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Why no classification of DJI existing drones
2602 32 2023-10-31
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Asif Saleem
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Hello Dji Support,

I own Mavic Air 2 with fly more combo + smart controller and much more add on.

I am very disappointed as a customer and will ask very seriously why the existing droneswill no longer classified?

That is why I spent a lot of money on my Dji drone that I will not even be allow to fly with my A1/A3 and A2 licence in residential areas etc. from 01.01.2024. (with legal requirements) as it was until now?

It's not my fault that my drone class won't get a classification, as a manufacturer Dji must to take care to classify the existing drones afterwards.

Therefore I ask Dji manufacturer to classify Mavic Air 2 as well. Otherwise I will only have my drone as a decorative piece at home.

Furthermore, I would like to have the responsible contact details where I can turn in case of legal action.

Thank you in advance for the quick feedback


Regards,
Asif

New EU Drone Regulation as of 01.01.2024

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Hallo Dji Support,

ich besitze die Mavic Air 2 mit Fly More Combo + Smart Controller und vielen weiteren Extras.

Ich bin als Kunde sehr enttäuscht und frage sehr ernsthaft, warum die bestehenden Drohnen wie Mavic Air 2 nicht mehr klassifiziert werden?

Deshalb habe ich viel Geld für meine Dji Drohne ausgegeben, die ich ab 01.01.2024 nicht einmal mehr mit meiner A1/A3 und A2 Pilotenscheine in Wohngebieten etc. (mit gesetzlichen Vorgaben) fliegen darf, wie bisher?

Es ist nicht meine Schuld, dass meine Drohnenklasse keine Klassifizierung bekommt, als Hersteller muss Dji dafür sorgen, dass die bestehenden Drohnen (Bestandsdrohnen) nachträglich klassifiziert werden.

Deshalb bitte ich den Hersteller Dji, auch die Mavic Air 2 zu klassifizieren. Andernfalls werde ich meine Drohne nur als Dekorationsstück zu Hause haben.

Des Weiteren möchte ich gerne die zuständigen Kontaktdaten haben, an die ich mich im Falle eines Rechtsweges wenden kann.

Vielen Dank im Voraus für die schnelle Rückmeldung.

Beste Grüße,
Asif Saleem

Neue EU Drohnenverordnung ab 01.01.2024

2023-10-31
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The Saint
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When you bought the drone, what classification did you believe it to have?
2023-10-31
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Asif Saleem
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The Saint Posted at 10-31 18:35
When you bought the drone, what classification did you believe it to have?
My drone weight 570g. I would have C1 classification.
2023-11-1
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DAFlys
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Perhaps that drone doesnt meet the requirements of the classification system
2023-11-1
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Asif Saleem
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Which drone you mean?
2023-11-1
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Asif Saleem
lvl.2
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Mavic Air 2 is fit to have C1 classification.
2023-11-1
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DJI Wanda
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Hello, there. According to EASA regulations, products placed on the market before December 31, 2023 can continue to use the Previous regulations, for more details of the previous regulations,please refers to
https://www.easa.europa.eu/en/do ... tegory-civil-drones
2023-11-1
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LV_Forestry
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DJI Wanda Posted at 11-1 01:39
Hello, there. According to EASA regulations, products placed on the market before December 31, 2023 can continue to use the Previous regulations, for more details of the previous regulations,please refers to
https://www.easa.europa.eu/en/domains/civil-drones/drones-regulatory-framework-background/open-category-civil-drones

Wanda, unfortunately this statement is not right.
2023-11-1
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DAFlys
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Asif Saleem Posted at 11-1 01:16
Mavic Air 2 is fit to have C1 classification.

I don't believe thats the case as the propellers are the older hard style propellors and not the newer softer material with the rubber orange tips.
2023-11-1
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Asif Saleem
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DJI Wanda Posted at 11-1 01:39
Hello, there. According to EASA regulations, products placed on the market before December 31, 2023 can continue to use the Previous regulations, for more details of the previous regulations,please refers to
https://www.easa.europa.eu/en/domains/civil-drones/drones-regulatory-framework-background/open-category-civil-drones

Hello Wanda,

Definitely not, your statement is not correct. I recommend you to  review the new EU regulations from 01.01.2024. Below the Point 2 (specially red marked) is important which denied existing rules with A2, since this is the rule valid untill 01.01.2024.

For your Information

1 - Permanent Regulation
The permanent "rough" regulation divides all stock drones without classification into 2 groups with different requirements:

1a- for drones with a take-off weight below 250 grams maximum permissible take-off mass, the following applies: these drones may be operated in the OPEN category in sub-category A1 - i.e. also close to people.
The operating instructions must be followed. No EU drone licence (neither the small nor the large EU drone licence) is required.
This includes, for example, the drone models DJI Mavic MINI or DJI MINI 2 and DJI MINI 3 Pro.

1b- All drones above 250 grams and up to 25kg take-off mass apply:
These drones may only be flown in category A3 (i.e. far away from people) (exceptions see below in the transitional regulation).


2- Temporary optional transitional regulation
There are some exceptions that are limited in time. These regulations are only optional (i.e. voluntary). If these "relaxations" are not needed, anyone can also simply fly according to the rough rules above.
This transitional rule affects all drones that do not yet have a classification/marking and were put on the market before 1.1.2024. Furthermore, this rule is time-limited and only applies until 1.1.2024 :

2a - for drones weighing more than 250 grams but less than 500 grams: these drones may be operated with the small EU drone licence (EU certificate of competence) in the OPEN category in the A1 subcategory close to people.

2b- for drones over 500 grams but under 2 kg the following applies: if the large EU drone licence (see: EU Remote Pilot Certificate) is also obtained, this drone may also be operated closer to people (category OPEN - subcategory A2 - see above). However, in this case there is not the minimum distance of 30 metres to people specified in A2, but a minimum distance of 50 metres to people. Furthermore, the exception of 5 metres distance in slow mode described in A2 does not apply either.
2023-11-1
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Asif Saleem
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@wanda
Can you please share information on what dji will do about the above mentioned issue?

As a DJI product user, I am worried what will happen to my drone from 01/01/2024? As already mentioned, I would like DJI to have existing drones reclassified by 01.01.2024 or replace the existing drones with classified drones as we as DJI customers are currently only losing a lot of money that we have invested in expensive DJI products, as we will no longer be able to fly existing drones as before that are not classified, according to EU regulations.

Looking forward to get your Feedback as soon as possible

Regards,
Asif (Germany)
2023-11-2
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DJI Wanda
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Asif Saleem Posted at 11-2 11:11
@wanda
Can you please share information on what dji will do about the above mentioned issue?

Sorry for the late response. We confirmed with our teams again.
Mavic Air 2 does not have a plan to support CX certification. Since old products that were launched in the early stages are difficult to meet the technical requirements of the new regulations, they no longer support Cx certification.
According to EASA regulations, products that were launched before 2023/12/31 can continue to be used and can still fly in the open category starting from 2024/1/1 (Below 250g, fly in A1 environment; others fly in A3 environment).
2023-11-8
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LV_Forestry
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DJI Wanda Posted at 11-8 01:22
Sorry for the late response. We confirmed with our teams again.
Mavic Air 2 does not have a plan to support CX certification. Since old products that were launched in the early stages are difficult to meet the technical requirements of the new regulations, they no longer support Cx certification.
According to EASA regulations, products that were launched before 2023/12/31 can continue to be used and can still fly in the open category starting from 2024/1/1 (Below 250g, fly in A1 environment; others fly in A3 environment).

Thank you dear Wanda for this clarification which will certainly cause a lot of noise.
2023-11-8
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Dirty Bird Posted at 11-8 03:33
"My 1965 Ford Fairlane fails to meet the seatbelt & emissions standards implemented after it was manufactured.  Ford refuses to make it compliant.  I'm suing!"

Did Ford marinate you for several months by letting you understand that compliance was going to be done?
2023-11-8
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Dirty Bird Posted at 11-8 04:06
The Mavic Air 2 was released in April 2020, nearly 4 years ago.  No one could have accurately predicted the regulatory landscape & requirements of 2024.  How much time & money should DJI invest attempting to make compliant a 4-year old, out-of-production, model, if it is even technically possible?

Yes except that law 945 dates from 2019...
Only its application has been delayed to give manufacturers time to comply.  We therefore had the right to expect DJI to do something.  Even if nothing forces them to.
2023-11-8
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Asif Saleem
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@Wanda
This is very unfortunate that you are now allow to fly it with Open A3 (Away from City, away from residential areas etc..),
I have done my A2 License and invested money for accessories. Niw you are even not able to fly it in your areas.
Again, my question, is it our fault that the rules have been changes in Europe?

I have bought my Mavic air 2 end of 2021. And again you can fly it with Open category A3.

Please provide me the contact of your leagal Team in Germany, since i have no any other possibility to take a leagal action now.

Regards,
Asif
2023-11-8
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LV_Forestry
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Asif Saleem Posted at 11-8 07:55
@Wanda
This is very unfortunate that you are now allow to fly it with Open A3 (Away from City, away from residential areas etc..),
I have done my A2 License and invested money for accessories. Niw you are even not able to fly it in your areas.
Think carefully before embarking on legal recourse which could be even more expensive.  
DJI has no obligation to comply with the requirements of Law 2019/945.  The drone and its accessories are CE compliant and therefore authorize use in A3.

Legal@dji.com
2023-11-8
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Asif Saleem
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LV_Forestry Posted at 11-8 08:04
Think carefully before embarking on legal recourse which could be even more expensive.  
DJI has no obligation to comply with the requirements of Law 2019/945.  The drone and its accessories are CE compliant and therefore authorize use in A3.


Hello,

it's not about going against EU law, but about compensation for the customer.

I use my drone for various events, most of which take place in city centres. Not only that, according to the new law, I would not be able to fly over people gatherings to record videos. This also prevents from 01.01.2024.

We, as customers, are losing the money we have invested in Dji drones.

@Dirty Bird: I'm not talking about any Vehicle from 1985, that example doesn't fit here in my case and sounds idiotic.

Regards,
Asif


2023-11-8
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Asif Saleem
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DJI Wanda Posted at 11-8 01:22
Sorry for the late response. We confirmed with our teams again.
Mavic Air 2 does not have a plan to support CX certification. Since old products that were launched in the early stages are difficult to meet the technical requirements of the new regulations, they no longer support Cx certification.
According to EASA regulations, products that were launched before 2023/12/31 can continue to be used and can still fly in the open category starting from 2024/1/1 (Below 250g, fly in A1 environment; others fly in A3 environment).

Hello Wanda,

Thank you very much for further information.

Is there any possibility for DJI to replace the existing drones with a certified drone like DJI Air 3 with price differnce on top?

is DJI situated in Germany? I could not find a DJI dealer that would be located here in Germany.

Nearest DJI distributor is in Amsterdam, but this is outside Germany and cannot be contacted legally.

Please advise.

Regards,
Asif
2023-11-8
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Dirty Bird Posted at 11-8 11:01
What sounds idiotic is threatening litigation against the manufacturer of a product for not complying with rules that were not in effect at the time the product was manufactured or sold.  If your government put in place a new vehicle rule that essentially rendered useless all existing vehicles, that is not the fault of the manufacturer of those vehicles.  Nor would it be their responsibility to make you whole.

The blame & responsibility for your loss lies squarely on the shoulders of those who created the legislation.  Band together with others & seek recourse from those who created the legislation.  Demand they modify the legislation to grandfather aircraft manufactured & purchased before new requirements were put in place, else insist they compensate owners for the loss of use.

It is not so simple. The grandfather's rule exists,
-below 250g, put on the market before the application of the law, it authorizes A1 and A3.
-above 250g it only allows A3 which remains the widest use case.

But !  There are specific provisions in law 2019/947 for professional use.

In the case of our friend and his Air 2 he must complete a PDRA risk assessment procedure which corresponds to his area of use, obtain an operator number and then that's it.
2023-11-8
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izotop
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"legacy" drone class is easa biggest b.s. to date. we have perfectly operating drones practically 100% same as c class ones. it's nothing to do with safety etc, it is purely (geo) political thing, which in the end, works for dji too (for now, till they banned them completely), so they goes with it.
2023-11-9
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izotop
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Dirty Bird Posted at 11-8 03:33
"My 1965 Ford Fairlane fails to meet the seatbelt & emissions standards implemented after it was manufactured.  Ford refuses to make it compliant.  I'm suing!"

comparing 65 ford with latest vehicles is not really good example (we're talking practically 2010 vs 2015 cars here) and older cars can legally be still driven on the road, one way or another. they don't just say , from now one, you can only drive your 2010 car on some forgotten , not tarmac road etc.
this legacy thing ids biggest nonsense that happen to (civil) drone community to date, and it has nothing to do with safety, common sense or anything really, except already mentioned before.
2023-11-9
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izotop Posted at 11-9 03:09
"legacy" drone class is easa biggest b.s. to date. we have perfectly operating drones practically 100% same as c class ones. it's nothing to do with safety etc, it is purely (geo) political thing, which in the end, works for dji too (for now, till they banned them completely), so they goes with it.

Could you elaborate on why you think this is not for safety? This interests me, I must have missed something.
2023-11-9
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Asif Saleem
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@Izotop: you are absolutely right and i am trying to explain the same here in this conversation with Dji. This is just bull... of politics in EU.

Therefore I can never accept that Dji does not do any favor for thier EU-consumer who paid a lot of money for Dji products. How can DJI  leave thier customers alone?? Because Dji know that  EU Consumers will be pressurized to buy new drones with C1 or C2 classified by force, since they haven't any other possibility.

Who will buy my drone-bundle in europe if everyone knows that all existing drones are now garbage and they haven't worth any more.

What Dji Europe is doing except they dont care about thier existing consumers regading this situation.

@DJI Team: you must compensate and exchange our Drones with classified drones. We are ready to pay the price difference.

Otherwise provide me contact of Dji leagal Team in Germany or who is responsible for german consumer.

Regards,
Asif
2023-11-9
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Asif Saleem
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By the way which technical safety risk has Mavic Air 2?

I could fly it in the cities, over the people gathering and i could fly with every functions which mavic air 2 has. So what is suddenly the safety reason that these drones doesn't meet those criterias?
2023-11-9
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Asif Saleem
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Dirty Bird Posted at 11-9 14:05
You keep blaming DJI as though they drafted the EU drone regulations.  Why do you believe it is DJI's responsibility to cover you for the actions of the EU imbeciles in Brussels?  It is they towards whom you should direct your anger & demands.

I blame DJI for ice coldly refusing to accommodate their existing customers. As mentioned above in this conversation, the planning of the new EU regulation has been going on since 2019, why didn't Dji adapt, the drones produced from 2019 onwards to C1/C2 Enorm?  
Why then are drones such as Mavic 3 / Mavic 3 Cine, Mini 3 and Mini 3 Pro allowed to be classified ONLINE AFTER with online Firmware update?

What is the technical difference here that one class of existing drones fulfill but the others do not although they can do much more than mini 3 or similar to Mavic 3? Why did DJI decide to retroactively certify only the above mentioned drones from 09.12.2022 and not the others that were also produced and sold at the end of 2021?

Did DJI not make this decision?

I'm just concerned to compensate consumers as I'm not the only one having this issue. And I'm not talking here about 20 year old drones but the drones that are still available in the market to buy.

Again, Dji needs to find a suitable solution.
2023-11-10
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Asif Saleem Posted at 11-10 09:30
I blame DJI for ice coldly refusing to accommodate their existing customers. As mentioned above in this conversation, the planning of the new EU regulation has been going on since 2019, why didn't Dji adapt, the drones produced from 2019 onwards to C1/C2 Enorm?  
Why then are drones such as Mavic 3 / Mavic 3 Cine, Mini 3 and Mini 3 Pro allowed to be classified ONLINE AFTER with online Firmware update?

I love the way people say DJI should 'fix' something yet make no suggestion as to what DJI could do.


Since you are so involved ...... do you have any suggestions as to what DJI could do, if so what are they?
2023-11-10
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Asif Saleem
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Hi,
My suggestion stated above. Read it! #21

I'm surprised that no one official from DJI replying here since long time.
2023-11-10
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Sean-bumble-bee
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Asif Saleem Posted at 11-10 13:20
Hi, My suggestion stated above. Read it! #21

I see nothing that I unserstand to be a suggesdtion in post 21.
2023-11-10
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Asif Saleem
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Exchange of existing drone with the classified drone like Air 3  with difference of price on Top. What is here difficult to understand as suggestion?
2023-11-10
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Asif Saleem Posted at 11-10 13:53
Exchange of existing drone with the classified drone like Air 3  with difference of price on Top. What is here difficult to understand as suggestion?

Ah post 32, but  that I know of DJI has never offered a "trade in" to the massesand what are they supposed to do with the old drones?
I don't think it's a realistic option.
2023-11-10
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Asif Saleem
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What Dji will do with the old drones? Really?


They can sell them or exchange them in the case of care refresh, out of Europe where the new EU regulation NOT applying. Like in US, Canada, Australia and in many other countries.

What do you think, how care referesh works!
2023-11-10
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Asif Saleem
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Well said, by the way, it's your opinion.

I am asking Dji for the contact here in Germany for the leagal action.

Many thanks for your information and let me do wht i do.
2023-11-10
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