Lunado Posted at 1-28 06:22
...and do they trust the pilots not to make changes?.

The original process that EASA put forward required us to return the drone to the manufacturer to be reworked for its classification label,  DJI worked really hard to persuade them to do retrospective certification with the pilots doing the work and then photographing the changes for evidence.   

DAFlys Posted at 1-28 06:34
The original process that EASA put forward required us to return the drone to the manufacturer to be reworked for its classification label,  DJI worked really hard to persuade them to do retrospective certification with the pilots doing the work and then photographing the changes for evidence.

DJI worked so hard that I can't even sell my drone, the prices are at 20% of the original price and no one wants it anyway.
Well, an old drone is an old drone. But...AIRs2 is (will be) OK? So can AIR2.

Lunado Posted at 1-28 08:23
DJI worked so hard that I can't even sell my drone, the prices are at 20% of the original price and no one wants it anyway.
Well, an old drone is an old drone. But...AIRs2 is (will be) OK? So can AIR2.

Air2S is delayed but they are still working on it,  the others were all released before we knew about the EU classification system.

DAFlys Posted at 1-28 08:29
Air2S is delayed but they are still working on it,  the others were all released before we knew about the EU classification system.

So what? That didn't help, my drone is still unusable for what I used it for last year.

Lunado Posted at 1-28 08:43
So what? That didn't help, my drone is still unusable for what I used it for last year.

Right so your beef should be with EASA not DJI.

DAFlys Posted at 1-28 08:29
Air2S is delayed but they are still working on it,  the others were all released before we knew about the EU classification system.

The EU regulations were published well before Air 2 was released.  I think DJI knew the requirements very well.  Air 2 complies with the regulations except for the missing RID.  But even the hardware needed for RID was included (as demonstrated by the US and Japan RID).  The ground speed was also limited to the EU-required 19 m/s.

djiuser_8iMz1QCWexzv Posted at 1-30 03:34
The EU regulations were published well before Air 2 was released.  I think DJI knew the requirements very well.  Air 2 complies with the regulations except for the missing RID.  But even the hardware needed for RID was included (as demonstrated by the US and Japan RID).  The ground speed was also limited to the EU-required 19 m/s.

Im pretty sure the props dont meet the regulations as they dont have the soft tips.

DAFlys Posted at 1-30 04:44
Im pretty sure the props dont meet the regulations as they dont have the soft tips.

Soft tips or not, the propellers are of folding type.  I think this is enough in EU.  The EU regulations are more concerned about impact energy with maximum ground speed against a stationary object on the ground (and in this respect Mavic Air 2 fits well within the limits of C1 class).  The regulations do not even mention laceration.

YRauste Posted at 1-30 07:35
Soft tips or not, the propellers are of folding type.  I think this is enough in EU.  The EU regulations are more concerned about impact energy with maximum ground speed against a stationary object on the ground (and in this respect Mavic Air 2 fits well within the limits of C1 class).  The regulations do not even mention laceration.

You probably haven't read the entire document.  This is clearly stated in the appendix.

YRauste Posted at 1-30 07:35
Soft tips or not, the propellers are of folding type.  I think this is enough in EU.  The EU regulations are more concerned about impact energy with maximum ground speed against a stationary object on the ground (and in this respect Mavic Air 2 fits well within the limits of C1 class).  The regulations do not even mention laceration.

It was clearly stated in the rules.  

DAFlys Posted at 1-30 23:59
It was clearly stated in the rules.

The only requirement I found was: "the UA shall be designed in such a way as to limit any injury that may be inflicted by the propeller blades".  In my book, folding propellers limit the potential injury.

YRauste Posted at 1-31 01:59
The only requirement I found was: "the UA shall be designed in such a way as to limit any injury that may be inflicted by the propeller blades".  In my book, folding propellers limit the potential injury.

Folding blades will cut you just as much as those that dont.  

Hello, new guy here. First of all, sorry for your situations, would be really angry to bought expensive drone and cannot not used them now. But I am from poor EU countryside and Mavics Air 2 are so supercheap now, thinking of buying one. Cant afford one when new. Is for sure that I can still fly that in A3, without RemoteID, soft propellers and so one? Thank you for confirmation.

> ...and do they trust the pilots not to make changes?.

They do not need to trust the pilots.  It is simply a violation of the regulations if the pilot makes changes that affects the compliance of the drone.  This violation may or may not have consequences if the pilot somehow gets exposed to the national aviation authorities.

DAFlys wrote: "Folding blades will cut you just as much as those that dont."

Here I disagree.  The kinetic energy of the other blade(s) of a fixed propeller contribute to the impact energy.  In a folding propeller just the blade that hits the object.

As it has been written in some posts in this and other threads, not all C-marked DJI drones have soft propeller tips.  To me, this issue of soft tips is just an excuse used by DJI not to make the Air 2 usable in EU (in airspace where most of the pilots have used it before - not driving a car for kilometers to reach some agricultural or forestry area satisfying the requirements of A3 airspace).

Air 2 fulfills the requirement "the UA shall be designed in such a way as to limit any injury that may be inflicted by the propeller blades".  It was designed to limit damage by using the technology available to the manufacturer at the time of designing Air 2.  If some other drones have been designed to limit the injury even further, this does not change the fact that Air 2 was designed to limit the injury.  The regulation is very vague regarding what is an acceptable level of injury.

YRauste Posted at 2-3 03:23
DAFlys wrote: "Folding blades will cut you just as much as those that dont."

Here I disagree.  The kinetic energy of the other blade(s) of a fixed propeller contribute to the impact energy.  In a folding propeller just the blade that hits the object.

DJI is just taking advantage of the situation, it is mainly a manufacturer, it needs to sell. DJI doesn't care about our problems, it has no real competition.
There are 23 Air2 for sale in my town now, prices are dropping but no one wants them.
I'm thinking of sending mine to fight at UA, at least it will serve there.
One of my friends organizes various fundraisers for the UA and he thinks it's a good idea to buy these dead drones for us (for a nominal price) and move them to the Ukrainian fighters.

koffr Posted at 2-1 03:15
Hello, new guy here. First of all, sorry for your situations, would be really angry to bought expensive drone and cannot not used them now. But I am from poor EU countryside and Mavics Air 2 are so supercheap now, thinking of buying one. Cant afford one when new. Is for sure that I can still fly that in A3, without RemoteID, soft propellers and so one? Thank you for confirmation.

Hi. Since when is the Czech Republic a poor periphery of the EU? :-D
Yes, everything indicates that category A3 will apply to this drone.
But study what this category is. The Czech Republic has mountains and forests, but if there is a (foreign) person or building within 150 m, you cannot fly. Legally.
You can't fly in your own garden if you have bad neighbors.

If you can certify your own drone design and assign a class, you can contribute to the costs of the certification process - among the owners of this drone - and certify it without the participation of DJI.

fans654e9e89 Posted at 2-4 04:58
If you can certify your own drone design and assign a class, you can contribute to the costs of the certification process - among the owners of this drone - and certify it without the participation of DJI.

I bought a car a few years ago, it wasn't cheap, but it was powerful and equipped with accessories. Just a few days ago, I drove it everywhere, but since the New Year, the manufacturer and the regulator have agreed that from the New Year, I can only drive outside the city and outside the highways.
Apparently, security has changed.
And now I have to pay for the homologation of my car so that the security will apply again. The security, which has changed, can pay again, but someone wants my money again?

Lunado Posted at 2-4 08:02
I bought a car a few years ago, it wasn't cheap, but it was powerful and equipped with accessories. Just a few days ago, I drove it everywhere, but since the New Year, the manufacturer and the regulator have agreed that from the New Year, I can only drive outside the city and outside the highways.
Apparently, security has changed.
And now I have to pay for the homologation of my car so that the security will apply again. The security, which has changed, can pay again, but someone wants my money again?

If there is no other option? Why not?

Hello user fans654e9e89,

Mavic Air 2 is not a certified-category drone.  It is a an open-category drone.  A C-marking in open category requires that the manufacturer declares the conformity of the drone within a certain C class.  The terminology used on this forum is often misleading.  People talk about certification.  Certification is not required for open-category drones.  Open-category drones just require 1) the sticker of the C-class, 2) some documentation in the user manual, and 3) a clear declaration by the manufacturer that the drone is compliant to the requirements to the C-class (also in the user manual).

Unfortunately no outsider can do these things.  Use of Mavic Air 2 in specific category is another story, but that seems to be country by country as far as I understand it.  It would be much better if DJI could make the firmware changes implementing RID in Europe and then declaring Air 2 as a C1 drone.

fans654e9e89 Posted at 2-4 08:16
If there is no other option? Why not?

Sorry, but there are 3 much simpler options:
destroy it (rejected)
donate (considered)
sell (now impossible)
Oooo, now that I've written that
  I see,
that actually only one, Ukraine for sure

YRauste Posted at 2-4 08:38
Hello user fans654e9e89,

Mavic Air 2 is not a certified-category drone.  It is a an open-category drone.  A C-marking in open category requires that the manufacturer declares the conformity of the drone within a certain C class.  The terminology used on this forum is often misleading.  People talk about certification.  Certification is not required for open-category drones.  Open-category drones just require 1) the sticker of the C-class, 2) some documentation in the user manual, and 3) a clear declaration by the manufacturer that the drone is compliant to the requirements to the C-class (also in the user manual).

It has already been decided, Air2s yes, for the "old" Air2 this path will not be.
But expect a post about propellers. Because the world stands on it. Irony On.

YRauste Posted at 2-4 08:38
Open-category drones just require 1) the sticker of the C-class, 2) some documentation in the user manual, and 3) a clear declaration by the manufacturer that the drone is compliant to the requirements to the C-class (also in the user manual).

All you need to do is declare Air 2 as a C1 drone. RID anyone can add any external device. By the way, drones sold before 2024 do not have to have a RID.

fans654e9e89 Posted at 2-4 11:51
All you need to do is declare Air 2 as a C1 drone. RID anyone can add any external device. By the way, drones sold before 2024 do not have to have a RID.

It is interesting. Please give me an exact description of how to legally make DJI Air2 for category C1 (so that it can fly in A1) for the EU.
????

> All you need to do is declare Air 2 as a C1 drone. RID anyone can add any external device. By the way, drones sold before 2024 do not have to have a RID.

Yes, DJI could declare Air 2 as C1 drone (after implementation of RID).  Without RID Air 2 is a legacy drone, so only usable in A3 airspace, which is very limiting for most pilots.

YRauste Posted at 2-5 04:46
> All you need to do is declare Air 2 as a C1 drone. RID anyone can add any external device. By the way, drones sold before 2024 do not have to have a RID.

Yes, DJI could declare Air 2 as C1 drone (after implementation of RID).  Without RID Air 2 is a legacy drone, so only usable in A3 airspace, which is very limiting for most pilots.

They just responded in other, my, thread that when do not plan enabling remoteID for Mavic Air 2 in EU....

DAFlys Posted at 1-28 06:34
The original process that EASA put forward required us to return the drone to the manufacturer to be reworked for its classification label,  DJI worked really hard to persuade them to do retrospective certification with the pilots doing the work and then photographing the changes for evidence.

DAFlys wrote:

> The original process that EASA put forward required us to return the drone to the manufacturer to be reworked for its classification label,  DJI worked really hard to persuade them to do retrospective certification with the pilots doing the work and then photographing the changes for evidence.

This photography evidence sounds strange and unreliable to me.  Did DJI try some more straightforward method, e.g.:
1) The firmware updating software (DJI Fly or DJI assistant 2) verifies that the required update went OK, and then sends an e-mail (or even some crypted message) to DJI stating the serial number of the drone updated.
2) DJI then sends an e-mail to the owner of that drone telling that the owner is eligible for a C1 sticker and asks for a mail address.
3) when the owner responds, DJI sends the sticker in mail thereby authorizing the owner to affix the sticker on behalf of DJI.
The sticker could have the drone type (Mavic Air 2) in small print somewhere inside or outside the specified C1 symbol.  If the owner affixes the sticker to some other drone, it would be obvious to the possible inspector of the national aviation authority.  So the owner is cought of countefaiting drone marking.  In fact, a malign pilot could as well take the C1 design from EASA documents and print it on adhesive material and affix it to any drone (I am not considereing this myself .

YRauste Posted at 2-7 05:35
DAFlys wrote:

> The original process that EASA put forward required us to return the drone to the manufacturer to be reworked for its classification label,  DJI worked really hard to persuade them to do retrospective certification with the pilots doing the work and then photographing the changes for evidence.

You can buy the labels on eBay for some of the drones,   but once you take the photos you get a certificate of conformance that relates to the serial number of the drone you applied for.  

DAFlys Posted at 2-7 05:39
You can buy the labels on eBay for some of the drones,   but once you take the photos you get a certificate of conformance that relates to the serial number of the drone you applied for.

Attaching a C1 sticker does not make Air 2 a valid C1 drone if Air 2 does not broadcast the RID data.  Do know did DJI propose to EASA some streamlined approach as I outlined above ?
One missing element in the approach above is how DJI and the updating programs know that the Air 2 is in Europe.  The "yearly report" (as produced by DJI in January) could be used to find that out.  DJI could also require that the owner includes the European operator ID in connection with the mailing address.  Then DJI could check the operator ID for formal consistency the same way as the DJI Fly app does when asking for an operator ID for the RID system (the last number in the numeric part, I guess).

YRauste Posted at 2-8 01:45
Attaching a C1 sticker does not make Air 2 a valid C1 drone if Air 2 does not broadcast the RID data.  Do know did DJI propose to EASA some streamlined approach as I outlined above ?
One missing element in the approach above is how DJI and the updating programs know that the Air 2 is in Europe.  The "yearly report" (as produced by DJI in January) could be used to find that out.  DJI could also require that the owner includes the European operator ID in connection with the mailing address.  Then DJI could check the operator ID for formal consistency the same way as the DJI Fly app does when asking for an operator ID for the RID system (the last number in the numeric part, I guess).

DJI Already have a working process to request this, Im not sure why anyone would care to change it.    What theyve managed to achieve with EASA is quite remarkable.

Also Air2 is not getting a C1 only Air 2S.

YRauste Posted at 2-8 01:45
Attaching a C1 sticker does not make Air 2 a valid C1 drone if Air 2 does not broadcast the RID data.  Do know did DJI propose to EASA some streamlined approach as I outlined above ?
One missing element in the approach above is how DJI and the updating programs know that the Air 2 is in Europe.  The "yearly report" (as produced by DJI in January) could be used to find that out.  DJI could also require that the owner includes the European operator ID in connection with the mailing address.  Then DJI could check the operator ID for formal consistency the same way as the DJI Fly app does when asking for an operator ID for the RID system (the last number in the numeric part, I guess).

Old Mini drones also do not have RID and are ok for A1.
Air2 has RID for USA and Japan, the fact that it does not get RID for EU is a matter of DJI.
It's not at all amazing what DJI has achieved. For me.

People will buy the C1 sticker from ebay and fly as they want, the probability that they will be checked by the air inspection is like the probability with a meteorite.
All these are only problems for the obedient ones who want to fly 100% legally. Bullying. Those who did not obey the rules will continue to do so.

DAFlys Posted at 2-8 01:59
DJI Already have a working process to request this, Im not sure why anyone would care to change it.    What theyve managed to achieve with EASA is quite remarkable.

Also Air2 is not getting a C1 only Air 2S.

From the DJI point of view (as far as I can see it), the approach outlined above would make things easier (semi automatic compared to inspecting and filing photographic evidence).  I think DJI could even reconsider the C1 mark for Air 2.

YRauste Posted at 2-8 02:49
From the DJI point of view (as far as I can see it), the approach outlined above would make things easier (semi automatic compared to inspecting and filing photographic evidence).  I think DJI could even reconsider the C1 mark for Air 2.

Have you considered its not DJI calling the shots and they are just appeasing what EASA is requiring of them.

DAFlys Posted at 2-9 01:39
Have you considered its not DJI calling the shots and they are just appeasing what EASA is requiring of them.

In the posts above, I tried to describe why it should not be in the interests of EASA to control the C1 sticker with photographic evidence.  The real question is: "Did DJI even propose an approach (like I outlined above) where the whole C1 sticker process begins only when the DJI updating program unequivocally and digitally assures that the required firmware update has been done ?".

DAFlys Posted at 2-9 01:39
Have you considered its not DJI calling the shots and they are just appeasing what EASA is requiring of them.

Have you thought about what you write? Do you live in some alternative world? You are on a thread dedicated to AIR2. This drone has expired in the EU.
However, not in the USA and Japan. Can someone other than DJI be responsible for this? Not.
In my place, DJI AIR2 sales increased from 23 to 41. The sale does not end. Let's move on!

Lunado Posted at 2-10 14:02
Have you thought about what you write? Do you live in some alternative world? You are on a thread dedicated to AIR2. This drone has expired in the EU.
However, not in the USA and Japan. Can someone other than DJI be responsible for this? Not.
In my place, DJI AIR2 sales increased from 23 to 41. The sale does not end. Let's move on!

Yes indeed, the Air2S as been delayed and they have stated they are not getting the classification for the Air2.

I just got this drone the Mavic Air 2 recently just to realise that it's completely useless, unless I'm driving 25 km away from my city to shoot completely nothing

Anyone who is posting bull...s like "It's unlikely Air 2 to be able to get a C classification as it doesnt have the softer propellors required." should be taken to deep dark forrest and hit/cut by silver end proppeler and then by orange one, to feel the "difference". I have both on my Air 2, no difference at all. Plus the props are easilly changable on all drones. So the certified drones would have to be equipped with non-changable props to prevent changing them to the dangerous one with harder ends, which is not. So please stop telling fairytales about props. Its only about software RID update meeting EU standards. As the Air2s is getting this update, is should be a piece of cake to do the same for Air 2 as the dims, weight and flying performance are almost the same.

caniair2 Posted at 3-19 13:08
Anyone who is posting bull...s like "It's unlikely Air 2 to be able to get a C classification as it doesnt have the softer propellors required." should be taken to deep dark forrest and hit/cut by silver end proppeler and then by orange one, to feel the "difference". I have both on my Air 2, no difference at all. Plus the props are easilly changable on all drones. So the certified drones would have to be equipped with non-changable props to prevent changing them to the dangerous one with harder ends, which is not. So please stop telling fairytales about props. Its only about software RID update meeting EU standards. As the Air2s is getting this update, is should be a piece of cake to do the same for Air 2 as the dims, weight and flying performance are almost the same.

Exactly.
Every normal person knows it.
The main problem is that Air2S is still on sale, AIR2 is not.
That's why I will never Mavic Air 2 - EU C class.
We can close it.