Hi, if I was thinking of declassifying the M4P before the end of this year and using the C1 classification of the drone, is this even possible in EU legislation?

According to EASA eRules for UAS, a drone with a C1 designation is required to have a working RID system as well as GEO-Awareness.  Does the M4P and RC2 allow for these features?

If using for example the battery from the M3P and especially the Intelligent Flight Battery Plus 3850 mAh battery, this would probably be the only 'legal' way to go. Is this a 'grey area' issue or is there a legal solution?
In my case, the main reason for declassifying is not to be able to fly above 120 (in our area most of the altitude is limited anyway due to CTR - airports), but to eliminate MTOM issues and to be categorized as C0.
I have my A1/A3 pilot certification and should be getting my A2 soon, so I'm figuring out my options and what I may need to accomplish before the end of the year.

Thanks for the info!

Hi there. Thank you for reaching out. For DJI Mini 4 pro, which has already applied for the removal of the 120m height limit in 2023, there will no longer be a mandatory label requirement after 2024, and you can still fly the drone up to 500m, so there is no need to apply for a C1(C0) label and the C1(C0) application is not supported.
You may check this link for more information: https://viewpoints.dji.com/blog/ ... RQgoCu-141774175875

Notes:

1. For those who have removed the C0 label in 2023, there is no chance to have C0 label anymore, and there will be no 120m altitude limitation afterwards (still can fly up to 500m). No mandatory requirement for such a scenario after 2024.
2. For those who do not remove the C0 label in 2023, there will be chances to keep the C0 label with the 120m restriction, and chances to apply for the C1 label after 2024 (while the procedure TBD).
3. For those who purchase in 2024, there will be a non-removable mandatory category identification label.

Hi Paladin, thanks! It's a mess (at least for me..) :]

I still don't know if it is possible to fly with C0/C1 category drones under A2 license in the EU  or if only C2 drones are allowed under the new rules. I have sent an inquiry to the Czech Civil Aviation Authority and they have not yet sent a reply.
I'll just fly with the known rules and my best judgment and hopefully, it won't lead to any penalty

The limits for the OPEN category in the EU are quite clear, with or without a label. The SPECIFIC category is, at least for me, already too complicated and expensive for hobby flying.

But since I'm curious, I have a few questions on the subject:
* if I declassify the M4P drone, will it still be possible to get new updates for the drone and RC2 in the future?
* if I understand correctly, will it be possible to declassify the M4P drone (purchased in 2023) even in 2024 - or not? I'm still not sure about this and the possible deadline for making the change is getting shorter.. I don't know what "procedure TBD" means.
* is it possible to get RID and Geo-Awareness features for the M4P if I operate it as a C1? IMHO remote identification will not be available for M4P (missing hw I suppose), but Geo-Awareness feature might be available in RC2 (if the controller also supports C1/C2 drones)
* So is there any advantage to leaving the official C0 label on the M4P? If I understand correctly, perhaps the only advantage is that in some non-EU countries, it is not necessary to have a license to fly.

Thanks!

DJI Paladin Posted at 12-5 00:15
Hi there. Thank you for reaching out. For DJI Mini 4 pro, which has already applied for the removal of the 120m height limit in 2023, there will no longer be a mandatory label requirement after 2024, and you can still fly the drone up to 500m, so there is no need to apply for a C1(C0) label and the C1(C0) application is not supported.
You may check this link for more information: https://viewpoints.dji.com/blog/dji-mini-series-altitude-limit-eu?hs_preview=CcRQgoCu-141774175875

What you're saying above is unaccurate with regards to the Viewpoints link you provided.

You're saying here that unlabeled>C1 upgrade wouldn't be available in 2024, but when you look at the disclaimer that me and other folks got when asking to remove the C0 label, it says :
"Once the C0 label is removed before 31/12/23, there will be no option to reapply for it [1]. Starting from 2024, a compliant pathway for applying for the C1 label will be made available [2]".

For me :
[1] means that once you remove the C0 label, you can't have it again. Cool.
[2] means that once you remove the C0 label in 2023, you need to wait until 2024 for asking to get a C1 label.

Pahtath Posted at 12-5 03:32
What you're saying above is unaccurate with regards to the Viewpoints link you provided.

You're saying here that unlabeled>C1 upgrade wouldn't be available in 2024, but when you look at the disclaimer that me and other folks got when asking to remove the C0 label, it says :

It may be a translation problem, but I understand exactly the same thing as you.

DJI must do what is necessary to clarify.

LV_Forestry Posted at 12-5 03:44
It may be a translation problem, but I understand exactly the same thing as you.

DJI must do what is necessary to clarify.

While there is around one topic per day asking DJI to clarify about the regulations and the C0/C1 labels, I still continue to see the exact same answer from DJI that's more than slightly different from what DJI told me directly thru the declassify weblink when I accepted to remove my C0 label.

This situation is horribly confusing and I do totally understand that only a handful of people at DJI may exactly know about the C1 process, but I beg DJI here to take in account our wonderings and either clarify the statements they say, or slightly modify the answer they give : surely, an unlabeled drone isn't *required* to be labeled with C1 in 2024, but what if the operator wants to ?

Pahtath Posted at 12-6 05:40
While there is around one topic per day asking DJI to clarify about the regulations and the C0/C1 labels, I still continue to see the exact same answer from DJI that's more than slightly different from what DJI told me directly thru the declassify weblink when I accepted to remove my C0 label.

This situation is horribly confusing and I do totally understand that only a handful of people at DJI may exactly know about the C1 process, but I beg DJI here to take in account our wonderings and either clarify the statements they say, or slightly modify the answer they give : surely, an unlabeled drone isn't *required* to be labeled with C1 in 2024, but what if the operator wants to ?

What is annoying is that drones declassified before 2024 will not be able to have a C1, therefore will not be able to legally access A1 with accessories potentially authorized in C1 that are not authorized in C0...

Well done DJI !

So to sum up the current status of knowledge, correct me if I am wrong:

1) We know for sure that the M4P drone can be declassified and (with normal battery) fly under the A1 category - in Europe at the very least - meaning that basically nothing changes, you're free to fly according to the laws and the limit is 500m.
2) We know that the drone is C1-compliant and can be reclassified directly from C0 to C1 come necessity in 2024. This changes 120m limit to 500m limit and requires you to complete a training, but this way you can also use the Plus battery AND the rest basically stays the same as right now.

What we do not know:

1) Can the drone be declassified TODAY (2023) and then in 2024 reclassified as C1 with no problem?
2) In relation to 1), can declassification be problematic in terms of flying outside of Europe? I know that in the US they are also starting to require Remote ID, so it's curious to me whether I would be able to fly my non-classified, under 250g drone there without a problem. That is my main concern, as I am travelling, along with the other concern being a possibility of using the Plus battery somewhere down the line.

Pahtath Posted at 12-5 03:32
What you're saying above is unaccurate with regards to the Viewpoints link you provided.

You're saying here that unlabeled>C1 upgrade wouldn't be available in 2024, but when you look at the disclaimer that me and other folks got when asking to remove the C0 label, it says :

Thank you for your response. Aircraft that have applied for the C0 label in 2023 can be used normally in the A1 environment without applying for the C1 label. Therefore, it is not supported to apply for the C1 label again. We will continue to record this feedback of yours and will forward it to the respective team for attention. Please check the 3 scenarios below:

1. For those who have removed the C0 label in 2023, there is no chance to have the C0 label anymore, and there will be no 120m altitude limitation afterward (still can fly up to 500m). No mandatory requirement for such a scenario after 2024.

2. For those who do not remove the C0 label in 2023, there will be chances to keep the C0 label with the 120m restriction, and chances to apply for the C1 label after 2024 (while the procedure TBC).

3. For those who purchase in 2024, there will be a non-removable mandatory category identification label.

"Aircraft that have applied for the C0 label in 2023 can be used normally in the A1 environment without applying for the C1 label. Therefore, it is not supported to apply for the C1 label again."

No, they can't if their weight exceeds 250g. It is really not difficult to understand what people are asking about.

If I remove C0, I basically can't use my drone in A1 if I for example switch the battery. I would have to fly in A3. As opposed to being able to reclassify it as C1, in which case I could use the heavier battery in A1. NO C0 DOES NOT EQUAL C1 IN CERTAIN SCENARIOS.

All in all, as I understand, it's just a gamble - if I think I won't be using any accessories, I can go with declassification, if I think I might - I have to wait for the possibility of reclassification while being stuck with C0.

This is all honestly pretty dumb and I see no reason why I would have to stick with C0 until the path to C1 is unlocked instead of being able to remove it now and reapply later. Guess I need to waste a whole winter worth of mountain shots while waiting for C1 to be available, or just climb to the top of the mountain in 3 metres of snow because apparently if I launch from there - all is good.
By the way, you should probably change this part in the declassification screen - it makes most people think that even if they remove C0, they will have the path to C1 unlocked in the next months.

civic_enjoyer Posted at 12-7 02:30
"Aircraft that have applied for the C0 label in 2023 can be used normally in the A1 environment without applying for the C1 label. Therefore, it is not supported to apply for the C1 label again."

No, they can't if their weight exceeds 250g. It is really not difficult to understand what people are asking about.

Exactly.
This message is so imprecise that reading it now I understand it that I am removing the sticker this year and, if necessary, I will be able to apply for C1 in the new year. From what @DJIPaladin writes here, it turns out that the path to C1 will be available only to a group of people who bought a drone this year and do not remove the sticker... but how will these people differ from people who will buy MP4 in the new year? For purchase in 2024 only C0 will remain? Where is the logic here?

rzepa Posted at 12-7 02:49
Exactly.
This message is so imprecise that reading it now I understand it that I am removing the sticker this year and, if necessary, I will be able to apply for C1 in the new year. From what @DJIPaladin writes here, it turns out that the path to C1 will be available only to a group of people who bought a drone this year and do not remove the sticker... but how will these people differ from people who will buy MP4 in the new year? For purchase in 2024 only C0 will remain? Where is the logic here?

If DJI eventually goes the way that I haven't signed for it in 2023, I'd be super disappointed.

When I decided to declassify my drone, it was *clear* by the disclaimer above that I was having the possibility to claim for C1 later in 2024.

Again, please don't tell me I don't *need* to ask for a C1 label. As people explained here, C1 is way different from A3, which is the rule that my drone should follow if DJI once sells the Pro batteries in Europe.

DJI, I beg you to respect your wordings : you said in the C0 removal disclaimer that C1 would be a possibility for me in 2024, I truly await that.

rzepa Posted at 12-7 02:49
Exactly.
This message is so imprecise that reading it now I understand it that I am removing the sticker this year and, if necessary, I will be able to apply for C1 in the new year. From what @DJIPaladin writes here, it turns out that the path to C1 will be available only to a group of people who bought a drone this year and do not remove the sticker... but how will these people differ from people who will buy MP4 in the new year? For purchase in 2024 only C0 will remain? Where is the logic here?

There is also a whole different case that's actually related to what you mention. If I buy a Mini 4 Pro in 2023, wait until 2024 and reclassify it as C1, but then it gets damaged and I use DJI Care to obtain a replacement - it's going to come to me as C0 and I will not be able to switch back to C1, even though technically the replacement should be the same exact product..?

I just don't understand, if the hardware is allegedly C1-compliant with Remote ID and stuff, why can't I just pick and choose which certification is applied? Can someone explain this to me? Is there a legal obstruction to this? I understand that it's a hassle, but hassle should not really be an excuse to service your client who purchases a $1000 machine. I can understand the business side not allowing it for newly purchased 2024 drones (although I still think it's stupid - M4P does not undermine any C1 drones market-wise) - but for drones bought in 2023 at least allow me to change it once to C1 in 2024 regardless of its status at the time and then for replacements let me pick which one I want.

I don't really understand what the difference is between buying it now and in 6 months either if the path to C1 certification technically exists - let's say it's April 1st 2024 and 2 people ask for C1 reclassif, one of them bought their drone in December and one of them bought it in March - the December guy gets it and the March guy doesn't? Ffs where is the logic in all this. If this is all due to the legislation, just please kindly forward the part which this relates to, as I'm having trouble finding anything with all the law speak.

Thank you all for the replies, it's going to get interesting as I watch :].
I'll still be figuring out what will be more advantageous for the A2 category, as it also involves mandatory drone insurance ( i.e. liability insurance).

DJI Paladin (or any other official DJI admin)

If I declassifying my M4P in 2023 will I be able to get class C1 in 2024 ?

There is too much confusion in that, so Can we get clear and legible opinion on this subject?
One word YES or NO is enough.

rzepa Posted at 12-11 13:04
DJI Paladin (or any other official DJI admin)

If I declassifying my M4P in 2023 will I be able to get class C1 in 2024 ?

Hi there. Thank you for reaching out. If you removed the C0 label in 2023, there is no chance to apply for the C0 label anymore, and there will be no 120m altitude limitation afterward (still can fly up to 500m). No mandatory requirement for such a scenario after 2024. There is no related news about supporting to apply for the C1 label at the moment. You may keep an eye on the official notices. Hope this helps.

You can’t apply for a C0 label but a pathway for a C1 label will be made available in the beginning of 2024.

We’re gonna make you stick to your writing in the disclaimer, if you don't, compensation is required (:

DJI Paladin Posted at 12-13 02:21
Hi there. Thank you for reaching out. If you removed the C0 label in 2023, there is no chance to apply for the C0 label anymore, and there will be no 120m altitude limitation afterward (still can fly up to 500m). No mandatory requirement for such a scenario after 2024. There is no related news about supporting to apply for the C1 label at the moment. You may keep an eye on the official notices. Hope this helps.

This is probably the first clear statement from DJI - that is if it can be considered official.

Unfortunately, it again contradicts what is written here in previous posts and in the official article:

1. Once the CO label is removed in this application, there will be no option to reapply for it. Starting from 2024, a compliant pathway for applying for the C1 label will be made available.

As much as I'd like to follow the rules, it's almost impossible to do so in this mess. The 120m limit doesn't bother me, and whether a drone with an extended battery is already in C1 and not C0 is not something I'll concern myself with. From a GRC/ARC perspective, those few grams are negligible.
What may be the problem is the lack of RID & GEO-Awareness (for C1 class operation), I have not seen an answer to that here.

With respect to DJI, I can't make any such irrevocable decision based on their word alone. The aviation regulator in each country is the only reliable source of this information and they could all be subject to different national laws. For me, the biggest attraction of C0 is that it allows me to fly close to and over uninvolved people. In the UK, the CAA is considering extending that privilege to C1 so as to harmonise this rule across A1…but they are still researching it and it may not happen. So, without any certainty, I can't give up my C0 label.

The CAA also intends to mandate RID implementation in all drones which have a camera, regardless of weight/mass - and there is every possibility that the technology to facilitate that is already embedded in our drones. Moreover, it won't be possible to take off unless RID is enabled. For legacy (non-class marked) drones, the current UK legislation allows for indefinite operation in the A1 or A3 sub-categories but the CAA intends to change that by implementing RID from 1/1/2028 - if necessary by forcing operators to attach a Remote ID add-on module to their device.

Sadly, the UK is flexing its new-found independence by declaring that the upcoming new drone regulations will differ from the EASA regs in certain respects, thus making life more complicated for those who want to take their drone to EU countries. Indeed, the CAA intends to ditch the current class letters and replace them with national codes so that C1 becomes UK1, for example. But whatever steps we may take now to delay our fate, using current but soon-to-lapse legislation, it is inevitable that the regulators will have reeled us all in by January 2028 if we are flying a drone with a camera. And those who buy a new camera drone of any weight from January 2026 will find the new regs already baked in with no place to hide. Those new drones will probably not take off without entering both Operator and User IDs first - and Big Brother will be able to see remotely how far beyond VLOS we may stray. The elephant in the room is whether hobby drones will still be sold with a theoretical range which far exceeds any feasible VLOS distance.

The CAA's recent UAS consultation document [Review of UK Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) Regulations] clearly shows the direction of travel and is worth reading:
https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/doc ... inal_2ndedition.pdf

So I just took a chance and went through the declassification process. Quick and easy, the label comes off just fine (and possibly can be re-applied, but I don't want to encourage anyone to cheat).
The only problem was that I had to take the drone photo again because the HEIC format would not upload in the app, the jpeg was already fine.

Next year I will either apply for a C1 tag if possible, or the drone will be C class free, like all older drones.

Jan Spacil Posted at 12-13 23:37
This is probably the first clear statement from DJI - that is if it can be considered official.

Unfortunately, it again contradicts what is written here in previous posts and in the official article:

1. Once the CO label is removed in this application, there will be no option to reapply for it. Starting from 2024, a compliant pathway for applying for the C1 label will be made available.
I understand this text exactly as you do, but perhaps in the future DJI will say that the information "Starting from 2024, a compliant pathway for applying for the C1 label will be made available" is only information that was supposed to apply to drones that have not been declassified in 2023

What a mess indeed

Contradicting to what DJI Paladin writes here on the forum, a colleague on the chat confirmed today that IS possible to declassify now in 2023 and then apply for C1 in 2024. Others who have heard similar stories?


It is NOT possible to declassify in 2023 and then apply for C0 again. Or if you apply for C1, you cannot go back to C0.

DJI should stick to what they said, see what i got some days ago

Now, that makes me wonder which route is best to take for the following 2 requirements
1) I don't want the height limit for mountain use
2) I'd like to use the Plus battery in EU thus exceeding weight

A: declassify in 2023, C1 next year
B: keep C0, upgrade to C1 next year

GeorgeFoxCinematography Posted at 12-28 10:02
DJI should stick to what they said, see what i got some days ago[view_image]

FlyingDutchGuy Posted at 12-28 11:51
Now, that makes me wonder which route is best to take for the following 2 requirements
1) I don't want the height limit for mountain use
2) I'd like to use the Plus battery in EU thus exceeding weight

option A is not possible

I wonder why it will not be possible to regain C0 or get C1 once you remove the classification in 2023 though. Has DJI epxlained why that won't be possible?

BlackDev Posted at 12-28 12:02
I wonder why it will not be possible to regain C0 or get C1 once you remove the classification in 2023 though. Has DJI epxlained why that won't be possible?

Either for legal reasons, even if in the text I did not find what would prevent this transfer of label C, or for marketing / commercial reasons specific to DJI...

LV_Forestry Posted at 12-28 11:58
option A is not possible

See my screenshot from a few posts earlier, where the employee clearly stated that you could declassify now and apply for C1 next year.
I'm confused

LV_Forestry Posted at 12-28 11:58
option A is not possible

According to @DJI Gamora it will be possible. The last part after *.

FlyingDutchGuy Posted at 12-28 13:30
See my screenshot from a few posts earlier, where the employee clearly stated that you could declassify now and apply for C1 next year.
I'm confused

DJI in all its glory!
They manage to make things very complicated.

Flying Fortress Posted at 12-28 13:32
According to @DJI Gamora it will be possible. The last part after *.

I would like to have the opinion of an English native user, but when I translate into my language, even using Google, it is very clear.
-If you remove C0 you are locked to no label at all and it cannot be reversed.

instead (meaning if you don't remove the C0)


-You can request a C1 when it becomes available.

It's the translation of the word "instead" that makes all the difference.

BlackDev Posted at 12-28 12:02
I wonder why it will not be possible to regain C0 or get C1 once you remove the classification in 2023 though. Has DJI epxlained why that won't be possible?

I am guessing here, but that is, how I understand it:
There is NO chance, for old drones, to get certified!

Since the EU drone law has this "before 1.1.24", and "1.1.24 and afterwards", and all drones, bought, activated before, DON´t NEED a classification.
They will be handled
as open  A1 drone if under 250g
and
as open A3, if having more as 250g, needing a license, A1/A3
(And not even the A2 -license is changing a thing, anylonger)

And I am not sure that a Mini 4, with C1 certification, can be flown in C0, if just 249g.
Because it is a C1 certificated drone.

Thus I think (disclaimer: jm2c), as long the bird is under 250g, it is a license free A1 bird, like in C0/A1
And the Mini 4  flown with the bigger batterie , or Air 3 batteries or any accessory, is, without a C1 option,  a "open A3" drone, too.
So the Mini 4, decassified, can still fly as C0, but with the advantage, to fly 120m OVER ground, not just over homepoint!
The important part, for me!
And in case, I wanna use one of the bigger batteries (don`t think so, 25 minutes is good enough, most of the time), I will fly it like my Air 2 or  Spark .

I am more "disturbed", that old drones like Spark, Air, Mavic, have strong limitations from next year on.

For me, a C1 would not be better, as NO C, since I am not planning to fly with  250g(+) with it.
So no sticker it is ;-)

LV_Forestry Posted at 12-28 13:41
I would like to have the opinion of an English native user, but when I translate into my language, even using Google, it is very clear.
-If you remove C0 you are locked to no label at all and it cannot be reversed.

I have to disagree:
You give up on C0, you CAN´T get it back.

INSTEAD, you can get/apply for C1, but NOT again for C0

Jm2c

S-e-ven Posted at 12-28 15:23
I have to disagree:
You give up on C0, you CAN´T get it back.

Your explanation is exactly to my understanding AND what the chat employee wrote: it IS possible to declassify in 2023 and then apply for C1 in 2024.

Tried to verify with another employee as the information on this forum is still contradicting. This employee confirms declassifying in 2023 makes C1 in 2024 possible.

I will do the following: Declassify in 2023. That allows me >120m for mountains and usage of the Plus battery (I have A1/A3 training certificate).
In 2024 I could keep this (and thus fly the M4P as legacy). Using the Plus battery I need to follow A3 rules (legacy >249gr, so far from buildings).
In 2024 I can also choose to go to C1.

S-e-ven Posted at 12-28 15:23
I have to disagree:
You give up on C0, you CAN´T get it back.

Well, sounds like you are right. DJI Paladin published a post where she wrote that there is one chance of getting C1 after removing C0...

S-e-ven Posted at 12-28 15:12
I am guessing here, but that is, how I understand it:
There is NO chance, for old drones, to get certified!

But what makes you sure that things are going to stay that way from 2024 and on?

What makes you sure that EASA wont change its mind like it usually does and say for example that all legacy drones under 250gr in 2024 cannot fly in the open category anymore and instead fly under a specific category (or even an entirely new) set of rules?

This is my main worry with declassification. And i am surprised that so many people go agead and declassify their drones with a naive certainty that because they are under 250grams they are guaranteed to keep flying in A1 indefinitely.

History has proven though that EASA can very easily turn things around completely and if you are declassified you are potentially going to be left with a brick, making it a hassle to even take off from the ground… i think EASA already changed rules for old drones like the Spark, Mavic etc.

Being a legacy drone guarantees you nothing for the future or that their regulations are locked and set in stone forever…

Valkyre4 Posted at 12-29 22:58
But what makes you sure that things are going to stay that way from 2024 and on?

What makes you sure that EASA wont change its mind like it usually does and say for example that all legacy drones under 250gr in 2024 cannot fly in the open category anymore and instead fly under a specific category (or even an entirely new) set of rules?

EASA has no interest in doing this because removing the exemption on legacy drones will only increase the number of illegal flights.  

And then when you talk about changes made in the past, what are you talking about?  this is the first drone law.  They (in reality it is the European Parliament which votes) were on the contrary quite cool in pushing back the initially planned deadline.

LV_Forestry Posted at 12-29 23:44
EASA has no interest in doing this because removing the exemption on legacy drones will only increase the number of illegal flights.  

And then when you talk about changes made in the past, what are you talking about?  this is the first drone law.  They (in reality it is the European Parliament which votes) were on the contrary quite cool in pushing back the initially planned deadline.

But what about the whole remote id thing? I am not arguing. Just making discussion. I am loterally on the fence of declassifying my mini 4 pro but i want just to be sure that i will enjoy flying in A1 for the rest of its life. I dont care about plus sized batteries or C1 certification. Just to make sure that i will be able to fly with no hassles and that no new regulations might ruin my experience like remote id or whatnot.

And i also want to be sure that my drone will be able to fly in A1 all over the world. Nit face an issue with USA for example on travels etc. someone mentioned this here as well, being also a question mark. The way i see it nothing is guaranteed and it feels in large part like a gamble.