close up stuff they might be fine, but for distant details they're useless.  I'll try to upload a video soon.

Hi there. I'm sorry for the inconvenience. I'll get this forwarded to our designated team and get back to you quickly once I get an update.

I found some older tests where I used ND filters on a bright summer day (ND4, 8, 16, 32).  All of them looked pretty good, including the ND32; there wasn't noticeable blurriness.  

So I'm guessing (and this is just a guess) that ND16 and ND32 really need bright summer sunlight, and not partially cloudy winter light.  Does that make sense?  

Either that, or the settings i'm using now are less ND-friendly than the ones I used back in the summer.   But I'm pretty much using auto for everything, except EV Comp -0.7 and Max ISO 400.  Do those settings sound decent for ND filters?

Tripecac Posted at 7-20 11:24
I found some older tests where I used ND filters on a bright summer day (ND4, 8, 16, 32).  All of them looked pretty good, including the ND32; there wasn't noticeable blurriness.  

So I'm guessing (and this is just a guess) that ND16 and ND32 really need bright summer sunlight, and not partially cloudy winter light.  Does that make sense?  

You're right in that regard that the higher the ND filter value, the more brighter the circumstances they are designed to be used with. ND4 is usually recommended for dusk/dawn and indoor filming, ND16 for half-cloudy but not too dark day and ND32 for a bright, sunny summer day.

As for the advantage of the ND filters, many regard that the most advantage of them can be gained while shooting video, allowing a larger range of settings to be used and helping retain a natural-looking motion on a video.

Most often, I use manual settings with ND filters, and the best settings depend on, for instance, the brightness of the surroundings, so hard to say what options fit best for automatic settings. I think the general thought is that the closer the EV value is to zero, the more "balanced" the light exposure of the picture is.

So in my test video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45LwhH8SC14 ) do you think the darkening due to the EV Comp (- 0.7) plus the cloudy day made it too hard to get a crisp picture once I added an ND16 or ND32?  I'm just wondering why it got blurry, instead of, say, getting jumpy and blotchy, like it would if I had filmed in a dark forest.  

Why does the camera seem to lose resolution with an ND filter in that case?  Are the "pixels" getting bigger to adjust for low light?  Or is the camera focusing on something other than the background, and if so, what?

(If you watch my video you'll see me putting the ND filter on and then off with nothing else changing, and you'll see the difference in clarity.

Tripecac Posted at 7-21 07:39
So in my test video ( ) do you think the darkening due to the EV Comp (- 0.7) plus the cloudy day made it too hard to get a crisp picture once I added an ND16 or ND32?  I'm just wondering why it got blurry, instead of, say, getting jumpy and blotchy, like it would if I had filmed in a dark forest.  

Why does the camera seem to lose resolution with an ND filter in that case?  Are the "pixels" getting bigger to adjust for low light?  Or is the camera focusing on something other than the background, and if so, what?

I watched the video and can easily see why you are bothered with this drop in image sharpness. It certainly is noticeable. I have heard that having additional filters, lenses etc. in front of the camera main less does worsen the image quality to an extent, but I don't think the difference would be that big. For what I have checked on my own video footage, I haven't noticed that much loss of sharpness when using a filter. (There are some other differences in my filming style though, in that I mostly use 1080p and manual settings).

You said earlier that the ND set is manufactured by DJI themselves? I would expect better image quality with that brand. I would understand this if these were some cheap-quality no-brand filters from an online shop such as eBay or Amazon, those can occasionaly have poor quality on their materials. But DJI? Feels weird indeed.

Do you have some kind of a way to check video information on your computer (bitrate, resolution, FPS, ISO value, exposure etc.)?  I remember you saying that some footage you have taken with these filters is okay in sharpness. Could you perhaps compare the sharp and blurry footage and see if there are notable differences in the video information values?

As for the focus, have you tried toggling between the AutoFocus Single and AutoFocus Continuous modes to see i that makes a difference? And when you're filming, are you using a phone or a tablet for a bigger view (that helps to determine easier if the image is in focus or not)?

I'm sorry if I cannot directly come around with any straight answers, but more with the likes of educated guesses. I do find this pretty confusing myself, too.

Also, I've heard that polarized lenses can help in some situations, such as when wanting to eliminate excessive reflections from windows, watery surfaces, metal, snow etc. and I've heard others also claim they could help with getting better image color-wise. I do own a ND+Polarizer set, but haven't tried them that much yet, so I'm afraid I cannot comment much in that regard.

Hi, thanks for the response!

I have a video which I recorded last year, and in it I put different filters on and off while the Pocket 2 was filming, which is the same thing I did in the video you watched.  In that older video, it was a sunny autumn day, and even the ND32 did not introduce any noticeable blurriness.  That older video was recorded in the same resolution and bit rate as the new one: 4K @ 60 fps and 100 Mbs.

I just turned on the Pocket 2 and notice that AutoFocus was set to "Single".  I have no idea why it was set like that; since I record really long walks and jogs, I think "Continuous" would be more appropriate, right?  I'll try "Continuous" as soon as it gets light out (it's still kinda dark here).

When I film, I'm not monitoring on either a phone or tablet; I'm usually jogging, so am not looking at the little screen.  I use the horizon lock.

I look forward to trying Continuous.

Tripecac Posted at 7-24 12:54
Hi, thanks for the response!

I have a video which I recorded last year, and in it I put different filters on and off while the Pocket 2 was filming, which is the same thing I did in the video you watched.  In that older video, it was a sunny autumn day, and even the ND32 did not introduce any noticeable blurriness.  That older video was recorded in the same resolution and bit rate as the new one: 4K @ 60 fps and 100 Mbs.

Which AutoFocus option is better for you depends on the situation. For the jogging videos, the Continuous setting could be better, as it is recommended for videos that have a lot of motion (either by the subject or by the camera) in them. For videos with little to no movement and for still photography, Single could be a better setting.

I just tested ND32 filter with Continuous and Single.  In each test, I started with distant mountains, then turned to show nearby bookcases, then back, and then put the ND32 filter on and off.

In both cases, the ND32 didn't make the footage blurry.  Continuous looked better overall because it auto-focused on the bookcases, while Single left them blurry.  I was shooting through a pane of glass, so it wasn't the best test, but clearly I have something to try next time I am out jogging!

Thanks so much for reminding me about the AutoFocus setting!  I had completely forgotten about it.

Tripecac Posted at 7-24 15:31
I just tested ND32 filter with Continuous and Single.  In each test, I started with distant mountains, then turned to show nearby bookcases, then back, and then put the ND32 filter on and off.

In both cases, the ND32 didn't make the footage blurry.  Continuous looked better overall because it auto-focused on the bookcases, while Single left them blurry.  I was shooting through a pane of glass, so it wasn't the best test, but clearly I have something to try next time I am out jogging!

No problem, I hope you manage to get sharp footage in the future

Yesterday I flimed a hike with the Pocket 2 using an ND16 filter the entire time.  I went up the shady side of a mountain and came down the sunny side (though it was partly cloud, so not very sunny).  

In the shade, I could barely see anything on the Pocket 2's display, so I raised my EV Comp from -0.7 to 0.  I left the Max ISO at 400.  I used D-Cinelike.

The results?  Well, on the positive side, at least the footage wasn't blurry!  So I think the Continuous AutoFocus did the trick there!

Unfortunately, the colors were pretty awful, even worse than on other hikes in the same area (without ND filters).  The shady parts were darker than usual (even with the EV Comp raised from -0.7 to 0).  When I cranked up the shadows, I saw that the blacks were really noisy (with random pink splotches), so I had to leave it dark.   And then when I approached the summit and started catching glimpses of the sun, the sky became almost completely white (which is what I was trying to prevent with the ND filter).  Adding contrast made the sky and shadows even more blown out and crushed, but without contrast everything just looked so pale and grey.  I did my best to find a sweet spot, but the results are anything but sweet!

So I am wondering: should I have increased the Max ISO from 400 to something better able to handle the dark?  Or do you think ND16 is still too strong for a shady / partly cloudy day?

Tripecac Posted at 7-28 18:51
Yesterday I flimed a hike with the Pocket 2 using an ND16 filter the entire time.  I went up the shady side of a mountain and came down the sunny side (though it was partly cloud, so not very sunny).  

In the shade, I could barely see anything on the Pocket 2's display, so I raised my EV Comp from -0.7 to 0.  I left the Max ISO at 400.  I used D-Cinelike.

For what I know, the D-Cinelike mode is intended to be used in cases when you're planning on color-grading and adjusting the brightness/contrast of the footage in the post-processing, so by itself, it can look pretty dull.

As for the ISO value, it may be necessary to put the value higher in low lighting. How high, depends on the situation. While high ISO value can help make the details more noticeable in the dark, it can also introduce graininess in the footage. So that may become a case of trial-and-error.

Hi, yesterday was very sunny, so I filmed another walk/jog with the Pocket 2, this time using the ND8 filter (instead of 16 or 32).  I left EVComp at 0 and set Max ISO to 1600 instead of 400.  And finally, I took a different trail which avoids going in any deep shade.  My goal was to see how well the Pocket 2's colors would improve when using an ND filter in sunny conditions.

Unfortunately, every clip is blurry, just like in that original post.  

So I just turned back on the Pocket 2 (after seeing the blurry footage on my PC), and see that "AutoFocus" is back to "Single".  What???  I would never use"Single", since we've established that "Single" causes blurriness when using ND filters!

Does the Pocket 2 automatically reset the AutoFocus to "Single"?  If not, then maybe my finger accidentally brushed that button en route to changing the Max ISO...  Very frustrating!  I wish there were a confirmation prompt on the AutoFocus button, something like: "Are you sure you want to using Single AutoFocus with an ND filter which you already know will make your footage blurry?  Tap OK for blurriness or Cancel for a chance at decent footage."  Of course, there's not nearly enough screen real estate for that on the Pocket 2, but at the very least to change the AutoFocus you should have to drill into a secondary menu like you do with the other PRO settings.

Next time I film (which might be a few days), I will have to make 100% sure that AutoFocus is still set to "Continuous"!!!

Anyway, although the footage is blurry, the colors are better than the last hike.  This was probably because it was a sunny walk mostly in the open.  So I guess I should stick to places like that for my videos.  

I had recorded in D-Cinelike, and tried using different LUTs, but none are ideal.  The best one color-wise ends up with pixellated banding in the sky, which is no good. I ended up picking one that is a little too contrasty (causing it to lose details in the really bright and dark areas), so I reduced it to about 80%, and then added a little manual saturation and shadow lightening, but dropped the highlights to almost 0.  I think even with an ND filter, raising the EV Comp to 0 really blows out the sky whenever I'm walking through light vegetation (dark branches against a light[er] sky).

Do you use LUTs?  I've been using them mostly because the "experts" keep talking about them and I presume they do something beyond just the normal saturation/exposure type sliders.  Something about color wheels and curves and that stuff I haven't learned.

I wish I could take a still photo with my phone (which usually looks much better than the Pocket 2 or GoPro), find the same scene in the video, and then tell Premiere Pro to "match these colors".  Don't the pros do that with color charts?  That would simplify color correction big time!  I presume.  I really don't know.  I don't understand why the colors on the Pocket 2 and GoPro both look much worse than my phone, which isn't exactly top-of-the-line.  (It's a Samsung S20 Fan Edition from 2020).  

I can see why so many successful travel vloggers simply use their phones on a gimbal.  Not only do they get great colors, but they always have their phones with them anyway, and filming with a phone doesn't draw nearly as much attention as a GoPro or even a Pocket 2.

I've been trying to follow the example of ProWalk Tours; his videos are top-notch, IMO.  I bought the same gear as him (GoPros, gimbal, and then Pocket 2), and use the same software as him, but can only guess as to his settings and editing techiniques.  My hope has been to somehow stumble across a "magic" combination of camera settings and post-production techniques which work well for what I want to film: hiking and biking trails rather than city streets.  But I'm starting to realise that sunny European plazas might be more inherently "photogenic" than bushy New Zealand trails, at least when it comes to amateur videography.  

Meanwhile I notice that ProWalk Tours has "graduated" from a GoPro to a Sony a7siii, which costs 10x as much and requires a much bigger rig.  I don't feel like following those footsteps because (a) the cost, and (b) I really can't be jogging around in the bush for hours with a rig that looks like this: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/MNS89jOsnRM

Anyway, hopefully there will be a sunny day this week when I can try another ND filter test.  I kinda feel like I'm expecting too much from the Pocket 2, though.  I just wish I could get its colors looking like my phone!!!

Tripecac Posted at 7-30 09:43
Hi, yesterday was very sunny, so I filmed another walk/jog with the Pocket 2, this time using the ND8 filter (instead of 16 or 32).  I left EVComp at 0 and set Max ISO to 1600 instead of 400.  And finally, I took a different trail which avoids going in any deep shade.  My goal was to see how well the Pocket 2's colors would improve when using an ND filter in sunny conditions.

Unfortunately, every clip is blurry, just like in that original post.   

It does indeed sound weird, that reverting to AutoFocus Single. Not sure what causes that. Has your Pocket 2 worked as usual otherwise?

Tripecac Posted at 7-30 11:59
Anyway, although the footage is blurry, the colors are better than the last hike.  This was probably because it was a sunny walk mostly in the open.  So I guess I should stick to places like that for my videos.  

I had recorded in D-Cinelike, and tried using different LUTs, but none are ideal.  The best one color-wise ends up with pixellated banding in the sky, which is no good. I ended up picking one that is a little too contrasty (causing it to lose details in the really bright and dark areas), so I reduced it to about 80%, and then added a little manual saturation and shadow lightening, but dropped the highlights to almost 0.  I think even with an ND filter, raising the EV Comp to 0 really blows out the sky whenever I'm walking through light vegetation (dark branches against a light[er] sky).

I'll have to admit I unfortunately am not skilled enough to use LUTs myself, I really ought to take some time at some point and really study about it. I've heard that they are a great way to affect the look and overall feel of the footage, for instance emphasizing some colour ranges for stylistic choices.

I have noticed myself that sometimes, the Pocket 2 does get a surprising amount of attention despite (or maybe even because of?) the minuscule size. When I was filming a car parade festival in my city, a compeletely random passerby stopped me and asked: "Sorry to disturb you, but I have to ask: What on Earth is that thing?"

It is easy to understand your hesitance for exchanging for a bigger rig, for many situations that just isn't convenient or practical enough. While there are areas where the Pocket 2 is not perfect, the size factor makes it an ideal tool for a travel camera.

As for the colours, do you have regular or polarized ND filters? Haven't tested myself that much, but I've heard some people say polarized filters can enhance the colours of the footage in some scenarios.

I filmed another walk today, with the ND8 filter.  I made sure the AutoFocus was set to Continuous.  The footage looks good and crisp (not blurry).  So it definitely seems like Single AutoFocus is the enemy of HD filters!

The filters I have are these: https://store.dji.com/nz/product/osmo-pocket-nd-filters-set - The page doesn't mention whether they are polarized, so I assume they're not.

Tomorrow I'll see how well the latest video colourised / colorizes  (it's hard to stay consistent with the spelling sometimes)!

Tripecac Posted at 7-30 21:39
I filmed another walk today, with the ND8 filter.  I made sure the AutoFocus was set to Continuous.  The footage looks good and crisp (not blurry).  So it definitely seems like Single AutoFocus is the enemy of HD filters!

The filters I have are these: https://store.dji.com/nz/product/osmo-pocket-nd-filters-set - The page doesn't mention whether they are polarized, so I assume they're not.

I don't think the official DJI ones have polarization, but there are at least PolarPro, PGYtech and Freewell branded ones that have polarizers (either by just themselves or with the ND filters integrated in).

Good luck with further exploration on the issue!

Not 100% sure but it looks like out of focus.
I have PolarPro ND filters and Freewell, but so far no real issues.
Did you test with other densities?

How frustrating, I have had great results with the Freewell filters!